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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    most people who play the KDF would agree the Bort was a setup for faliure to begin with. that ship flies so poorly and is so far from the normal KDF play style it was doomed to begin with.
    This is hilarious, because your post assumes that BoP/raider style combat is actually why the majority of KDF players do.
    what I would like to see is a poll, not here on the forum, but in the game it'self. a one question poll before you log in.. what ship did you buy the escort pack for? 1. did not buy the pack, 2. the Defiant 3 the Kor 4 the T'varo.
    I'm betting that although the resposes for the defiant will be more, that when you take into acount the fed players vs KDF, the Kor ws the deciding factor by a large margin.
    Cross-faction packs get bought by people like me who play more than one faction. Anyone who only plays KDF or Fed won't bother.
    This is reflected in the Klingon's willingness to use tactics that would be seen as dishonorable by western standards, such as the use of cloaking devices to annihilate enemies before they are even aware of you, and how Martok and Kurn did things like trigger solar flares to destroy ships and shipyards. Klingons, at least in the TNG/DS9 era, do seem to draw the line at simply annihilating planets outright, or killing civilians en mass. They generally stick to military targets, and those who can actually fight back.
    I personally tend to think samurai honor was TRIBBLE. I annoyed one of my friends IRL once by suggesting that it was created as a way for feudal lords to maintain control of their armies.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    starswordc wrote: »
    Kagran is manifestly a moron and didn't even come close to exploring all his options. For example: if you obey the Temporal Prime Directive and just leave, Team Jerkass wipes out the Iconians in the past like they were supposed to in the timeline that must have existed before you started tampering with it, and the entire war never happens in the first place. (Of course that also means the events of the 2009 movie don't happen and the Romulan Star Empire is still around, but I can live with that.)
    No, that is precisely what must not have happened, in any timeline. The iconian attack is our reason for going back in time, therefore the attack must have already occurred in whatever timeline existed before the time travel or we would never have done it. Either some iconians survived anyway, or Team Jerkass succeeded in stealing their technology and they were the original aggressors we went to stop the first time.

    Similarly, there was never any chance of actually preventing the attack with time travel because of the Grandfather Paradox. Without an attack we would never have gone back in time in the first place.

    As such, I imagined my character went into the past to save the iconians on purpose, to enable us to stop them in the present. That we had saved the iconians in the past, and would save the iconians again, was foretold by the Prophets in the Delta Recruit storyline.

    Would've been smarter to leave Sela behind, though. Maybe saved Romulus in the process. But a stable time loop is a stable time loop.

    So your argument is "you can't fight fate". Does that really sound like Star Trek, that all our actions are predestined and there's no way to turn aside from an action? Does that sound like this?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2U4pssEqHY

    The future is not set in stone, and should not be, because such a world is pointless. The scenario only became a grandfather paradox because the characters were too cerebrally challenged to think of other options. Consider how time travel usually worked in canon, you know, back before Cryptic became obsessed with predestination paradoxes. Go all the way back to "The City on the Edge of Forever": changing the past and returning to the present just overwrites the existing timeline; only the time traveler retains their memory of the old version. Edith Keeler doesn't die in a car accident, Kirk returns to a 2260s where the Federation was never founded. The same thing happens in "Yesterday's Enterprise" (nobody except the Enterprise-C time-traveled, therefore nobody except Guinan, who seems to have some connection to Q, remembers the old timeline), "Past Tense" (the only reason the Defiant crew notices is because they're partially stuck in the time travel, too: they've got chronitons all over their hull like barnacles), and Star Trek: First Contact (getting caught in the sphere's jetwash is all that keeps the Enterprise crew from being erased from existence entirely).

    And here's the real kicker: "Time and Again" from Voyager. (Yes, Voyager: my least favorite series saves the day.) Janeway discovers she's in a predestination paradox, and exercises free will to break the time loop, preventing the very event that brought her back in time in the first place and saving an entire civilization.

    So, because we have free will, we are able to take actions to break the cycle. Change the past back to the unpolluted timeline, in legal accordance with the Temporal Prime Directive, by letting the Iconians all die like they were supposed to, and they're never around to return from Andromeda and start frakking with the Undine. Therefore the Klingon-Gorn War never happens (or at least under the same circumstances), therefore the Federation-Klingon alliance probably stays intact (with the caveat that J'mpok might still overthrow Martok and break the alliance because he's a warmongering prick). And because of the completely unrelated civil unrest in Romulan space (it started with Shinzon, remember, not Hakeev), there's still a halfway decent chance for the Republic to form. And over in the Delta Quadrant, the Vaadwaur never invade anyone because they never got Iconian technical upgrades to overcome the regional powers, nor bluegills to force the rest to go along with Gaul's ambitions. Doesn't affect the Dominion, either. The Borg are still bound for extinction, though, because they suck. :tongue:

    As for us the protagonists, because we are not cerebrally challenged, we dispose of the Annorax we brought back with us in a black hole somewhere to keep anyone else from using it, and then we get to live out our lives in a much nicer and quieter galaxy than the one we left.

    TL;DR: I fully and utterly reject any notion of predestination or fate, whether that comes from you, Cryptic, or John Calvin, because it means there's no meaning in any choice I or anyone else ever make.
    starswordc wrote: »
    snip
    Can you go one post without massively straw manning someone?
    I just did. I've noticed you like to use that word, "strawman", without seeming to understand what fallacy you're actually accusing people of. It's not "argument I don't like", it's "argument based on a misrepresentation of the opponent's position".

    So really, you're the one repeatedly strawmanning me, as we will see in subsequent sections.
    starswordc wrote: »
    If you're looking to Fallout for scientific accuracy you're in the wrong place
    I never said **** about Fallout being scientifically accurate. I never even brought up scientific accuracy in the first place. Who cares about scientific accuracy in a fictional universe to begin with? Your entire point is arguing from a nonexistent basis of realism that Trek never bothered to even try to stick to.
    Well, seeing as how what's said by the characters doesn't match what's shown, I'm going to go with interpretation of indisputable facts rather than erroneous opinion. The description on-scene when everyone's scrambling to react does not match the evidence, so that's not what happened. Presumably cooler heads proofread everyone's notes later.
    starswordc wrote: »
    The fact you think I've ever advocated those really only shows you don't own a dictionary and like to rely on emotional gut reactions to choice of weapon over uncomfortable realities.
    You have constantly advocated the use of things like genesis weapons, and star destroyers, to defeat the Iconians in all the conversations about the subject, all of which would be mass murder, war crimes, and genocide.
    • Dictionary definition of "murder": unjustified taking of a sapient life. Subheading "mass murder": unjustified taking of many sapient lives.

      In the Iconian War, our galaxy and nations are being invaded and are under threat of subjugation and/or destruction. Use of lethal force against the Iconians is justified because it is self-defense by available means proportional to the threat, therefore it is not murder.
    • Definition 1 of war crimes: actions agreed-upon by international convention to be illegal in war. Definition 2, "things you accuse your enemy of, but deny that your own forces are also doing".

      There is no international convention to which the Iconians adhere, and enforcement of them is basically impossible unless you destroy the enemy polity and bring the people in charge to trial. In other words, what is and isn't a war crime is from the point of view of the victor: the Soviets once tried a Luftwaffe flying ace for war crimes, in part, for air-to-air kills against the Soviet Air Force. (That's not a joke or exaggeration, they really did that.)

      Sound cynical to you? You're right, it is.
    • Definition of "genocide": intentional action to destroy a people (usually defined as an ethnic, national, racial, or religious group) in whole or in part.

      Well, if you take that literally, yeah, maybe. Here's the thing: intent and motivation matters. So, blowing up Hobus to try to wipe out the Romulans? That's genocide, no question: it's motivated by hatred for a people, as all historical genocides ultimately were (going right back to the Romans depopulating most of modern-day Spain because the Lusitanians sided with Carthage). Killing the Past!Iconians ourselves? Genocide, because they're no threat to us. Blowing up the Herald Sphere to stop the invasion in the present? That's proportional use of force against a legitimate military target in self-defense: the protagonists are under imminent threat of annihilation of their society by an enemy they did not provoke and lack the resources (manpower, ships, munitions, fuel, etc.) to fight by conventional means, and surrender to such people is morally and ethically unacceptable when there is any feasible alternative. And hell, it might not even get all the Iconians if they gate out in time, but you can bet it would give them pause. The trope you're looking for is the Godzilla Threshold.

    Ball is in your court.
    starswordc wrote: »
    (Don't give me that ridiculous argument about how "it's just humans that work that way"
    It literally is only humans who work that way though. You can not like that, but it is.
    Wrong. That's not a fact. In context it's not even a formal theory. It's guesswork by a single former engineering officer -- not a biologist or neuroscientist, underline, a warp engine technician -- who isn't even formally studying the subject, just trying to react to it. And the hypothesis fails to match the evidence given in canon, as I explained in the part you conveniently left out of your quotation. That's the scientific method in action, baby.

    Speaking of quotations, notice how I keep quoting the entirety of each statement of yours, and you keep cherry-picking bits and pieces of mine because you apparently think you can attack them easier that way? Those are strawman arguments on your part.
    starswordc wrote: »
    Strike four is repeatedly deceiving the allies who dropped everything to come help them.
    Except we didn't do that either. the Alliance sent one ship, Kim's, to help the Kobali. He didn't drop anything to help them, he was assigned to help them from the get go.
    Now, this is a classical strawman argument, everybody paying attention? (Bueller?) You misrepresented my statement as literal truth instead of a mildly hyperbolic generality so you could attack it more easily.

    Here is the argument again as argued: The Alliance had no obligation to assist the Kobali (e.g. obligations including, but not limited to, a mutual defense pact), but we came anyway and did the lion's share of the work booting the Vaads off Kobali Prime. And they repaid us by lying to us repeatedly in ways that made it more difficult and riskier for us to do our jobs, which equates to unnecessary casualties suffered by Allied forces. That blood is on the Kobalis' hands, not the Vaads'.
    starswordc wrote: »
    Strike five is that they contribute nothing to the Alliance war effort that doesn't come from Alliance resource expenditure (other than warm bodies, which we can get plenty of from much less awful people).
    Except the whole point of Delta rising was that the Vaadwaur had annihilated basically all the major powers in the Delta quadrant, and the races we picked up to form the Delta Alliance were the only ones willing to stand up to them.
    This is another strawman.

    Here is the argument again as argued: The other combatant societies* in the Delta Alliance needed no technical assistance from us to be able to fight: the Benthans, Octanti, Borg Cooperative, Turei, Hazari, and Hierarchy all provided their own ships; all we had to do was talk them into it. Even the friggin' Kazon did that, though it didn't amount to much.

    Whereas the Kobali? Their indigenous designs were, incredibly, worse than the Kazons', canonically no threat whatsoever to a single, unsupported Starfleet science ship forty years ago. Their only modern warship, the Samsar, was, per STO, built with Alpha Quadrant assistance. And in ground combat? They can't even dislodge at most a few thousand Vaadwaur ground troops despite having a defensible base of operations, interior lines of supply, an intact population, and an entire frakking planet's resources to draw on.

    In contrast, back in the Alpha Quadrant, the Bajorans performed far better with much less against a far more formidable opponent: the Cardassians had the resource base of a major star nation to throw at the Occupation and had uncontested control of the space surrounding the planet (i.e. the tactical freedom to use orbital bombardment without interference from enemy ships), not the few hundred thousand** cryotube survivors the Vaadwaur were forced to work with. And thanks to hand-wringing over the Prime Directive, the Bajorans did it without any help from the Federation at all!

    Hence, "net drain on Alliance resources". QED.

    * I.e. I'm discounting the Talaxians because they weren't involved in the fighting (except for the one instance where Gaul involved them).
    ** Soldiers don't grow on trees, nor, in-story, do they have respawn points. Recall that less than six hundred individuals escaped Vaad Prime in "The Dragon's Teeth", and generously extrapolate how many they likely recovered from other vaults. That's probably a significant overestimate, actually.
    starswordc wrote: »
    One scientist thought it was a bad idea. As noted, Federation scientists, supposedly the best in the galaxy, thought that protomatter was impossible to use safely, but the Lukari do exactly that all the time.
    A. It was actually many scientists, Nelen Exil points out that many of his fellows disagreed with the Voth's plans, and were taken away for it.
    And because they disagreed with their political superiors, that automatically means they're right? Maybe if they kept working on it instead of rage-quitting they might make a breakthrough. Like the Lukari did:
    B. The Federation didn't think protomatter was impossible to handle safely, just that, like the omega molecule, doing so wasn't worth the risk if something went wrong.
    My point exactly: they thought it was too dangerous to use and therefore stopped all research, only to look like fools when the Lukari showed them up.
    starswordc wrote: »
    So you concede the point: the Klingons would have been willing to wipe out the Iconians altogether if the cost-to-benefit ratio had been more favorable.
    No, because the Klingons consider such acts to be dishonorable.
    "In war, there is nothing more honorable than victory."
    -- Lieutenant Commander Worf, son of Mogh, "The Way of the Warrior"

    Once again, you conflate your Western-raised human definition of honor, e.g. "fair play", with the Klingon definition, e.g. "fight and win for your Empire, your House, and what you believe in, by whatever means necessary".
    starswordc wrote: »
    Kagran is manifestly a moron and didn't even come close to exploring all his options. For example: if you obey the Temporal Prime Directive and just leave, Team Jerkass wipes out the Iconians in the past like they were supposed to in the timeline that must have existed before you started tampering with it, and the entire war never happens in the first place. (Of course that also means the events of the 2009 movie don't happen and the Romulan Star Empire is still around, but I can live with that.)
    The entire point of the bootstrap paradox is that it has no beginning or end. There was never a timeline in which you didn't go back in time to save the Iconians.
    See response to @warpangel above.
    starswordc wrote: »
    Wiping out the Iconians in the past is immoral because the Iconians of the past didn't attack anybody. And being attacked in the past is not why they became "naturally ****". Billions of people have s***ty lives that are the result of the actions of entitled pricks like -200,000 BC's Team Jerkass, and most of them don't become mass murderers over it: they just try to live the best they can. Nobody made the Iconians retaliate against trillions of innocents 200,000 years removed from the original offense, they chose to do that on their own. (There's that "mass murder", "war crimes", and "genocide" you were looking for, by the way.)
    You really haven't played the game have you? The whole reason why the Iconians attacked anyone was because Sela made them lose the World Heart which contained all their history, knowledge, culture, etc. etc. Its even specifically pointed out that the Iconians current technology is the exact same as it was 200,000 years ago, and that they have no ability to make new things. The Iconians DID plan on just going somewhere else to rebuild, and leave everyone else alone, but they lost the means to do so when they lost the world heart. They effectively became squatters in their own civilization.

    And that's why, once the World Heart is returned to them, they are perfectly fine with going back to Iconia and leaving everyone alone.
    You're missing the point. After losing the MacGuffin, the Iconians could have chosen to go to some uninhabited Class M planet somewhere and built regular houses out of, say, wood, and tried to make new lives, just like most people who lost their homes and entire livelihoods in the 2007 Depression hunkered down and tried to survive afterward. But instead they chose to stew in their own juices for 200,000 years and then murdered billions who had nothing to do with them losing their homeworld because their civilizations didn't even exist yet when it happened. Which is rather like our hypothetical homeowner losing his livelihood and house so some entitled prick on Wall Street could pad his billions, and responding by taking an assault rifle to the neighborhood school. Believe you me, it's a special kind of raving psychotic who would draw any connection between the two in the first place, let alone actually act on it.

    Or, here's a thought, the Iconians could have chosen to retaliate against Sela personally instead of the entire Romulan species. Still bad -- Sela hadn't done anything to them yet -- but peanuts compared to what they actually did. And she's such a waste of air the Romulans may have even thanked them for it.

    It's your choices that make you who you are, not your heritage or whatever psychobabble you believe to be your destiny. The Iconians are the worst monsters in galactic history, people who make the Female Founder look like Mother Teresa, because they chose to do these things, not because "fate made them do it" or because "they're so pitiful and put-upon" or because they "lost their MacGuffin".
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    How does your theory account for this episode?
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    starswordc wrote: »
    Kagran is manifestly a moron and didn't even come close to exploring all his options. For example: if you obey the Temporal Prime Directive and just leave, Team Jerkass wipes out the Iconians in the past like they were supposed to in the timeline that must have existed before you started tampering with it, and the entire war never happens in the first place. (Of course that also means the events of the 2009 movie don't happen and the Romulan Star Empire is still around, but I can live with that.)
    No, that is precisely what must not have happened, in any timeline. The iconian attack is our reason for going back in time, therefore the attack must have already occurred in whatever timeline existed before the time travel or we would never have done it. Either some iconians survived anyway, or Team Jerkass succeeded in stealing their technology and they were the original aggressors we went to stop the first time.

    Similarly, there was never any chance of actually preventing the attack with time travel because of the Grandfather Paradox. Without an attack we would never have gone back in time in the first place.

    As such, I imagined my character went into the past to save the iconians on purpose, to enable us to stop them in the present. That we had saved the iconians in the past, and would save the iconians again, was foretold by the Prophets in the Delta Recruit storyline.

    Would've been smarter to leave Sela behind, though. Maybe saved Romulus in the process. But a stable time loop is a stable time loop.

    So your argument is "you can't fight fate". Does that really sound like Star Trek, that all our actions are predestined and there's no way to turn aside from an action? Does that sound like this?
    It is possible to change history in Star Trek. It's been done. STO itself has a long story arc about preventing irresponsible people from doing it willy-nilly.

    However, if the change you attempt would prevent you from traveling in time in the first place, it's logically impossible to succeed in it. As in the classic example of going back to kill your grandfather, which would mean you were never born and thus couldn't possibly have gone back in time to do anything.

    Without the iconians, none of the game's early storyline would've happened. We wouldn't have found dyson spheres that lead us into the delta quadrant (because they wouldn't even exist), we wouldn't have met the krenim, nobody would have even heard of the Annorax much less built it. Stopping the iconian attack with time travel is impossible, because without the iconian attack we would have neither the means nor the motivation to perform that time travel.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    brian334 wrote: »
    How does your theory account for this episode?
    None of the timelines actually changed in that, except maybe the one where the Borg overran the Federation. That Enterprise got blown up in the wrong universe, but it still got blown up.

    It's like in Doctor Who where the Doctor talks about how tiny changes in time pretty much don't matter.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    Heinlein postulated that any time travel created a new universe because the past was unalterable. Niven took the idea and created Svetz.
  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,843 Arc User
    so they adopted Japan, and made the Klingon Warrior much more like the Samurai, and thier code of Honor.. Bushido.
    To be fair though, the idea of "Samurai honor" has been so warped by idealism of the east, and constant insertions of western chivalric knight honor, that most people have no idea what Samurai honor was like. Samurai were pretty much willing to do basically anything short of just mass slaughtering innocents(and even then sometimes they would) because victory in service of your lord was seen as the highest honor one could achieve, and loss, no matter the reason, was the greatest dishonor one could have.

    This is reflected in the Klingon's willingness to use tactics that would be seen as dishonorable by western standards, such as the use of cloaking devices to annihilate enemies before they are even aware of you, and how Martok and Kurn did things like trigger solar flares to destroy ships and shipyards. Klingons, at least in the TNG/DS9 era, do seem to draw the line at simply annihilating planets outright, or killing civilians en mass. They generally stick to military targets, and those who can actually fight back.

    agreed, but my original statement is still correct. TNG was not created or written with japanese culture in mind as far as appeal. it was written for the west, including the flaws you mentioned. who knows? with the new Picard series they might portray the kilingons as Mexicans, or, god forbid.. CANADIANS.
    Spock.jpg

  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,843 Arc User
    I didn't invent anything.

    Annorax notes in Year of Hell that every single change hes made to the timeline has been met with resistance as if time itself was fighting back against him, and Spock notes in the novelization, and comic book adaption, of the 2009 Trek movie(using a cut scene from the movie for reference) that the effectively impossible coincidence of all of the Enterprise crew meeting up, despite the changes to the timeline, was only possible if time itself was attempting to repair the damage caused by Nero's incursion.

    This itself is supposed by effectively all instances of time travel in Trek, where either
    A. No change occurs due to the time travel.
    B. Any change made gets corrected(Gabriel Bell gets killed and Sisko takes his place, Nero goes back in time and tries to change history only for the Enterprise crew to come together anyways)
    C. Going back in time is part of some predestination paradox(such as the Star Trek 2/4 glasses paradox), meaning they couldn't NOT go back in time as the action was pre-determined to being with.

    This is not only true of the Trek shows and movies, but of STO as well. For example, our attempts to save Romulus from the Iconians only result in it being assimilated by the Borg, with Tiaru Jarok mentioning that maybe Romulus can't be saved. Not to mention the whole Sela/Iconian, Sphere Builder/Federation, and Tholian/Na'Kuhl, bootstrap paradoxes as well.

    Star Trek has been pretty consistent in the fact that time can't REALLY be changed. This is mostly due to the fact that its a fictional universe, and the writers didn't want to create new timelines from all the time travel BS they use, but its an established reality of Star Trek. Time doesn't really change, and really can't be changed. Daniels even notes to Archer that the end of the Temporal Cold War reset the changes caused by it. Even in a time war, time manages to correct itself in the end.

    And since, as I mentioned in my last post, Enterprise is part of the Kelvin timeline, that means that, despite all the "changes" to the TOS era, the future ends up exactly the same.

    however, despite most of Star Trek's ponderings of time travel, even spock mentioning time is like a river, having currents and eddies, and certain people and events are immutable, it is not based on any kind of science or theory. indeed, the random changing of time and universes is far more likely. Instead of eating lunch at burger king today, say I had bought lottery tickets and i had won tonights 1.6 billion lottery? maybe YOUR universe would not change but mine certainly would.each event HAS to have an impact on the future, which is why the concept of the Mirror Universe is so far fetched. indeed the multiverse theory has been very popular outside of Star Trek for a LOT longer
    Spock.jpg

  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    with the new Picard series they might portray the kilingons as Mexicans
    Sneaking over the border with their cloaking devices to "steal our jobs?" :D
  • raahzielraahziel Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    As much as I do like the Fed and all of the lore and crazy tech and everything else, I also really like some of the Aliens. Klingons and the KDF is an obvious one. True sneaky backstabbing Romulans is another (sorry nice Roms your cool and all but not the Roms I think of traditionally). Pretty much any of the Alien races has enough cool stuff and interesting lore that a season could be made out of it.
    Honestly just going back over the seasons and missions we already have in game - give them small bug fixes, polish the gameplay and perhaps spice up the story with some voice acting and a bit more action and there you go!

    So yes if we can get more KDF love that would be a huge start. Anything after that is a bonus.

    Edit 1 - And Borg! OMG BORG and more Undine!

    Edit 2 - I think back to really OLD games like Klingon Honor Guard the old FPS game from the late 90`s early 2000`s, things felt so RICH with Klingon Atmosphere, that feeling would be great to have again in this game.
  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    with the new Picard series they might portray the kilingons as Mexicans
    Sneaking over the border with their cloaking devices to "steal our jobs?" :D

    South Park already did that episode. Those damned dirty timers!
  • captainwellscaptainwells Member Posts: 718 Arc User
    I genuinely wish that Cryptic would do a recruitment event focusing on the Klingons or Romulans, I mean we've had multiple ones for the Federation (and that is fine), but is it really unimportant to do one of these events (or even a rerun of one that came before but featuring new content from a Klingon or Romulan perspective)?
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    I genuinely wish that Cryptic would do a recruitment event focusing on the Klingons or Romulans, I mean we've had multiple ones for the Federation (and that is fine), but is it really unimportant to do one of these events (or even a rerun of one that came before but featuring new content from a Klingon or Romulan perspective)?
    There's been three recruit events, only one of which was actually Fed focused.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,843 Arc User
    Cryptic has stated the reason why they haven't done Klingon or Romulan content for the earlier eras of Trek is that there isn't enough lore for them to work with.
    there is plenty of lore if they would pick up a novel to three.. and before anyone says "It's not canon!" there ar is already non-canon-directly from the novels content in game.
    Spock.jpg

  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    I genuinely wish that Cryptic would do a recruitment event focusing on the Klingons or Romulans, I mean we've had multiple ones for the Federation (and that is fine), but is it really unimportant to do one of these events (or even a rerun of one that came before but featuring new content from a Klingon or Romulan perspective)?
    Cryptic has stated the reason why they haven't done Klingon or Romulan content for the earlier eras of Trek is that there isn't enough lore for them to work with.
    Not as true for Disco as it is for TOS. :p At least in the case of Klingons.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    Do you really want them to bring Romulans into it? Imagine: bat-looking Vulcans with spiked collars and chaps, or whatevr the Disco crew would make Romulans into!

    (Plus the whole thing about Romulans staying on their side of the Neutral Zone from Archer's war until Balance of Terror, but hey, it's only TOS, so it's not canon.)
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    brian334 wrote: »
    Do you really want them to bring Romulans into it? Imagine: bat-looking Vulcans with spiked collars and chaps, or whatevr the Disco crew would make Romulans into!

    (Plus the whole thing about Romulans staying on their side of the Neutral Zone from Archer's war until Balance of Terror, but hey, it's only TOS, so it's not canon.)
    >Humans, Vulcans, Andorians, Tellarites, and Orions look the same as they did in previous shows
    >Its literally only the Klingons that look different
    >All of the Klingons difference were mandated by Bryan Fuller
    >Hes gone, and they are undoing as much of it as they can for season 2
    >Trying to imply that the Romulans would look different.
    At least try,
    And TRILL! We have actually seen Trill in Disco… on Qo'nos!
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
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