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Are players incapable of fighting the Tzenkethi in space?

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  • nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,744 Arc User
    I actually really enjoy this mission, but I never... ever...pug it. I always make sure to do it with a wingman. It's very doable with another competent pilot, but alone with clueless pugs...no thx. I've learned that lesson a couple times.
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  • tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,798 Arc User
    I do comprehend @reyan01 and their disappointment with ISA/CCA.
    For relevance to this thread, a Tzenkethi Red Alert would always launch much faster then the other kinds.
    Which was impractical because no Protomatter Container could be acquired in the Red Alert, so for my purposes, it wasn't worth doing.

    My personal gripe is about the fact that it's much harder to launch a Bug Hunt Elite queue to get Power Cells, yet Borg Disconnected Advanced will fill easier.
    Bug Hunt Elite is faster and easier and has better rewards, yet everyone goes to the harder/slower one with less rewards instead.

    Additionally, since my goals for gear vary depending on whatever item I am seeking and it's rarely Omega gear, the simple fact that the other queues aren't as popular are impeding my project advancement whenever I go after one of those set items.

    Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
    Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad :'(
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    So, still getting frustrated. I still don't do tons of damage, but that's not (and never really was) the issue. There just seems to be no way to survive getting shot at by anything. 90% of all battles look just the same.
    Approach the enemy.
    Enemy instantly strips your shields with a Tachyon Beam (Particle Burst, etc).
    At the same time he fired a High Yield torpedo attack, oneshots your ship, or close to it.
    OR they fire weapons that completely ignore your shields, like plasma or tractor beams, doing 10000dps, and killing you in seconds.
    There's just no GAME in it. Either you're alive, or you're instantly dead. There's no reason to equip shields, because they're instantly removed. There's no reason to have healing or defensive powers, because there's no intermediate steps between undamaged and dead. It's just not any fun.
    Ugh. Perhaps I'm just venting, but it feels like there's some serious design issues here.

    The kinetic/physical dmg you occasionally get seems to be bugged at the moment. With 500000k impacts there is no way to deal with it aside from perhaps temporal invulnerabilities like the Zahl trait.
    Nevertheless it does not change the fact that you can easily get a much more satisfactory game experience out of bringing a potent build to the stage.

    The myth that DPS ships must be weak in defenses sticks around but could not be more away from the truth just like the misconception that DPSer have no idea how to build ships more resilient.

    Playing-time/money invested and a scrub mentality are the only enemies to fight with the latter being a much bigger problem than the former.

    Read @seaofsorrow s quick guide on aux2bat builds, implement it, make an sto academy link of your Assault cruiser and we can give you advise to turn it into a beast without investing too much recourses.

    You will cut to any PvE like buttah when we are done. The only thing between you and a jouyfull game experience is you I’m afraid. Good part is you can change that easily. :)
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    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »

    No logic at all. Protomatter containers notwithstanding, players MIGHT play the Tzenkethi missions more if they weren't so busy playing those two maps instead.

    And please, highlight exactly where I said that they "need to go".

    While I agree with the thought that multiple choice marks you get from RAs may be a hindering factor to the more engaging maps being played I hardly see any connection to cca and isa as both only reward marks from the respective reputation (and fleet in case of cca).

    Do you really believe that any of those players who are being carried through those maps would even consider playing something else engaging instead if those who carry them are turned off (by rewards time gates or whatever)?

    Lol nope, that would not happen. Not in a game where peeps breed birds for marks on risa or painfully transfer 100 per day to the respective elite currency instead of sticking their heads into anything worth doing in a game for 15 minutes.
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    > @colonelmarik said:
    > So, still getting frustrated. I still don't do tons of damage, but that's not (and never really was) the issue. There just seems to be no way to survive getting shot at by anything. 90% of all battles look just the same.
    > Approach the enemy.
    > Enemy instantly strips your shields with a Tachyon Beam (Particle Burst, etc).
    > At the same time he fired a High Yield torpedo attack, oneshots your ship, or close to it.
    > OR they fire weapons that completely ignore your shields, like plasma or tractor beams, doing 10000dps, and killing you in seconds.
    > There's just no GAME in it. Either you're alive, or you're instantly dead. There's no reason to equip shields, because they're instantly removed. There's no reason to have healing or defensive powers, because there's no intermediate steps between undamaged and dead. It's just not any fun.
    > Ugh. Perhaps I'm just venting, but it feels like there's some serious design issues here.

    Omg....wth is that??? Tell me so I can avoid.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    The only thing between you and a jouyfull game experience is you I’m afraid. Good part is you can change that easily. :)

    You would think that...but I rarely find that to be true. When the problem is the player, I generally find it nearly impossible to help them. People don't like change. They don't like to admit they were doing something wrong or poorly. Fixing a build is easy. Fixing a person is a bloody nightmare.

    I suppose you are right. Dunno what it is but most of the performance players I know simply have an inner drive to help and to pass on what has been learned. But yea peeps have to accept change and that is something that starts in each of us.

    Perhaps at my end I often see myself in players who have trouble in PvE. There have always been game sided setbacks like Delta Rising or S13. Every time it was players like felisean, holofrog or hellspawny who approached me saying “hey Pete, have you checked that? Or this one could work as well!” and every time all obstacles this game seem to have thrown at me were quickly overcome.

    It’s just an experience one would like to share. :)
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    The thing is, I feel there's a design flaw somewhere in there. There seems to be no middle ground. You're either immediately dead, or the enemy is immediately dead.
    When I play these kinds of games, with SHIPS (ie not fighters) battling, I expect there to be an exchange of fire, an ongoing wearing down of the enemy until one or the other is victorious.

    Here, I find that there's none of that. I shoot at the enemy, and do next to no damage (even now that I've upgraded my weapons and implemented as much of that A2B build that was suggested as I am able to at present). Everyone just suggests that I improve my weapons... which is fine, except that the goal seems to be to blow up everything in view in less than 2 seconds... because that's the only way to survive. If the enemy is allowed to shoot at you, you're essentially dead almost immediately.

    It starts with the spamming of shield strippers. Tachyon Beams, Particle Bursts and whatnot. It takes away your defense against torpedoes... and at the same time these same enemies spam spreads of torpedoes that can oneshot you - if you have no shields, which they've just ensured by hitting you with a Tachyon Beam. A beam with no defense, no counter, no way to avoid, stop or remedy. It's just an "I win" button for the NPCs.

    Add to that the tractor beam deathrays. I mean, why would any fleet use energy weapons when tractor beams do MORE damage without being affected by shields? This, despite them never being used in combat in Star Trek (well, except for two occasions, and in neither case did they do damage). If it wasn't that they were so ubiquitous, spamming constantly...

    Then you have the fires and environmental things. Plasma, Gravity Wells, and so on. These things can destroy your ship in seconds with no way to prevent it. Oh, there's Hazard Emitters, but when they wear off, you'll still be getting hit by dozens of fires and stuff that your sheilds won't block and your hull can't withstand.

    The whole business is just so frustrating.

    Now, my damage is on the low side, but I can destroy things. The issue is that there seems to be no way to SURVIVE things, and no build, no powers, no gear seems to help this problem.

    But, I'm still working at it.

    As far as I can comprehend there seem to be something bugged after the level 65 scaling when it comes to resistance of kinetics but since one would not put much expensive gear into such a thing anyway you could check out some of the other easy to get elements we have and which could help you to survive much better without sacrificing damage potential. Judging from your posted picture we talk about a Federation assault cruiser.

    Please look up the following in STO wiki and try to get it as it helps a lot:
    - Boff ability “Reverse shield polarity III” with a duty officer that extends its duration
    - Starship trait: “Honored dead” from exchange.
    - Personal traits: “Context is for kings” “Repair crews” and “Give Your All”
    - Any ship shield with 5% bleed through.

    Now I know you are not much into reputations but it’s something worth considering as a lot of potent survivability tricks are put into those as well. Play RAs regularly to get the marks and please work on them.

    It would also help to know if you have been getting any of the past event ships as there is often items on those as well that is highly useful.
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    The bigger issue, really, is that there is nothing to be gained from these reps after completion. The only thing you can do with these things aside from using them to fill rep projects, which does not, in and of itself, actually enable you to get any ITEMS from it because you still have to pay using your minerals out of your own pocket, is trade them in for ore.

    But since they all trade in for the same generic currency, all of them are equally meh. Players have nothing to gain by playing a rep after they've filled it. And each rep offers the same ****: Weapons, shields, deflectors, armors, deflectors, etc. There is only one problem: I CAN ONLY EQUIP ONE OF THESE. Therefore, unless the newly offered item is somehow better than the one I already have, all of these are completely useless to me, and in order to get them at all, I'd have to pay for them using my own money, to boot, so they're not even particularly worth collecting, as there is no action one really takes to obtain them, they're simply paid for with MONEY.
    That's so right. Marks and rep trinkets are just more dilithium-equivalent. So nice you can compact all the rewards for 99% of the game content into a single number to compare, then do whatever pays the most for the least effort (it's Admiralty, BTW).

    The ability to get an item at any time, means you don't have to actually get it until you need it for something. Unfortunately you don't ever need the rep gear for anything because you can play everything in the game just fine without it. It's NOT better than what I already have and even if it was, I'm already OP enough in everything the game gives any reason to play so ask me if I care. The only rep gear I regularly get is the ground sets on my main, for the costume unlocks (and then I have to find somewhere to put them all since even my spare boffs are full of them by now).

    And ever since they reduced the rep traits from all-at-once to "options" you have to slot in, even leveling up reps is usually only something to do just because it's there. Not like it needs much gameplay to do that, either. If you don't get all the marks for free out of some event or another it's just 1 borg alert every other day. Boring.
  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    The myth that DPS ships must be weak in defenses sticks around but could not be more away from the truth just like the misconception that DPSer have no idea how to build ships more resilient.
    Being dead lowers your DPs more than anything.

    Having said that, many Raiders (especially 4/2 weapon layouts) tend to go more offense than defense to make up for their lack of weapons. This leaves less room for resistance boosting consoles and traits. Additionally, many improvements give you a percentage increase of your base stats. One turn rate boosting console gives more improvement to a Raider than it does to a Cruiser. However, the Cruiser gets more benefit from bonus Hull or Shields than a Raider. Many Raider pilots tend to skip percentage boosting traits and consoles because the return is just not worth it.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,587 Arc User
    Then you have the fires and environmental things. Plasma, Gravity Wells, and so on. These things can destroy your ship in seconds with no way to prevent it. Oh, there's Hazard Emitters, but when they wear off, you'll still be getting hit by dozens of fires and stuff that your sheilds won't block and your hull can't withstand.


    Yes, there's Hazard Emitters; but also Science Team. Or that lovely Iconian rep Shield, with its wonderful self-cleansing every 10 seconds. Or Keel'el. And simply disengaging when, say, that Voth Reflection Shield is on you.
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  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Then you have the fires and environmental things. Plasma, Gravity Wells, and so on. These things can destroy your ship in seconds with no way to prevent it. Oh, there's Hazard Emitters, but when they wear off, you'll still be getting hit by dozens of fires and stuff that your sheilds won't block and your hull can't withstand.


    Yes, there's Hazard Emitters; but also Science Team. Or that lovely Iconian rep Shield, with its wonderful self-cleansing every 10 seconds. Or Keel'el. And simply disengaging when, say, that Voth Reflection Shield is on you.

    for the voth i have a tactic(i use the same tactic when i fight a galor), I fire 1 torp, the ship activates her defense, I wait the end of the defense stuff and then it's over for the ennemy.
    for a group of voths, I use faw when they all activate their defense skill, I leave the fight, and I come back when all the skills are ended, boom!.

    In sto there is a little bit of strategy in a world of dps. :)

    i use also the doff with the skill: damage resistance buff when using ramming speed and brace for impact -> + 25 all damage resistance for 10 sec, intesting for my escort.

  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    I'll look into those suggested traits, they're not something I'm familiar with as they're not in my list of traits.

    Oh that’s great mate. Most of them are from exchange but should not be expencive.

    Especially “Reverse shiled polarity III” in that commander slot + Fabrication engineer doff (the Reverse Shield Polarity variant) + aux2bat CD would see to it that you basically have to worry about PvE survivability for like 50% of your engagement times only.

    When I look at my builds there are a handful of items that distinguish my DPS ISA map cleaner from my full HSE tanks. No reason for you not to take the latter in casual PvE if it helps you to stay in one piece. :)
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    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    I started a thread over in the shipyard for those of us trying to help marik with his build.

    That way we can keep this thread on the topic of the Tzenkethi.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    I started a thread over in the shipyard for those of us trying to help marik with his build.

    That way we can keep this thread on the topic of the Tzenkethi.

    Wow thats a great idea sea :)
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    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,798 Arc User
    Actually, it is possible to equip two ship shields, deflector or engines, it's just the second one will not provide any gameplay advantages.
    That is because it is in the Vanity slot, which alters the appearance of the ship.
    Since most Reputation sets alter the visual appearance of a ship, that could be a potential reason to requisition one of these items.
    For example, using a Reman ship shield gives black hull plating and green lighting.

    For the ground sets, it is possible to use several of these, depending on if they are given to the Bridge Officers.
    Some players may requisition them anyway for appearance customisation options at the tailor.

    Me personally, I find it uninteresting to use the same set on every ship, so to improve gameplay variety, I try different sets just to provide a different experience for each character.

    Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
    Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad :'(
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    tilarta wrote: »
    Actually, it is possible to equip two ship shields, deflector or engines, it's just the second one will not provide any gameplay advantages.
    That is because it is in the Vanity slot, which alters the appearance of the ship.
    Since most Reputation sets alter the visual appearance of a ship, that could be a potential reason to requisition one of these items.
    For example, using a Reman ship shield gives black hull plating and green lighting.

    For the ground sets, it is possible to use several of these, depending on if they are given to the Bridge Officers.
    Some players may requisition them anyway for appearance customisation options at the tailor.

    Me personally, I find it uninteresting to use the same set on every ship, so to improve gameplay variety, I try different sets just to provide a different experience for each character.

    Space Barbie is the true endgame. ;)
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,913 Arc User
    I agree with warpangel
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
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