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PSA: Time To Give PVP A Try

I keep reading things like “PVP is dead” or PVE-only players complaining about attempts to balance items/abilities because “no one plays PVP,” or “the 99% are getting screwed by the 1%.” Others, usually blatant trolls in these forums, complain about toxic players, and the same people who whine about broken abilities making PVP impossible are usually the FaW warriors who insult your mother when you turn the wrong way at the start of Infected Space.

Causal Forum Reader, don’t buy into the hatred for PVP spewed by the few players represented in this forum. Their bitterness and vitriol is not representative of reality. Somewhere, maybe not too long ago, these haters got their egos checked in the battle zone or arena and decided to try to ruin it for everyone. It’s really as simple as that. For some people, not performing well is only a reflection on others, never themselves, and they will do anything and everything they can to ruin the fun if they can’t be the center of attention. I have found that this holds true in-game as much as in the real world.

For the past week, I have seen up to five full instances filled in Ker’rat daily. Dozens of FED players are battling dozens of KDF players in epic battles, even as you read this. ROMS, you’re playing both sides, befitting your species, but I digress.

Several fleets are now putting together teams and facing each other in arena matches. And PVPers are even breaking out their wallets (see “Revenue,” Cryptic) or cashing in dilithium to buy the new shiny traits and ships. With some awesome new leadership my KDF fleet (House of Beautiful Orions) is now rocking 30+ players online at a time, making it easier and easier to punish the federation for its policies of homogenization and assimilation in the Beta Quadrant.

Instead of running the same missions over and over, you could be defending the federation’s borders or the Klingon Empire’s honor by taking the fight to the most intelligent, adaptive, and original enemies anywhere: other players.

Meanwhile, it remains nigh impossible to get FIVE people together for the vast majority of PVE queues, and with content being released in a trickle as the Cryptic staff works on the coming expansion, more and more people are taking a serious look at PVP as a way to enjoy the endgame. If you have found that the eternal luster of the Space Barbie wanes, and if the NPCs are no longer a challenge, I highly recommend giving PVP a shot.

Yes, you are going to get owned at first. To learn how to fight other players, I diligently flew to Ker’rat and asked for a sparring partner each week for a year, tweaking one console or ability or trait each time I failed until I had something viable. It may not take you as long as all that, especially if you research builds online, but be prepared to learn a new play style. Don’t worry, most PVP builds still perform in PVE. However, and unlike PVE, there is no “one build to rule them all,” and DPS is only one consideration among many.

Another good thing about PVP is that the “meta” changes over time and every player must keep growing. The mechanics are different in that more of them are actually useful, and if you truly love the game, you will find among PVP players the most knowledgeable and resourceful ship builders anywhere. I’m talking legit research and mathematics. You can build tanks, escorts, sci wizards, and unique combinations that suit your play style. Just join a fleet that PVPs and you will find help, because PVP fleets want their members to DOMINATE, not just DONATE.

Think about it. A PVE-centered playing experience has only one logical conclusion: amassing resources, usually at the expense of real world time and money, only so that it can be spent in a vacuum. If you are not playing with and against other players then you are unlocking ships, traits, and holdings that have no value beyond aesthetics. Why bother with an MMO?

Some will say the cost of entry is too high, that you have to purchase way too many traits and ships to be competitive, but there are entire factions of PVP players who refuse to use certain abilities and who are regarded as some of the most formidable in the game. It could be your niche, too. It doesn’t cost anymore to build a good PVP build than it does a PVE-DPS build, or a Space Barbie, or a themed ship. Odds are, if you’ve reached endgame, you’ve already amassed 3/4 of what you need. There have been plenty of posts explaining how to get your gear without opening your wallet. PVP can also be F2P if you research before buying, anyone who says otherwise doesn’t know how to grind.

PVP is the true endgame. You just need to approach it the way you approached STO all those years ago, with curiosity and a willingness to learn. It’s the best thing going, and despite claims in these forums to the contrary, today’s resurgent PVP population means it is here to stay.
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Comments

  • orangenee#2931 orangenee Member Posts: 837 Arc User
    That's a hell of an advertisement. If it's any consolation I was never going to try PVP anyway.
  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    I gave up on PvP (any form of it - STO, ESO, WoW, Overwatch, PUBG, DotA, Fortnite, all of it) years ago. Can't stand it. I have little interest in the 'competitive' mindset, it's not my goal or interest in life.

    (Not really 'competitive' in PvE, either. I don't care that some other guild World Firsted a raid before me, or try to pursue high 'leaderboard' scores in Elder Scrolls Online's veteran dungeons, either. As others have said on this forum "Space Barbie is the true endgame" :D )
  • vampeiyrevampeiyre Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    PVP IS the traditional endgame of MMOs, and has been since the first one, Ultima Online.

    If you don't like PVP, that's fine, don't participate. But as the OP said, it's far from dead. I go to Ker'rat every day, and there is always fun to be had for as many hours as you want to play; Less so if I'm one of two Feds versus 5-10 HOBOs, but sometimes thems the breaks.

    It seems to be a rude awakening for DPS spreadsheet-makers to show up and get instagibbed, and learn they really have no idea how to actually PLAY the game, but like anything else in life, you get better over time with practice.

    I somehow predict the usual whiners will show up to say PVP sucks (because they're bad at it).
    "I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
  • xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,114 Arc User
    Causal Forum Reader, don’t buy into the hatred for PVP spewed by the few players represented in this forum. Their bitterness and vitriol is not representative of reality. Somewhere, maybe not too long ago, these haters got their egos checked in the battle zone or arena and decided to try to ruin it for everyone. It’s really as simple as that. For some people, not performing well is only a reflection on others, never themselves, and they will do anything and everything they can to ruin the fun if they can’t be the center of attention. I have found that this holds true in-game as much as in the real world.

    So people who don't PvP are evil.
    Think about it. A PVE-centered playing experience has only one logical conclusion: amassing resources, usually at the expense of real world time and money, only so that it can be spent in a vacuum. If you are not playing with and against other players then you are unlocking ships, traits, and holdings that have no value beyond aesthetics. Why bother with an MMO?

    Well, because people may like amassing resources and changing aesthetics? As for ships having no value: different styles of playing with them may also be enjoyable beyond the need of being the best.

    I am a very competitive player. I have played tournament chess for about 35 years now. I regularily enter other tournaments for board games and have organized quite a few. I am a geocacher as well, and my friends and I often place bets on who will reach a milestone or a certain kind of quality first. I enjoy that.

    However, I don't enjoy competitive gaming online as much. I do some, especially again board games, but if the platform becomes too large you lose control over whom you are competing with. And while the majority of players may be (and are) nice enough, I just met too many who are not sharing my idea of fun and making it unenjoyable for me to participate. I tried open PvP in STO, met some huge douchebags, and decided not to continue down this road. I will do so against people I know, from my fleet as an example, though.

    I am also not as competitive in general when it comes to computer games for whatever reason. I like me some challenge, but I am not interested in becoming the best, or even very good, necessarily. I don't need to beat Civilization on deity when I can have fun on king. I don't know why this is, but I think for me computer games are more a distraction where I want some story to happen, and not a place where I want to spend too much energy to hone my skills.

    Why an MMO then? Well, I would play a Star Trek RPG if it were solo. This just happens to be an MMO. I am not really out to play MMOs, I tried a few (very few) and am only playing this one. There are some aspects of it being an MMO I like, but it really isn't necessary.

    But if all of that makes me bitter and vitriolic, devoid of a sense of reality, a hater with a miniscule ego who wants to ruin your fun because I cannot understand how it is all my fault, and I am also the same in the real world, well, there you go:

    Your fun be ruined.
    My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    PVP IS the traditional endgame of MMOs, and has been since the first one, Ultima Online.

    Even all those "95% PvE game with a crappy PvP minigame duct-taped to the side" MMOs, which honestly have seemed to be the majority to me? They toss some PvP in, just so that they can attract a few more potential players (who then seem to think that they're the central focus of the game.)


    Personally, I've always wondered why all these Serious PvP Players™ bother with the unbalanced junk PvP that exists in MMOs, rather than playing actual competitive games that are designed for & around PvP.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,501 Arc User
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    PVP IS the traditional endgame of MMOs, and has been since the first one, Ultima Online.

    Actually, raiding is far more prevalent as endgame than PVP in MMOs. PVP IS NOT "the traditional endgame."

    Also, PVP existing in UO in no way meant it was the most important part to the majority of players.

    In STO, "Space Barbie is the real endgame" though "climbing the DPS charts" is probably second, followed by RP-ing, then chatting, then gold farming, then an interactive screen saver, then maybe PVP.

  • tyler002tyler002 Member Posts: 1,586 Arc User
    Given all the complaints I see about PvPers being a big part of the reason we can't have any good stuff and that the stuff we do get is usually ruined for almost everyone else to satisfy their nerf fetish, PvPers apparently contributed to their own downfall.

    Should probably work to fix the PvPer mindset before trying to get more people to join.
    tumblr_p7auh1JPC61qfr6udo4_500.gif
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    Posting an OP full of hate and condescention at people who disagree with you is an excellent way to demonstrate that the complaints of "toxic players" in the PvP community are just "blatant trolls" who are "not representative of reality." [/sarcasm]

    As far as I'm concerned, PvP is a waste of time. Check back if Cryptic ever puts up decent rewards.

    Space Barbie is the true endgame.
  • vampeiyrevampeiyre Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    PVP IS the traditional endgame of MMOs, and has been since the first one, Ultima Online.

    Actually, raiding is far more prevalent as endgame than PVP in MMOs. PVP IS NOT "the traditional endgame."

    Also, PVP existing in UO in no way meant it was the most important part to the majority of players.

    In STO, "Space Barbie is the real endgame" though "climbing the DPS charts" is probably second, followed by RP-ing, then chatting, then gold farming, then an interactive screen saver, then maybe PVP.

    Raiding has become a big thing since WOW McDonald's-ized MMOs.

    In no way am I here to tell people what part of the game to enjoy. I wouldn't tell anyone to PVP if they hated it, or just wanted an easier, more casual experience. I am saying PVP is the traditional MMO endgame since the beginnings of the genre, that is an objective fact whether one subjectively likes to PVP or not. PVP is very much not dead in STO, it's generally around whenever you want it in Ker'rat, generally for as long as you want it, objective fact.

    As a comparison, I see people who like cats generally say "I like cats, dogs are fun too", and tend to see dog fanciers say "Cats are worthless, and evil, they killed my family!!!11!!one11!!". It generally seems the same to me for PVP versus PVE people.

    I would further say for illustrative purposes, you can't pick up a guitar on day one and play like whatever guitar hero you like. You can't pick up a sport and play like a legend on day one. PVP is the same.

    I will say, if you get decent at PVP, you will be practically god-like at PVE, but the reverse is not true, and I think this is where people get frustrated quickly

    Do what you like. PVP is more fun than I think a lot of people realize, and hateful negative people are always the most vocal in life, which is what I think the OP was alluding to. PVP is much harder, but that does make it ultimately more rewarding when you become good at it.

    I'm very big into space barbie and PVE as well. I wish featured episodes came out more often. For me, PVP stays fresh and is always entertaining when I'm tired of the same queues and replaying favorite episodes because its never the same game twice. Even the same opponents switch to different ships with different builds which adds even more variety.

    PVP is not easy, and not for people who don't like a challenge. If someone wants to interpret that as an insult, I suppose said person can be my guest, but that's certainly not my intention with this post or any others in regards to this subject.
    "I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    Hmmm.... HOBO is back?
    Gotta love it. Go kick some Fed asses.

    You got a You Tube channel up yet? It's OK I will google.
    I do not PvP ... but have fun with it the revival (if you all dare). :)
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • nimbullnimbull Member Posts: 1,564 Arc User
    PvP ya say?

    nope.gif
    Green people don't have to be.... little.
  • vampeiyrevampeiyre Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    nimbull wrote: »
    PvP ya say?

    nope.gif

    This thread was worth it just to see that GIF, IMHO.
    "I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
  • xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,114 Arc User
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    nimbull wrote: »
    PvP ya say?

    nope.gif

    This thread was worth it just to see that GIF, IMHO.

    I think we can agree on that.
    My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    PVP IS the traditional endgame of MMOs, and has been since the first one, Ultima Online.

    Actually, raiding is far more prevalent as endgame than PVP in MMOs. PVP IS NOT "the traditional endgame."

    Also, PVP existing in UO in no way meant it was the most important part to the majority of players.

    In STO, "Space Barbie is the real endgame" though "climbing the DPS charts" is probably second, followed by RP-ing, then chatting, then gold farming, then an interactive screen saver, then maybe PVP.

    Raiding has become a big thing since WOW McDonald's-ized MMOs.

    In no way am I here to tell people what part of the game to enjoy. I wouldn't tell anyone to PVP if they hated it, or just wanted an easier, more casual experience. I am saying PVP is the traditional MMO endgame since the beginnings of the genre...

    Hmm, that makes me wonder.... did Everquest have a big PvP scene? Because when I think of "the beginning of the genre", I think of UO and Everquest. But, then, I didn't MMO back then, so I'm not terribly familiar with the pre-WoW scene.


    (Been gaming since 1980 but WoW, vanilla-thru cata, was my first MMO. Other ones I put time into include City of Heroes, STO, Neverwinter, SWTOR, Secret World, ESO, and TERA. Poked around in a variety of eastern f2p's - Sword of the New World, Vindictus, Dragon Nest, Forsaken World, etc - but nothing serious)

  • ashstorm1ashstorm1 Member Posts: 679 Arc User
    Good for you if you enjoy PvP.
  • robby0321robby0321 Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    I’m going to start out by saying I get both sides of this argument. Being a player that enjoys both pvp and pve let me first say it’s not fair to say either is the best gameplay or not. I think you have to understand the game to do either. And saying that the flaw users are wrong or need to come into kerrat with their pve dips league build and saying that they don’t understand mechanics is just plane stupid. To get high dips you have to have a good working knowledge to get the numbers they get it takes perfect team play. Now on the other side of the coin making a pvp ship also takes good working knowledge of mechanics to fight other Captians in space or ground combat. Getting the right amount of resistance and damage on the ship is tricky. But looking down on either is just plain stupid, the problem with pvp and pave right now is the cost to get the power creep lockbox items to be able to at the top of either. The cost of doffs lockbox traits ship traits lobo consoles having the right mods on weapons is just to much in terms of real life money or in game resources. I added up on console what I would need to get my ship in pvp order again and the cost just for ships was 3.5 billion ec. That’s not counting doffs and lobi gear. Both pvp and pve players have to understand the average players isn’t going to spend this much on an 8 year old dying game. So just my take on the op’s post
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,973 Community Moderator
    edited February 2018
    Yeeeeeaaaaa...

    No.

    As it stands PvP is not about skill so much as it is about the spike DPS to the point NOTHING a player can do can survive a single pass. All the top PvPers are going to be running vape builds designed for maximum carnage in the shortest amount of time. It gets worse if they're in Pilot Escorts as they can actually zip around more, and even worse if its a Redshirt Romulan with a full set of Superior Romulan Operative Boffs.

    Despite what some may say... the majority of players on the receiving end are going to explode before they can even blink.

    That is not fun. That is rage inducing.
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    Because they ain't real PvP players. They don't want a fair fight. They don't want a challenge. They want to curb stomp the noobs.

    I'd have to agree with this. This is basically how friendly STO's PvP community is to those who aren't min/maxing every last decimal point of stats. PvP may be open for all, but it by no means is forgiving for all. For example, I've got a decent PvE build. I can take on pretty much any enemy type in the story and come out on top. I build balanced, and I prepare for just about anything. Breen? Ok, bring it on. Vaadwaur? Lets go. Iconians? A challenge with their disable spam but lets do it. Terrans? I love a challenge.
    Stick me in a PvP with a vaper, on the other hand... I might as well not even bother touching the keyboard as by the time I blink, I've already been dead for 5 seconds. Basically... I get 360 no scoped.

    In a PvP setting, I don't want to vape someone and wait for them to respawn so I can vape 'em again. I want an actual battle. Something that really has you thinking. I want to EARN that win. I don't want it handed to me on a silver platter by virtue of being able to vaporize anything just by looking at it. The most fun I had in Ker'rat was not vaping other players. It was a random duel between my Assault Cruiser and the opponent's Negh'var (if I remember correctly). It didn't come down to sheer DPS, it was skill, maneuvering, and timing of abilities. We were evenly matched. One wrong move could swing the battle in favor of one side or the other. THAT was fun.

    PvP is not "the true endgame". Its a fascet of the game that people can go into and compete with each other. True Endgame is being able to take on high end PvE stuff.

    The BEST PvP is when both sides have a chance, and victory is not a guarantee. As it stands now... that will never happen outside of a prearranged meet. Open PvP and any public queues that by some miracle actually pop are the domain of the one shot kill. Whoever Shoots First Wins. And generally that will ALWAYS be the vaper. Currently the only way to ruin a vaper's day is with massive amounts of Science, as even if a vaper can kill a top end science build... that science build will shortly get its revenge from beyond the grave if they were able to respond.

    edit: don't you dare eat my post forum monster.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    TIME TO GIVE PVP A TRY

    no...

    extra words to make minimum count to post
  • usskentuckyusskentucky Member Posts: 402 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    If I want to be serious about a game, I will play a REAL MMO...not this one.

    Accusing me of insults, yet comes to the official forums to say STO isn't a real game.
    I doubt that those of us who have intentionally avoided it for years in this and other MMOs, are suddenly going to switch directions.

    Fair enough. Nobody is saying you have to do anything. But I have a right to come and promote an aspect of the game I care about without being called names. Can anyone actually say that PVP-related posts get a fair treatment in these forums? Why would a new player attempt PVP when all he or she reads is negative.
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    I somehow predict the usual whiners will show up to say PVP sucks (because they're bad at it).

    Sure seems that way.
    tyler002 wrote: »
    Should probably work to fix the PvPer mindset before trying to get more people to join.

    Obviously, the devs disagree with you or they would just let everything be OP. PVPers are an important part of this game's ecosystem because they are the first to try new equipment in unique combinations, resulting in better challenges in PVE content. You are welcome.
    warpangel wrote: »
    Posting an OP full of hate and condescention at people who disagree with you is an excellent way to demonstrate that the complaints of "toxic players" in the PvP community are just "blatant trolls" who are "not representative of reality." [/sarcasm]

    As far as I'm concerned, PvP is a waste of time. Check back if Cryptic ever puts up decent rewards.

    Space Barbie is the true endgame.

    If you read my post as "full of hate and condescension" then you have thin skin and an inability to view the world with objectivity. Compared to the insults and calls to "end PVP" that follow any post even tangentially related to PVP in these forums I would say that I took it pretty easy on you and your brethren. Space Barbie can be fun, but I came here to share an alternative point of view.
    valoreah wrote: »
    Meh, it's fun once and a while. Not something I really want to do all the time though.

    You are more than welcome to join us in Ker'rat anytime you are feeling up to it.
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    See, we can agree on something :) .

    Coldnapalm, re-read the part about "blatant trolls." Hold the words in your mind's eye as you get up from your computer and walk to this mirror. Look in the mirror.

    vampeiyre wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    PVP IS the traditional endgame of MMOs, and has been since the first one, Ultima Online.

    Actually, raiding is far more prevalent as endgame than PVP in MMOs. PVP IS NOT "the traditional endgame."

    Also, PVP existing in UO in no way meant it was the most important part to the majority of players.

    In STO, "Space Barbie is the real endgame" though "climbing the DPS charts" is probably second, followed by RP-ing, then chatting, then gold farming, then an interactive screen saver, then maybe PVP.
    I'm very big into space barbie and PVE as well. I wish featured episodes came out more often. For me, PVP stays fresh and is always entertaining when I'm tired of the same queues and replaying favorite episodes because its never the same game twice. Even the same opponents switch to different ships with different builds which adds even more variety.

    Exactly, if you are bored and looking for something to do at endgame, then PVP is a great rabbit hole to climb into.
    where2r1 wrote: »
    Hmmm.... HOBO is back?
    Gotta love it. Go kick some Fed asses. You got a You Tube channel up yet? It's OK I will google.
    I do not PvP ... but have fun with it the revival (if you all dare). :)

    I'm low on the totem pole, but do find us on Discord. We'd be happy to see you.
    nimbull wrote: »
    PvP ya say?

    nope.gif

    Honestly, I hadn't anticipated scuttling sea creature, so I do not have a rebuttal at this time. Well played.
    ashstorm1 wrote: »
    Good for you if you enjoy PvP.

    Thanks, and you can, too!
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Yeeeeeaaaaa...

    No.

    As it stands PvP is not about skill so much as it is about the spike DPS to the point NOTHING a player can do can survive a single pass. All the top PvPers are going to be running vape builds designed for maximum carnage in the shortest amount of time. It gets worse if they're in Pilot Escorts as they can actually zip around more, and even worse if its a Redshirt Romulan with a full set of Superior Romulan Operative Boffs.

    Despite what some may say... the majority of players on the receiving end are going to explode before they can even blink.

    That is not fun. That is rage inducing.


    Never said it was easy. Actually, I said it took me more than a year to come up with a viable build. If you are patient, and if you learn to channel your rage into a desire to grow as a player, it creates a whole new game for you after you thought you'd done all there was to be done.
    TIME TO GIVE PVP A TRY

    no...

    extra words to make minimum count to post

    Well, at least you took the time to reply to a thread you were heavily invested in.

    Once again, as I stated in the OP, we have the same old crows, crowing, trying to push people away from PVP before they even give it a chance. They claim they were insulted by my post, but the furthest I went was suggesting that PVE and Space Barbie can get boring over time and that PVP requires a higher level skill. I'm pretty sure both of these statements are objectively true and that those claiming to hate PVP have no stake in whether or not the PVP population grows. In fact, one player stated directly that he thinks STO is a terrible game, leaving me to wonder a few things: 1) Why bother coming on the forums? 2) Why try to tear down something the PVP players are trying to build? 3) Are there any limits to self-delusion? 4) How can we as players take back these forums from people who care nothing about STO and its endgame experience? I think there have been maybe one or two people in the thread who actually play PVP and they claim it is a fun experience. You can keep reading the forums and getting negative impressions from the same people who admit they do not play PVP. Or, you can resolve to give PVP a try, and with an open mind and a willingness to learn, you might find something you truly enjoy.

    Those of us who actually care about STO and the PVP experience will be in Ker'rat waiting. After you get blown up, don't RAGE, but ENGAGE with your opponents, asking questions, getting advice, joining a tight-knit community that is growing by the day. It will take some time to accomplish your goals. But, unlike the forum-PVPers, that's why some of us continue to play STO after all these years.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    (...)The BEST PvP is when both sides have a chance, and victory is not a guarantee. As it stands now... that will never happen outside of a prearranged meet.(...)
    Agreed. An evenly matched meet can be a lot of fun.
    robby0321 wrote: »
    (...)The cost of doffs lockbox traits ship traits lobo consoles having the right mods on weapons is just to much in terms of real life money or in game resources. I added up on console what I would need to get my ship in pvp order again and the cost just for ships was 3.5 billion ec. That’s not counting doffs and lobi gear. Both pvp and pve players have to understand the average players isn’t going to spend this much on an 8 year old dying game.(...)
    You (might) be amazed at what some people spend on their PvE builds. I do understand what you're saying though. Cost of entry is prohibitive.

  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,247 Community Moderator
    Seems like we had this topic come up not too long ago, and it didn't go well. So, please folks, let's not let this get out of hand again.

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  • xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,114 Arc User
    Fair enough. Nobody is saying you have to do anything. But I have a right to come and promote an aspect of the game I care about without being called names. Can anyone actually say that PVP-related posts get a fair treatment in these forums? Why would a new player attempt PVP when all he or she reads is negative.
    If you read my post as "full of hate and condescension" then you have thin skin and an inability to view the world with objectivity. Compared to the insults and calls to "end PVP" that follow any post even tangentially related to PVP in these forums I would say that I took it pretty easy on you and your brethren.

    So at the same time you think you are treated unfairly and are being called names while you have the right to take it even less easy on people with differing opinions "and their brethren"?
    Once again, as I stated in the OP, we have the same old crows, crowing, trying to push people away from PVP before they even give it a chance. They claim they were insulted by my post, but the furthest I went was suggesting that PVE and Space Barbie can get boring over time and that PVP requires a higher level skill.

    The latter requires a different kind of skill and preferences. Maybe higher level, maybe not. But about "the furthest I went":
    (...) blatant trolls (...) whine (...) FaW warriors who insult your mother (...) bitterness and vitriol (...) not representative of reality. (...) these haters got their egos checked in the battle zone or arena and decided to try to ruin it for everyone. (...) they will do anything and everything they can to ruin the fun if they can’t be the center of attention. I have found that this holds true in-game as much as in the real world.

    Let's just say I disagree with your assertion that you weren't insulting.

    By the way, referring to real or perceived real life shortcomings of people in such a discussion already tends to show you have no real argument, because the way I am as a person in real life has nothing to do with the validity of my arguments or opinions.

    And again:
    A PVE-centered playing experience has only one logical conclusion: (...) If you are not playing with and against other players then you are unlocking ships, traits, and holdings that have no value beyond aesthetics.

    You already preemptively call every opinion differing from yours not logical. Way to show an open mind yourself.
    My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
  • r0m#7631 r0m Member Posts: 134 Arc User

    PVP is the true endgame. You just need to approach it the way you approached STO all those years ago, with curiosity and a willingness to learn. It’s the best thing going, and despite claims in these forums to the contrary, today’s resurgent PVP population means it is here to stay.

    For STO, I really agree as there is no real PVE endgame, no real challenge.

    PVP might be a good way to get away from the boredom, but it won't be for everyone. Some people just don't like the competitive nature of it and want to chill and enjoy a good story while being challenged, somewhat, by the AI.

    Let's remember, this is mostly a MMO for casuals, so although there might be more challenging objectives for those who strive for more, a lot of the player base will be content re-doing the fleet actions on normal difficulty.

    Or if they feel bold... Advanced!

    Your argument was very well presented, however, starting to think about getting myself a PVP build now.

  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    Oh the arrogance shown. Yeah YOU are the reason why many people will not play PvP. So because us PvE focused people like to play the game for space barbie reasons is somehow doing it wrong and wasting time and money?!? Despite the fact that it makes us happy? Yeah...that's a great way to try and get us to joing you in PvP. Insult us into doing it. Yep, that is a great idea...for you PvP idjets maybe...the rest of us...not so much. Oh and thanks so much for proving the toxic community right off the bat in your OP there. Or the fact that we can play space barbie with minimal time and money investments unlike PvP? I mean I have amasses more resources than I need by MILES with very minimal investment in time, money AND skill. I like that this game is casual and I can do that. That is WHY I play this game. If I want to be serious about a game, I will play a REAL MMO...not this one. And I do. Ones that have a real PvP system. Until they either dual stat ALL items in this game for PvP and PvE OR they make PvP only items that are basically common gear level and disable all traits and doffs in some manner or other (either have the items for sale or have PvP only premade ships), this game's PvP is and will continue to be a joke. And if you can not support the ideas given, all that shows is that you are not interested in PvP, you are interested in hey let's stomp the noob with this shiney that I paid oodles for because i want to show off my e-peen. Which is a vast majority of you PvPers...and once again why we don't wanna play with you. You have given no reasons as to why I would want to invest time and effort into playing with you. Hell you can't even ask nicely for others to play with you. Wanna start up the vanilla PvP again(we can talk about the rules for it? I would totally support and join back in for that in a heartbeat. That would be a reason to PvP again.

    *Claps at seriously excellent post* Well said. STO is a causal game for Star Trek Fans, not hardcore gamers and it needs to remain that way.

    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,698 Community Moderator
    Guys please keep things civil or we will have to lock the post.
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