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Why can’t the bosses be harder?

The bosses in this game are not that challenging; they just take a little longer to kill. Sure, you have Romulans with their close proximity advantage. And you have the Na’Kuhl with their warp shadows or whatever. But none of them really seem like they are a threat. They don’t come at you (bro) with any concerted effort. They turn, fire some torps, and just fly in a circle until you kill them.

How hard would it be to make them more challenging? Program their boff abilities to actually boost the right abilities. Train them to use speed boosts to get behind you and lay down fire instead of flying in circles. Just some basics tactics that would give them a chance.

I know some people are still working their way up. They’ll be like, “Oh, I get killed all the time. What’s this dude going on about?” But really, anyone can speed away and peck at any enemy with next to no DPS. It’s not a matter of you can’t kill an NPC, it’s just that it’s easier for you to fly in guns blazing and respawn after you blow your load. The only difference in a DPS-er and a noob is the time it takes til you get your killz. But that’s not exactly a test of skill.

You almost have to try to get killed in this game. And there have to be ways to tweak the AI besides adding ridiculous amounts of hit points. It seems like with each season they get more hitpoints or some sort of immunity granting pet or power. The offensive capability of the enemy never increases.

You can say it’s too much programming, but what are working with here? Computers in 2017. The bosses on Punch Out on my NES were smarter than these Star Trek enemies. I know by the time PS1 came around the NPCs were stalking prey or countering attacks.

Make the AI scare me it is so good. I want to have nightmares about a super smart Klingon stalking me in the cold dead of space, not day dreams while I park and wait for my weapons to drain the hitpoint sacks to death.
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Comments

  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,973 Community Moderator
    I don't mean to sound rude, but have you tried Korfez Elite lately?
    There was a time when Armek ws brutal, but power creep neutered him.
    Manus was pretty nasty at one time. Power Creep neutered her.

    At least the more recent enemy groups had interesting mechanics that meant needing different tactics other than just pure pewpew DPS
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,985 Arc User
    the temporal front bosses can be challenging
    NMXb2ph.png
      "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
      -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
    • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
      the temporal front bosses can be challenging

      If you're in a T4 or lower ship, yes. Anything above that.. meh.. steamroll whatever and move on.
      Mm5NeXy.gif
    • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
      rattler2 wrote: »
      I don't mean to sound rude, but have you tried Korfez Elite lately?
      There was a time when Armek ws brutal, but power creep neutered him.
      Manus was pretty nasty at one time. Power Creep neutered her.

      At least the more recent enemy groups had interesting mechanics that meant needing different tactics other than just pure pewpew DPS

      Tanking Aramek.. that's something I haven't done in years.

      Manus, that one was a bit of pain for the optional. Though the boss could be a pain, if you were to close to one another. The fun part was when the mobs would respawn during the fight.
      Mm5NeXy.gif
    • usskentuckyusskentucky Member Posts: 402 Arc User
      Korfez isn’t a fair example because it is time gated. I could pick off each one those ships if I had time. It all goes back to the speed of the kill being the motive, a DPS race. Instead, those ships should hungry. They should be chasing you around the map, and they should be such skilled hunters that staying alive for a certain amount of time is the objective.
    • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,973 Community Moderator
      edited November 2017
      trennan wrote: »
      Tanking Aramek.. that's something I haven't done in years.

      Manus, that one was a bit of pain for the optional. Though the boss could be a pain, if you were to close to one another. The fun part was when the mobs would respawn during the fight.

      Yea... now they go down pretty quickly due to TR-116 rifles.
      Korfez isn’t a fair example because it is time gated. I could pick off each one those ships if I had time. It all goes back to the speed of the kill being the motive, a DPS race. Instead, those ships should hungry. They should be chasing you around the map, and they should be such skilled hunters that staying alive for a certain amount of time is the objective.

      Actually... it is. Specifically the final part where you're fighting the boss ship. I recently went in with a fleet group, very good players with three of them using Megawell builds, and we couldn't even get the dreadnaught down to 90%! We failed because we not only couldn't kill the dread, we couldn't even dent the warheads it launches at the star! And this is with 3 ships with epic sized gravity wells causing direct damage to the Dread's hull through the shields.

      Apparently according to an older Reddit thread, you can barely eek by a victory if you have a full group doing 75k DPS. EACH.

      Suffice it to say... we were not happy as it felt like we were in T1 ships with Mk II gear when we're rocking T6 ships with mk XIV gear.
      db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
      I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
      The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    • alexraptorralexraptorr Member Posts: 1,192 Arc User
      Honestly the TR-116 was a horrible addition to the game that literally broke ground STF's and made them too easy, and in the process made remodulators of all kinds pretty much useless.
      It completely negates the entire game mechanic that make the Borg unique to fight.
      "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
    • theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,985 Arc User
      trennan wrote: »
      the temporal front bosses can be challenging

      If you're in a T4 or lower ship, yes. Anything above that.. meh.. steamroll whatever and move on.

      On ground
      NMXb2ph.png
        "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
        -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
      • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
        trennan wrote: »
        the temporal front bosses can be challenging

        If you're in a T4 or lower ship, yes. Anything above that.. meh.. steamroll whatever and move on.

        On ground

        Because ground combat, like the KDF, is one of the red-headed step-children of STO.

        But mainly, because they're still based of the old system. Where you only got 15 traits total. Now you can 20 ground traits and all the NPCs get are static stat buffs/nerfs. So there is a serious imbalance of strength between the two.

        The same applies to space.

        Cryptic has taken STO from a fun game pre-LoR and turned it into a 3D Star Trek themed Farmville. Which is what the majority of the players cried and whined to get.

        All it's missing are Doff assignments of "Deliver Fertilizer To Your Neighbor." Wait no.. that basically covered in the Trade/Diplomacy ones of "Deliver Bajoran Barret Incense" and such.

        Of course it also doesn't help they sold out to Preferred Wallet Entertainment.
        Mm5NeXy.gif
      • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,358 Arc User
        I mean, sure if you got a T6 ship will all epic Mk 14s, things might not be as hard as you like.
        You could always go equip Mk X common stuff on your ship. That might make things a bit harder.
        Or go use that T3 or T4 ship with Mk VIII commons.
      • ikonn#1068 ikonn Member Posts: 1,448 Arc User
        The reason...

        Because all the whiners and crybabies who bitched and whined about content being “too hard” would pick up their toys and go home... and play Facebook games again.

        It is what it is because of the possible loss of revenue from those people, and it is a noticeable portion of the playerbase.
        -AoP- Warrior's Blood (KDF Armada) / -AoP- Qu' raD qulbo'Degh / -AoP- Project Phoenix
        Join Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010
      • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,501 Arc User
        coldnapalm wrote: »
        You want a challenge? Do things in T1 ships...or using mark II gear. And when you mastered every mission in this game with each of those limitations...do it with BOTH. Than you have mastered this game and you can start to demand how things should be. Until than, you are just another whiney wannabe who wants to prove that they are "hardcore" by demanding the game be made harder...but only to their own taste. Heaven forbid the game actually gets hard like in fez...and that doesn't count because you said so...right.

        I'll bet you fill all the weapon slots with that Mk II gear, instead of just using one white beam array.

        One Mk II beam array is all a good player needs.

        .

        .

        ;)



      • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
        coldnapalm wrote: »
        coldnapalm wrote: »
        You want a challenge? Do things in T1 ships...or using mark II gear. And when you mastered every mission in this game with each of those limitations...do it with BOTH. Than you have mastered this game and you can start to demand how things should be. Until than, you are just another whiney wannabe who wants to prove that they are "hardcore" by demanding the game be made harder...but only to their own taste. Heaven forbid the game actually gets hard like in fez...and that doesn't count because you said so...right.

        I'll bet you fill all the weapon slots with that Mk II gear, instead of just using one white beam array.

        One Mk II beam array is all a good player needs.

        .

        .

        ;)



        Beam array? Bah, beams are OP yo. Use a turret.

        Of six different energy types.

        And name the ship.

        Taste The Rainbow.
        Mm5NeXy.gif
      • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
        coldnapalm wrote: »
        trennan wrote: »
        coldnapalm wrote: »
        coldnapalm wrote: »
        You want a challenge? Do things in T1 ships...or using mark II gear. And when you mastered every mission in this game with each of those limitations...do it with BOTH. Than you have mastered this game and you can start to demand how things should be. Until than, you are just another whiney wannabe who wants to prove that they are "hardcore" by demanding the game be made harder...but only to their own taste. Heaven forbid the game actually gets hard like in fez...and that doesn't count because you said so...right.

        I'll bet you fill all the weapon slots with that Mk II gear, instead of just using one white beam array.

        One Mk II beam array is all a good player needs.

        .


        ;)



        Beam array? Bah, beams are OP yo. Use a turret.

        Of six different energy types.

        And name the ship.

        Taste The Rainbow.

        Actually...did that already. Got it to 30k pre delta. Dropped it post delta. It was still feasible...but it wasn't really fun anymore.

        Still feasible. It's just not the DPS output that almost everyone chases.

        But if you're looking for a challenge. Set your episode difficulty to elite and play them all in a shuttle.
        Mm5NeXy.gif
      • usskentuckyusskentucky Member Posts: 402 Arc User
        edited November 2017
        Flaming/trolling comments moderated out - BMR
        Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
      • disqord#9557 disqord Member Posts: 567 Arc User
        Lots of hostility going on around here, seriously. Why all the name calling?

        As for the ease of the game, if you don't want to give yourself a challenge by making yourself weaker, there isn't much that can be done about your problem. Though I do somewhat doubt whether or not you've done many elite queues, OP.
      • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,301 Arc User
        coldnapalm wrote: »
        coldnapalm wrote: »
        You want a challenge? Do things in T1 ships...or using mark II gear. And when you mastered every mission in this game with each of those limitations...do it with BOTH. Than you have mastered this game and you can start to demand how things should be. Until than, you are just another whiney wannabe who wants to prove that they are "hardcore" by demanding the game be made harder...but only to their own taste. Heaven forbid the game actually gets hard like in fez...and that doesn't count because you said so...right.

        I'll bet you fill all the weapon slots with that Mk II gear, instead of just using one white beam array.

        One Mk II beam array is all a good player needs.

        .

        .

        ;)



        Beam array? Bah, beams are OP yo. Use a turret.

        @coldnapalm

        Actually turrets are quite viable as are single cannons, but it requires a different focus. Think spamming plasma explosion.
        This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
      • burstorionburstorion Member Posts: 1,750 Arc User

        questerius wrote: »
        coldnapalm wrote: »
        coldnapalm wrote: »
        You want a challenge? Do things in T1 ships...or using mark II gear. And when you mastered every mission in this game with each of those limitations...do it with BOTH. Than you have mastered this game and you can start to demand how things should be. Until than, you are just another whiney wannabe who wants to prove that they are "hardcore" by demanding the game be made harder...but only to their own taste. Heaven forbid the game actually gets hard like in fez...and that doesn't count because you said so...right.

        I'll bet you fill all the weapon slots with that Mk II gear, instead of just using one white beam array.

        One Mk II beam array is all a good player needs.

        .

        .

        ;)



        Beam array? Bah, beams are OP yo. Use a turret.

        @coldnapalm

        Actually turrets are quite viable as are single cannons, but it requires a different focus. Think spamming plasma explosion.

        Protopolaron turrets with plasma explosions on a high crit build are pretty awesome, especially if its a drain boat
      • szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,723 Arc User
        It's pretty difficult to engineer a 'challenge' when the endgame for STO is the wild west of power and feature-creep.

        Furthermore, if they try to rein things back to a more manageable and standardized level.. the game gets flooded with more salt and posterior friction than the river styx.
      • alexraptorralexraptorr Member Posts: 1,192 Arc User
        Cryptic should take a page out of Blizzard and Jagex playbook and release a "Classic" server, before all the power-creep happened.
        I'm thinking a Season 5 server would be great, STF revamp and Doff system introduction, but before Legacy of Romulus and the beginning of the reputation and trait system.
        It was a time when content actually was truly "challenging" and PvP was fun.
        "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
      • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
        Cryptic should take a page out of Blizzard and Jagex playbook and release a "Classic" server, before all the power-creep happened.
        I'm thinking a Season 5 server would be great, STF revamp and Doff system introduction, but before Legacy of Romulus and the beginning of the reputation and trait system.
        It was a time when content actually was truly "challenging" and PvP was fun.

        If they did. I'd have all my characters copied/moved to that server.
        Mm5NeXy.gif
      • theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,985 Arc User
        I never got chance to play the old STFs and Borg invasion of ESD
        NMXb2ph.png
          "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
          -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
        • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
          I never got chance to play the old STFs and Borg invasion of ESD

          It was fun. You actually had to approach the STFs in a more tactical manner. Back when threat and crowd control were just as important as damage.

          Mm5NeXy.gif
        • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
          Cryptic should take a page out of Blizzard and Jagex playbook and release a "Classic" server, before all the power-creep happened.
          I'm thinking a Season 5 server would be great, STF revamp and Doff system introduction, but before Legacy of Romulus and the beginning of the reputation and trait system.
          It was a time when content actually was truly "challenging" and PvP was fun.


          The main thing I'd see people complaining about with this though is the following question, "Why do we only get 15 traits total?"

          Back when you had to pick half you traits for ground and half for space, and you could atually point in to threat generation. Which was helpful for those that could tank Aramek, Manus, and such.
          Mm5NeXy.gif
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