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Flickering ground weapons

frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,346 Arc User
Certain ground weapons flicker when Lighting 2.0 is turned off. The flickering is visible from some angles and distances, but not others. It does not occur when Lighting 2.0 is turned on. Reflection quality has no effect on the flickering.

Video

Note that the flickering is faster in-game than shown in this video. I think that's because not all frames were captured.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVNAKuwwQMI

Steps to reproduce

1. Log on to a Federation character with a M.A.C.O. Phaser Battle Rifle and a tetryon pulsewave.
2. Turn Lighting 2.0 off.
3. Repeat steps 4 and 5 below with the following settings for "Reflection quality": "High", "Low", and "Off".
4. Equip the M.A.C.O. Phaser Battle Rifle. View the rifle from different angles and distances until you see flickering.
5. Equip the tetryon pulsewave. View the pulsewave from different angles and distances until you see flickering.
6. Turn Lighting 2.0 on.
7. Equip the M.A.C.O. Phaser Battle Rifle. Notice that the rifle does not flicker.
8. Equip the tetryon pulsewave. Notice that the pulsewave does not flicker.

Graphics Settings

Tribble 09/15/2017
https://i.imgur.com/Rv1Vy0o.png
https://i.imgur.com/Ce2u8L7.png
https://i.imgur.com/5eGf2j1.png

System Information

OS: Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit), Service Pack 1
CPU: Intel Core i7-4700MQ
RAM: 12 GB
Video card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 765M (2 GB GDDR5)
Waiting for a programmer ...
qVpg1km.png

Comments

  • frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,346 Arc User
    I'm starting to suspect that this doesn't work properly when Lighting 2.0 is turned on either. Compare the two screenshots below.

    Holodeck 09/21/2017: https://i.imgur.com/zBXqo8J.jpg
    Tribble 09/21/2017: https://i.imgur.com/zfXYkmA.jpg

    Both of these screenshots were taken with Lighting 2.0 turned on and all graphics settings the same. They were also taken at the same location: the end of the right hallway at Starfleet Academy. On Holodeck, the M.A.C.O. Phaser Battle Rifle is light gray, almost white. But on Tribble, it's dark gray.

    Here's what I suspect is happening. The texture that's flickering when Lighting 2.0 is off simply isn't rendering at all when Lighting 2.0 is on. The lighter texture on the rifle isn't being shown, which reveals the darker texture underneath.
    Waiting for a programmer ...
    qVpg1km.png
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    Hmmm...interesting. @frtoaster Catch me while I am DOFFing...I will switch over to Tribble. I need to compare and to see your MACO. SFA? Right?

    Do you have access to a fleet on Tribble? You will have to invite me over...I wanna see if the Starbase Tribbles blink.

    BTW....looks like an issue with the setting "Reflection Quality".

    NOTES: (Using the Tetryon Pulsewave):

    On Holodeck Starbase K-7 with TOS Character:

    Lighting 2 OFF: The entire weapon looks different depending on what level Reflection Quality in the settings.
    And with Lighting 2 OFF a player can select between : Off, Low, High.

    Lighting 2 ON: Weapon is reflective and darker. Certain parts of the weapon looks like it has been chromed with black depending on the angle of view (how the light hits it). Note: with Lighting 2 ON the player loses the option to change Reflection Quality.

    Next: Other locales and then off to Tribble.
    Post edited by where2r1 on
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    As noted on this post here:
    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1234535/flickering-tribbles-on-federation-fleet-starbase

    While on the Fed Fleet Starbase map, these weapons will flicker in sync with the Tribbles.
    It appears to be conflict between the way the program "sees" shadows, shading and reflections of light.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,481 Arc User
    The Temporal Defense Initiative Dual Anti-proton Pistols don't flicker they just have a multi-colored lightshow on your hands.

    It also seems that quite a few enemy NPCs die with lightning eminating from their hands.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    The Temporal Defense Initiative Dual Anti-proton Pistols don't flicker they just have a multi-colored lightshow on your hands.

    It also seems that quite a few enemy NPCs die with lightning eminating from their hands.

    Watch the video on You Tube in the original post? That is the flickering we are talking about.

    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,481 Arc User
    Well I think we have a pattern here, stuff is flickering all over the place. I reported earlier that the pylons on the center floor Console on the Delta Flyer also flickers. I am not talking about the the normal lighting to indicate a Console is active. This is the same thing you showed with the weapon above.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    ltminns wrote: »
    Well I think we have a pattern here, stuff is flickering all over the place. I reported earlier that the pylons on the center floor Console on the Delta Flyer also flickers. I am not talking about the the normal lighting to indicate a Console is active. This is the same thing you showed with the weapon above.

    You have Lighting 2 OFF, right? And are you on Tribble?
    I predict: will get worse when this Tribble build changes moves over to Holodeck.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,346 Arc User
    where2r1 wrote: »
    On Holodeck Starbase K-7 with TOS Character:

    Lighting 2 OFF: The entire weapon looks different depending on what level Reflection Quality in the settings.
    And with Lighting 2 OFF a player can select between : Off, Low, High.

    Lighting 2 ON: Weapon is reflective and darker. Certain parts of the weapon looks like it has been chromed with black depending on the angle of view (how the light hits it). Note: with Lighting 2 ON the player loses the option to change Reflection Quality.

    All this is correct, but I'm not certain reflection quality is related to this bug. As you've noticed, when Lighting 2.0 is turned on, it takes control of reflections and doesn't allow the user to change "Reflection quality". I was trying to see if I could stop the flickering by changing "Reflection quality", but obviously that didn't work.

    where2r1 wrote: »
    As noted on this post here:
    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1234535/flickering-tribbles-on-federation-fleet-starbase

    While on the Fed Fleet Starbase map, these weapons will flicker in sync with the Tribbles.
    It appears to be conflict between the way the program "sees" shadows, shading and reflections of light.

    I agree the bug is somehow related to lighting (that would explain the differences due to camera angle and distance I was seeing), but exactly what aspect of lighting, I'm not sure.

    To any devs who might be reading this, there are two problems:

    1. When Lighting 2.0 is off, some ground weapons tend to flicker.

    2. When the ground weapons don't flicker, they may appear too dark. This usually happens when Lighting 2.0 is on, but can also happen when Lighting 2.0 is off in some environments.

    Both of these problems are affected by camera angle and lighting. I had trouble reproducing the flickering on ESD and the Dranuur Colony. On ESD, when Lighting 2.0 is off, the ground weapons appear too dark in certain spots. Small movements back and forth or to the left and right can drastically change the brightness of the weapon.

    Both of these problems, the flickering and the darkness, also affect the tribbles on the Federation starbase.

    Flickering tribbles on Federation fleet starbase

    ltminns wrote: »
    Well I think we have a pattern here, stuff is flickering all over the place. I reported earlier that the pylons on the center floor Console on the Delta Flyer also flickers. I am not talking about the the normal lighting to indicate a Console is active. This is the same thing you showed with the weapon above.
    where2r1 wrote: »
    You have Lighting 2 OFF, right? And are you on Tribble?
    I predict: will get worse when this Tribble build changes moves over to Holodeck.

    Clearly, they have a general graphics bug. As I said before, they need to assign a graphics programmer to look at this, not just change the assets to work around the bug, as they did with the flickering bottles. There is no way any of us are going to be able to check every object in the game to see if it's flickering.

    Flickering bottles at Starfleet Academy
    Waiting for a programmer ...
    qVpg1km.png
  • frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,346 Arc User
    This bug is still happening and not just on Tribble. It's been live on Holodeck for some time now. I was talking to some friends about it tonight. They saw someone's weapon flickering on Starbase 39 and managed to find my old bug report. Interestingly, even though they both have the same graphics card (NVIDIA GTX 760), one of them saw flickering from most angles, while the other only saw it from a few angles. This was the case even after they matched graphics settings.

    Graphics Settings
    https://imgur.com/a/rMqtH

    Flickering from most angles
    Driver version: 382.33
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2mP9Hvrx8s


    Flickering from a few angles
    Driver version: 368.22
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEAnexn3Aw8
    Waiting for a programmer ...
    qVpg1km.png
  • iamynaughtiamynaught Member Posts: 1,285 Arc User
    Been having this issue on Holodeck for months. It's become less annoying most likely due to me simply getting used to it, but it is distracting at times. I gave up on it ever being fixed. I still hope it does get fixed, of course, I'm just not going to bother sending in more bug reports.

    For the record, I am not using lighting 2.0 and the card I'm using is an old AMD Radeon R7 200.
    Hello. My name is iamynaught and I am an altaholic.

    Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.
  • frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,346 Arc User
    frtoaster wrote: »
    To any devs who might be reading this, there are two problems:

    1. When Lighting 2.0 is off, some ground weapons tend to flicker.

    2. When the ground weapons don't flicker, they may appear too dark. This usually happens when Lighting 2.0 is on, but can also happen when Lighting 2.0 is off in some environments.

    Both of these problems are affected by camera angle and lighting. I had trouble reproducing the flickering on ESD and the Dranuur Colony. On ESD, when Lighting 2.0 is off, the ground weapons appear too dark in certain spots. Small movements back and forth or to the left and right can drastically change the brightness of the weapon.

    Both of these problems, the flickering and the darkness, also affect the tribbles on the Federation starbase.

    Flickering tribbles on Federation fleet starbase

    An Update

    When I tested this on Tribble before Season 14, ground weapons did not flicker on ESD. Now, they do, and it happens on both Holodeck and Tribble. Considering that ESD is one of the most frequently visited maps in the game, this may explain why we saw an increase in reports of flickering at the start of Season 14.5.

    I want to emphasize once again that Lighting 2.0 isn't working correctly either. Movable objects like ground weapons and tribbles often appear too dark; there's something wrong with how they're lit. Look at how dark ground weapons look on DS9:

    https://i.imgur.com/zCscALl.jpg (MACO Phaser Battle Rifle)
    https://i.imgur.com/s5GXdC5.jpg (Adapted MACO Phaser Pulsewave Rifle)
    https://i.imgur.com/Ysr0zge.jpg (Antiproton Sniper Rifle)

    Lastly, this is may be unrelated, but the lighting on ESD has changed. When I turn on Lighting 2.0, it's darker now than it was before. I don't see the glaring bright spots on Tribble that I do on Holodeck.
    Waiting for a programmer ...
    qVpg1km.png
  • frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,346 Arc User
    Update 2

    Having stared at this bug for over half a year, I would like to explain what I currently believe is causing it. First of all, the bug affects what I would classify as "movable objects". This includes everything from ground weapons to tribbles to mugs. Even though some mugs are fixed in place, the graphics code treats them the same as their movable brethren.

    Lighting 2.0 On

    When Lighting 2.0 is on, movable objects often appear too dark or too light. If the object is lit from one side, the side facing the light is too bright and the opposite side is too dark. The gradient is way too steep; there shouldn't be such a sharp transition from light to dark. Furthermore, if the object is lit from two opposite sides, then contrary to expectation, both sides appear dark. So surrounding a movable object with lights makes the whole thing appear dark.

    Lighting 2.0 Off

    When Lighting 2.0 is off, movable objects tend to flicker. This doesn't happen on every map, but it happens on most ground maps — Starfleet Academy, the Federation fleet starbase, Drozana, Klingon Academy, and First City, just to name a few. (The Dranuur Colony is an exception.) In my judgment, the flickering has the same root cause as the Lighting 2.0 bug described above. The game can't decide whether the object should be light or dark, so it keeps alternating between two states.


    Vanilla, don't eat this post.
    Waiting for a programmer ...
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