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TNG season 1 thoughts

markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
So, instead of trying to discuss it as a whole, let's try breaking it down by episode.

Encounter at Farpoint: the Bandi and space jellyfish were a weird sci-fi thing, but entertaining.
Naked Now: why???? What part of this plot makes any sense?
Code of Honor: this episode is infamous for good reason.
The Last Outpost: I LOVED the T'Kon portal guardian.
Where no one has gone before: multiple levels of WTF!?!?!? As a story it's rather entertaining, but in terms of a rational narrative? oy....
Lonely Among Us: I loved the plot with the Anticans and Selay. the weird energy creature though... one of many seen in TNG, but it was ok.
Justice: yeah... I really wonder who built that stupid Edo guardian. It's nice that they get free terraforming, but the guardian's rules are bizarre. as a sci-fi piece on an alien civilization it works quite well.
The Battle: Whoo we learn about Picard's past! Weird but good episode.
Hide and Q: it's a Q episode, but one of the best of those. I especially loved the part where Q makes himself look like Data, since it's John de Lancie wearing the Data makeup. Also we get to see Wesley get stabbed.
Haven: this is one of those episodes that basically has two separate plots about nearly unrelated things. The Troi story is annoying and dumb, but the Tarellian story is pretty cool. It's interesting that the planet the Tarellians approach demands that Enterprise protect them as part of their duties as Starfleet officers.
The big goodbye: it's one of the weird holodeck stories and is kinda... there.
Datalore: it's the episode that explains where Data came from and why he's weird even by Android standards.
Angel One: I love it because it's an alien-of-the-week but NOT a planet of hats.
11001001: Bynars are an interesting race.... and strangely devious... Also Minuet was a fun character as a nerdy sidenote 11001001 is the number 201 and the ascii character 201 is ╔
Too Short a Season: Oh man, while there are some thing that I dislike here, over all it was a great "diplomacy" episode. Until I just looked this up, I'd always thought there were two actors for Jameson, but it was all Clayton Rohner
When the Bough Breaks: one of those weird morality-ish tales about what not to do with advanced tech... I've always felt it odd that the Feds never learned ANY of this race's technical secrets.
Home Soil: great for being an effective use of the truly alien and surreal.
Coming of Age: weird because it's NOT a 2-part ep, but IS setup for a later ep. It's mostly Wesley and academy stuff
Heart of Glory: I've occasionally wondered what the Talarians would do with those Klingons if they were turned over to Talar to be tried for their crimes.
Arsenal of Freedom: The background elements created for this are something I would love to see explored in the future. Although Minosian tech is kinda ridiculous....
Symbiosis, I generally like this, it did a really nice job of exploring an alien civilization and not just seeing a few aliens do stuff. Also, I LOVED the concept for the Ornarans. Who need wrinkly foreheads when you have super-powers?
Skin of Evil: this is perhaps the dumbest super-alien episode ever...
We'll always have Paris: um... another one where science goes HORRIBLY wrong....
Conspiracy: now THIS is an episode that made me really ponder what was going on and want to rewatch it just to see if I'd missed something.
The Neutral Zone: Theere were bad part, boring parts and dumb parts, but I love this one simply for the scene where Offenhouse says, "They haven't got a clue! They're hoping you know, but they're too arrogant to ask." the look on Picard's face is enough to make the episode worth watching.

So what did you guys think?
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Comments

  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,598 Arc User
    I found "Angel One" offensively sexist. And Wil Wheaton said that "Justice" was the episode when he learned just how much the writers hated his character - and possibly Wil himself, by extension.

    Overall, if the Internet were as big a deal back then as it is now, TNG probably wouldn't have gotten a second season.
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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,950 Arc User
    "Pretentious Binary Title" was a garbage episode: the Bynars' reasoning for hijacking the Enterprise is utter nonsense. For crying out loud, if the Bynars are indeed somehow the only people who knows how the computer on the GCS works, that makes their continued survival a national security matter for the Federation. Never mind that if they aren't members and therefore for whatever stupid TNG Prime Directive-abusing reason can't take their problem to the Federation Council, why the hell would the Federation have entrusted such a realistically highly classified system as their top capital ship's primary computer to them to program in the first place?
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    Yeah, Angel One's civilization was one of the weird parody-ish aliens where certain aspects of their civ really make no sense at all.

    Thinking about it again, Justice feels like it was trying to be social commentary of some sort, but was too exaggerated to actually make a point.

    As for why writers hated Wesley? apparently the character would have never been important if not for Gene insisting on it...

    Yeah, that aspect of the Bynars was really weird. The writers didn't bother to properly define their relationship with the Federation. They're being trusted with something you'd expect to be done by Starfleet personnel. but they apparently aren't, and may or may not be a member. Honestly the race concept feels unfinished.
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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,950 Arc User
    A lot of the problems with early TNG can be traced either to Roddenberry or his attorney.

    Roddenberry had kind of the same problem as George Lucas after TESB. ANH was as good as it was in large part because Lucas was so terrified of his magnum opus failing that he got second opinions on EVERYTHING (for example, instead of some nonsense involving kaiburr crystals as the MacGuffin, somebody, possibly Spielberg, suggested they use the Death Star plans so they wouldn't need to explain their importance). He got sloppy after two successful films. Roddenberry similarly had spent thirty-odd years with fans gushing over him and not comprehending how much of TOS was the work of Fontana, Coon, etc.

    And then we had the lawyer, I can't remember his name, who among other things insisted that "no crew conflict" meant "they never disagree on anything" instead of "they don't get physical or try to sabotage each other".
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
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    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • lordrezeonlordrezeon Member Posts: 399 Arc User
    Eh season one was a tad bit to pretentious for my tastes. That snobbish sense of self importance that the entire Enterprise crew had early on is a huge turn off. If they had just backed off a bit on that and let the cast act like people it wouldn't have felt so off putting.

    On an episode by episode basis... I think Encounter at Farpoint, The Battle, Hide and Q, Datalore, 11001001, Arsenal of Freedom, and Conspiracy were decent. The rest were pretty poor outings. It is a good thing TNG was being made with syndication in mind or it would have never been given the chance to find its legs.


    Episodes like the 11001001 make you wonder what type of reputation the Federation has in-story that the Bynars didn't trust the Federation enough to simply ask for help. Or why so many colonies in episodes seem to have been set up to get away from the rest of the Federation...
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    To be fair, "no crew conflict" is only bad when taken to extremes. Some of the worst stuff in later TNG was bad because they went too far the other way. Like when Worf killed Duras.

    Realistically the reaction I'd expect of the Feds would have been to find a way to shield the Bynar main computer. It was portrayed in the episode as paranoia when the Bynar guy suggested that the Feds might not have done something to stop the nova from shutting down their computer.
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    I didn't like it.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    I didn't like it.​​
    That was... disappointing.

    Which specific things did you dislike?
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,533 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    I didn't like it.​​
    That was... disappointing.

    Which specific things did you dislike?

    Could be the whole thing. Dislike can be a gut reaction to the entire thing instead of just a few parts of it.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »
    I didn't like it.​​
    That was... disappointing.

    Which specific things did you dislike?
    Could be the whole thing. Dislike can be a gut reaction to the entire thing instead of just a few parts of it.
    Yes, while true, that doesn't make for interesting discussion. :p So what did you personally think of the Bynars?
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    artan42 wrote: »
    I didn't like it.
    That was... disappointing.

    Which specific things did you dislike?

    Fine. I'll allow you to drag some more detail out of me pig-2.gif.

    I believe that how people react to TNG, DS9, VGR, and ENT largely depends on which one they saw first as complainants of VGR or ENT being rehashes of TNG or of DS9 being too different from TNG are meaningless if you've not seen TNG.

    Technically VGR was the first Star Trek series I ever saw (it was on in the afternoons on, Virgin One I think, when I had half days during my GCSEs). However it didn't really stick in my mind so my first conscious choice of series to watch was ENT (this was in 2009 in the lead up to the KT film and ENT would be the only show to be able to tie in I read). After ENT I watched DS9 because the descriptions I'd read sounded more up my ally than the others. Then it was VGR because I remembered having seen it before.

    Finally I got round to watching TNG. the Sci Fy channel was airing it from the start in the new HD Remaster format so I gave it a watch. The Battle, Heart of Glory, Arsenal of Freedom, Conspiracy, and The Neutral Zone were the only one I remember liking from the first series.

    I'd seen bits and bats of TNG before (mainly episodes to tie in to DS9 or VGR and First Contact, which I saw even before I saw VGR for the first time) and obviously three more 'modern' series and the style of storytelling of most of TNGS1 just struck me as simplistic. Too simplistic to enjoy properly. Plus the characters were godsawful pillocks. VGR and ENT had one up there, their characters were forgettable, you didn't actively dislike them. I'm an atheist and a socialist and even I found Picard and Roddenberry's moralising immensely off-putting.

    Would you like to know more?​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,464 Arc User
    I don't consider it canon
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    Yeah TNG had a bad habit of making alien cultures pale stereotypes. Often it was because the aliens weren't really the focus of the episode. The Bynars, for example, they were integral to the plot, but the episode barely looked at their motives or culture. When the Bough Breaks and Justice are examples of aliens whose culture has been forced on them by some outside force. They were functionally indistinguishable from Humans but were in situations that were alien. But, this shifted focus to the forces governing them and made the episode have even less focus on them as people.
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,533 Arc User
    And TOS had the same issue of making alien cultures into pale stereotypes. When you deal with a show that does the alien of the week trope, there is little point in giving any real depth to an alien race that is never seen again. Just give the recurring alien races like the Klingons and Romulans any real depth while giving the rest a brief synopsis.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    Well, that's what defined my favorite episodes actually. The Vengeance Factor(not S1, but still TNG) was amazingly awesome because we learned more about the Acamarians in one episode than we'd learned about Klingons in, well... all of the episodes prior to that.
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,533 Arc User
    And for every good alien of the week episodes, there is probably 10 poorly written alien of the week episodes.
  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 4,332 Arc User
    Had some good ones, season 1 was ok with me.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    Had some good ones, season 1 was ok with me.
    So which ones did you like most and why? :)
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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,950 Arc User
    That's one of the things I like the most about DS9: the show's stationary nature meant they pretty much had to diversify their aliens or else they'd run out of plots. So the Cardassians aren't all evil military guys, they've also got a culture emphasizing family, and civilians who have to live under the thumb of the evil military guys and want something better. The Bajorans aren't just the Token Religious Species, they have their own internal divisions, whether its over reform versus orthodoxy within the faith, isolationist ultranationalism versus international cooperation, and they even have tribal or ethnic groups that live apart from the main industrialized culture (the Paqu and Navot from "The Storyteller").

    As an aside, I find the Bajorans make excellent counterparts for "red states".
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 4,332 Arc User
    Had some good ones, season 1 was ok with me.
    So which ones did you like most and why? :)
    Had some good ones, season 1 was ok with me.
    So which ones did you like most and why? :)

    Farpoint: First story and there was no real villian
    Naked: Was just funny to see Picard 'drunk'. XD
    Honor: Seeing Lotan get a bit in the TRIBBLE by Karma
    Where no one has gone before: This is one of the more Trekian stories to date
    Outpost: I liked the planet and liked Portal
    Haven: Liked the "petty bickering" and the Tarellerian story (and Wiat was a cutie)
    The Battle: WOoooo, Constellation class :D
    Hide and Q: I would have accepted.
    Lonely: Loved the cloud creature, and those 2 immature races.
    Datalore: Lore and the giant snowflake...and "SHUT UP, WESLEY!" XD
    Big goodbye: Picard trying to have fun
    Angel One: Applies today....power mongers keep a group of people struggling to live, no revolution or status quo change....I see that today, especially in the western world.
    Home Soil: Another good Trekkian story
    Glory: Klingons, nuff said. And to see how the alliance makes some of them feel useless or 'neutered'.
    Arsenal: Fun episode, Vincent Chevelei, and the Echo Papa.
    Symbiosis: Showing how one group of people shamelessly exploits another and LIES to them about it all....happening in the world today.
    Paris: Liked seeing some of Picard's past, the cool idea of time and gravity....I envoy the Dr, seeing another dimension, and come one...the wife was a hottie. :3
    Conspiracy: Loved the idea of these LITTLE guys nearly taking over....and Remmick going BOOM. Plus this one got a warning label in the UK XD
    Neutral Zone: Shows how messed up 20th/21st century man is, and loving that neither side did the attacks on the outposts. And showing the arrogant pricks the 2 Romulans were.

    Dunno if that helps or not. I was having a blast, seeing these as an 8 year old kid when these were first one.
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,598 Arc User
    They've got the Enterprise logs about the incident - they're probably listening for the signal.
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  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 4,332 Arc User
    Was just watching S1 last week.

    Where no one has gone before, still best S1 episode ever. Love it when the Enterprise first speeds out of control. =3

    Will Starfleet dismiss the 51 year old subspace message sent from Enterprise or will they record it as the first transmission from a Starfleet vessel from M33?

    Hasn't reached the Milky Way yet.



    I'm sure Picard later told SF, "When you get a message from me about the Enterprise being in another galaxy, don't worry, we took care of it."

    That one is one of my fav Trek episodes ever. That is what Trek is to me.
    It's also based loosely on the TOS novel, "Wounded Sky". And I loved what mama Picard said...,"is it the end? Or is it the BEGINNING?"

    Also, loved those old TNG music scores <3















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