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STO: Age of Discovery - Excited YEAH/NAY

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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,540 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    Now I understand why CBS put the quietus on Star Trek fan films. Most fan films, regardless of quality, actually try to honor the spirit of the prime universe Star Trek saga... And I guess CBS just cannot have that...

    Tell that to Star Trek Continues. They got reported to YouTube for copyright infringement by a third party and taken down, and CBS told YouTube to put the show back up and let them keep on making episodes.

    The kibosh on fan films came solely as a result of one particular team abusing CBS's largesse. You want to get mad at somebody, get mad at Alec Peters.

    Well, thanks for bringing this up. I had given up on Continues and thought it was done after the CBS fiat in the later half of 2016. Didn't realize they had more Episodes afterwards. I saw five 'new' Episodes last night and today. The finale was great.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
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    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
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  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 4,515 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    And then there's Burnham. Now she's suddenly the hero? She committed outright mutiny. And even if you can bring yourself to overlook the latter, she personally STARTED the whole war to begin with, cuz she was thinking... why, she wasn't really thinking, was she?!

    Runs in the family. In TOS The Menagerie Spock illegally commandeered the Enterprise and 100% violated Star Fleet General Order 7 (violation of which carried the death penalty) - yet next week, he was back in Starfleet's and Kirk's good graces. ;)

    But it did not endanger anyone, just Spock himself...and was done for the well being of his former captain, who was in a miserable state. Also, the Talosians had a hand in this, it was revealed, and Starfleet realized this and was fine with it. And considering what Pike probably did over his career, starfleet can be flexible.

    Burnham started an all out war,

    Also, I did find that rule odd, I feel sorry for anyone who might crash there.
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,033 Arc User
    #T'kuvmaShotFirst​​
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,540 Arc User
    That order made no sense. If they were afraid that if you went there you would learn the Talosian power of illusion. If you had not, there was no danger. If you had, you could illusion your way out of anyone even knowing you went there. ;)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
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    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    dilithium is not fictional; it may not be a crystalline substance, but it isn't fictional​​

    Dilithium in a ST context is a fictional element.
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    And then there's Burnham. Now she's suddenly the hero? She committed outright mutiny. And even if you can bring yourself to overlook the latter, she personally STARTED the whole war to begin with, cuz she was thinking... why, she wasn't really thinking, was she?!

    Runs in the family. In TOS The Menagerie Spock illegally commandeered the Enterprise and 100% violated Star Fleet General Order 7 (violation of which carried the death penalty) - yet next week, he was back in Starfleet's and Kirk's good graces. ;)

    But it did not endanger anyone, just Spock himself...and was done for the well being of his former captain, who was in a miserable state. Also, the Talosians had a hand in this, it was revealed, and Starfleet realized this and was fine with it. And considering what Pike probably did over his career, starfleet can be flexible.

    Burnham started an all out war,

    Also, I did find that rule odd, I feel sorry for anyone who might crash there.

    People are so dense.

    T'Kuvma started the war. Not Burnham.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,952 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    And then there's Burnham. Now she's suddenly the hero? She committed outright mutiny. And even if you can bring yourself to overlook the latter, she personally STARTED the whole war to begin with, cuz she was thinking... why, she wasn't really thinking, was she?!

    Runs in the family. In TOS The Menagerie Spock illegally commandeered the Enterprise and 100% violated Star Fleet General Order 7 (violation of which carried the death penalty) - yet next week, he was back in Starfleet's and Kirk's good graces. ;)

    But it did not endanger anyone, just Spock himself...and was done for the well being of his former captain, who was in a miserable state. Also, the Talosians had a hand in this, it was revealed, and Starfleet realized this and was fine with it. And considering what Pike probably did over his career, starfleet can be flexible.

    Burnham started an all out war,

    Also, I did find that rule odd, I feel sorry for anyone who might crash there.

    People are so dense.

    T'Kuvma started the war. Not Burnham.

    In fairness, Burnham got misblamed for starting the war in-universe, too.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,962 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    And then there's Burnham. Now she's suddenly the hero? She committed outright mutiny. And even if you can bring yourself to overlook the latter, she personally STARTED the whole war to begin with, cuz she was thinking... why, she wasn't really thinking, was she?!

    Runs in the family. In TOS The Menagerie Spock illegally commandeered the Enterprise and 100% violated Star Fleet General Order 7 (violation of which carried the death penalty) - yet next week, he was back in Starfleet's and Kirk's good graces. ;)

    But it did not endanger anyone, just Spock himself...and was done for the well being of his former captain, who was in a miserable state. Also, the Talosians had a hand in this, it was revealed, and Starfleet realized this and was fine with it. And considering what Pike probably did over his career, starfleet can be flexible.

    Burnham started an all out war,

    Also, I did find that rule odd, I feel sorry for anyone who might crash there.

    People are so dense.

    T'Kuvma started the war. Not Burnham.

    In fairness, Burnham got misblamed for starting the war in-universe, too.

    Not "legally" speaking, IIRC, she was just convicted for her mutiny attempt. In the court of public opinion, she fared worse, but it seems obvious why - no one in Starfleet or the Federation knows what the Klingons or T'Kuvma were really thinking. But they know very well that Burnham knocked out her Captain and tryed to take over so she could shoot at the Klingons, that she killed a Klingon already (even if it's considered more an accident) and she had personal reasons to hate Klingons (not sure how public the latter detail is, though) - and everyone else in Starfleet, including her dead hero Captain and a dead Admiral, tried to make peace. If the Federation doctrine is that peace is always possible and any sensible person or nation would prefer it, it's obvious that she is the one thing clearly not acting sensibly and against the interests of peace.
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    Anyone who thinks Burnham started the war clearly doesn't watch the show.

    I get why she was blamed, but in every instance, the Klingons struck first. On the Satellite, the warrior attacked first despite Burnham's attempt at communication. That Klingon ended up dead. During the Battle of the Binary stars, her mutiny attempt was foiled before she could fire. Even still, the Klingons were in Federation Space, they summoned 24 back up ships and then opened fire first (because Burnham failed.)

    Yes, the mutiny is on her.. she's guilty, but she didn't start a war. That war was starting no matter what and that's obvious. It's possible that had she fired on T'Khuvma before he could light the beacon, he might have withdrawn.. but of course that's just speculation and impossible to prove.
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  • thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 5,970 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    Yes, the mutiny is on her.. she's guilty, but she didn't start a war. That war was starting no matter what and that's obvious. It's possible that had she fired on T'Khuvma before he could light the beacon, he might have withdrawn.. but of course that's just speculation and impossible to prove.

    That or the other Klingon ships would have seen the ship fire on the big Klingon ship and just destroyed it.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    thay8472 wrote: »
    Yes, the mutiny is on her.. she's guilty, but she didn't start a war. That war was starting no matter what and that's obvious. It's possible that had she fired on T'Khuvma before he could light the beacon, he might have withdrawn.. but of course that's just speculation and impossible to prove.
    That or the other Klingon ships would have seen the ship fire on the big Klingon ship and just destroyed it.
    Yeah they had no interest in going home without a war.
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  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,252 Arc User
    > @artan42 said:
    > sirsitsalot wrote: »
    >
    > artan42 wrote: »
    >
    > No. You were telling me that DSC was not a Prime Timeline show for reasons. As the only people who have the right to do that with their own intellectual property are CBS you must be CBS to disagree. You disagreed ergo you're Mr CBS. Again, thank you for taking time from your busy schedule to talk to little old me.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > The universe of Star Trek as portrayed in Discovery does not fit with the universe of Star Trek as portrayed in all of the other prime universe shows. By that logic it cannot be part of the prime universe unless it proves to be an alternate timeline which must be undone if the rest of the prime universe timeline is to exist as it has thus far. In order for Discovery to be reconciled with the other shows, at its conclusion, either it must be totally undone, or TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY must be totally undone or else redone in Doscovery's image. As it stands, it cannot be part of the same reality that the rest of Star Trek's prime universe exists in. Ergo! Vis a Vis! Concordantly!
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > And you've still not mentioned a single one of those ways it dosn't fit for you. Not one. You've vaguely complained about Klingons and the Spore Drive but not a single reason why it dosn't fit in the era it shows. Not one.
    >
    > And nothing needs reconciling. Prime Universe or Timeline is a fictional term defined by CBS along the lines of 'any canon shown not related to the Kelvin Timeline films' so where does DSC not fit in there? Why is your made up definition superior to the one that seems to be used by the people who actually make and own Star Trek.
    >
    > The only thing that requires reconciliation is your personal view of what the period 10 years prior to TOS should look like. Nothing more, nothing less. DSC requires no alterations at all that the producers don't want to make.​​

    Well let's see. None of the nacelle designs match anything previous and the closest nacelle designs are found probably in TMP era. Most of the console designs also look more along the lines of TMP era.

    The ship sizes are far too big. Trekyards got the official models for the recent official licenced game from CBS for star trek and it already proves that the Enterprise we see at the end of season 1 is at least 33% bigger. Shenzhou is atleast the size of Excelsior, but in Star Trek 3, when the crew sees the Excelsior, the feeling is no-one has ever seen a ship that big in the fleet or heard of one ever(that's just the impression I got when I see that scene from ST:III)

    The uniform piping on Pike's uniform looks more like the Kelvin timeline rather than TOS.

    Mirror universe symbol looks absolutely ZERO like the Terran empire symbol before or after.

    I can keep going on inaccuracy TRIBBLE ups and continuity errors there are.
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  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,252 Arc User
    > @artan42 said:
    > sirsitsalot wrote: »
    >
    > artan42 wrote: »
    >
    > No. You were telling me that DSC was not a Prime Timeline show for reasons. As the only people who have the right to do that with their own intellectual property are CBS you must be CBS to disagree. You disagreed ergo you're Mr CBS. Again, thank you for taking time from your busy schedule to talk to little old me.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > The universe of Star Trek as portrayed in Discovery does not fit with the universe of Star Trek as portrayed in all of the other prime universe shows. By that logic it cannot be part of the prime universe unless it proves to be an alternate timeline which must be undone if the rest of the prime universe timeline is to exist as it has thus far. In order for Discovery to be reconciled with the other shows, at its conclusion, either it must be totally undone, or TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY must be totally undone or else redone in Doscovery's image. As it stands, it cannot be part of the same reality that the rest of Star Trek's prime universe exists in. Ergo! Vis a Vis! Concordantly!
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > And you've still not mentioned a single one of those ways it dosn't fit for you. Not one. You've vaguely complained about Klingons and the Spore Drive but not a single reason why it dosn't fit in the era it shows. Not one.
    >
    > And nothing needs reconciling. Prime Universe or Timeline is a fictional term defined by CBS along the lines of 'any canon shown not related to the Kelvin Timeline films' so where does DSC not fit in there? Why is your made up definition superior to the one that seems to be used by the people who actually make and own Star Trek.
    >
    > The only thing that requires reconciliation is your personal view of what the period 10 years prior to TOS should look like. Nothing more, nothing less. DSC requires no alterations at all that the producers don't want to make.​​

    Well let's see. None of the nacelle designs match anything previous and the closest nacelle designs are found probably in TMP era. Most of the console designs also look more along the lines of TMP era.

    The ship sizes are far too big. Trekyards got the official models for the recent official licenced game from CBS for star trek and it already proves that the Enterprise we see at the end of season 1 is at least 33% bigger. Shenzhou is atleast the size of Excelsior, but in Star Trek 3, when the crew sees the Excelsior, the feeling is no-one has ever seen a ship that big in the fleet or heard of one ever(that's just the impression I got when I see that scene from ST:III)

    The uniform piping on Pike's uniform looks more like the Kelvin timeline rather than TOS.

    Mirror universe symbol looks absolutely ZERO like the Terran empire symbol before or after.

    I can keep going 9n> @smokebailey said:
    > crypticarmsman wrote: »
    >
    > meimeitoo wrote: »
    >
    > And then there's Burnham. Now she's suddenly the hero? She committed outright mutiny. And even if you can bring yourself to overlook the latter, she personally STARTED the whole war to begin with, cuz she was thinking... why, she wasn't really thinking, was she?!
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Runs in the family. In TOS The Menagerie Spock illegally commandeered the Enterprise and 100% violated Star Fleet General Order 7 (violation of which carried the death penalty) - yet next week, he was back in Starfleet's and Kirk's good graces. ;)
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > But it did not endanger anyone, just Spock himself...and was done for the well being of his former captain, who was in a miserable state. Also, the Talosians had a hand in this, it was revealed, and Starfleet realized this and was fine with it. And considering what Pike probably did over his career, starfleet can be flexible.
    >
    > Burnham started an all out war,
    >
    > Also, I did find that rule odd, I feel sorry for anyone who might crash there.

    Well not only that but Burnham is a flat out hypocrite.

    Attacks her CO and starts a mutiny, then 30 seconds later is lecturing Saru on obeying the chain of command.

    Then later on states "We can't kill T'Kuvma, he'll become a martyr."

    By the end of the mission, kills T'Kuvma when she could of completed the mission and captured him.

    Like I said. Burnham is a hypocrite of the HIGHEST order.
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  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,252 Arc User
    > @patrickngo said:

    > remember that she has the protection of Plot though-as the main character, she is always going to come out on top, and any (reasonable) in universe criticism is always going to be clearly framed as unfair and/or bigoted when it becomes dramatically necessary for her actions to be unforgotten again. this is also how she got away with being petulant and willfull to begin with.

    I don't blame Burnham for starting the war. She tried to however. Here's what I blame her for.

    -Mutiny
    -Betraying the very ideals of Starfleet and not shooting first
    -Hypocrisy on multiple counts
    -Mary Sue
    -unearned ending

    She was a character that even while court marshaled and not worthy of redemption, she got it anyways because plot abd she's the hero.

    Hell TILLY deserved to be the hero more than Burnham.

    Plus the fact Star Trek shifted from an ensemble cast of the whole bridge crew to the Mike Burnham show.

    I mean who is the chief engineer? Chief Medical officer? I know Saru is Science, who's the tactical officer? Those other bridge officers you see all the time but do next to nothing, what do they do?

    But they don't matter because Burnham.
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,908 Arc User
    Even more so than the (theorized) stable transuranics? (The structure of the periodic table implies that there's an "island of stability" somewhere way out there. The heaviest element yet synthesized, oganesson, is element 118, with a half-life of about 0.60 milliseconds.)
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,908 Arc User
    Smoky, the Klingons started the war. Burnham was just a convenient excuse - if it hadn't been her, it would have been someone or something else. Get over it.

    And whether Spock endangered anyone in committing his crimes is immaterial - he still committed them. (And for that matter, his "not endangering anyone" is only clear in hindsight - at the time, he was plunging over four hundred people to what might well have been their deaths, in violation of multiple orders.) What this does tell us is that Spock isn't above fudging the truth in his own interest; it was the following season that he told Chekov there had "never" been an instance of mutiny aboard a Starfleet ship, even though he'd done it himself a year before. (Being cleared due to extenuating circumstances doesn't erase the original offense, just excuses it.)

    (I mean, I'll cut him some slack for the incidents in "This Side of Paradise", as he was under the influence of an alien life form at the time, but...)
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,908 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    Edited to delete repetition

    Okay, finally pulled the trigger on CBS All Access last night, and watched through "Context Is For Kings". And it didn't matter what Georgiou did, or what Burnham did - merely responding to the damaged relay was all T'kuvma and his cult members needed. They were going to start a war to reunite the Klingon Empire, one way or another. It's possible that if Burnham's "Vulcan hello" had been carried out, that might have impressed the arriving Klingon ships enough to avoid war, but there was no other outcome of that moment that would not have led to essentially the same result.

    (Oh, and they were pretty clearly a cult, ceremonial armor not worn by other Klingons and all. Didn't see that spiky TRIBBLE on any of the Great House reps during the holo-conference call!)
    Post edited by jonsills on
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,962 Arc User
    Does this thread have some kind of hiccup? Quick, someone startle it.
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,033 Arc User
    the edit monster's been striking hard lately; kael (or someone) just manually fixed posts across a whole bunch of threads​​
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    #LegalizeAwoo

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    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
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    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
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    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    talonxv wrote: »
    Well let's see.

    We can but you might want to put some more effort into this that you did in your moan thread in Ten Forward.
    talonxv wrote: »
    None of the nacelle designs match anything previous and the closest nacelle designs are found probably in TMP era.

    Correct. And as we know the TMP era nacelles didn't match anything seen before. Neither did the TNG nacelles. Do you have point here or what?
    talonxv wrote: »
    Most of the console designs also look more along the lines of TMP era.

    We covered this in the other thread. Quite substantially. They resemble the ones that came before very much so (NX, Franklin, Kelvin) and the ones that follow later (TMP era and TNG). TOS is the one that looks nothing like the stuff that comes earlier and later. DSC is correcting TOS' shortfall by showing evolution.
    talonxv wrote: »
    The ship sizes are far too big.

    No they aren't.
    FleetChart1.png?version=dd63d5fdffbbd3e53c4d23cf18f43fae

    Most of the bulk is nacelles not volume. There's only the Shepherd and the Cardenas that out volume the Excelsior. So again it's the Conni that's the odd duck out not the DSC ships.
    talonxv wrote: »
    Shenzhou is atleast the size of Excelsior, but in Star Trek 3, when the crew sees the Excelsior, the feeling is no-one has ever seen a ship that big in the fleet or heard of one ever(that's just the impression I got when I see that scene from ST:III)

    And that's your problem not the show's. No show has ever stated the Conni is a large ship or that it's in any way special.


    Essentially to illustrate here. The Conni is the single, lone example of a TOS era Starship. That's it. One. The Conni. Telling us what the era should look like based on that is identical to telling the designers of the Sovereign, Intrepid, or Prometheus that their ships are wrong because the Defiant (the first seen ship of the DS9 era) doesn't look like that.

    It is not that all the ships of DSC fail to match the Conni, it's that the Conni is the oddball. It's the wrong ship that's too small with nacelles that are a throwback to the Kelvin and NX eras. It's the ship with the innards made of cardboard and string whilst all its sister ships correctly look like evolutions of the Kelvin and predecessors to the Excelsior or Constellation.

    talonxv wrote: »
    The uniform piping on Pike's uniform looks more like the Kelvin timeline rather than TOS.

    And? It's not supposed to look like TOS because it's not TOS. It's a decade before TOS. The pilot uniforms have been retconned out of The Cage era (they may still yet be in service by WNMHGB) but they certainly don't resemble the KT uniforms besides sharing the same colours.
    talonxv wrote: »
    Mirror universe symbol looks absolutely ZERO like the Terran empire symbol before or after.

    Jesus Christ! You've never seen national or political symbols change!? You've never considered the possibility that the Terran empire might like to refresh their insignia in the same way normal nations do and that the TOS Emperor might have been a traditionalist who reverted back to the ENT era one. Possibly to wipe away the stains of Emperors Georgiou and Lorca.

    Or even that the writers and producers of ENT were lazy buggers who didn't change stuff it would be realistic to change. A bit like the TNG and DS9 producers who thought the Klingons would be knocking about in their TMP armour a century later.
    talonxv wrote: »
    I can keep going on inaccuracy **** ups and continuity errors there are.

    Please do. You might actually get a real one and not one that can be dismissed in seconds.

    I won't bother with your stuff about Burnham as it's already been covered properly in Ten Forward.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,252 Arc User
    > @artan42 said:
    > talonxv wrote: »
    >
    > Well let's see.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > We can but you might want to put some more effort into this that you did in your moan thread in Ten Forward.
    > talonxv wrote: »
    >
    > None of the nacelle designs match anything previous and the closest nacelle designs are found probably in TMP era.

    > Correct. And as we know the TMP era nacelles didn't match anything seen before. Neither did the TNG nacelles. Do you have point here or what?

    Yes but somehow magically the DSC Enterprise comes swooping in with a nacelle type or close to it. Why can't the rest of the fleet?

    And before you state a reason the NX era and TOS managed to use the same Nacelle shape. Why change nacelles from whar you've been using before for the DSC ships, then go back to an older design for the Enterprise. That makes ZERO sense.
    > talonxv wrote: »
    >
    > Most of the console designs also look more along the lines of TMP era.

    > We covered this in the other thread. Quite substantially. They resemble the ones that came before very much so (NX, Franklin, Kelvin) and the ones that follow later (TMP era and TNG). TOS is the one that looks nothing like the stuff that comes earlier and later. DSC is correcting TOS' shortfall by showing evolution.

    If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    > talonxv wrote: »
    >
    > The ship sizes are far too big.

    > No they aren't.

    Yes they are.

    I'll trust Trek Yards over you any day.
    > Most of the bulk is nacelles not volume. There's only the Shepherd and the Cardenas that out volume the Excelsior. So again it's the Conni that's the odd duck out not the DSC ships.
    > talonxv wrote: »
    >
    > Shenzhou is atleast the size of Excelsior, but in Star Trek 3, when the crew sees the Excelsior, the feeling is no-one has ever seen a ship that big in the fleet or heard of one ever(that's just the impression I got when I see that scene from ST:III)

    > And that's your problem not the show's. No show has ever stated the Conni is a large ship or that it's in any way special.
    >
    > Essentially to illustrate here. The Conni is the single, lone example of a TOS era Starship. That's it. One. The Conni. Telling us what the era should look like based on that is identical to telling the designers of the Sovereign, Intrepid, or Prometheus that their ships are wrong because the Defiant (the first seen ship of the DS9 era) doesn't look like that.
    >
    > It is not that all the ships of DSC fail to match the Conni, it's that the Conni is the oddball. It's the wrong ship that's too small with nacelles that are a throwback to the Kelvin and NX eras. It's the ship with the innards made of cardboard and string whilst all its sister ships correctly look like evolutions of the Kelvin and predecessors to the Excelsior or Constellation.

    This is so wrong it hurts. Keep being wrong, it's laughable at this point.

    > talonxv wrote: »
    >
    > The uniform piping on Pike's uniform looks more like the Kelvin timeline rather than TOS.

    > And? It's not supposed to look like TOS because it's not TOS. It's a decade before TOS. The pilot uniforms have been retconned out of The Cage era (they may still yet be in service by WNMHGB) but they certainly don't resemble the KT uniforms besides sharing the same colours.

    And here we go, why Retconn out when you simply could of used those uniforms? Atleast you admit a retconn.

    > talonxv wrote: »
    >
    > Mirror universe symbol looks absolutely ZERO like the Terran empire symbol before or after.

    > Jesus Christ! You've never seen national or political symbols change!? You've never considered the possibility that the Terran empire might like to refresh their insignia in the same way normal nations do and that the TOS Emperor might have been a traditionalist who reverted back to the ENT era one. Possibly to wipe away the stains of Emperors Georgiou and Lorca.
    >
    > Or even that the writers and producers of ENT were lazy buggers who didn't change stuff it would be realistic to change. A bit like the TNG and DS9 producers who thought the Klingons would be knocking about in their TMP armour a century later.

    Oh my dear god. This is just flat mental gynmastics here. Or is it that the writers in ENT wanted to keep CONTINUITY. You do realize the symbol of the federation(not the delta on the uniforms, but what's on the flag) has never changed since the inception of the Federation.

    Gimme a break.
    > talonxv wrote: »
    >
    > I can keep going on inaccuracy **** ups and continuity errors there are.
    >
    > Please do. You might actually get a real one and not one that can be dismissed in seconds.
    >
    > I won't bother with your stuff about Burnham as it's already been covered properly in Ten Forward.​​

    The mental gymnastics here. I swear.
    You are literally having to bend over backwards to defend them instead of admitting stylistically they screwed up.
    afMSv4g.jpg
    Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!

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  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,252 Arc User
    > @somtaawkhar said:
    > talonxv wrote: »
    >
    > I'll trust Trek Yards over you any day.
    >
    >
    >
    > Trusting Trek Yards on the matter of ship sizes is rather silly since the numbers they use for ship sizes are based off of Eaglemoss model data, and their argument that Eaglemoss is right is that CBS gave them the numbers, but CBS themselves have said nothing outside of the TV shows and movies is canon, and nowhere in the TV or movies do they actually state the size of the Enterprise, or Discovery, so by CBs's own word, none of the numbers they have given Eaglemoss are canon.
    >
    > Trek Yards are literally using made up numbers that aren't canon, and have basically admitted they don't care.

    And this is wrong. If you'd of bothered to watch the video they didn't base it of eaglemoss. They based off the official models of a CBS licenced game.

    Try again.
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    Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!

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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,540 Arc User
    The TOS Enterprise was almost a million gross tons ('Mudd's Women') with a crew of 430. During Pike's Captaincy around Talos time the complement was 207. Length 947 feet.

    A modern US Aircraft Carrier of the Nimitz class runs, fully laden, at 97,000 tons and 1,092 feet.

    So the Aircraft Carrier runs about 100 tons a foot, while the Starship runs about 10 times as much per foot.

    Enterprise D was twice as long and 4.5 times the weight.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • kyle223catkyle223cat Member Posts: 584 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    ltminns wrote: »
    The TOS Enterprise was almost a million gross tons ('Mudd's Women') with a crew of 430. During Pike's Captaincy around Talos time the complement was 207. Length 947 feet.

    A modern US Aircraft Carrier of the Nimitz class runs, fully laden, at 97,000 tons and 1,092 feet.

    So the Aircraft Carrier runs about 100 tons a foot, while the Starship runs about 10 times as much per foot.

    Enterprise D was twice as long and 4.5 times the weight.

    The million gross tons always seemed a little high to me for a Constitution-class starship. I guess when I think of the idea that a Galaxy-class is only 4.5 times heavier than a Constitution and an Excelsior is only 2.3 times heavier than a Constitution, I just have a hard time believing it. I mean, an Intrepid was 700,000 tons and it's obviously bigger than a Constitution. I need to give a size comparison chart between the ships a look over again.
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,908 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    Remember also that mantra, "Canon is what's been on TV and films." (And now, whatever we call that online-streaming grey area between.)

    Video games aren't "canon"; the information in them may or may not be accurate. I mean, according to video games, the TMP-era Excelsior-class carried multiple space-superiority fighters, a class of craft not introduced until DS9, with trained expert pilots, as per Star Trek: Shattered Universe on the PS2...
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