I just hope that Cryptic/PWE doesn't become so concerned with kissing CBS's butt over Discovery that they loose sight of the the prime ENT-NEMESIS universe that drew everyone here to begin with. I would find it upsetting if they keep updating the discovery era and neglect the core era.
DSC is the Prime ENT-NEM universe. It takes place between ENT and TOS.
Except it isn't and it doesn't.
Just because they may SAY it does does nor make it true. It is a completely altered universe shoehorned into a point between the ENT and TOS. The only way I will be able to accept that Discovery is an actual part of the prime universe is if its final episode explains that some sinister force caused everything to suddenly be altered, and it continued that way for however many years the show will have run, and that force was ultimately defeated, causing a total reversal of events, resulting in the whole thing having never happened. It would be the year of hell effect on an epic scale.
And to explain the Klingons as they look... What if the sinister force's first move was an ever so slight alteration of the genetic manipulation that Phlox applied to the Klingons making them "humanized?" Instead in increases the Klingon side turning them into what we see them as in Discovery. But that too would be a change that gets undone. And this whole slipping into some sort of space mushroom induced vertical warp jump BS? The catalyst that makes it possible is a side-effect of the sinister force's incursion into that timeline, So it would have never existed either...
My point is, that it is going to take the show runners a whole lot of fancy writing to explain how the Star Trek universe of Discovery actually fits within the prime universe of the shows and films that came before. And I am sorry, but "It just does" will not be acceptable.
you're forgetting the first rule of intellectual property; the owner of the IP gets to decide if it's canon, if it fits, if it belongs, and not the fans.
CBS can do it by decree (and has done it by decree) because it's their property to do that with.
not yours, not mine, not ours, not even Artan42's.
they can do as they choose with it, and no, it doesn't have to make sense, and no, it doesn't even have to be good. It's Theirs not ours.
Yep and given their dissension to expand the franchise heavily for the next 5 years based on the success of Discovery’s first season the term “good” here is highly relative. Peeps seem to enjoy the show a great deal and rightly so. I’m a fan for 30 years and so far have not seen anything that would violate treating TRIBBLE as part of the prime timeline. Sure, things may look different for nitpicks inspecting dust-particles on the dark side of the moon but for them the entire franchise should be a mess and they don’t really have any reason to let that out on Discovery.
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> @sirsitsalot said: > Except that CBS/Paramount were not "at fault." They simply didn't have full legal grounds to sue Axanar because of the technicality that there never had been any specific guidelines within which fan film makers had to operate. So once that argument, which legally could not be disupted, was made, the lawsuit was dropped, and the guidelines were established, > > It's sad that common sense couldn't just apply, in that you don't take someone else's intellectual property and treat it like your own and profit from it. That is what Axanar was doing, and without that "there were no clear guidelines" argument, Axanar could have been sued and made an example of as to what NOT to do, and the rest of fan film productions could have gone on with no effect. But with that argument made, CBS/Paramount had no choice but to establish a set of guidelines that apply to everyone, going forward. > > Whether we like it or not, Star Trek does not belong to US. We may voice our negative opinion on the direction CBS is taking the IP, but it is THEIR IP to take whatever direction they want. The only rights we have towards Star Trek is to watch it or not watch it. Anything else that CBS/Paramount had permitted up to when the Axanar issue arose was a privilege. Star Trek fandom... or ANY fandom for that matter, is not entitled to anything. We must remember that, whether we like it or not.
Right for the wrong reasons. CBS has no legal or moral obligation to allow ANY UNLICENSED WORKS WHATSOEVER (barring fair use exceptions, which are primarily parody and literary criticism), and many IP owners in fact do not allow fan works (Fanfiction.net keeps a list). But they've been extremely generous for a very long time, in part because it makes good business sense: a fandom that is engaged with the IP enough to want to make up their own stories is one that will pay money to keep it alive. Now contrast that with Warner Bros., who sent a C&D to a team that was making an LOTR total conversion for The Elder Scrolls IV (officially on grounds that they didn't want it competing with Lord of the Rings Online, because an MMORPG and a single-player RPG are apparently the same thing).
But Smart Alec went and tried to profit off of his fan film, using donated funds for personal expenses, paying himself a five figure salary, and trying to establish a permanent film studio. And we know he did this because he was stupid enough to document it in a Christmas 2015 financial report he sent out to his backers. It is not coincidental that CBS filed suit three days later.
But CBS was still willing to be generous: early on they offered a settlement whereby Smart Alec could keep everything and make the film as planned, as long as he acted like every other fan filmmaker in the history of ever and didn't try to profit off it. Alec Peters threw this offer in their faces and tried to counter-sue, essentially arguing that CBS didn't own the IP and therefore had no right to tell him what to do. (At the time I observed that if you made this the plot to a law procedural, you'd be laughed out of the writers' room for being too unrealistic. ) This went nowhere for obvious reasons, but when you act like an entitled douchebag to someone who's already being far more generous than they need to be, it tends to make them angry.
So CBS had no choice but to call his bluff on the guidance thing he'd argued early on, lest some other fan filmmaker get any funny ideas.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Oh you're CBS! My apologies. I'll take your word about your own show over random whingeing fanbois any day.
Thank you for taking the time to talk to me Mr CBS.
I never claimed to be CBS... I was merely laying out the terms within which I could accept that what Discovery is could actually fit within the prime universe continuity established and more or less adhered to in the shows that came before. And that would be under the precedent of alternate timelines springing into being and then ceasing to have ever existed. Yesterday's Enterprise... Year of Hell... The Visitor... All Good Things... City on the Edge of Forever... Cold Front... There are examples from every Star Trek show of this...
And if they do decide to go that route with Discovery, I would actually consider it to be pretty damned cool, as it would be the first alternate timeline scenario to be given a full series. And no... the JJ-verse films do not qualify. They take place in an alternate universe, similar to the mirror universe. So anything that happens within it is compartmentalized and independent from the prime universe, though it was an event in the prime universe that opened the gateway to the JJ-verse.
If Discovery were to be touted as another universe like the JJ-verse or mirrior universe, my opinion of it would be totally different. But they are trying to push it as being part of the prime universe, and what ALL of previously created Star Trek tells me that the only way for that to be so is if it were one big skew in the timeline that ultimately gets reversed. Otherwise its implications must lead to a remake of TOS and TNG with DS9 and VOY altered as well... But as it is, the continuity with Discovery is totally at odds with the continuity of the rest of prime universe trek.
No. You were telling me that DSC was not a Prime Timeline show for reasons. As the only people who have the right to do that with their own intellectual property are CBS you must be CBS to disagree. You disagreed ergo you're Mr CBS. Again, thank you for taking time from your busy schedule to talk to little old me.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
> @azrael605 said: > > @kabutotokugawa said: > > reyan01 wrote: » > > > > kabutotokugawa wrote: » > > > > valoreah wrote: » > > > > ^ This is assuming that reviews on any of these sites are legit. > > > > > > > > > > I see no reason for them not to be. Many of them are quite long, detailed, and not what one would expect from say a "Bot" or shill. > > Here is an example: > > > > 1-star out of 10 > > Terrible and insulting at the same time. > > 2 May 2018 | by Captain_Blue – See all my reviews > > > > Damage control has now set in. They are of the misimpression that changing uniform colors and bastardizing the TOS Enterprise is what the fan base want. Are they stupid? > > > > How can they not realize or understand that the entire concept of a retconn reboot stabs at the very heart of every Trek fan? We tried to tell them so early on and they dismissed it entirely. They think they know better than their target audience. > > > > Every Trek show which has dealt with prequels and time travel has been fully focused on ensuring painstakingly level of accuracy. TRIBBLE dumps all over that by declaring that their way is the right way. > > > > TRIBBLE is without a doubt the darkest page in the history of the franchise. I find it offensive to my intelligence. I don't like the characters, I don't like the writing, and I sure as hell hope that humanity doesn't end up like those morons. > > > > There is literally nothing to inspire me here. It doesn't want to make me a better person, it doesn't give me any incentive to hang on for the future just around the corner, and the cheesy telegraphed speeches. > > > > Star Trek is all about tackling hard issues without needing to point out the issues in the first place. TRIBBLE has nothing of that. It's just an action series made for sci-fi fans, there is nothing whatsoever cerebral or otherwise intellectual here for Star Trek fans. > > > > > > > > > > > > I SO feel the need to quote TV Trope's comments regarding DSC here. > > > > "• Star Trek: Discovery carries on the proud tradition of ‘Ruined Forever!’. A streaming service-exclusive? Ruined. A Cosmetically Advanced Prequel? Ruined! Klingons with different forehead bumps and a different design aesthetic? So ruined! Harry Mudd? DOUBLE RUINED. TRIBBLES? EXTRA RUINATION FOR ALL ETERNITY. > > • The Fan Dumb just gets dumber: with Discovery now a hit, CBS is creating more Star Trek series and the popularity of the franchise in general is exploding. Naturally, this is a sure sign of RUINED FOREVER because, essentially, Star Trek is supposed to belong only to its oldest, sourest gate-keepers and no one else. > > • Despite this, these same sour gate-keepers declared that the proof that Discovery would RUIN Trek FOREVER is that no one would watch it. Now, the fact that it's a hit just confirms the ruination." > > > > > > > > > > > > That is hyperbole. ST:D is not a "hit" it is on the same level as ST:E. Meaning it has a following, but that following is only a portion of the Star Trek fanbase as a whole. How large or small that portion is remains to be seen over the next few years. > > According yo CBS & Netflix Discovery is one of the biggest hits they have ever had. You should really try to stick with facts, because the world doesn't conform to your opinion.
I know people who watch Discovery who never watched Star Trek before and have since gone back to watch previous series because they actually like discovery
Except it isn't and it doesn't.
Just because they may SAY it does does nor make it true.
They own the franchise. They can use whatever terms they want fo it. It is because they say it is and they say it is because they can. It's up to you to bend over backwards to fit that in your own hean in whatever shape you want not CBS' job to cater to your whims.
The only way I will be able to accept that Discovery is an actual part of the prime universe is if its final episode explains that some sinister force caused everything to suddenly be altered, and it continued that way for however many years the show will have run, and that force was ultimately defeated, causing a total reversal of events, resulting in the whole thing having never happened. It would be the year of hell effect on an epic scale.
And that's your problem. Though thankfully CBS dosn't care if you do that or not. It'll steam on regardless.
What if the sinister force's first move was an ever so slight alteration of the genetic manipulation that Phlox applied to the Klingons making them "humanized?" Instead in increases the Klingon side turning them into what we see them as in Discovery. But that too would be a change that gets undone.
Nah. That would be bloody stupid and massivly over complicated. The explanation they seem to be going with is that not all Klingons look the same.
And this whole slipping into some sort of space mushroom induced vertical warp jump BS? The catalyst that makes it possible is a side-effect of the sinister force's incursion into that timeline, So it would have never existed either...
Nah, that would also be bloody stupid. Best just to wait and see what the actual writers have in mind here.
My point is, that it is going to take the show runners a whole lot of fancy writing to explain how the Star Trek universe of Discovery actually fits within the prime universe of the shows and films that came before. And I am sorry, but "It just does" will not be acceptable.
No it won't. It'll take what ever they want and you'll swallow it or choke. How much handholding did you need to get over the Enterprise breaking the 'time warp barrier' in The Cage? Or the Klingons having joined the Federation in early TNG? Or the Trill being able to host jump in TNG. OR the TOS Enterprise managing to reach both the galactic rim and core but the Voyager took seven years and innumerable short cuts back? Did you pitch a gibbering fit then or get over it like a big boy?
I was merely laying out the terms within which I could accept that what Discovery is could actually fit within the prime universe continuity established and more or less adhered to in the shows that came before.
Nice neat bullet pointed list please. Give all the 'violations' you've found and lets see if they could A: be corrected for you or B: Shown how they're no greater than any differences between any other show.
Don't worry about the size of the list. I'm quite good with really long posts. Just try to do better than pretending the Klingons have never changed appearance before.
And that would be under the precedent of alternate timelines springing into being and then ceasing to have ever existed. Yesterday's Enterprise... Year of Hell... The Visitor... All Good Things... City on the Edge of Forever... Cold Front... There are examples from every Star Trek show of this...
There is one example of a timeline continuing from a point of divergence. The Kelvin Timeline. All the rest were corrected back to Prime. The same Prime DSC takes place in.
And if they do decide to go that route with Discovery, I would actually consider it to be pretty damned cool, as it would be the first alternate timeline scenario to be given a full series.
Thankfully there's no indication they're taking this lazy way out. Thank gods fanbois don't write for major shows. They're all creatively sterile.
They called the Kelvin Timeline films. They aren't named after the director of the first two in the same way no other series has been named after any of their directors.
They take place in an alternate universe, similar to the mirror universe. So anything that happens within it is compartmentalized and independent from the prime universe, though it was an event in the prime universe that opened the gateway to the JJ-verse.
Incorrect. They take place in the Prime Universe up to the point Nero and Spock emerge from the Prime Timelines 24th century and destroy the Kelvin. From that point they diverge into a sustained alternate timeline that shares the same past as the prime. It's outright stated by Spock in 09 and the plot of BEY relies upon it.
But they are trying to push it as being part of the prime universe,
Incorrect. They say it is it it. They say, you dance. Not the other way around. Don't like it? Go buy Star Trek from them and show them how you want it done.
and what ALL of previously created Star Trek tells me that the only way for that to be so is if it were one big skew in the timeline that ultimately gets reversed.
Yeah I remember that episodes of ENT that explained why the NX looks superior to the Conni. Archer did say it was a 'one big skew in the timeline' and certainly not because cardboard and string looks stupid in 4K.
Otherwise its implications must lead to a remake of TOS and TNG with DS9 and VOY altered as well... But as it is, the continuity with Discovery is totally at odds with the continuity of the rest of prime universe trek.
That's cute. You think Star Trek has good continuity. Does Vulcan have a moon or not?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
No. You were telling me that DSC was not a Prime Timeline show for reasons. As the only people who have the right to do that with their own intellectual property are CBS you must be CBS to disagree. You disagreed ergo you're Mr CBS. Again, thank you for taking time from your busy schedule to talk to little old me.
The universe of Star Trek as portrayed in Discovery does not fit with the universe of Star Trek as portrayed in all of the other prime universe shows. By that logic it cannot be part of the prime universe unless it proves to be an alternate timeline which must be undone if the rest of the prime universe timeline is to exist as it has thus far. In order for Discovery to be reconciled with the other shows, at its conclusion, either it must be totally undone, or TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY must be totally undone or else redone in Doscovery's image. As it stands, it cannot be part of the same reality that the rest of Star Trek's prime universe exists in. Ergo! Vis a Vis! Concordantly!
And you've still not mentioned a single one of those ways it dosn't fit for you. Not one. You've vaguely complained about Klingons and the Spore Drive but not a single reason why it dosn't fit in the era it shows. Not one.
And nothing needs reconciling. Prime Universe or Timeline is a fictional term defined by CBS along the lines of 'any canon shown not related to the Kelvin Timeline films' so where does DSC not fit in there? Why is your made up definition superior to the one that seems to be used by the people who actually make and own Star Trek.
The only thing that requires reconciliation is your personal view of what the period 10 years prior to TOS should look like. Nothing more, nothing less. DSC requires no alterations at all that the producers don't want to make.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
That's cute. You think Star Trek has good continuity. Does Vulcan have a moon or not?
Things Spock "forgot" to mention:
- Ambassador Sarek being his father,
- His Half-Brother Sybok.
- His foster sister Burnham
- Vulcan's Moon
Man, this guy is really secretive.
I think he also forgot to mention the concept of Pon Farr and the fact he was engaged as well.
Though he didn't so much forget to mention Vulcans moon, he outright lies about its existence. It's all fine though, to punish him for the lie Nero stuck him on said moon and dissolved Vulcan for him.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
That's cute. You think Star Trek has good continuity. Does Vulcan have a moon or not?
Things Spock "forgot" to mention:
- Ambassador Sarek being his father,
- His Half-Brother Sybok.
- His foster sister Burnham
- Vulcan's Moon
Man, this guy is really secretive.
I think he also forgot to mention the concept of Pon Farr and the fact he was engaged as well.
Though he didn't so much forget to mention Vulcans moon, he outright lies about its existence. It's all fine though, to punish him for the lie Nero stuck him on said moon and dissolved Vulcan for him.
Good additions.
I thought that moon was Delta Vega, an entirely different planet in a different star system from which you still somehow can observe Vulcan for reasons. (I don't hate the Kelvin Timeline movies, but JJ Abrams is really one of the worst cases of not getting distances in space. He isn't even trying, if it makes a cool scene, it will happen, science, logical or common sense be damned.)
I remember one of the novels "explained" Spock's lie by saying that Vulcan is in a double planet system, meaning that the "moon" is simply the partner planet.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
And then there's Burnham. Now she's suddenly the hero? She committed outright mutiny. And even if you can bring yourself to overlook the latter, she personally STARTED the whole war to begin with, cuz she was thinking... why, she wasn't really thinking, was she?!
Runs in the family. In TOS The Menagerie Spock illegally commandeered the Enterprise and 100% violated Star Fleet General Order 7 (violation of which carried the death penalty) - yet next week, he was back in Starfleet's and Kirk's good graces.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I thought that moon was Delta Vega, an entirely different planet in a different star system from which you still somehow can observe Vulcan for reasons. (I don't hate the Kelvin Timeline movies, but JJ Abrams is really one of the worst cases of not getting distances in space. He isn't even trying, if it makes a cool scene, it will happen, science, logical or common sense be damned.)
I remember one of the novels "explained" Spock's lie by saying that Vulcan is in a double planet system, meaning that the "moon" is simply the partner planet.
Well it's not stated in the film where Delta Vega is and the less headache inducing idea is that it's the large body seen in TMP. An elliptical orbit to take it from as close as it is in TMP and TAS to as far as it is in 09 would explain the arctic conditions as well. And also why it's not seen in TNG, TOS, or ENT when Vulcan is visited, those just so happen to be at its furthest point in its orbit around Vulcan.
Oh, and Spock once lied and said one of his ancestors married a human when he meant his father.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
nope. not interested in JJ anything, and TRIBBLE other than being star trek's VD, is completely flavored by JJtrek, it has no respect for canon. I'll avoid it completely.. think I'll start a Sith on SWTOR
Adios..SWTOR is abubdant with paywalls buy the greedy EA TRIBBLE house which managed to TRIBBLE off a ton of gamers..I stopped playing that garbage over a year ago..And then disney F'éd up the entier franchise, so yeah..Anyways its your choice..See ya..
As for Disco Trek..I'll pass as to much is JJ trek..Also to have another recruit this year will make it 3 which is just plain grind to burn and fill up bank slots..Also dont the FED's have a little to much in terms of content? I am a FED primary but would like to see something for the ROM's and KDF..Its great there is content but damn, it needs variety in the factions..Its only one faction thats getting content while the others are dead or near it..Disco trek well doesnt cut it at any level..
I think he also forgot to mention the concept of Pon Farr and the fact he was engaged as well.
Though he didn't so much forget to mention Vulcans moon, he outright lies about its existence. It's all fine though, to punish him for the lie Nero stuck him on said moon and dissolved Vulcan for him.
The squalin' chief medical officer is unfamiliar with the first officers' biology...
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Wait a second… Do I get this straight? You refuse to “accept” TRIBBLE as being part of the prime timeline because it does not come in a worse look than when had in 1964’s black and white “The Cage” and because the makeup of the Klingons have been altered?
Tell me, did u also refuse to accept TNG for 7 and DS9 for 5 seasons as prime timeline before it was acknowledged for the first time in the show that the Klingons looked different on TOS? How about Enterprise? I suppose not prime-line as well until final season?
And come to think of it in The Cage they babbled something about “time warp factor” and finally “broken time barriers” when flying faster than light. We never heard that again… lets better treat the very first holy Roddenberry Pilot of all Star Trek shows as not prime-timeline as well as such stuff was never ever mentioned later on...
It isn't a question of mere aesthetics. The very portrayal of the universe in which discovery takes place is contrary to the portrayal of the universe that the rest of prime universe takes place.
A fair statement. So, 'concurrent' is an iffy concept when it comes to Trek universes.
I think he also forgot to mention the concept of Pon Farr and the fact he was engaged as well.
Though he didn't so much forget to mention Vulcans moon, he outright lies about its existence. It's all fine though, to punish him for the lie Nero stuck him on said moon and dissolved Vulcan for him.
The squalin' chief medical officer is unfamiliar with the first officers' biology...
Well he is a massive racist. I guess he skipped the Vulcan chapters at medical school so he didn't catch any green blooded diseases.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I think he also forgot to mention the concept of Pon Farr and the fact he was engaged as well.
Though he didn't so much forget to mention Vulcans moon, he outright lies about its existence. It's all fine though, to punish him for the lie Nero stuck him on said moon and dissolved Vulcan for him.
The squalin' chief medical officer is unfamiliar with the first officers' biology...
Yeah that was weird. you'd think it would be in the medical database. But no... "privacy"... really?
Come on people. Delta Vega is no where near just about anything but the Galaxy's edge. They had to limp there on Impulse after coming back through the barrier. It was stated that it was remote enough that the Ore Ships called there only every TWENTY years.
Spock didn't forget anything, he specifically stated in 'The Man Trap' that Vulcan had no moon. Or was that Vulcanian, according to 'Mudd's Women'. And they were on their voyages under the auspices of UESPA (United Earth Space Probe Agency'.
I could go on.
Continuity?
But thanks to Lt. Riley and Lt. Tormolen we can call on Temporal Shenanigans to fix them.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Come on people. Delta Vega is no where near just about anything but the Galaxy's edge. They had to limp there on Impulse after coming back through the barrier. It was stated that it was remote enough that the Ore Ships called there only every TWENTY years.
Spock didn't forget anything, he specifically stated in 'The Man Trap' that Vulcan had no moon. Or was that Vulcanian, according to 'Mudd's Women'. And they were on their voyages under the auspices of UESPA (United Earth Space Probe Agency'.
I could go on.
Continuity?
But thanks to Lt. Riley and Lt. Tormolen we can call on Temporal Shenanigans to fix them.
Yeah but once they retconned their lithium powered starships to the stupid fictional 'dilithium' the jumped the shark and I stopped watching.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Comments
Yep and given their dissension to expand the franchise heavily for the next 5 years based on the success of Discovery’s first season the term “good” here is highly relative. Peeps seem to enjoy the show a great deal and rightly so. I’m a fan for 30 years and so far have not seen anything that would violate treating TRIBBLE as part of the prime timeline. Sure, things may look different for nitpicks inspecting dust-particles on the dark side of the moon but for them the entire franchise should be a mess and they don’t really have any reason to let that out on Discovery.
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> Except that CBS/Paramount were not "at fault." They simply didn't have full legal grounds to sue Axanar because of the technicality that there never had been any specific guidelines within which fan film makers had to operate. So once that argument, which legally could not be disupted, was made, the lawsuit was dropped, and the guidelines were established,
>
> It's sad that common sense couldn't just apply, in that you don't take someone else's intellectual property and treat it like your own and profit from it. That is what Axanar was doing, and without that "there were no clear guidelines" argument, Axanar could have been sued and made an example of as to what NOT to do, and the rest of fan film productions could have gone on with no effect. But with that argument made, CBS/Paramount had no choice but to establish a set of guidelines that apply to everyone, going forward.
>
> Whether we like it or not, Star Trek does not belong to US. We may voice our negative opinion on the direction CBS is taking the IP, but it is THEIR IP to take whatever direction they want. The only rights we have towards Star Trek is to watch it or not watch it. Anything else that CBS/Paramount had permitted up to when the Axanar issue arose was a privilege. Star Trek fandom... or ANY fandom for that matter, is not entitled to anything. We must remember that, whether we like it or not.
Right for the wrong reasons. CBS has no legal or moral obligation to allow ANY UNLICENSED WORKS WHATSOEVER (barring fair use exceptions, which are primarily parody and literary criticism), and many IP owners in fact do not allow fan works (Fanfiction.net keeps a list). But they've been extremely generous for a very long time, in part because it makes good business sense: a fandom that is engaged with the IP enough to want to make up their own stories is one that will pay money to keep it alive. Now contrast that with Warner Bros., who sent a C&D to a team that was making an LOTR total conversion for The Elder Scrolls IV (officially on grounds that they didn't want it competing with Lord of the Rings Online, because an MMORPG and a single-player RPG are apparently the same thing).
But Smart Alec went and tried to profit off of his fan film, using donated funds for personal expenses, paying himself a five figure salary, and trying to establish a permanent film studio. And we know he did this because he was stupid enough to document it in a Christmas 2015 financial report he sent out to his backers. It is not coincidental that CBS filed suit three days later.
But CBS was still willing to be generous: early on they offered a settlement whereby Smart Alec could keep everything and make the film as planned, as long as he acted like every other fan filmmaker in the history of ever and didn't try to profit off it. Alec Peters threw this offer in their faces and tried to counter-sue, essentially arguing that CBS didn't own the IP and therefore had no right to tell him what to do. (At the time I observed that if you made this the plot to a law procedural, you'd be laughed out of the writers' room for being too unrealistic.
So CBS had no choice but to call his bluff on the guidance thing he'd argued early on, lest some other fan filmmaker get any funny ideas.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
No. You were telling me that DSC was not a Prime Timeline show for reasons. As the only people who have the right to do that with their own intellectual property are CBS you must be CBS to disagree. You disagreed ergo you're Mr CBS. Again, thank you for taking time from your busy schedule to talk to little old me.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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> > @kabutotokugawa said:
> > reyan01 wrote: »
> >
> > kabutotokugawa wrote: »
> >
> > valoreah wrote: »
> >
> > ^ This is assuming that reviews on any of these sites are legit.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I see no reason for them not to be. Many of them are quite long, detailed, and not what one would expect from say a "Bot" or shill.
> > Here is an example:
> >
> > 1-star out of 10
> > Terrible and insulting at the same time.
> > 2 May 2018 | by Captain_Blue – See all my reviews
> >
> > Damage control has now set in. They are of the misimpression that changing uniform colors and bastardizing the TOS Enterprise is what the fan base want. Are they stupid?
> >
> > How can they not realize or understand that the entire concept of a retconn reboot stabs at the very heart of every Trek fan? We tried to tell them so early on and they dismissed it entirely. They think they know better than their target audience.
> >
> > Every Trek show which has dealt with prequels and time travel has been fully focused on ensuring painstakingly level of accuracy. TRIBBLE dumps all over that by declaring that their way is the right way.
> >
> > TRIBBLE is without a doubt the darkest page in the history of the franchise. I find it offensive to my intelligence. I don't like the characters, I don't like the writing, and I sure as hell hope that humanity doesn't end up like those morons.
> >
> > There is literally nothing to inspire me here. It doesn't want to make me a better person, it doesn't give me any incentive to hang on for the future just around the corner, and the cheesy telegraphed speeches.
> >
> > Star Trek is all about tackling hard issues without needing to point out the issues in the first place. TRIBBLE has nothing of that. It's just an action series made for sci-fi fans, there is nothing whatsoever cerebral or otherwise intellectual here for Star Trek fans.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I SO feel the need to quote TV Trope's comments regarding DSC here.
> >
> > "• Star Trek: Discovery carries on the proud tradition of ‘Ruined Forever!’. A streaming service-exclusive? Ruined. A Cosmetically Advanced Prequel? Ruined! Klingons with different forehead bumps and a different design aesthetic? So ruined! Harry Mudd? DOUBLE RUINED. TRIBBLES? EXTRA RUINATION FOR ALL ETERNITY.
> > • The Fan Dumb just gets dumber: with Discovery now a hit, CBS is creating more Star Trek series and the popularity of the franchise in general is exploding. Naturally, this is a sure sign of RUINED FOREVER because, essentially, Star Trek is supposed to belong only to its oldest, sourest gate-keepers and no one else.
> > • Despite this, these same sour gate-keepers declared that the proof that Discovery would RUIN Trek FOREVER is that no one would watch it. Now, the fact that it's a hit just confirms the ruination."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > That is hyperbole. ST:D is not a "hit" it is on the same level as ST:E. Meaning it has a following, but that following is only a portion of the Star Trek fanbase as a whole. How large or small that portion is remains to be seen over the next few years.
>
> According yo CBS & Netflix Discovery is one of the biggest hits they have ever had. You should really try to stick with facts, because the world doesn't conform to your opinion.
I know people who watch Discovery who never watched Star Trek before and have since gone back to watch previous series because they actually like discovery
They own the franchise. They can use whatever terms they want fo it. It is because they say it is and they say it is because they can. It's up to you to bend over backwards to fit that in your own hean in whatever shape you want not CBS' job to cater to your whims.
No it isn't.
There is 100 years between ENT and TOS, no shoehorn is necessary here.
And that's your problem. Though thankfully CBS dosn't care if you do that or not. It'll steam on regardless.
I know. Don't you just hate TMP. Bloody TMP retconning my lovely mongol overlords dressed in curtains.
Nah. That would be bloody stupid and massivly over complicated. The explanation they seem to be going with is that not all Klingons look the same.
Nah, that would also be bloody stupid. Best just to wait and see what the actual writers have in mind here.
No it won't. It'll take what ever they want and you'll swallow it or choke. How much handholding did you need to get over the Enterprise breaking the 'time warp barrier' in The Cage? Or the Klingons having joined the Federation in early TNG? Or the Trill being able to host jump in TNG. OR the TOS Enterprise managing to reach both the galactic rim and core but the Voyager took seven years and innumerable short cuts back? Did you pitch a gibbering fit then or get over it like a big boy?
Nice neat bullet pointed list please. Give all the 'violations' you've found and lets see if they could A: be corrected for you or B: Shown how they're no greater than any differences between any other show.
Don't worry about the size of the list. I'm quite good with really long posts. Just try to do better than pretending the Klingons have never changed appearance before.
There is one example of a timeline continuing from a point of divergence. The Kelvin Timeline. All the rest were corrected back to Prime. The same Prime DSC takes place in.
Thankfully there's no indication they're taking this lazy way out. Thank gods fanbois don't write for major shows. They're all creatively sterile.
They called the Kelvin Timeline films. They aren't named after the director of the first two in the same way no other series has been named after any of their directors.
Incorrect. They take place in the Prime Universe up to the point Nero and Spock emerge from the Prime Timelines 24th century and destroy the Kelvin. From that point they diverge into a sustained alternate timeline that shares the same past as the prime. It's outright stated by Spock in 09 and the plot of BEY relies upon it.
This 'JJ-verse' still exists only inside your head.
Who cares. Your opinion is to rant mindlessly with no regard for DSC being no different to anyother new series.
Incorrect. They say it is it it. They say, you dance. Not the other way around. Don't like it? Go buy Star Trek from them and show them how you want it done.
Yeah I remember that episodes of ENT that explained why the NX looks superior to the Conni. Archer did say it was a 'one big skew in the timeline' and certainly not because cardboard and string looks stupid in 4K.
That's cute. You think Star Trek has good continuity. Does Vulcan have a moon or not?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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And you've still not mentioned a single one of those ways it dosn't fit for you. Not one. You've vaguely complained about Klingons and the Spore Drive but not a single reason why it dosn't fit in the era it shows. Not one.
And nothing needs reconciling. Prime Universe or Timeline is a fictional term defined by CBS along the lines of 'any canon shown not related to the Kelvin Timeline films' so where does DSC not fit in there? Why is your made up definition superior to the one that seems to be used by the people who actually make and own Star Trek.
The only thing that requires reconciliation is your personal view of what the period 10 years prior to TOS should look like. Nothing more, nothing less. DSC requires no alterations at all that the producers don't want to make.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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- Ambassador Sarek being his father,
- His Half-Brother Sybok.
- His foster sister Burnham
- Vulcan's Moon
Man, this guy is really secretive.
I think he also forgot to mention the concept of Pon Farr and the fact he was engaged as well.
Though he didn't so much forget to mention Vulcans moon, he outright lies about its existence. It's all fine though, to punish him for the lie Nero stuck him on said moon and dissolved Vulcan for him.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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I thought that moon was Delta Vega, an entirely different planet in a different star system from which you still somehow can observe Vulcan for reasons. (I don't hate the Kelvin Timeline movies, but JJ Abrams is really one of the worst cases of not getting distances in space. He isn't even trying, if it makes a cool scene, it will happen, science, logical or common sense be damned.)
I remember one of the novels "explained" Spock's lie by saying that Vulcan is in a double planet system, meaning that the "moon" is simply the partner planet.
Runs in the family. In TOS The Menagerie Spock illegally commandeered the Enterprise and 100% violated Star Fleet General Order 7 (violation of which carried the death penalty) - yet next week, he was back in Starfleet's and Kirk's good graces.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Well it's not stated in the film where Delta Vega is and the less headache inducing idea is that it's the large body seen in TMP. An elliptical orbit to take it from as close as it is in TMP and TAS to as far as it is in 09 would explain the arctic conditions as well. And also why it's not seen in TNG, TOS, or ENT when Vulcan is visited, those just so happen to be at its furthest point in its orbit around Vulcan.
Oh, and Spock once lied and said one of his ancestors married a human when he meant his father.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Adios..SWTOR is abubdant with paywalls buy the greedy EA TRIBBLE house which managed to TRIBBLE off a ton of gamers..I stopped playing that garbage over a year ago..And then disney F'éd up the entier franchise, so yeah..Anyways its your choice..See ya..
Profanity removed. — StarSword-C
Adu-Uss Firefox NCC-93425-F (LVL 65 FED AoY ENG) UR/VR MKXV Fleet Intel Assault Cruiser (July 2016)
Jean-Uss Seratoga Ravenna (LVL 60 FED Delta ENG) UC/R MKVI Bajoran Escort (April 2018)
Dubsa-RRW Mnaudh (LVL 50 FED allied ROM Delta ENG) Warbird (May 2018)
Marop-IKS Orunthi (LVL 50 KNG Delta ENG) BoP (May 2018)
Kanak'lan-TRIBBLE (LVL 65 DOM Gamma ENG) TRIBBLE (June 2018)
Adu-Uss Firefox NCC-93425-F (LVL 65 FED AoY ENG) UR/VR MKXV Fleet Intel Assault Cruiser (July 2016)
Jean-Uss Seratoga Ravenna (LVL 60 FED Delta ENG) UC/R MKVI Bajoran Escort (April 2018)
Dubsa-RRW Mnaudh (LVL 50 FED allied ROM Delta ENG) Warbird (May 2018)
Marop-IKS Orunthi (LVL 50 KNG Delta ENG) BoP (May 2018)
Kanak'lan-TRIBBLE (LVL 65 DOM Gamma ENG) TRIBBLE (June 2018)
I couldnt stop lauging at this!!!
Made my day!!
Adu-Uss Firefox NCC-93425-F (LVL 65 FED AoY ENG) UR/VR MKXV Fleet Intel Assault Cruiser (July 2016)
Jean-Uss Seratoga Ravenna (LVL 60 FED Delta ENG) UC/R MKVI Bajoran Escort (April 2018)
Dubsa-RRW Mnaudh (LVL 50 FED allied ROM Delta ENG) Warbird (May 2018)
Marop-IKS Orunthi (LVL 50 KNG Delta ENG) BoP (May 2018)
Kanak'lan-TRIBBLE (LVL 65 DOM Gamma ENG) TRIBBLE (June 2018)
The squalin' chief medical officer is unfamiliar with the first officers' biology...
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A fair statement. So, 'concurrent' is an iffy concept when it comes to Trek universes.
Well he is a massive racist. I guess he skipped the Vulcan chapters at medical school so he didn't catch any green blooded diseases.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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My character Tsin'xing
Spock didn't forget anything, he specifically stated in 'The Man Trap' that Vulcan had no moon. Or was that Vulcanian, according to 'Mudd's Women'. And they were on their voyages under the auspices of UESPA (United Earth Space Probe Agency'.
I could go on.
Continuity?
But thanks to Lt. Riley and Lt. Tormolen we can call on Temporal Shenanigans to fix them.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Yeah but once they retconned their lithium powered starships to the stupid fictional 'dilithium' the jumped the shark and I stopped watching.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!