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Random TFOs have brought bad content to the surface

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  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,789 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    What's bad about counterpoint? It seems to work just fine on normal and advanced.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,417 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    The problem is not just population distribution. There are other people like me trying to play Elites but we can no longer find each other. The typical Elite players doesn’t queue up for 28+ queues at once so we are all trying to guess and queuing up for different things. Which is causing very little to start. If we could just see the UI number we could queue up together and play.

    The simplest change they can do is to undo the UI number change. That would pretty much solve everything with no negative impact on normal/advanced.

    What is more frustrating is I warned you and others this would happened before the change. It could have been avoided. Instead a massive amount of harm has been done to the Elite community who used the queue system.


    'Participation thru obfuscation' is a bit of a flawed concept. If anything, when a queue takes too long to pop, ppl will assume no one queued at all. And not seeing whether someone queued to begin with, will often result in ppl just not even bothering.

    Remember that former CM who pretty much openly lied on a podcast? (he got fired, the next day, btw, but likely due to him opening like 500 R&D boxes, and getting nothing: a fact I'm sure PWE did not appreciate). Anyway, he boldly claimed all queues were popping for him just fine, when (this was shortly after DR) they sure weren't for everyone else. Tl;dr: that strategy doesn't work either (after all, lying and obfuscating are simply too closely related).

    So, to make my long-winded point: just show the amount of ppl already queued in the UI. Better for everyone.

    actually, he was the token sacrifice meant to end the Delta Rising Riot over the Tau Dewa Skill point fiasco, they were likely just fine w/him lying his TRIBBLE off on a podcast, so long as the hemmoraging would stop before it hit the gaming press at awards time.


    Like I said, I always thought it was the opening of ca. 500 R&D boxes (and getting nothing), and not the overt fibbing, that did him in. I do not think sacrificing a CM over Specgate would have made much sense, as decisions regarding our spec points were way above his pay grade.

    My point just was, to get back on-topic, that lying about the numbers, or hiding those, is not very useful, and ere hinders participation.
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    luckyyahoo wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    I have done both of those since the random queue system came out and other than variance for level scaling, they seem to be what they should be. Keep an eye on the level you are fighting at on the top left corner. If you noticing those difference and the level you are fighting at is within small margins and not crossing any thresholds (which is 20, 30, 40, 45, 50, 60 and 65...there is a big power gap at those levels specifically)...then there maybe an issue. Otherwise, it's just level scaling. Which the queue did not use to have as they set you to the level of the queue instead of having the queue scale to the level of the players.

    It might be a scaling issue, but in that case the scaling isn't working as intended. Difficulty shouldn't vary this wildly. The goal of scaling was that the difficulty was supposed to be similar despite players having different levels. Right now it just makes content too easy or too difficult. With badly designed TFOs, the effect is compounded (which was my original point about bad content)

    That's not to mention that scaling TFOs was a bad idea from the start. It's bound to create mathematical oddities, and I simply don't think cryptic is following up adequately to the effect scaling has on difficulty. Besides, this is not the first game I play that tried to get more players in by making the content accessible to all and it generally makes the game too easy or too difficult. It's a cheap way to try to gain new players and it always fails.
    The big problem with using scaling to make content "accessible" to all is it provides no progression. It makes leveling up an empty number, rather than something to look forward to as a way of overcoming previously difficult challenge or opening opportunities to try new ones.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,774 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    luckyyahoo wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    I have done both of those since the random queue system came out and other than variance for level scaling, they seem to be what they should be. Keep an eye on the level you are fighting at on the top left corner. If you noticing those difference and the level you are fighting at is within small margins and not crossing any thresholds (which is 20, 30, 40, 45, 50, 60 and 65...there is a big power gap at those levels specifically)...then there maybe an issue. Otherwise, it's just level scaling. Which the queue did not use to have as they set you to the level of the queue instead of having the queue scale to the level of the players.

    It might be a scaling issue, but in that case the scaling isn't working as intended. Difficulty shouldn't vary this wildly. The goal of scaling was that the difficulty was supposed to be similar despite players having different levels. Right now it just makes content too easy or too difficult. With badly designed TFOs, the effect is compounded (which was my original point about bad content)

    That's not to mention that scaling TFOs was a bad idea from the start. It's bound to create mathematical oddities, and I simply don't think cryptic is following up adequately to the effect scaling has on difficulty. Besides, this is not the first game I play that tried to get more players in by making the content accessible to all and it generally makes the game too easy or too difficult. It's a cheap way to try to gain new players and it always fails.
    The big problem with using scaling to make content "accessible" to all is it provides no progression. It makes leveling up an empty number, rather than something to look forward to as a way of overcoming previously difficult challenge or opening opportunities to try new ones.
    That's is very true. I have abandon a fair few RPG games due to over use of scaling which removed all sense of progression or accomplishment. Not all scaling is bad, I have no problem being scaled down when I team up with low level friends for low level content. But yeah it can be over used.
  • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    Ok there's a few TFO's that have made the list of abandoning them and taking a leavers penalty rather than struggle through annoying mechanics that frustrate.


    1. Battle of Procyon V repeating the same stage 3 times with more npc's spawning that interrupt the closing of portals. clear a mob and a new mob spawns within secs to disrupt you on stage 3
    2. Gravity Kills Anything Tzenkethi Space is to be avoided due to their ott kinetic dmg
    3. Tzenkethi Front as above although I will have a go and see how competent the team are.
    4. Dranuur Gauntlet No just no on this one.
    5. Herald Sphere poor reward to time ratio why anyone would bother running this TFO when either of the final 2 Kobali missions for the daily marks pays out more ?


    maR4zDV.jpg

    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
  • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    .[...]why anyone would bother running this TFO when either of the final 2 Kobali missions for the daily marks pays out more ?

    Did you know that there are games where you don't get any rewards at all, yet people still play them, just for fun?

    That's how I play STO.

    None of the missions I listed are fun for me. And I do like being rewarded for my time whether that is enjoying the map i.e finally running a Khitomer Ground for the 1st time since pre-delta rising last night or seeing a nice loot drop at the end of the match.

    maR4zDV.jpg

    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
  • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »

    Then THAT is the problem, not some reward structure. If they are not fun, in a game that is supposed to be fun and nothing but fun, then why do them?

    I mean, you could as well just work in your day job then, and earn so much money that you could buy both the C-store and the Lobi store empty.

    Random TFO's i have no control over RNG. None of the TFO's on my list are ones other than when I was doing Lukari Rep and would queue up for Tzenkethi Front Advanced are ones I willingly queue for.

    Tzenkethi Front has been added to the list because of how near overpowered those NPC's feel with there kinetic off the charts dmg and near immunity when close together. Tzenkethi and maybe Terrans are the only NPC's that after the balance are genuinely unpleasant to fight. Funny how both use Kinetic dmg as their primary attack. Even at its height pre-season 13 I don't think player Feedback Pulse or Tractor Beam repulsors could match how broken those to NPC's are at present.

    maR4zDV.jpg

    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    .[...]why anyone would bother running this TFO when either of the final 2 Kobali missions for the daily marks pays out more ?

    Did you know that there are games where you don't get any rewards at all, yet people still play them, just for fun?

    That's how I play STO.

    None of the missions I listed are fun for me. [...]

    Then THAT is the problem, not some reward structure. If they are not fun, in a game that is supposed to be fun and nothing but fun, then why do them?
    Rewards and the earning of them are the fun. For me anyway.
    I mean, you could as well just work in your day job then, and earn so much money that you could buy both the C-store and the Lobi store empty.
    And then what? Quit the game there's nothing more left to do?
  • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »

    Then don't play random?


    So I should abandon levelling up the reputation system as certain marks are near impossible to get as queues don't pop. Competitive marks come to mind or should i instead of logging in everyday and simply hating 5 out of the dozens of TFO's limit myself to logging on when there's a RA weekend and only play that content ?.


    Nothing wrong with disliking certain content and nothing wrong with refusing to play it. Its called choice. But because the best way to obtain marks is via the random queue system because certain queues are not active it kinda ushers you into using it.

    Also other than a handful of ships again by choice as A. i don't like the designs. B. The stats aren't what i'm after or C. The starship trait isn't useful i own 95% of the ships in the C-Store.
    maR4zDV.jpg

    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
  • bendalekbendalek Member Posts: 1,781 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    .[...]why anyone would bother running this TFO when either of the final 2 Kobali missions for the daily marks pays out more ?

    Did you know that there are games where you don't get any rewards at all, yet people still play them, just for fun?

    That's how I play STO.

    None of the missions I listed are fun for me. [...]

    Then THAT is the problem, not some reward structure. If they are not fun, in a game that is supposed to be fun and nothing but fun, then why do them?

    I mean, you could as well just work in your day job then, and earn so much money that you could buy both the C-store and the Lobi store empty.

    Please just stop ... The fanboism is getting out of hand.

    This is a game, and games are supposed be designed to be fun, while keeping you playing them! The whole point of the Rep system is to keep you coming back each day after you have finished all the "episodic" content.

    If the "end game" content isn't fun, then you're doing it wrong, and this thread proves without any doubt whatsoever, that Cryptic is doing it wrong. Making weak and lame excuses for a developer that clearly has disjointed priorities and/or no clear direction or management, and posting derogatory remarks about people making VALID points won't help the game. Neither will essentially repeating "I don't see a problem, so there musn't be one" as a reply to EVERY issue.
    Oh, hoho hohhhhh, Oh,, hoho, hohhhhh
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  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,379 Community Moderator
    Guys, I'm only going to say this once, keep it civil or this thread will get locked. Also lets get the discussion back to specific TFOs and specific issues that the thread was originally started about. I'm giving you guys a chance to keep the discussion in here going if it can be kept civil and on point. Don't make me regret it.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    sophlogimo wrote: »

    Then don't play random?


    So I should abandon levelling up the reputation system as certain marks are near impossible to get as queues don't pop.

    The WHOLE F'ING POINT OF THE RTFO SYSTEM IS SO THAT THEY WILL, IN FACT, POP!





    I think we are done here. Not going to waste anymore of my time with you
    maR4zDV.jpg

    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,379 Community Moderator
    and we're done here /closed
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
This discussion has been closed.