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Minelayer boat guide

pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,165 Arc User
edited June 2019 in The Academy
Victory is Life has been by far the best expansion for minelayer boats. Not only did they get a large boost but the Hur'q are the perfect enemy for mine layer boats to fight. So a big thank you to the devs.

Since ViL a few people have asked me to share my builds so I thought a basic guide would be useful. So here is a generic build that can be altered to fit most ships or into most other builds. You do not need the entire build; just take the elements you like. This isn’t 100% comprehensive.

TLDR: for those that doesn’t want to read a long wall of text

• Front weapons: Inhibiting Chroniton Wide Angle torpedo & between 1 or 3 Transphasic Clusters torpedoes, optional Adv Temporal defence Chroniton torpedo.
• Engine, Deflator, Warp Core, Shields, Gamma Synergistic set.
• Rear weapons: Modulating Competition Mine and Advanced Inhibiting Chroniton Rapid Mines
• Consoles: Covert Munition Deployment & Ordnance Accelerator.

Space Traits: Superior Projectile Training, Hot Pursuit,
Space Rep Traits: Torpedo Pre-fire Sequence
Star Ship Traits: Parting Gift, Reverberation, Heavy Tachyon Mine, Harasser Mines.
Specialization: Temporal Operative Primary.
Active set powers: Self-replicating mines and Seeking Mine Subroutine

Doffs x3 Projectile weapons Officer. x1 crit chance on firing projectiles, x1 crit serv on firing projectiles, x1 chance to reduce mine recharge by 5 sec.

End of TLDR:

Now onto the wall of text.

First decide if you are building around single or generic damage. Before ViL I was a fan of Quantum tactical consoles with Quantum torpedoes alongside Quantum mines. Since ViL I have moved into full generic +Mine consoles. Mines still work without the tactical consoles and so can be attached to most builds. It’s a great way to deal with the Hur'q who like to swarm the rear of your ship.

Generally, I start with Transphasic Clusters torpedoes in the front slots between 2 or 3 (cluster torpedoes drop mines on hitting a target). Never fit 4 as global cool down means 1 is wasted. If you have projectile reload doffs with other torpedoes or in a ship with access to concentrate firepower you can reduce down to as little as 1 cluster and still fire at max rate. Vaadwaur clusters drop Tricobalt mines which are an alternative but I do not favour these as they damage your own ship and do not synergise well with Kemocite. Transphasic Clusters normally cause x3 more Kemocite hits over Tricobalt.

Next I tend to go for an Inhibiting Chroniton Wide Angle torpedo for the set bonus “Deep Space Mine” which is amazing for mine boats. This allows you to create a self-replicating mine field where mines that blow up are automatically replaced. Just like in the TV show and it’s very effective in game. (drop it at a spawn point)

An alternate for a front weapon is the Advanced Temporal defence Chroniton torpedo which in High Yield shoots a Chroniton cluster torpedo but shares a cool down with Transphasic Clusters so once every 15seconds max. If you have access to Concentrate firepower you might want to consider this over any clusters. If mixing into a torpedo boat, chances are you want 2 or 3 front torpedoes and 1 cluster, perhaps even zero clusters and just use rear mines.

For the most part never fit 3 or more rear mine launchers as global cool down is a problem (no longer true see edit below). With photon mines I wouldn’t bother with more than 1 launcher. One exception to this is sometimes Concentrated Tachyon, Nukara and Tractor Beam mines mixed together work. Those tractors are better then they look as you can stack up a ton of them in space at once and they last a long time. 20+ tractor beams on a target rips though hull and once the target dies they swap to a new target if they themselves stay alive.

EDIT: Due to a recent patch which has improved global cooldown it is now worth while to fit 3 mine launchers and possible 4 although you will hit global cooldown problems at 4.EDIT

Apart from the Tachyon mines keep away from lobi mines as they are terrible doing under half the damage per volley of basic mines. The Lobi Corrosive and Tethered Quantum mines are particularly bad. My two favourite rear mines are Modulating Competition Mine and Advanced Inhibiting Chroniton Rapid Mines. The Rapid mines appear towards the front of your ship and arm far faster than normal. Modulating Competition mines damage increase the longer they are in space. You can also use Rapid launcher to drop the self-replicating mine field with the full set.

Console: Ordnance Accelerator this is to mine boats what A Ferrofluid Hydraulic Assembly is to a torpedo boat. It’s as close to a must take as you can get. Not only is it needed for Self-replicating mines but it gives -1 shared mine recharge, 20% mine recharge speed, 26.3% projectile damage, what’s not to like! Next fit a Covert Munition Deployment console which gives 22.3% Quantum damage but I take this even when I don’t use Quantum damage due to the set bonus. 3 part set is a further 33% Quantum damage, 33% resistance to all mines, torpedoes and Seeking Mine subroutine which instructs all active to move towards a set target for 30seconds and you can use them from outside 10km. It’s great for bringing in all the stay mines back into the active combat zone or to target a boss ship.

For engines, deflector, shield, warp core go for Gamma Synergistic set. The deflector is a must but technically you only need 3 parts of the set for the 10% kinetic damage. Not found a better alternative yet. The deflector gives -15 resistance when projectiles hit a target and you should have far more projectile out then even an average torpedo boat. Don't expect to do as much DPS as a high end torpedo boat. But you can still put out respectable DPS.


Traits:
Space Traits: Superior Projectile Training, Hot Pursuit,
Space Rep Traits: Torpedo Pre-fire Sequence
Star Ship Traits: Parting Gift, Reverberation, Heavy Tachyon Mine, Harasser Mines.

Hot pursuit: This is far better than it sounds, highly recommended as it can more than triple your mine DPS by doubling chase distance. Torpedo Pre-fire Sequence is nice for the faster cluster torpedoes so they do not get shot down as much. Reverberation means your mines disables shields like crazy. Heavy Tachyon Mine is nice when you use beam overload, FaW, Rapid Fire, Scatter Volley or subsystem target which make you drop a powerful Tachyon Mine that also drains shields and lower resistance. The Heavy Tachyon Mine trait with a Concentrated Tachyon mine launcher synergise well with on drainx boats. Parting Gift isn’t that useful tractor beams leave a single mine behind. Harasser Mines sounds good but in practise does very little. Once every 20 seconds FaW or Scatter Volley will create a Chroniton mine per target. So about 3 mines.

Specialization: Temporal Operative Primary. Due to Phasic Artillery which gives clusters and mines 11.8k extra hitpoints. Alternatively Intelligence Officer Primary for mine flanking. flanking does not work with mines.

Doffs Doffs x3 Projectile weapons Officer. x1 crit chance on firing projectiles, x1 crit serv on firing projectiles, x1 chance to reduce mine recharge by 5 sec.

Mines have some semi hidden or not so well known stats.

Photon Mines
Increased tracking range of 0.5 which doubles up to 1km with Pursuit trait.
Increased stealth value from 4825 to 4875 which means you have to get around a 0.5km closer before you can see them.
Bio-Molecular photos can be Engineered to have [Radius] for +0.5km explosion radius

Quantum Mines
•Increased flight speed from 25 to 45
•Increased explosion triggering distance from 0.4km to 0.7km.
•Increased explosion radius on Detonation from 1.0km to 1.5k

Transphasic Mines come in two versions. Mine launchers have 80% shield pen. Clusters are only 40%.

Tricobalt Mines broken cooldowns with Tricobalt torpedoes, twice as long delay before being armed, worse DPS/damage then Quantums volleys and they damage your own ship more often then the enemy. Just don’t use them.

Mines have a little quirkiness to them one of which is either the entire volleys crits at the same time or nothing crits. It’s pretty deadly when the entire field crits at the same time. Think of hitting with 14 torpedoes all getting crit hits. The other oddness is Mine Disposal Patterns override previous patterns of the same type and cause mines in space to fade away. For this reason I recommend using a Dispersal Pattern Beta 3 and Dispersal Pattern Alpha 2 never Beta/Beta or Alpha/Alpha. Personally I favour Beta being higher rank then Alpha.

Dispersal Patterns are different with Tribobalt Mines and a few others but for the most part follow this pattern.

Dispersal Pattern Alpha
•Rank 1: Two launches of one mine each.
•Rank 2: Three launches of one mine each.
•Rank 3: Four launches of one mine each
.
Dispersal Pattern Beta:
•Rank 1: Launches two mines - one right, one left.
•Rank 2: Launches three mines in a triangle formation - one top, two bottom.
•Rank 3: Launches four mines in a square formation - two top, two bottom.

Kemocite Laced weapons as long as you lunch the mines while Kemocite is active the mine holds the Kemocite charge until it hits the target even if the time has hit zero. Consider using Attack pattern beta as well.

If you really want to go overboard with mines in space the Vorgon Ryn’Kodan Carrier with Elite Echentis pets. These pets have Dispersal pattern Alpha 3 and a basic mine launcher.

Think about your ship positioning and consider Area of Effect (AoE) splash damage. If a one mine launcher is doing 5k DPS to one ship that becomes 30k DPS if you hit 6 ships. Mine boats can push past 100k sustained DPS, it’s not easy compared to other builds but it is doable.

This doesn’t go down well when said in some groups but mines used correctly can kill certain groups in set situations faster than beams, canons or torpedoes. I am not saying overall DPS is higher throughout the entire mission as it is not. But if you place a mine fields at a warp in point like in Azure Nebula Rescue or Swarm the entire field will donate as the group arrives triggering a large crossover AoE blast that causes damage to multiply up. It’s kind of like shooting 30+ torpedoes within half a second at 5+ ships all doing crossover splash damage. It can be a lot of fun if you are into explosions.

Lastly on the ground you can use mine barrier alongside cloaked mine barrier and there is no such thing as using to many explosives when on a space or ground stealth mission.

EDIT: 2019
After seeing how effective mines are in the recent TFO’s a number of player have asked me about mine layers. So time for an update:

The Vorgon ships have grown on me. I still have the same criticism in that they produce fewer mines and hit less hard, in fact due to the changes in the Advanced Temporal Defense Chroniton Vorgon ships have fallen even further behind in mine production. But the speed bonus from the 3 part console set can make a large difference. A base Photon mine has a speed of 25 while a Quantum mine with the set speed bonus is 65 more than double the speed of a photon.

The Vorgon Xyfius Heavy Escort can fit an experimental Graviton Implosion Charges
https://sto.gamepedia.com/Graviton_Implosion_Charges which is like a mini grav well every 4 seconds pulling enemies near each other, great for mines. You are limited to 3 rear slots but it’s a viable build.

One of the biggest changes is the Advanced Temporal Defense Chroniton torpedo. In high yield mode the cluster shot is no longer locked out by Transphasic cluster torpedoes, no more 15 second lockout. Not only can you now effectively fire two clusters one after each other but with concentrate firepower the Chroniton torpedo can provide a stream of cluster shots every few seconds.

The Styx Terran Dreadnought Cruiser is a new high end mine layer, possibly the best mine layer in game at the time of writing. It can put out constant Chroniton cluster mine shots via x2 copies of concentrate firepower combined with a Transphasic cluster firing at max speed. While also running two copys of Kinetic Magnet and its trait Vaulting Ambition gives +175% Critical Severity vs foes below 20% health which. Works wonders with mines.

Lastly here is a video to demonstrate the mine de swarm bug and why fitting 3, 4 or 5 launchers of the same type is often a bad idea. https://youtu.be/DT-FbsTPU2M

https://www.sto-league.com/minelayer-vorgon-ytijara-dreadnought-cruiser/
https://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/2ae4e4e3e9081fdc7c6b578062f95209
Post edited by pottsey5g on
«1345

Comments

  • rykus83rykus83 Member Posts: 124 Arc User
    with your build which ships do you suggest would a fast turn rate escort or a heavier cruisers, or carriers or does it not matter because the console setup and boff layout is what matters?
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,165 Arc User
    rykus83 wrote: »
    with your build which ships do you suggest would a fast turn rate escort or a heavier cruisers, or carriers or does it not matter because the console setup and boff layout is what matters?
    Today was a lot of fun with mines while running the Swarm on advanced. There is time between each spawn to drop 30+ mines. Then it’s just a mass of explosions as the enemy warp in. Although I did notice Seeking Mine subroutine has been changed it can only be triggered now when the target is within 10km range. It still attracts mines from further away than 10km :(

    Speed , turn rate and targeting are mostly not important so it can be adjusted to most ships as Mines are mostly fire and forget. Personally I tend to fly slower ships like Cruisers and Carriers where the mines are not bothered by the slow turn rate. The equipment and traits are the important bits. At the moment my main ships are the Vorgon Ryn’Kodan Carrier, Jem’Hadar Dreadnought Carrier, Fleet Command Assault Cruiser and Fleet Heavy Destroyer. Going to try the Vanguard Carrier next.

    A Commander Tactical station is desirable for that Beta 3 disposal pattern but a lt commander Tactical works as well. Command station with Concentrate firepower is useful to keep those cluster cooldowns low. Although some people prefer Intel for Kinetic Magnet which isn't something I have used much.

    My current loadout is TT, Attack Pattern beta 1, Kemo 3, Beta disposal pattern 3 with a few cooldown boosts. Previously it was TT, Kemo 2, Spread 3, Beta disposal pattern 3. I did briefly try alpha/beta but I have enough cooldowns on powers that I prefer just beta.

  • rykus83rykus83 Member Posts: 124 Arc User
    cool ty i figured high turn rate wasnt as important
  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,358 Arc User
    good to know. I soo want to like mines (and destructible torpedoes) but they just suffer from long cooldowns and being easily destructible! Like I want to wait 30 seconds to shoot one off, watch it 'activate' in 2-4 seconds and then immediately get FAWed to death. :'(

    Plus they suffer from the same thing cannon powers do, being 1 rank higher than the corresponding torpedo powers. I wish Cryptic would just knock them down a rank so they are a bit more accessible.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,165 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    good to know. I soo want to like mines (and destructible torpedoes) but they just suffer from long cooldowns and being easily destructible! Like I want to wait 30 seconds to shoot one off, watch it 'activate' in 2-4 seconds and then immediately get FAWed to death. :'(

    Plus they suffer from the same thing cannon powers do, being 1 rank higher than the corresponding torpedo powers. I wish Cryptic would just knock them down a rank so they are a bit more accessible.

    Try this combo Phasic Artillery gives the mines and clusters 11,800 extra hitpoints. Master of the Mined gives 33% resistance, Torpedo Pre-fire Sequence makes the Clusters travel 33% faster which all combined massively helps to stop them being destroyed. Self Replicating mine field automatically replaces destroyed mines as well. (EDIT: not all mines, just the Self Replicating mines)

    The Rapid mine launcher is for speed deployments with quick arming mines.

    The rank bit I do sort of agree as its both an advantage and disadvantage. On ships with Commander Tactical station it works out better with how it is right now. But it is frustrating to be in a Eng cruiser limited to Beta 2 mine fields when the in game character description says Eng are the best for mine.
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,301 Arc User
    The new rep seems to have a high focus on mines which i think is interesting, but also very situational.
    As someone who also enjoys torpedo builds i will give this combo a try and see if i can propose some improvements.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    Tricobalt Mines broken cooldowns with Tricobalt torpedoes, twice as long delay before being armed, worse DPS/damage then Quantums volleys and they damage your own ship more often then the enemy. Just don’t use them.
    Tricobalt bombing is life!

    Seriously though, Trics are good vs bosses and not elsewhere. I do have a major love for the tric cluster torpedo. It's basically a free dispersal pattern. but even with actual mines and dispersal patterns I love how th cooldown length of Trics matches the CD of the dispersal pattern skill :p
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,301 Arc User
    Tricobalt Mines broken cooldowns with Tricobalt torpedoes, twice as long delay before being armed, worse DPS/damage then Quantums volleys and they damage your own ship more often then the enemy. Just don’t use them.
    Tricobalt bombing is life!

    Seriously though, Trics are good vs bosses and not elsewhere. I do have a major love for the tric cluster torpedo. It's basically a free dispersal pattern. but even with actual mines and dispersal patterns I love how th cooldown length of Trics matches the CD of the dispersal pattern skill :p

    Trico Cluster in the rear slot.
    Perfect when an alpha is not enough, one overshoots an target or against HurQ who try to hug your behind and explode there.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • tobiashirttobiashirt Member Posts: 630 Arc User
    Couple of questions I don't see answered, or that I might just be overlooking...what would be a good 3rd aft weapon if another mine launcher would have issues? Something to help make a set bonus? Also, what's the opinion on a Briostrys-class carrier as a mine platform? I'd suspect it would be good, having mine-laying pets, plus Intel and command seating.

    Lastly, is there a link you could put up for a build, so I can see the totality of traits/doffs/etc?
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,165 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    tobiashirt wrote: »
    Couple of questions I don't see answered, or that I might just be overlooking...what would be a good 3rd aft weapon if another mine launcher would have issues? Something to help make a set bonus? Also, what's the opinion on a Briostrys-class carrier as a mine platform? I'd suspect it would be good, having mine-laying pets, plus Intel and command seating.

    Lastly, is there a link you could put up for a build, so I can see the totality of traits/doffs/etc?
    Some people like to put a cluster in the rear for when the ship is turning and the front cluster cannot fire. The two sets I recommend both require the use of two energy weapons to get the mine bonus so I tend to put them in the rear. Another alternative is the Terran Task Force weapon as 2 part set boosts projectile damage.

    If you use photon mines then Photonic Arsenal weapons are highly recommended as it gives 28.5% Photon damage, 13% crit chance and 10% crit serv. EDIT: There are other alternative sets that boost plasma, Chroniton e.c.t

    As for a link I have been asked that before but I have never managed to get the build website working. For some reason I never receive the email to setup an account.

    Lastly I have never flown the Briostrys carrier. At a glance it looks like it has the key parts needed to work.
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,301 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,165 Arc User
    questerius wrote: »
    Thanks, it let me sign up. I will try and get a build or two up this week. It wont be today as its getting late for me.

    What I have not worked out yet is x4 critD or x4DMG when at around 20% crit? My test runs are not coming out conclusively one way or another. What does everyone else think?
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,165 Arc User
    The latest patch notes have some major mine boosts.

    “Intrusive Energy Redirection:
     Duration increased from 10 seconds to 15 seconds
     Base power drained from targets increased from 10 to 25
     Base power gained changed from 5-21 to 10-25 based on targets hit
     Bonus weapon damage is now 10% per target hit from 5%
     Bonus weapon damage now affects all weapons

    “The Mine shared cooldown has been decreased to 3 seconds from 5.”

    “The Console - Universal - Ordnance Accelerator now decreases the Mine shared cooldown by 1.5 seconds from 1.”
  • rykus83rykus83 Member Posts: 124 Arc User
    the Vorgon Ytijara Dreadnought Cruiser looks like it would be a good mine boat if the 3/5 weapon loadout is right.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,165 Arc User
    rykus83 wrote: »
    the Vorgon Ytijara Dreadnought Cruiser looks like it would be a good mine boat if the 3/5 weapon loadout is right.
    I am struggling to work out how to make it a good mine boat. The recent patch has massively improved mines which I will shortly edit into my first post. It’s now worthwhile to fit 3 mine launchers and possibly 4.

    • “The Mine shared cooldown has been decreased to 3 seconds from 5.
    • The Console - Universal - Ordnance Accelerator now decreases the Mine shared cooldown by 1.5 seconds from 1.“


    But even with the patch changes above and the Ordnance Accelerator fitted I ran into problems. With 3 quantum mine launchers I am just hitting global cooldown where every so often one launcher would delay another launcher from firing. It’s still worth fitting 3 though. With 4 quantum launchers hitting global cooldown is common and I can only guess at how much worse 5 launcher will be. It’s worth testing once we get the ship but I am not convinced 5 launchers are going to work very well. The other problem is the ship is lacking access to the best mine bridge powers and doesn’t have access to the specialty seats that benefit mines. The problem is also worse if you use the faster mines like Plasma, Photon or bio.

    It might work if you do something like x2 quantum, Concentrated Tachyon, Nukara and Tractor Beam but I am not sure that's a good idea.
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,301 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    rykus83 wrote: »
    the Vorgon Ytijara Dreadnought Cruiser looks like it would be a good mine boat if the 3/5 weapon loadout is right.
    I am struggling to work out how to make it a good mine boat. The recent patch has massively improved mines which I will shortly edit into my first post. It’s now worthwhile to fit 3 mine launchers and possibly 4.

    • “The Mine shared cooldown has been decreased to 3 seconds from 5.
    • The Console - Universal - Ordnance Accelerator now decreases the Mine shared cooldown by 1.5 seconds from 1.“


    But even with the patch changes above and the Ordnance Accelerator fitted I ran into problems. With 3 quantum mine launchers I am just hitting global cooldown where every so often one launcher would delay another launcher from firing. It’s still worth fitting 3 though. With 4 quantum launchers hitting global cooldown is common and I can only guess at how much worse 5 launcher will be. It’s worth testing once we get the ship but I am not convinced 5 launchers are going to work very well. The other problem is the ship is lacking access to the best mine bridge powers and doesn’t have access to the specialty seats that benefit mines. The problem is also worse if you use the faster mines like Plasma, Photon or bio.

    It might work if you do something like x2 quantum, Concentrated Tachyon, Nukara and Tractor Beam but I am not sure that's a good idea.

    It has Lieutenant Commander Universal/Temporal so that fixes the access to a good mine deployment.

    Nukara and strategist sets work really good together. 2 Tetryon omni in the rear, nukara and strategist mines and Trico cluster or Transphasic cluster depending on preference.

    It is also possible to add the gamma set and ignore the Tetryon damage consoles for a rear firing polaron torpedo and 3-piece deep space mine.

    Without testing it is difficult to assess how those sets work together. I'm partial for a trico cluster in the rear due to the disabling effect of the explosion, but it's a spike build and much of the mine builds are focused on a more sustained damage output.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,301 Arc User
    Adding link for new gamma set for good measure:
    https://sto.gamepedia.com/Task_Force_Ordinances#Set_powers

    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,165 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    questerius wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    rykus83 wrote: »
    the Vorgon Ytijara Dreadnought Cruiser looks like it would be a good mine boat if the 3/5 weapon loadout is right.
    I am struggling to work out how to make it a good mine boat. The recent patch has massively improved mines which I will shortly edit into my first post. It’s now worthwhile to fit 3 mine launchers and possibly 4.

    • “The Mine shared cooldown has been decreased to 3 seconds from 5.
    • The Console - Universal - Ordnance Accelerator now decreases the Mine shared cooldown by 1.5 seconds from 1.“


    But even with the patch changes above and the Ordnance Accelerator fitted I ran into problems. With 3 quantum mine launchers I am just hitting global cooldown where every so often one launcher would delay another launcher from firing. It’s still worth fitting 3 though. With 4 quantum launchers hitting global cooldown is common and I can only guess at how much worse 5 launcher will be. It’s worth testing once we get the ship but I am not convinced 5 launchers are going to work very well. The other problem is the ship is lacking access to the best mine bridge powers and doesn’t have access to the specialty seats that benefit mines. The problem is also worse if you use the faster mines like Plasma, Photon or bio.

    It might work if you do something like x2 quantum, Concentrated Tachyon, Nukara and Tractor Beam but I am not sure that's a good idea.

    It has Lieutenant Commander Universal/Temporal so that fixes the access to a good mine deployment.

    Nukara and strategist sets work really good together. 2 Tetryon omni in the rear, nukara and strategist mines and Trico cluster or Transphasic cluster depending on preference.

    It is also possible to add the gamma set and ignore the Tetryon damage consoles for a rear firing polaron torpedo and 3-piece deep space mine.

    Without testing it is difficult to assess how those sets work together. I'm partial for a trico cluster in the rear due to the disabling effect of the explosion, but it's a spike build and much of the mine builds are focused on a more sustained damage output.
    Lieutenant Commander doesn’t give you access to the top mine powers or let you do the good mine combos. As far as I am aware none of the Temporal skills benefit mines. As a mine layer you most likely want Intel or Command seating and access to Alpha or Beta 3. It can for sure use mines but I expect it will be average at best. Not a choice if you are looking to build a heavy focused mine layer boat. It looks to me to be more a ship to use mines as a secondary weapon.

  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,301 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    questerius wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    rykus83 wrote: »
    the Vorgon Ytijara Dreadnought Cruiser looks like it would be a good mine boat if the 3/5 weapon loadout is right.
    I am struggling to work out how to make it a good mine boat. The recent patch has massively improved mines which I will shortly edit into my first post. It’s now worthwhile to fit 3 mine launchers and possibly 4.

    • “The Mine shared cooldown has been decreased to 3 seconds from 5.
    • The Console - Universal - Ordnance Accelerator now decreases the Mine shared cooldown by 1.5 seconds from 1.“


    But even with the patch changes above and the Ordnance Accelerator fitted I ran into problems. With 3 quantum mine launchers I am just hitting global cooldown where every so often one launcher would delay another launcher from firing. It’s still worth fitting 3 though. With 4 quantum launchers hitting global cooldown is common and I can only guess at how much worse 5 launcher will be. It’s worth testing once we get the ship but I am not convinced 5 launchers are going to work very well. The other problem is the ship is lacking access to the best mine bridge powers and doesn’t have access to the specialty seats that benefit mines. The problem is also worse if you use the faster mines like Plasma, Photon or bio.

    It might work if you do something like x2 quantum, Concentrated Tachyon, Nukara and Tractor Beam but I am not sure that's a good idea.

    It has Lieutenant Commander Universal/Temporal so that fixes the access to a good mine deployment.

    Nukara and strategist sets work really good together. 2 Tetryon omni in the rear, nukara and strategist mines and Trico cluster or Transphasic cluster depending on preference.

    It is also possible to add the gamma set and ignore the Tetryon damage consoles for a rear firing polaron torpedo and 3-piece deep space mine.

    Without testing it is difficult to assess how those sets work together. I'm partial for a trico cluster in the rear due to the disabling effect of the explosion, but it's a spike build and much of the mine builds are focused on a more sustained damage output.
    Lieutenant Commander doesn’t give you access to the top mine powers or let you do the good mine combos. As far as I am aware none of the Temporal skills benefit mines. As a mine layer you most likely want Intel or Command seating and access to Alpha or Beta 3. It can for sure use mines but I expect it will be average at best. Not a choice if you are looking to build a heavy focused mine layer boat. It looks to me to be more a ship to use mines as a secondary weapon.

    It's a universal slot and thus it gives access to https://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Dispersal_Pattern_Alpha
    It may not be the top end, but it is useful.

    Temporal has https://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Chronometric_Inversion_Field and https://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Gravimetric_Conversion both of which have a lot of potential for mine builds.

    There's also a Lieutenant Commander Science for either a GW or Reverse TBR. Charged Particle Burst for when the foes are bunched together.It is possible that one of the other vogon ships will perform better as mine layer, but the basic framework for a decent mine layer is available. If it actually works remains to be seen till tested.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,723 Arc User
    For those who got it, the Breen Chel Boalg is a very good 'free' platform for minelaying builds - particularly transphasics with its ability to mount dual cluster launchers front and back. With a Cmdr Tac, Lt.Cmdr Intel, and Lt.Cmdr Universal, you've got room for a lot of nasty synergy.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,165 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    tobiashirt wrote: »
    Couple of questions I don't see answered, or that I might just be overlooking...what would be a good 3rd aft weapon if another mine launcher would have issues? Something to help make a set bonus? Also, what's the opinion on a Briostrys-class carrier as a mine platform? I'd suspect it would be good, having mine-laying pets, plus Intel and command seating.

    Lastly, is there a link you could put up for a build, so I can see the totality of traits/doffs/etc?
    https://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/a8ed984fa7386e6571ec2d14955e0256
    Its missing the energy weapon from the Task Force set as I have not unlocked it yet.

    Plus updated guide to mention best doffs.
    Post edited by pottsey5g on
  • rykus83rykus83 Member Posts: 124 Arc User
    what deflector impuse and warpcore you using there blank on the skill planner? and what do you suggest in place of the 3 lobi store consoles?
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,165 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    rykus83 wrote: »
    what deflector impuse and warpcore you using there blank on the skill planner? and what do you suggest in place of the 3 lobi store consoles?
    Gamma Synergistic Set although I have yet to unlock the shield. The deflector would be better as a colony deflector the one that boosts crit. I use the gamma deflector as it boosts my hanger pets and the rest of the team. The colony deflector would provide a bigger boost to your own ship.

    EDIT: Perhaps some more tank. Some extra hull resistance consoles or SIF to boost hull heals wouldn't hurt.

  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,165 Arc User
    rykus83 wrote: »
    what deflector impuse and warpcore you using there blank on the skill planner? and what do you suggest in place of the 3 lobi store consoles?
    Are you going full mine layer? If not and its a hybrid setup with torpedoes something like colony deflector with x2 adapted macro would work. This gives less mine damage, more torpedo damage. Overall it works out better on a hybrid build.
  • rykus83rykus83 Member Posts: 124 Arc User
    anyone know what other ships have a commander tactical, and Lieutenant Commander Engineering Command I know theres the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier [T6] is there others?
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,165 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    rykus83 wrote: »
    anyone know what other ships have a commander tactical, and Lieutenant Commander Engineering Command I know theres the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier [T6] is there others?
    Its been a few years since I used them, I think the Chimera Heavy Destroyer & Manticore Heavy Destroyer had those slots?
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    rykus83 wrote: »
    anyone know what other ships have a commander tactical, and Lieutenant Commander Engineering Command I know theres the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier [T6] is there others?
    Its been a few years since I used them, I think the Chimera Heavy Destroyer & Manticore Heavy Destroyer had those slots?

    Yep, the T6 vet ships have that. The T6 Scimitar variants also come to mind.
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  • rykus83rykus83 Member Posts: 124 Arc User
    would the Jem'hadar Vanguard Dreadnought or the Vorgon Ytijara Dreadnought Cruiser be a fine replacement I know that they wont have the same bof seating the jem'hadar has lt.cmdr command seating at least were the Vorgon has Lt.cmdr Universal/Temporal seat. With the Vorgon Ytijara what would you put on the 3 front and 5 rear?
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,165 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    rykus83 wrote: »
    would the Jem'hadar Vanguard Dreadnought or the Vorgon Ytijara Dreadnought Cruiser be a fine replacement I know that they wont have the same bof seating the jem'hadar has lt.cmdr command seating at least were the Vorgon has Lt.cmdr Universal/Temporal seat. With the Vorgon Ytijara what would you put on the 3 front and 5 rear?
    So far I have not managed to come up with anything but below average mine layer builds for the Vorgon Ytijara Dreadnought Cruiser. Not seen anyone else come up with a decent build either. It really doesn’t make a good mine layer boat as it has a poor ship slot layout for mines and limited tactical slots both console and bridge powers along with the Temporal seat is not very good for mines either. It can be made to work but I expect it will be below average as a mine boat.

    The Jem'Hadar Vanguard Dreadnought Cruiser is better as you have a more suitable command seat as command benefits mines unlike Temporal which doesn’t really help. You also have access to x2 Lt.cmdr tac slots so can build in more useful mine combos.

    The Jem'Hadar Light Battlecruiser could be another possible option for you. It has a really nice tactical slots both bridge powers and console slots for mines while still having command Engineering. Along with the Intelligence seat which benefit mines via Kinetic Magnet. EDIT: Might just give this ship a go myself tomorrow as it looks like it could be one of, if not the the top mine layer ships in game. Both amazing for mines while having a strong tank.

  • rykus83rykus83 Member Posts: 124 Arc User
    with your build what are you setting your power levels at.
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