Torps are fine the way they are, you just have to "LEARN" how to use them. I've seen people pull 200k+ on CCA (given it has no shields to worry about) with only torps. Just look though all the rep skills/traits, ship traits, and some of the recent rep weapon set bonus's. Thing with torps you can not have them auto firing, but fire then at the right time and in cases of having 2+ torps - fire then in the correct order so each of their buffs will help others. One of the rep sets (think terran) has a activatable bonus that for 20 secs any of your torps that hits the target will cause you to fire another torp of the one that hit and keep firing as long as you don't miss (if i read the tooltip correctly, if this is correct, just think how this would be with hy3 or spread 3)
CCA is not really a good example sadly as the entity and its "babies" have an innate weakness to kinetic damage, so the parse is in some ways skewed in favour of torp boats and science-spamming exotic builds.
But you are right in what you say about learning to use torps though.
It's not really a case of spamming the hell out of them and wasting them on shields, you need to learn when to fire so they land just as a shield facing drops. Or learn how to outflank the enemy to drop the torps on them without them shooting them down. Or even knowing which spread of torp to use again which enemy.
Oh the thing with the Terran clicky for extra torps - it just launches a normal photon torp as the extra, not the flavour you are using.
Also good for a torp build is the trait from the Elachi Sheshar. Adds a second High-Yield charge to each use (assuming you only have it slotted once)
I've not tried this yet, need to get a hold of that ship first.
My personal favourite torp trait is Reverberation from the Amarie Smuggler ship though.
Dealing damage to any foe with a Projectile weapon will grant you a Reverberation Charge at a maximum rate of 1 per second. Each Reverberation Charge grants a stacking 10% chance to knock your opponents' shields offline for 5sec when using Projectile weapons. On a successful deactivation, all charges are consumed and you are locked out of building up charges for several seconds.
If you have a rapid fire torp like the missile launchers or the Kelvin torps it is possible to time it perfectly and have the shields drop for 5 secs just as you load up a TS3 and land the whole lot on an entirely unshielded target. Now THAT feels good.
Also good for a torp build is the trait from the Elachi Sheshar. Adds a second High-Yield charge to each use (assuming you only have it slotted once)
I've not tried this yet, need to get a hold of that ship first.
My personal favourite torp trait is Reverberation from the Amarie Smuggler ship though.
Dealing damage to any foe with a Projectile weapon will grant you a Reverberation Charge at a maximum rate of 1 per second. Each Reverberation Charge grants a stacking 10% chance to knock your opponents' shields offline for 5sec when using Projectile weapons. On a successful deactivation, all charges are consumed and you are locked out of building up charges for several seconds.
If you have a rapid fire torp like the missile launchers or the Kelvin torps it is possible to time it perfectly and have the shields drop for 5 secs just as you load up a TS3 and land the whole lot on an entirely unshielded target. Now THAT feels good.
That does sound fun. But yeah, the Sheshar trait is...
After using Torpedo: High Yield 1, 2, or 3 and launching a high-yield torpedo, you will receive the effects of Torpedo: High Yield 1, allowing your next torpedo to benefit from the torpedo upgrade. This effect can be triggered once every 30 seconds
6 mine lunchers on one ship? BS 4 yes mines mount in stern slots most slots on ships 8 4 front 4 stern plus on escorts the experimentl slot so bs 6 unless you modded STO which is TOS rule broken.
You do know that you can slot the Breen and Vaadwaur Cluster Torpedoes (Mines) Forward.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
6 mine lunchers on one ship? BS 4 yes mines mount in stern slots most slots on ships 8 4 front 4 stern plus on escorts the experimentl slot so bs 6 unless you modded STO which is TOS rule broken.
Clusters produce mines and there was 4 frigates for 4 extra mine launchers and consoles for more.
Those vorgon frigate pets love laying minefields miles away from the action most of the time. Although I think that's more down to the pet ai being dodgy at most things so they fixate on laying mines rather than either flying alongside the mothership or obeying the attack my target command by using their beams. IF they can be persuaded to dock and get deployed in range their mines do okay but its a faff.
I tend to use torps in conjunction with other things to make use of the secondary effects rather than their base damage. Rom rep torps wander about not doing very much unless you use the intel ability which does make a spread pretty worthwhile, moreso when you've grav-well'd smaller ships in to your primary target.
Mines aren't something I use all that often outside the cloaking tractor mines or the (really slow reload) nukara webs. Having them on autofire is usually a waste of time if you have hangar pets at all as they can be 10km or more behind you yet will aggro, trigger combat on something 15km ahead or you (or25km ahead of them) and due to the red alert mines will plop out and sit being useless.
If I was a starship captain you can bet I would be making good use of my many transporter pads, beaming warheads over to the enemy ship in dozens. My torpedos would also be able to make 90 degree turns on a dime and have yields comparable to nuclear warheads, engulfing any ship within a mile. Not sure why the torpedos in Trek are so weak when we can already imagine better tech.
> @reyan01 said: > Have to say, back on the subject of torpedoes – with the Zen charge sale and 25% off sale in place I purchased two Key Ring Bundles to upgrade the last two torpedoes (which were stuck at XIV Very Rare despite eating god knows how many superior upgrades) on my Rhode Island torpedo boat build. Therefore, build currently looks like this (everything MkXIV Epic): > > Fore > Quantum Phase Torpedo Launcher > Delphic Distortion Quantum Torpedo Launcher > Neutronic Quantum Torpedo Launcher > > Aft > Terran Task Force Photon Torpedo Launcher > Enhanced Bio-molecular Torpedo Launcher > Advanced Piezo-Photon Torpedo Launcher > > Emphasis on drain on the build with Aux at 130 and 407 points in drain expertise. All consoles chosen boost either drain, projectiles or both - and consoles that have set powers with the chosen torpedoes used in most cases. > > And frankly, it’s an absolute BLAST to fly! I have no idea what DPS it produces – and I REALLY don’t care as the ‘fun’ factor overrides that for me anyway; but it certainly feels effective enough, able to make short work of the spheres in ISA, does significant damage to Herald ships in GtGA and have managed to HYIII ‘one-shot’ a few of the smaller Terran ships (Frigates, Escorts and science ships) in the mirror event.
Nice. On my main Tac I have my science pilot escort set up as follows(don't remember the actual weapons) Front 2 torps/3 omni arrays Rear 2 torps.
Usually fly with aux at 85 the rest of the power at 40(plenty enough power to rub 3 omni arrays) and just have a blast bringing the torp heat.
And on my engineering escort just for giggles 3 omni arrays, 4 turrets. Just cause "why not"?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
> @usskentucky said: > If I was a starship captain you can bet I would be making good use of my many transporter pads, beaming warheads over to the enemy ship in dozens. My torpedos would also be able to make 90 degree turns on a dime and have yields comparable to nuclear warheads, engulfing any ship within a mile. Not sure why the torpedos in Trek are so weak when we can already imagine better tech.
It's called a shield. Transporters can't just cut through those all the time (no matter how much the intel power would like to pretend they can). And I'm not gonna go into what kind of ethics problems there would be with that kind of tactic.
Torps are loaded with antimatter charges, I don't know if you realize that those are pretty freaking heavy explosions. In a Voyager episode, they said they could level San Francisco with a shot or two. They don't need much stronger than that because they're fighting tiny little starships as opposed to entire city-sized dreadnoughts.
If you still think your tiny little nukes are actually worth anything (Even if, again, the ethical dilemma is pretty strong in that regard), please look into the Kentari Mass Produced Missile Launcher's high yield shots. They fire nuclear warheads, which can indeed turn on a dime, and also do almost nothing in comparison to better, stronger, more efficient weaponry.
Torpedos are already good vs unshielded targets (shields have 75% dmg reduction vs kinetic dmg). in addition there is a lot of shield pen stuff available, you just need to use the propper abilities.
but if you want to see what you could do with torpedos watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYKMLwMBlKQ
Yeah...because you link a video of the only boss in the game that doesn't have shields. Can't stack the deck any more than that...
But in the real world of STO...there are many targets (Especially bosses) that die without their shields shields ever dropping. Torps are useless against even a sliver of shields...they need some love.
They DID give torps some love. The grav torps with even a TS1 will do some decent damage.
Mines on the other hand...yeah those really do need some love.
So Torps are balanced because of one specific torp out of dozens may actually be slightly effective? Not because of the torpedo itself but because of the special proc.
I’m on the edge of dropping my torp-sci build. It’s still effective but nowhere near what it was before the nerf bat hit it. Going into arena these days I’m one of the few players not flying an escort with permanent immunity and the ability to oneshot with cannons. But that’s balance, right? Just upending the meta every 7-9 months so that everyone gets a shot at being on top for a while?
exactly! one release it is cruisers, then sci, then tac. next it is torps, then beams, then cannons.. guess cruisers and torps will be next. This has happened for years.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
3 spire +torp consoles ... and consoles to finish sets like the terran console for the 0.5 global cool down ect
3 projectile doffs
High yield 3 - Dispersal Alpha 1
Collection of typical heals / Temporal Part Gen dmg including recursive sheer 3
Hot pursuit Triat (required) and Kinetic precision (projectile level 15 crafting trait)
temporal spec (required for the 8.6k health for things that are destructible)
Rep trait for +destructible speed
Just thought I would share... that is a perfectly viable Mine boat if you want to annoy people around you with 1001 things on the screen. And yes to make torps and mines work its going to require tons of rep / Lobi gear. Unlike cannons and beams there is no reason to ever use a regular torp... and even mines are questionable. Crafted quantums are the only real passable non rep option imo.
Torpedos are already good vs unshielded targets (shields have 75% dmg reduction vs kinetic dmg). in addition there is a lot of shield pen stuff available, you just need to use the propper abilities.
but if you want to see what you could do with torpedos watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYKMLwMBlKQ
Yeah...because you link a video of the only boss in the game that doesn't have shields. Can't stack the deck any more than that...
But in the real world of STO...there are many targets (Especially bosses) that die without their shields shields ever dropping. Torps are useless against even a sliver of shields...they need some love.
That's not true torps are not useless against a silver of shields in fact it’s the other way around a sliver of shields is useless against torps. These days even full shields are pretty useless against torps with the right builds. I do not even have any shield pen and shields are gone within seconds from my torps and mines.
In this example using a pairing of cannons with torpedoes, you would actually get to use the torpedo's high damage against the hull of ships via ripping them down by using your cannons. Even if it were made that the damage against the hull for torpedos, and the shields for cannons were upped to 185-195% without further reducing the damage they deal against shields/torpedos an hull/cannons, they would actually be even more complimenting an imperative to beams.
It works that way now. What makes all beam builds so good is that you can make them crit so high. When you take away the crits cannons take down shields faster and torpedoes take down unshielded targets faster then anything else in game. Some of the youtubers have touched on this without going into much detail. I would like to see alot more talk on these kind of builds.
I don't know what direction the dev's want to go with this game, but these kind of builds do very good in this game. If some of the dps builders would put some time into these builds they could make them alot better than I ever could. Put them out on youtube and it could solve alot of the problems with stf's as well as bring some understanding to why the dev's did what they did in the balance pass.
[/quote]
In this example using a pairing of cannons with torpedoes, you would actually get to use the torpedo's high damage against the hull of ships via ripping them down by using your cannons. Even if it were made that the damage against the hull for torpedos, and the shields for cannons were upped to 185-195% without further reducing the damage they deal against shields/torpedos an hull/cannons, they would actually be even more complimenting an imperative to beams.
It works that way now. What makes all beam builds so good is that you can make them crit so high. When you take away the crits cannons take down shields faster and torpedoes take down unshielded targets faster then anything else in game. Some of the youtubers have touched on this without going into much detail. I would like to see alot more talk on these kind of builds.
I don't know what direction the dev's want to go with this game, but these kind of builds do very good in this game. If some of the dps builders would put some time into these builds they could make them alot better than I ever could. Put them out on youtube and it could solve alot of the problems with stf's as well as bring some understanding to why the dev's did what they did in the balance pass.
[/quote]
I believe @sarcasmdetector@spencerb96 and I have touched upon these concepts. It might be something that could bring a few of us out of retirement temporarily, and get some of the mathematicians like @atem and @jayiie interested in some base number crunches to figure out what would make for an equitable situation, where beams would be great vs shields but weaker vs hull, cannons at a good mix between shields and hull, and torps suck at shield damage, but excel at hull damage.
They DID give torps some love. The grav torps with even a TS1 will do some decent damage.
Mines on the other hand...yeah those really do need some love.
Maybe a total overhaul to make them somewhat less situational and limited?
Right...because getting some love = a total overhaul of the weapon system which the dev team they have now barely understand at all. That is just some minor thing and not a major overhaul of a base game system. Yep...that what that term means. How aboput NO. Torps got some love. It's not just the grav torps. With things like the missles with low cooldowns to trigger the proj doffs, torp builds got plenty of love lately. If you can't make a decent torp build now, the issue ain't the game system...the issue is you not knowing enough about the game. We don't fix that by changing the game to suit YOU being ignorant.
I was specifically talking about mines, you know. The key issue is that mines are basically completely useless.
They are not useless my mines often do more DPS then my torpedoes. The problem with mines is most people don’t know how to use them and don’t take the right combo of stuff to make them decent and they don’t take mine bridge powers. Putting a well placed large mine field in the right spawn point does high damage. You can wipe out entire waves of ships within seconds.
The problem with mines is that most of the unique and special mines do rubbish or half the damage of basic normal mines. For example the Competition mine sounds good but in practises does less damage then basic mines. Same for the Tethered Q mine its completely rubbish doing worse than half the damage of basic mines.
All they need to do is fix the few bugs and fix the unique special mines so they are worth using and fix the traits which should work with mines but are broken.
Never said they weren't damaging. The issue is utility. Mines, you need very specific setups, planning, etc. As I detailed in the rest of the paragraph, you need to specifically get mine powers, know where to place mines, etc. Whereas torpedoes, most tac Boffs have torp powers, they fire faster, and you can use them for both actively pursuing a target or just about any other situation.
Just saying, mines need more utility overall.
Umm no. The issue with mines is more than that. You can't make a mine boat. You can do all torps and do just fine...but all mines...yeah good luck with that.
Yes you can. One of my favourite builds is a mine boat and I often use it over my torpedo boat as it puts out something silly like 50 to 100 mines at a time and does sustained DPS. I know most people find torpedoes easier to use and there are more torpedo options but Hot Pursuit is a game changer for mines, it more than triples their effectiveness.
I do admit it’s harder to make a mine boat as there is less knowledge, less advice out there. Since the mine boost, mine boats have been doable and work more then well enough.
You do know that cluster torps are not mines...right? Otherwise, how the hell do you have 50 mines out at one time considering mines have a long shared cooldown?!? Much less 100. Or are you spending 3 min laying down mines to lure things into it? You do realize that doesn't count...right?
Cluster torps deploy mines, and any eligible mine buffs will affect deployed mines. The only time a cluster torp is a "torp" is if some person or target rams the mine delivery system, and it blows up in their face (I have a video of that somewhere in a PvP match).
letting torps move faster might be a good start, but i think making them all act like destructable torpedos being able to get another target when the target is destroyed might be actually better and more helpful like the experimental proton charge weapon for the additional slot (the xindi escort weapon)
I agree about the faster flight time. Kelvin Timeline torp travel time should be the baseline for all non-destructible torps, and the destructible ones should travel as fast as a standard photon now (since they are so easy to shoot down as it is). I don't think giving all torps the ability to track a new target would be a good idea, though, both from a game mechanics and thematic perspective. That's just my opinion, though.
What did hurt torpedo builds is the ability to "pre-queue" one torpedo ability, and hold the ability until the shared cd expires, then queue and fire a different torpedo ability. Torpedoes work best as burst damage weapons, and that magnified the burst potential (at the expense of having nothing for the remainder of cd's). I do not know if that was done for PvP reasons (and it doesn't really matter if it was or wasn't), but it did significantly nerf the throughput of torpedo damage in PvP and PvE.
The Great Balance Pass didn't address torpedo mechanics as a whole, as stated by @borticuscryptic on multiple podcasts. @crypticspartan#0627 has addressed some issues (and continues to address items here and there) with a few specific torps, but as far as mechanics are concerned, that hasn't been addressed (yet).
Torpedos are already good vs unshielded targets (shields have 75% dmg reduction vs kinetic dmg). in addition there is a lot of shield pen stuff available, you just need to use the propper abilities.
but if you want to see what you could do with torpedos watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYKMLwMBlKQ
Yeah...because you link a video of the only boss in the game that doesn't have shields. Can't stack the deck any more than that...
But in the real world of STO...there are many targets (Especially bosses) that die without their shields shields ever dropping. Torps are useless against even a sliver of shields...they need some love.
That's not true torps are not useless against a silver of shields in fact it’s the other way around a sliver of shields is useless against torps. These days even full shields are pretty useless against torps with the right builds. I do not even have any shield pen and shields are gone within seconds from my torps and mines.
That can happen at times when you fight on easy against frigates.
In this example using a pairing of cannons with torpedoes, you would actually get to use the torpedo's high damage against the hull of ships via ripping them down by using your cannons. Even if it were made that the damage against the hull for torpedos, and the shields for cannons were upped to 185-195% without further reducing the damage they deal against shields/torpedos an hull/cannons, they would actually be even more complimenting an imperative to beams.
It works that way now. What makes all beam builds so good is that you can make them crit so high. When you take away the crits cannons take down shields faster and torpedoes take down unshielded targets faster then anything else in game. Some of the youtubers have touched on this without going into much detail. I would like to see alot more talk on these kind of builds.
I don't know what direction the dev's want to go with this game, but these kind of builds do very good in this game. If some of the dps builders would put some time into these builds they could make them alot better than I ever could. Put them out on youtube and it could solve alot of the problems with stf's as well as bring some understanding to why the dev's did what they did in the balance pass.
In this example using a pairing of cannons with torpedoes, you would actually get to use the torpedo's high damage against the hull of ships via ripping them down by using your cannons. Even if it were made that the damage against the hull for torpedos, and the shields for cannons were upped to 185-195% without further reducing the damage they deal against shields/torpedos an hull/cannons, they would actually be even more complimenting an imperative to beams.
It works that way now. What makes all beam builds so good is that you can make them crit so high. When you take away the crits cannons take down shields faster and torpedoes take down unshielded targets faster then anything else in game. Some of the youtubers have touched on this without going into much detail. I would like to see alot more talk on these kind of builds.
I don't know what direction the dev's want to go with this game, but these kind of builds do very good in this game. If some of the dps builders would put some time into these builds they could make them alot better than I ever could. Put them out on youtube and it could solve alot of the problems with stf's as well as bring some understanding to why the dev's did what they did in the balance pass.
[/quote]
I believe @sarcasmdetector@spencerb96 and I have touched upon these concepts. It might be something that could bring a few of us out of retirement temporarily, and get some of the mathematicians like @atem and @jayiie interested in some base number crunches to figure out what would make for an equitable situation, where beams would be great vs shields but weaker vs hull, cannons at a good mix between shields and hull, and torps suck at shield damage, but excel at hull damage.[/quote]
It was @spencerb96 and your stuff that got me thinking about these kind of builds awhile back. From what I have seen in the game alot of players would like to run a mixed kind of build. If you guys could work up some builds that you wouldn't mind being in a plug with and where still fairly cheap I belive it would improve the game for all of us. If it get some of you back into the game even better.
Torpedos are already good vs unshielded targets (shields have 75% dmg reduction vs kinetic dmg). in addition there is a lot of shield pen stuff available, you just need to use the propper abilities.
but if you want to see what you could do with torpedos watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYKMLwMBlKQ
Yeah...because you link a video of the only boss in the game that doesn't have shields. Can't stack the deck any more than that...
But in the real world of STO...there are many targets (Especially bosses) that die without their shields shields ever dropping. Torps are useless against even a sliver of shields...they need some love.
That's not true torps are not useless against a silver of shields in fact it’s the other way around a sliver of shields is useless against torps. These days even full shields are pretty useless against torps with the right builds. I do not even have any shield pen and shields are gone within seconds from my torps and mines.
That can happen at times when you fight on easy against frigates.
My difficulty is set to Elite and it’s not just Frigates but any target. Even on large ships with large shields against my torpedoes the shields last a few seconds as most. I use a high yield based torpedo boat and it rips though shields with ease.
Torpedoes are not always useless against shields and even without my shield destroying torpedo builds a basic torpedo is never stopped by a sliver of shields.
Comments
CCA is not really a good example sadly as the entity and its "babies" have an innate weakness to kinetic damage, so the parse is in some ways skewed in favour of torp boats and science-spamming exotic builds.
But you are right in what you say about learning to use torps though.
It's not really a case of spamming the hell out of them and wasting them on shields, you need to learn when to fire so they land just as a shield facing drops. Or learn how to outflank the enemy to drop the torps on them without them shooting them down. Or even knowing which spread of torp to use again which enemy.
Oh the thing with the Terran clicky for extra torps - it just launches a normal photon torp as the extra, not the flavour you are using.
I've not tried this yet, need to get a hold of that ship first.
My personal favourite torp trait is Reverberation from the Amarie Smuggler ship though.
Dealing damage to any foe with a Projectile weapon will grant you a Reverberation Charge at a maximum rate of 1 per second. Each Reverberation Charge grants a stacking 10% chance to knock your opponents' shields offline for 5sec when using Projectile weapons. On a successful deactivation, all charges are consumed and you are locked out of building up charges for several seconds.
If you have a rapid fire torp like the missile launchers or the Kelvin torps it is possible to time it perfectly and have the shields drop for 5 secs just as you load up a TS3 and land the whole lot on an entirely unshielded target. Now THAT feels good.
That does sound fun. But yeah, the Sheshar trait is...
After using Torpedo: High Yield 1, 2, or 3 and launching a high-yield torpedo, you will receive the effects of Torpedo: High Yield 1, allowing your next torpedo to benefit from the torpedo upgrade. This effect can be triggered once every 30 seconds
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I tend to use torps in conjunction with other things to make use of the secondary effects rather than their base damage. Rom rep torps wander about not doing very much unless you use the intel ability which does make a spread pretty worthwhile, moreso when you've grav-well'd smaller ships in to your primary target.
Mines aren't something I use all that often outside the cloaking tractor mines or the (really slow reload) nukara webs. Having them on autofire is usually a waste of time if you have hangar pets at all as they can be 10km or more behind you yet will aggro, trigger combat on something 15km ahead or you (or25km ahead of them) and due to the red alert mines will plop out and sit being useless.
> Have to say, back on the subject of torpedoes – with the Zen charge sale and 25% off sale in place I purchased two Key Ring Bundles to upgrade the last two torpedoes (which were stuck at XIV Very Rare despite eating god knows how many superior upgrades) on my Rhode Island torpedo boat build. Therefore, build currently looks like this (everything MkXIV Epic):
>
> Fore
> Quantum Phase Torpedo Launcher
> Delphic Distortion Quantum Torpedo Launcher
> Neutronic Quantum Torpedo Launcher
>
> Aft
> Terran Task Force Photon Torpedo Launcher
> Enhanced Bio-molecular Torpedo Launcher
> Advanced Piezo-Photon Torpedo Launcher
>
> Emphasis on drain on the build with Aux at 130 and 407 points in drain expertise. All consoles chosen boost either drain, projectiles or both - and consoles that have set powers with the chosen torpedoes used in most cases.
>
> And frankly, it’s an absolute BLAST to fly! I have no idea what DPS it produces – and I REALLY don’t care as the ‘fun’ factor overrides that for me anyway; but it certainly feels effective enough, able to make short work of the spheres in ISA, does significant damage to Herald ships in GtGA and have managed to HYIII ‘one-shot’ a few of the smaller Terran ships (Frigates, Escorts and science ships) in the mirror event.
Nice. On my main Tac I have my science pilot escort set up as follows(don't remember the actual weapons)
Front 2 torps/3 omni arrays
Rear 2 torps.
Usually fly with aux at 85 the rest of the power at 40(plenty enough power to rub 3 omni arrays) and just have a blast bringing the torp heat.
And on my engineering escort just for giggles 3 omni arrays, 4 turrets. Just cause "why not"?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
> If I was a starship captain you can bet I would be making good use of my many transporter pads, beaming warheads over to the enemy ship in dozens. My torpedos would also be able to make 90 degree turns on a dime and have yields comparable to nuclear warheads, engulfing any ship within a mile. Not sure why the torpedos in Trek are so weak when we can already imagine better tech.
It's called a shield. Transporters can't just cut through those all the time (no matter how much the intel power would like to pretend they can). And I'm not gonna go into what kind of ethics problems there would be with that kind of tactic.
Torps are loaded with antimatter charges, I don't know if you realize that those are pretty freaking heavy explosions. In a Voyager episode, they said they could level San Francisco with a shot or two. They don't need much stronger than that because they're fighting tiny little starships as opposed to entire city-sized dreadnoughts.
If you still think your tiny little nukes are actually worth anything (Even if, again, the ethical dilemma is pretty strong in that regard), please look into the Kentari Mass Produced Missile Launcher's high yield shots. They fire nuclear warheads, which can indeed turn on a dime, and also do almost nothing in comparison to better, stronger, more efficient weaponry.
Yeah...because you link a video of the only boss in the game that doesn't have shields. Can't stack the deck any more than that...
But in the real world of STO...there are many targets (Especially bosses) that die without their shields shields ever dropping. Torps are useless against even a sliver of shields...they need some love.
So Torps are balanced because of one specific torp out of dozens may actually be slightly effective? Not because of the torpedo itself but because of the special proc.
exactly! one release it is cruisers, then sci, then tac. next it is torps, then beams, then cannons.. guess cruisers and torps will be next. This has happened for years.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Romulan Rep Torp - Crafted Plasma (or Grav well rep torp) - Plasmatic bio Matter Lobi torp - Breen Cluster
Comp Rep torp - Quantum Mine - Quantum mine - Terran Rep torp
Reman deflector + shield - Comp engine
3 spire +torp consoles ... and consoles to finish sets like the terran console for the 0.5 global cool down ect
3 projectile doffs
High yield 3 - Dispersal Alpha 1
Collection of typical heals / Temporal Part Gen dmg including recursive sheer 3
Hot pursuit Triat (required) and Kinetic precision (projectile level 15 crafting trait)
temporal spec (required for the 8.6k health for things that are destructible)
Rep trait for +destructible speed
Just thought I would share... that is a perfectly viable Mine boat if you want to annoy people around you with 1001 things on the screen. And yes to make torps and mines work its going to require tons of rep / Lobi gear. Unlike cannons and beams there is no reason to ever use a regular torp... and even mines are questionable. Crafted quantums are the only real passable non rep option imo.
It works that way now. What makes all beam builds so good is that you can make them crit so high. When you take away the crits cannons take down shields faster and torpedoes take down unshielded targets faster then anything else in game. Some of the youtubers have touched on this without going into much detail. I would like to see alot more talk on these kind of builds.
I don't know what direction the dev's want to go with this game, but these kind of builds do very good in this game. If some of the dps builders would put some time into these builds they could make them alot better than I ever could. Put them out on youtube and it could solve alot of the problems with stf's as well as bring some understanding to why the dev's did what they did in the balance pass.
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It works that way now. What makes all beam builds so good is that you can make them crit so high. When you take away the crits cannons take down shields faster and torpedoes take down unshielded targets faster then anything else in game. Some of the youtubers have touched on this without going into much detail. I would like to see alot more talk on these kind of builds.
I don't know what direction the dev's want to go with this game, but these kind of builds do very good in this game. If some of the dps builders would put some time into these builds they could make them alot better than I ever could. Put them out on youtube and it could solve alot of the problems with stf's as well as bring some understanding to why the dev's did what they did in the balance pass.
[/quote]
I believe @sarcasmdetector @spencerb96 and I have touched upon these concepts. It might be something that could bring a few of us out of retirement temporarily, and get some of the mathematicians like @atem and @jayiie interested in some base number crunches to figure out what would make for an equitable situation, where beams would be great vs shields but weaker vs hull, cannons at a good mix between shields and hull, and torps suck at shield damage, but excel at hull damage.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Cluster torps deploy mines, and any eligible mine buffs will affect deployed mines. The only time a cluster torp is a "torp" is if some person or target rams the mine delivery system, and it blows up in their face (I have a video of that somewhere in a PvP match).
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
I agree about the faster flight time. Kelvin Timeline torp travel time should be the baseline for all non-destructible torps, and the destructible ones should travel as fast as a standard photon now (since they are so easy to shoot down as it is). I don't think giving all torps the ability to track a new target would be a good idea, though, both from a game mechanics and thematic perspective. That's just my opinion, though.
What did hurt torpedo builds is the ability to "pre-queue" one torpedo ability, and hold the ability until the shared cd expires, then queue and fire a different torpedo ability. Torpedoes work best as burst damage weapons, and that magnified the burst potential (at the expense of having nothing for the remainder of cd's). I do not know if that was done for PvP reasons (and it doesn't really matter if it was or wasn't), but it did significantly nerf the throughput of torpedo damage in PvP and PvE.
The Great Balance Pass didn't address torpedo mechanics as a whole, as stated by @borticuscryptic on multiple podcasts. @crypticspartan#0627 has addressed some issues (and continues to address items here and there) with a few specific torps, but as far as mechanics are concerned, that hasn't been addressed (yet).
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
That can happen at times when you fight on easy against frigates.
It works that way now. What makes all beam builds so good is that you can make them crit so high. When you take away the crits cannons take down shields faster and torpedoes take down unshielded targets faster then anything else in game. Some of the youtubers have touched on this without going into much detail. I would like to see alot more talk on these kind of builds.
I don't know what direction the dev's want to go with this game, but these kind of builds do very good in this game. If some of the dps builders would put some time into these builds they could make them alot better than I ever could. Put them out on youtube and it could solve alot of the problems with stf's as well as bring some understanding to why the dev's did what they did in the balance pass.
[/quote]
I believe @sarcasmdetector @spencerb96 and I have touched upon these concepts. It might be something that could bring a few of us out of retirement temporarily, and get some of the mathematicians like @atem and @jayiie interested in some base number crunches to figure out what would make for an equitable situation, where beams would be great vs shields but weaker vs hull, cannons at a good mix between shields and hull, and torps suck at shield damage, but excel at hull damage.[/quote]
It was @spencerb96 and your stuff that got me thinking about these kind of builds awhile back. From what I have seen in the game alot of players would like to run a mixed kind of build. If you guys could work up some builds that you wouldn't mind being in a plug with and where still fairly cheap I belive it would improve the game for all of us. If it get some of you back into the game even better.
Torpedoes are not always useless against shields and even without my shield destroying torpedo builds a basic torpedo is never stopped by a sliver of shields.