A quick question for @baddmoonrizin - should this topic go in the FTC collection yet? We've already got what, seven or eight threads dissecting all of the imaginary issues with a TV show none of us have seen yet?
What is the problem of having a new thread about this. Just enjoy reading it and move on.
There better be a very good reason for why the Klingons and their ships look nothing like what they should. ... A Star Trek fan should be able to watch a scene and tell that the aliens are Klingon without needing anyone to point it out.
So every Star Trek fan who were the first to see the Klingons in TMP had no idea who/what they were and needed someone to point them out?
There is a good reason the Klingons look different. The IP owner decided to update them.
There is a huge difference between updating them due to improvements in prosthetics and updating them so that they are completely unrecognizable. The Into Darkness Klingons would be an update due to an improvement in prosthetics while the Discovery Klingons are an update to make them completely unrecognizable. Ancient Klingons, Future Klingons, parallel universe Klingons, and Klingons slaved by the Hurq would all be decent reasons why they look that way. Changing them just because the IP owner wants to will just make a lot of fans ticked off.
(...)Ancient Klingons, Future Klingons, parallel universe Klingons, and Klingons slaved by the Hurq would all be decent reasons why they look that way. Changing them just because the IP owner wants to will just make a lot of fans ticked off.
We don't know anything of that yet, though. We simply don't know anything about DSC.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
But there's actually no explanation in there, aside from "you'll see" - so unless DSC just brushes over it we still don't know a thing.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Ancient Klingons, Future Klingons, parallel universe Klingons, and Klingons slaved by the Hurq would all be decent reasons why they look that way.
And for all we know, that's the exact explanation for why some obscure Houses have members who look like that. Perhaps they're atavistic ancient Klingons. Perhaps they're agents of far-future Klingons, seeded to change history like the Na'khul. Perhaps they're the remains of what the Hur'q did to the Klingons during their enslavement.
We don't know yet. You're speculating in an absence of data. In the wise words of Sherlock Holmes in A Study In Scarlet, "It is a capital mistake to theorize before you have all the evidence. It biases the judgment."
The tech doesn't really bother me, they -had- to make it look more realistic than the TOS style. What seriously annoys me, to the point that I may not watch even a single episode, is their pointless and idiotic decision to reinvent the iconic look of Klingons into something that doesn't resemble any previous incarnation. My preference would have been TOS style augment virus infected Klingons, though I could have also accepted normal Klingons, but this direction they took is so far out of left field and so moronic that it completely destroys any and all excitement I felt for premier of this series.
Really? That's your breaking point? (Well, that and the assumption that these are what all the Klingons look like now, which we've been specifically told is not the case.)
Really? That's your breaking point? (Well, that and the assumption that these are what all the Klingons look like now, which we've been specifically told is not the case.)
I read a quote somewhere stating that this is, infact, how all the Klingons now look, and that we will even be seeing a member of the house of kor with the new look.
Why are you showing Kol as an example? He's blue, that's where the differences between him and every other TOSFilms,TNG/DS9/VGR/ENT/ID Klingons begin and end. That's literal it, his skin colour.
If your point of contention is the random Klingons on T'Kumva's ship (excluding the man himself) than you have a point, their elongated craniums and much heavier facial makeup is a step equal to TMPs change from TOS and more than the changes between, say, TNG and DS9.
If your point of contention is Kol or T'Kumva then you're complaining for the sake of hearing your own voice (or seeing your own text anyway) because you could put them in any single episode of TOSFilms,TNG/DS9/VGR/ENT/ID and they would not look out of place in the slightest (yes I get one is blue and one is purple, that's not a massive change even if it dosn't make sense). There is not a single radical thing about the design or style of Kol or T'Kumva in the slightest.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Why are you showing Kol as an example? He's blue, that's where the differences between him and every other TOSFilms,TNG/DS9/VGR/ENT/ID Klingons begin and end. That's literal it, his skin colour.
If your point of contention is the random Klingons on T'Kumva's ship (excluding the man himself) than you have a point, their elongated craniums and much heavier facial makeup is a step equal to TMPs change from TOS and more than the changes between, say, TNG and DS9.
If your point of contention is Kol or T'Kumva then you're complaining for the sake of hearing your own voice (or seeing your own text anyway) because you could put them in any single episode of TOSFilms,TNG/DS9/VGR/ENT/ID and they would not look out of place in the slightest (yes I get one is blue and one is purple, that's not a massive change even if it dosn't make sense). There is not a single radical thing about the design or style of Kol or T'Kumva in the slightest.
The blue color isn't the only problem, there's also the bizarre and unnecessary sensory nodes along the head and the complete lack of hair. A more accurate statement would be that the similarities between Kol and TNG Klingons begin and end with his head ridges.
Name three other bald Klingons from the existing films or series.
Why three? One shows the precedence.
It seys a precedent for it as a hairstyle chosen by some Klingons, nothing more. As he is the only notable example of a bald Klingon it does not set any kind of precedent for Klingons to be universally hairless.
Chang also had eyebrows and facial hair, something TRIBBLE Klingons lack as well.
There were at least one or two bald (never named, of course - Capt. Koloth and Arne Darvin were the only Klingons who had names) crewmen in TOS: "The Trouble With Tribbles". (And speaking of radical redesign of iconic characters... Heck, Koloth even made an appearance in DS9, in full 24th-century Klink regalia!)
Name three other bald Klingons from the existing films or series.
Why three? One shows the precedence.
We're talking about cultural/fashion practices, not law, so an example of one, is only that; An example of one, it doesn't set a precedent which other examples/laws are shaped by With regards Klingon hairstyles, there's certainly no reason why Klingons can't shave their heads. But of all the Klingons given screentime over fifty years, all Chang gives us, is the example of one very eccentric guy. A cultural anomaly. (Perhaps, if we want to retcon, someone who holds true to the ideals of the Old Houses, so tries to emulate them physically) That you've been able to show a bald Klingon, doesn't invalidate evilmark's point: (With the exception of Chang and the Into Darkness Klingon) every Klingon we've seen, had hair. This is a departure from that, and for no other reason than 'because we can'. Change for the sake of change is not progress or improvement, just change. If they give us the reason that these Klingons shave themselves, fine: Cultural practice. But without explanation, it's just another example of why Discovery appears to be little more than an ongoing trainwreck, blundering from one missed opportunity to another...
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
The blue color isn't the only problem, there's also the bizarre and unnecessary sensory nodes along the head and the complete lack of hair. A more accurate statement would be that the similarities between Kol and TNG Klingons begin and end with his head ridges.
The first is present on TMP and ID Klingons and feasibly present on every other non-TOS Klingon or Chang (who is significantly different from every other Klingon himself), the second is the most pathetic 'difference' ever spotted by anyone here in this thread (not just you obviously, I'm just replying to you). Baldness (including eyebrows and facial hair) dosn't even rank as a difference it's that daft to even mention it.
It is perfectly accurate (and will be even after I've dissected patrickngo's ramblings below) that the skin colour is exactly the point where significant changes begin and end.
a row of ports along the side of his head like a 1920's ocean liner...
The pitting down the sides of his head and down his neck are similar to features seen on TMP Klingons and on the ID Klingons and can feasibly exist on every single other Klingon in the franchise who isn't Chang or from TOS.
That's it. that, and language are the ONLY things he (or the rest of ST:D "Klingons") share with Klingons either BEFORE the 2250's, or after about 2279 (or thereabouts-whenever TMP was supposed to be set.)
This is again incorrect based on what we've seen so far and stands to continue to be incorrect when the show airs.
Kol's a completely different species, different morphology, different functionality...as stated by the showrunners themselves-the only shared points being a language and a name.
And there's that basement dewlling spirit again, well done. You are right and the showrunners (and all other fans) are wrong.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
The blue color isn't the only problem, there's also the bizarre and unnecessary sensory nodes along the head and the complete lack of hair. A more accurate statement would be that the similarities between Kol and TNG Klingons begin and end with his head ridges.
Baldness (including eyebrows and facial hair) dosn't even rank as a difference it's that daft to even mention it.
There's a difference between baldness, and the entire species completely lacking hair follicles as the showrunners have said is now the case. From TNG -> ENT Klingons had a very distinctive hairstyle, and now we are being told that the species never had any hair at all. Pointless retcon that only serves as Fuller's way of leaving his own mark on the franchise.
Comments
What is the problem of having a new thread about this. Just enjoy reading it and move on.
There is a huge difference between updating them due to improvements in prosthetics and updating them so that they are completely unrecognizable. The Into Darkness Klingons would be an update due to an improvement in prosthetics while the Discovery Klingons are an update to make them completely unrecognizable. Ancient Klingons, Future Klingons, parallel universe Klingons, and Klingons slaved by the Hurq would all be decent reasons why they look that way. Changing them just because the IP owner wants to will just make a lot of fans ticked off.
We don't know anything of that yet, though. We simply don't know anything about DSC.
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But there's actually no explanation in there, aside from "you'll see" - so unless DSC just brushes over it we still don't know a thing.
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We don't know yet. You're speculating in an absence of data. In the wise words of Sherlock Holmes in A Study In Scarlet, "It is a capital mistake to theorize before you have all the evidence. It biases the judgment."
I read a quote somewhere stating that this is, infact, how all the Klingons now look, and that we will even be seeing a member of the house of kor with the new look.
If your point of contention is the random Klingons on T'Kumva's ship (excluding the man himself) than you have a point, their elongated craniums and much heavier facial makeup is a step equal to TMPs change from TOS and more than the changes between, say, TNG and DS9.
If your point of contention is Kol or T'Kumva then you're complaining for the sake of hearing your own voice (or seeing your own text anyway) because you could put them in any single episode of TOSFilms,TNG/DS9/VGR/ENT/ID and they would not look out of place in the slightest (yes I get one is blue and one is purple, that's not a massive change even if it dosn't make sense). There is not a single radical thing about the design or style of Kol or T'Kumva in the slightest.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
The blue color isn't the only problem, there's also the bizarre and unnecessary sensory nodes along the head and the complete lack of hair. A more accurate statement would be that the similarities between Kol and TNG Klingons begin and end with his head ridges.
Name three other bald Klingons from the existing films or series.
The only one I can think of, is the guy who removed his helmet in Into Darkness (perhaps he was Kelvin Timeline Chang)
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
It seys a precedent for it as a hairstyle chosen by some Klingons, nothing more. As he is the only notable example of a bald Klingon it does not set any kind of precedent for Klingons to be universally hairless.
Chang also had eyebrows and facial hair, something TRIBBLE Klingons lack as well.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
The first is present on TMP and ID Klingons and feasibly present on every other non-TOS Klingon or Chang (who is significantly different from every other Klingon himself), the second is the most pathetic 'difference' ever spotted by anyone here in this thread (not just you obviously, I'm just replying to you). Baldness (including eyebrows and facial hair) dosn't even rank as a difference it's that daft to even mention it.
It is perfectly accurate (and will be even after I've dissected patrickngo's ramblings below) that the skin colour is exactly the point where significant changes begin and end.
Really? Because you're about to show yourself as not being very observant.
Very minor, no more radical than the difference between TMP and Worf.
Incorrect, he has thicker than usual ridging around the nose (a feature that's existed since at least TNG) but only two nostrils.
The pitting down the sides of his head and down his neck are similar to features seen on TMP Klingons and on the ID Klingons and can feasibly exist on every single other Klingon in the franchise who isn't Chang or from TOS.
Very slight and present on several TNG era female Klingons with shorter hair as the actors hair is placed under a cap.
A feature you've just made up.
His eyes are not recessed, his forehead is protruding. resembling some of the much heavier makeup work done in later TNG and DS9.
That's not a observation on makeup, that's just you being silly pretending Klingons are real aliens.
Very tiny difference again.
Very incorrect, he also has nose ridging, similar skull shape, eye ridging, same nose and ear shape and so on.
This is again incorrect based on what we've seen so far and stands to continue to be incorrect when the show airs.
And there's that basement dewlling spirit again, well done. You are right and the showrunners (and all other fans) are wrong.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
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There's a difference between baldness, and the entire species completely lacking hair follicles as the showrunners have said is now the case. From TNG -> ENT Klingons had a very distinctive hairstyle, and now we are being told that the species never had any hair at all. Pointless retcon that only serves as Fuller's way of leaving his own mark on the franchise.
Duck season!