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[THE ORVILLE] S01E09 Cupid's Dagger | REVIEWS
garaks31
Member Posts: 2,845 Arc User
Directed by; Jamie Babbit
Air Date; November 09, 2017
S01E09 - Cupid's Dagger
Spoilers plz with the code !!!
Promo
Synopsis; http://www.geekgirlauthority.com/the-orville-recap-s01e09-cupids-dagger/
Next Eps. Promo
previous/next eps. reviews,
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1236305/the-orville-s01e10-firestorm-reviews/p1
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1235973/the-orville-s01e08-into-the-fold-reviews/p1
Air Date; November 09, 2017
S01E09 - Cupid's Dagger
Spoilers plz with the code !!!
Promo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxu3SZ3e_70Synopsis; http://www.geekgirlauthority.com/the-orville-recap-s01e09-cupids-dagger/
The Orville is called to mediate a peace treaty between two warring cultures, but tensions run even higher between Ed and Kelly when a familiar face boards the ship. Meanwhile Yaphit declares his love for Dr. Finn with surprising results.
Next Eps. Promo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z04iAh0-Xtoprevious/next eps. reviews,
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1236305/the-orville-s01e10-firestorm-reviews/p1
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1235973/the-orville-s01e08-into-the-fold-reviews/p1
Post edited by garaks31 on
[THE ORVILLE] S01E09 Cupid's Dagger | REVIEWS 13 votes
Black Alert!!! (E)
7%
1 vote
Highly illogical...
23%
3 votes
it's so bubbly and happy...
15%
2 votes
Galaxy Quest
30%
4 votes
Nexus! (A+)
23%
3 votes
0
Comments
My character Tsin'xing
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 65, Rom Sci
S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 65, Rom Eng
T'Lyra, LvL 65, Fed, Vul Sci
Ta'el, Lvl 63, Rom Tac
Sukima, Lvl 65, Fed Vul Sci
House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anointed Champion (Faith.)
Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Darulio has now committed three (known) counts of date r*pe (one with Kelly in the pilot, one each with Kelly and Mercer in the episode). This walking sh*tstain knows full well what his pheromones do, but the only time he has any second thoughts is when Mercer's attraction to him directly endangers the mission. This episode is as godawful disgusting as the Trip Tucker mpreg episode on ENT.
What the flying f*ck was Seth MacFarlane thinking?
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Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I guess the whole date TRIBBLE thing was kinda handwaved away as "it's a real feeling, just induced by pheromones", or the price they were willing to pay to get characters act homosexual without it being a big deal.
Best looked with a comedy mindset in where we expect somethings happen for the sake of the joke, not because they are morally or ethically okay.
> I thought it was a bit too predictable.
>
> I guess the whole date **** thing was kinda handwaved away as "it's a real feeling, just induced by pheromones", or the price they were willing to pay to get characters act homosexual without it being a big deal.
>
> Best looked with a comedy mindset in where we expect somethings happen for the sake of the joke, not because they are morally or ethically okay.
That's bullsh*t, and it has nothing to do with homosexuality: that was actually an interesting twist until it turned out Ed was drugged into it. If they wouldn't have done it without the "assistance" of the pheromones, it's not consensual and it's not a joke. Orville has also managed to top itself on its misogyny towards Kelly: now we've gone from harping on her infidelity for episodes on end to "She didn't cheat, she was date-r*ped! ISN'T THAT SUCH A LAUGH RIOT???"
Turns out Orville really IS more Star Trek than DSC: TNG and ENT had zero grasp of sexual consent, too.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
One show that did this well was Buffy, where the Trio used mind control on Warren's ex-girlfriend. It played with the love potion trope only to point out how terrible it was later, which took two of the group (and probably a lot of the audience) honestly by surprise. I think the line about how they were "real emotions" was supposed to change the effect from mind control to something else, but that's no better than technobabble. It's the turtle holding up the turtle holding up the world -- it purports to solve a problem , but really only pushes it aside.
Ultimately, though, this doesn't affect my appreciation of the series as a whole, which has been incredible for the most part. Plus, Ed & Kelly's relationship should be much improved, and other than the nurse, no one on the main crew did anything unethical. Even Yaphit, who was on shaky ground, ultimately behaved responsibly.
I wonder if Yaphit ever made it to Engineering. :P
> @valoreah said:
> ^ Sums up my thoughts as well. Can't see Orville lasting that long.
Yeah, well, unfortunately they've already greenlit season two, so...
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I didn't mean Yaphit was on shaky ground here, just with his behavior in general. After Claire was affected, he acted responsibly, questioned her odd behavior when it wasn't in his interest to do so, and accepted Alara's order to avoid contact even though he didn't know why. The worst thing he did in the episode was his initial proposal. Given his behavior in About a Girl & Pria, there really wasn't a reason to expect him to be so decent. I hope it's followed up with feelings of guilt, but we're good so far.
I agree that the nurse's actions could be justified, but for me I want them to be justified on screen. I can accept occasionally unethical behavior, but I need to see acknowledgement of the struggle.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Just before this episode I mentioned that it felt like they had overcome that "ex couple" joke/story thing and moved the characters forward, and this episode brought it all back.
And I disagree that the repeat of the original scene between Kelly and the blue alien was a good callback. I think it would have been much better if Kelly had walked onto Mercer and him.
> And I disagree that the repeat of the original scene between Kelly and the blue alien was a good callback. I think it would have been much better if Kelly had walked onto Mercer and him.
Ooh, I like that idea.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Mostly sums up my thoughts, but i would say the part about the Darulio and Kelly thing was more in poor taste than a callback, it made worse by these pheromones where Kelly was obviously an unwilling participant in the affair and it was clear her judgement was effected.
I don't know if it was the same the first time around when Ed left his pad and found a new life away from Kelly, was she under his pheromones a year earlier as well? In all that what does it mean between Ed and Kelly, Ed was clearly appaled by what he saw but is Kelly as much a victim of Darulio? When Darulio left her after the events, did she return to normal and felt an awful disgust running through her body upon realising what happened and how she felt about Ed, especially with these events she didn't have control over but it looked like cheating?
If Kelly was under the influence then Ed has no cause to attack Kelly over that whole thing and it makes this whole relationship thing seem so hollow now and with Ed falling under the same thing with Darulio, will he too feel the same effects Kelly did when he returned to normal?
This episode brought up more questions than answers and a lot of them are not good questions which revolve around consent and how much is under the effect of the pheromones.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
It was maybe the weakest episode so far because of the lack of a deeper subtext. There wasn't much to be taken from here and the comparison to "The naked time" checks out. Some funny moments, some really professional reactions from some crew members (and we learn what makes Yaphit in engineering) but quite a bit of "love potion humour" as well, it's a matter of taste. If I'd nitpick I find it hard to believe the Union has no information whatsoever about the biology of a member species though and the ship's structure seems awfully ill-equipped for the case of senior officers being unable to perform. Once the senior officers are incapacitated the ship seems to turn into a loose band of chicken. In Trek the affected woukd have been relieved of duty promptly. Especially Isaac should have been more involved here, both in his role as science BOFF and as someone to watch Darulio once Alara got suspicious. Also, Darulio being so ignorant towards other cultures as a space faring and reputable scientist and citizen of a intergalactic union seems very constructed.
"Make love not war" is a good message but it really is used pretty cheaply here. As with the last episode, the resolution feels rushed and suffers from network TV cuts.
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There's also Harry Potter, which treats love potions as equivalent to a date r*pe drug from the first time they're brought up. In particular Voldemort was a child by r*pe in this manner: his mother used love potions to make Tom Riddle, Sr. marry her, then he promptly left when she mistakenly stopped giving them to him.
About the only time I've seen this kind of thing done where it isn't treated as something horrible, nor becomes horrible by fridge logic, is in Tanya Huff's Confederation of Valor series. She has a species called the Taykans whose di' life stage is physically and mentally mature but infertile, which means they can have lots of sex without risk (which has evolved rather like rhesus monkeys to be a source of comfort). Their bodies are attractive to other primate species (they look basically like jet-black elves with pastel-shaded "hair", actually a sense organ) and their pheromones really attractive.
What does the Confederation do? They require di'Taykan soldiers to wear devices that block their pheromones so they don't interfere with operations and let them dial them down off-duty, meaning the attraction isn't so strong that a human can't still say "no" (which isn't often, this being a Tanya Huff series).
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
What doesn't check out is, as I said, Darulio being completely ignorant towards other species or individuals habit but this is true for both sides, the whole union has absolutely no record of his species' biology despite it being a member. It is a typical Trek trope actually where so many people are completely oblivious to the habits of other cultures which often causes trouble and diplomats visiting the enterprise for example are also always completely ill-prepared or even purposefully ignorant of generally accepted habits on a Federation ship. This doesn't really add-up on either side.
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Sorry, I am very much opposed to this comment. Darulio knew he was in heat, he knew full well what he was doing and shook hands knowing full well both the Captain and Commander would fall under his pheromonal control. It doesn't have anything to do with the media hysteria going around right now. Imagine if you were at a bar and you turn away to talk to someone for just two seconds and in that time someone drugged your drink just enough to not knock you out but enough to make you compliant enough to be barely awake for what will follow because a predatory male or female is looking to knock you up in your vulnerable state.
Ed and Kelly had no control over what they were doing because of those pheromones and you could see they were not themselves, Darulio used that to his advantage to get one over on two people at the same time.
Let's put aside the debate for a moment and focus on the really awful after effects something like that would do to another person after effectively being forced into such a position where they had no control of the situation, some people would be utterly destroyed by an experience like that and it shouldn't be taken so casually.
This episode is just awful for the underlying reasons that exist, i don't care for how it was joked about for the sake of the orville series, it's just a bad storyline when you realise something like that doesn't have a place being a joke.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
You are putting way too much into this, though. As I said, the situation depicted and RL examples of drugging drinks and TRIBBLE people are not the same, you make them out to be that way but that's not what the show depicted. Same for the after effects, nobody argues RL consequences but the show showed none of that. In fact, all of the affected were pretty okay with what happened and treated it as something to shrug over. "Oh, he was in heat it was pheromones. Toodles!". So anything that causes you to find this repelling is something you put into it, not what was shown.
Again, in-universe, if you were alone in a group of aliens and knew of a gesture that made those aliens react friendly to you to avoid conflict (and his racial trait seems to be somewhat of a hippie community anyways) it'd be the same just to avoid conflict. For Darulio intercourse was a handshake, for him it doesn't have any far reaching consequences or psychological implications, something like monogamy and shame are probably something unknown to him. It was only when he saw what kind of consequences his actions had to the mission that he started to have a change of mind which one can assume stays with the character in-universe, hopefully.
As I said, the episode was very constructed and like all love potion episodes in any show it doesn't really work. Pheromones don't even work that way to begin with, the fact that seemingly everyone is completely oblivious to anothers biology and culture under those circumstances is completely unbelieveable and so on. But comparing it to TRIBBLE is clearly nothing that was content of the episode in question.
EDIT: Darulio's species has no doubt potential to do horrible things, just like Betazoids in Star Trek do where they repeatedly probe people's minds without consent. But in this case this was not explored and probably not intented, I mean the way people were oblivious to him a few of his species could easily infiltrate and take over governments everywhere.
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Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Half expected it to be Kelly walking onto Mercer and Darulio when Claire walked into Yaphet's apartment.
Also half expected the two warring races to be similar to the Tarakians and Mejalans from Vandread. Still a possibility considering that they both originated from the same species.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1236305/the-orville-s01e10-firestorm-reviews/p1
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
My understanding of the hate has to deal with its timing with scum like Weinstein and others being accused of heinous acts. What Darulio committed was essentially unintentional TRIBBLE due to his physiology. Such a serious topic was treated in a more lighthearted manner instead of the dire consequences that it deserves.