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[PC] Son'a Dreadnought Promo!

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  • stark2kstark2k Member Posts: 1,467 Arc User
    Pure and utter tripe

    Son'a are barely interesting at all, and the ship stats is all over the place - When are we getting another FACTION Bundle? A New Faction that is, we are long over due.

    Seems like they are ever releasing the least popular Star Trek lore ships in these R&D Promo packs, & neglecting real content, end game content. I am waiting for a Cardassian mini-Faction with applicable fleet starbase holding, and Delta Recruit/AoY recruit theme.
    StarTrekIronMan.jpg
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 3,196 Arc User
    I want the Cardassian faction to be its own faction.
  • slifox#0768 slifox Member Posts: 379 Arc User
    > @reyan01 said:
    > nommo#5819 wrote: »
    > Sorry Cryptic I've already been taught a valuable lesson about my STO luck with trying a Keys & Lock Boxes promotion, a R&D
    > I'll give the Phoenix box a pass here, pesonally, as I don't care about the Epic tokens and open those boxes for Phoenix upgrades. However, no denying that the odds of winning an Epic token are preposterous.
    >
    > As for lock boxes, I only open those for Lobi (and sell the keys) - never expect to win anything from them and am therefore never disappointed when I inevitably don't.
    >
    > And I point-blank refuse to even THINK about opening the R&D boxes. If I do buy the stupid things it'll be to sell them.
    >
    > Honestly do think that the odds for winning anything are insulting.

    > @goodscotch said:
    > Why would they put THIS SHIP in an R&D Promo box? A T6 Vor'cha or T6 Nova I could see, but this thing?

    As a new player for at least a full year now, I've learned my lesson with these boxes, but at great cost.

    God, a T6 Vor'Cha in an R&D Promo box would make me furious.
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    I guess Cryptic used up all the good ships and now we're sticking an engine on what was just a satellite...
    Do we know that for sure? We saw so little of the thing in Insurrection that's it's hard to say much of anything about it. We do know that:
    1: it's HUGE, the Ent-E was tiny in comparison
    2: it had an internal power core of some sort
    3: it had shields
    4: it had internal lifesupport
    5: it had a structure analogous to a bridge.

    We didn't:
    1: see any crew stationed on board(it's possible this was a safety precaution)
    2: see or hear anyone discuss how it got into position(yes it was mentioned that the Son'a built it, but not where)

    I believe there is a scene where it's actually flying. Right after Picard finds the holoship, Ru'afo and Dougherty visit him in his ready room to discuss the release of the Son'a. Shortly before their arrival, multiple ships can be seen. One of them looks actually very similar to the weapon ship.

    Star%2BTrek%2BInsurrection%2BSon%27a%2Bfleet.jpg
  • eldarion79eldarion79 Member Posts: 1,679 Arc User
    Name that Class!!!! In fact name the other Son'a ships.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    risian4 wrote: »
    I guess Cryptic used up all the good ships and now we're sticking an engine on what was just a satellite...
    Do we know that for sure? We saw so little of the thing in Insurrection that's it's hard to say much of anything about it. We do know that:
    1: it's HUGE, the Ent-E was tiny in comparison
    2: it had an internal power core of some sort
    3: it had shields
    4: it had internal lifesupport
    5: it had a structure analogous to a bridge.

    We didn't:
    1: see any crew stationed on board(it's possible this was a safety precaution)
    2: see or hear anyone discuss how it got into position(yes it was mentioned that the Son'a built it, but not where)

    I believe there is a scene where it's actually flying. Right after Picard finds the holoship, Ru'afo and Dougherty visit him in his ready room to discuss the release of the Son'a. Shortly before their arrival, multiple ships can be seen. One of them looks actually very similar to the weapon ship.

    Star%2BTrek%2BInsurrection%2BSon%27a%2Bfleet.jpg
    Ah, forgot about that because it happened so early. :) So yeah, apparently it can move on it's own.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    stark2k wrote: »
    Pure and utter tripe

    Son'a are barely interesting at all, and the ship stats is all over the place - When are we getting another FACTION Bundle? A New Faction that is, we are long over due.

    Seems like they are ever releasing the least popular Star Trek lore ships in these R&D Promo packs, & neglecting real content, end game content. I am waiting for a Cardassian mini-Faction with applicable fleet starbase holding, and Delta Recruit/AoY recruit theme.
    When? "Victory is life!" that's when. :p
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • goodscotchgoodscotch Member Posts: 1,680 Arc User
    God, a T6 Vor'Cha in an R&D Promo box would make me furious.

    I was lucky to get a D7 Temporal Battlecruiser on my 8th R&D Box.
    klingon-bridge.jpg




  • mephizton2092mephizton2092 Member Posts: 110 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    As long as the gamble ships arent needed to actually play the game, and they keep the game alive. I don''t really care about missing thsoe ships. I prefer zen ships cause they unlock for all my chars on account. Have some lockbox ships from auction. People will spend enourmos ammounts on ships just to be one of the few, or to have them first, or just to own them. If that keeps my game alive, let them have that fun.
    Some ships look great or give nostalgia, and yes i have to save EC/or zen to keys to sale to get them, or never own them. Maybe 1 day i own them, maybe not. Meanwhile im having fun with the ships i have or save up for in Zenstore.
    "Reports of our depression are vastly exaggerated."
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  • bubblegirl2015bubblegirl2015 Member Posts: 830 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    goodscotch wrote: »
    Why would they put THIS SHIP in an R&D Promo box? A T6 Vor'cha or T6 Nova I could see, but this thing?

    T6 Vor'Cha or Nova unlikely to be prize-box candidates.

    I agree as well...Ugly ducklings dont make it to a box. Then again another's man trash is others' golden treasure normal-1.gif​​
    Wiki editor http://sto.gamepedia.com
    Original STO beta tester.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    As long as the gamble ships arent needed to actually play the game, and they keep the game alive. I don''t really care about missing thsoe ships. I prefer zen ships cause they unlock for all my chars on account. Have some lockbox ships from auction. People will spend enourmos ammounts on ships just to be one of the few, or to have them first, or just to own them. If that keeps my game alive, let them have that fun.
    Some ships look great or give nostalgia, and yes i have to save EC/or zen to keys to sale to get them, or never own them. Maybe 1 day i own them, maybe not. Meanwhile im having fun with the ships i have or save up for in Zenstore.
    I have a few of them. But as a general rule, I'd rather sell them than use them.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • grendelthewise#0990 grendelthewise Member Posts: 640 Arc User
    Nice ship , but not for me. Good luck to those who get this.
    Fleet Admiral of the U.S.S. ATTILA KHAN-CDA (NX-921911).
  • paddy#3322 paddy Member Posts: 203 Arc User
    This ship just sort of sighs "meh". Considering the cost in even trying to get one of these I'm curious why anyone would bother. I mean, the movie was terrible (there I said it), and the Son'a are a completely forgettable evil faction so who would waste the resources playing the lockbox lottery for one of these? Give us a playable Borg cube or a Doomsday Machine pet or something iconic from the movies and series. I don't mind spending money but I refuse to throw it away.
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  • sunfranckssunfrancks Member Posts: 3,925 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Well, assume the interest in the So'na dreanought was pretty low. They just turned it into an infinity box.

    Yeah, they're pretty quick when something might affect their bank balance metrics.

    Just a shame they're not as quick else where in the game...
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  • terraptus#0769 terraptus Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    Ooo, a Science Dreadnought! After being underwhelmed by the Son'a Command OR Science vessel (labeled that due to poor Boff layout customization), I'm excited by this release! It's an R&D Promo pack so THIS SHIP HAS TO BE GOOD! ...Right?
    • The pets are nimble, have a mini-energy siphon, and a passive hull leech which makes them a fair bit tougher to kill!
    • Deploy Consumption Array - When in this mode, you get a passive boost to drain. On top of that, you absorb a portion of all incoming energy damage! Plus, after taking enough damage, you get a 180 degree arc radiation damage to foes as well as some hull healing.

      The trade-off, you can't use full impulse. And you'll sail at a snail's pace. It's possibly a good thing you have a new Space Trait that will pull enemies towards you, because you sure won't be able to get to them very quickly!

      From this innate ship ability, we are nudged to towards drain builds and tank builds. So when evaluating the console, trait, and Boff layout, we'll explore that!
    • 1.25 Shield modifier. Very low for a Science Dread. By comparison, the Annorax is a 1.45 modifier. Even its "sister ship", the Son'a Intel Battlecruiser has a 1.35 modifier!
      The lower modifier does hurt the tankiness of the ship, and makes a Science Ultimate Captain Specialization Build less attractive, but we can probably heal enough with this Dread's gimmicks to be just fine, it's not a deal breaker- just a head scratcher.
    • Thermolytic Injector console - I rather like this a lot more than I expected. Decent radiation damage up front, okay damage over time radiation that can be boosted (Temporal Spec: Entropic Amplification), and a scaling damage resistance debuff DOT. And if that weren't enough, it's stacking hull healing is quite tanky when facing down a fleet of ships.

      The catch? ONLY works if the Consumption Array ability is deployed. This has big implications we'll dig into shortly.

      Passive bonuses aren't bad. The bonus to power transfer rate is good for drain builds AND might empower you to drop an EPS skill point in the tree and move it someplace else. The hull restoration and HP boost further support the tanky features of the ship.

      The downside, like all special consoles, is that you can only use the ability once every couple minutes. For short runs, this won't be worth it (ISA), but for longer missions, I'd definitely slot this in one of the engineering consoles of the ship!

      The BIG downside: it can only be equipped on a Son'a ship.

      Even if you DO equip it on a Son'a ship, the healing effect will only work on the Son'a Dread due to it being the only Son'a ship with a Consumption Array. -_-

      I have to knock the console down for that because any dreams you had of running a drain tank on a Son'a Intel Battlecruiser with this console are pretty much dashed. And folks who want to run this on a superior Science ship, like say the Annorax or Sphere Builder Edoulg are also out of luck.

      This is an R&D Promo ship. Restricting the consoles this severely to only Son'a ships- and then making a feature of that console ONLY available on a certain Son'a ship- is ridiculously restrictive and limits the appeal of the promotion.

      Rating: 3/5.
    • Starship Trait: Collect and Consume
      Activating any Subsystem Drain or Shield Drain Bridge Officer Ability applies an instant Pull to all foes within 5km.

      The good: Unlike say, Gravity Well I, this actually pulls targets without the need for high Control skill! But it pulls targets TOWARDS your ship. (Kind of like the Graga Mal Doff which turns Tractor Beam Repulsors into Attractors)

      The bad: If you're running Science and torps, you want to scoop up ships and deposit them in one spot, drain the area, and make them go boom on top of each other... not pull them closer to you from all directions when you drain them.

      Fire at Will Beam builds, on the other hand, will like it more. It lets you effectively drop Tractor beam Repulsors from your Science Boff, freeing it up for say, Destabilizing Resonance Beam I (Lt. Sci Skill). And you get to free up your Doff slot from Graga Mal.

      AND you get a nice little hull heal for using it, further adding to the tankiness of your drain build.

      The SUPER BAD: You're sacrificing a SPACE TRAIT for the sake of a Lt. Science slot and a Doff slot. TERRIBLE trade.

      If you want to pull ships towards you, take my advice and run Lt. Science Tractor Beam Repulsors I and Graga Mal Tractor Beam Officer. Yeah, that Doff is pricey, but nowhere NEAR as pricey as an R&D Promo ship (Which is now even more expensive as it's been changed to an infinite R&D promo box)!

      Trust me here, you need that SPACE TRAIT slot to run your Drain/Beam Fire at Will build to its fullest. There's a cheaper, better way to pull mobs towards you and the tiny radiation DOT and hull heal is not worth the sacrifice.

      If you do want to use Collect and Consume, then I suppose you could drop the Invincible Trait and trust your tanky build to keep you alive when things get hot. But given that the console does most of this, I would recommend keeping the console, dropping the trait.

      Rating: 1/5
    • Console layout: 4 Engineering, 5 Science, 2 Tactical. In season 12, this would have been a wonderful layout because you'd be slotting a bunch of Embassy Plasma Amplifier consoles and watching everything go boom (while healing you)!

      However, in season 13 Tactical consoles are more important. With the necessity to use Science consoles to help boost EPG, DRAIN, and CTRL skill (and on a drain build, MOSTLY DRAIN), and the removal of the 30 second crit chance buff from the Science Ultimate, Probability Window, getting as much crit chance as possible is very important. Even if you're a Romulan and have easy access to Superior Romulan Operative at every station, you're probably going to want to slot at least 3, and preferably more, Vulnerability Locators.

      A 3/5/3 layout would have been palatable and made sense to retain the tanky theme, whereas 2/5/4 layout would have been ideal for DPSers.

      As it stands, some captains who were seeking to make a Science Drain Beam Dread Build will probably hard pass- which is troubling, because the Space Trait of the ship was seemingly designed with them in mind, but the console layout is too tanky for its own good.

      Captains who are seeking a superior console layout Science Dread for this season, try the Annorax: it's 2 Engineering, 5 Science, 4 Tactical.
    • Now that we have explored the gimmicks, let's get to what will really make or break this ship: the Boff layout!

      Full Commander Science slot that is NOT tied to a specialization? VERY nice! This means that you can do your bread and butter Gravity Well III, Subspace Vortex III, and Destabilizing Resonance Beam Trifecta without the need for slotting a second Science Boff!
      However, you'll probably want to anyway because you still need to have some drain going to get the most out of this theme, so you'd want energy siphon or tachyon beam (with the Geneva's Improved Tachyon Beam AOE shield drain), so chances are we're going to need to get a second Science Boff somewhere of at LEAST Lt. grade.

      Lt. Tactical. Ugh. No High Yield III, Torp Spread III, or FAW III out of the box.

      This will push us towards either using our universal Boff slot for Tactical (such a waste), or calling it a day for tactical and slotting Lt. Attack Pattern Beta I and Ensign Tactical Team 1 (especially if using Zemok Doff for Pattern cooldown and/or All Hands on Deck Space Trait for Science and Captain Ability cooldown- both very nice).

      Alternatively, you could drop Beta and slot either Beam Fire at Will II for Beam Boats (you lose 10 percent damage compared to FAW III, and even MORE dps due to loss of Beta) OR you can slot Torpedo Spread II/High Yield II for your Exotic Torp boat. This will let you get the special ability procs from your Gravimetric Torpedo and the like, which is probably worth the tradeoff provided the abilities are proccing reliably- which it probably won't.

      Of all the limitations, this one hurts the most. The lack of a Lt. Cmndr Tactical slot baked in puts it at a severe disadvantage when compared to other top Science ships like the Annorax and Edoulg, which don't pressure you into using your Universal seat for a tactical Boff the way this Son'a ship does. -_-

      Lt. Cmndr Engineering. Robust. Lets you use Emergency Power to Weapons/Auxiliary III, Reverse Shield Polarity I (for the tank theme again), Structural Integrity Collapse II, Endothermic Beam I, or a heal if you like, really deep buff/healing options. However, I'm curious why this seat did not get the Temporal or Intel specialization. Generally, of all the abilities one can sacrifice, the Engineering seat is preferred as you want to protect your Tac or Sci slots, so important with the balance changes of season 13 where cooldowns for abilities are much tougher to manage and copies of abilities could be needed.

      Ensign Universal Temporal. So, let me see if I understand this: we can slot either an entropy builder, or consumer, but not BOTH? SMH.

      This could have been avoided with a Lt. Universal Temporal seat so the specialization can function. We need to build entropy so that we can consume it!

      Forget Temporal, I'd slot a tactical officer here for the extra crit chance boost from Superior Romulan operative which can be found at Fleet Embassy (if Fed/KDF). The skill? Kemocite-laced weaponry I. If going Science, probably would want Hazard Emitters- but most likely would go Tac atm.

      Lt. Cmndr Intel Universal seat. SWEET! This is what the Son'a Command Science vessel desperately needed to be viable.

      And a change I hope somehow, someway they make so that the Son'a Command Science vessel CAN be viable because it should be the right kind of special. Borticus, make it happen pretty please? X_X

      With a Lt. Cmndr Engineering slot satisfying our need for buffs/heals, we are free to assign this slot to either Tactical or Science.

      Since there is only a Lt. Tactical slot, there will be massive pressure for a Fire At Will Beam Boat to go Tac here. You'd slot Beam Fire at Will III, possibly Beam Fire at Will II (as your backup if running Drake), or Torpedo Spread/High Yield II if doing some kind of Supercharged weapons Trait setup. Otherwise, this is where your Override Subsystem Safeties II Intel ability will go and it's still potent enough this season to be worth slotting.

      Ensign Tactical slot would be Tactical Team I or Kemocite Weapony I or Override Subsystem Safeties I, whichever hasn't been assigned to the ship yet.

      If you go this route, and still want to be a drain Beam boat, I'd drop Lt. Destabilizing Resonance Beam ability on the Cmndr Science Boff, and make it Tachyon Beam. That, with the Geneva's Improved Tachyon Beam (AOE shield drain) is well worth the trade and fits the drain build theme nicely

      If you embrace Science, and in season 13 I absolutely embrace the space magic cheese, you have the option of using the Lt. Cmndr Sci slot for Override Subsystem Safeties III. Resist this.

      The power boost is not as potent as it was in previous seasons due to the new formula that makes high power levels (napkin) like half as effective as before. This is where you'd slot either Destabilizing Resonance Beam II or Tachyon Beam III.

      If you have embraced the Science Drain theme, I recommend Tachyon Beam III for the most bang for your buck, with the Lt. Destabilizing Resonance Beam I ability being fit on your Cmndr Science Boff slot.

      The remaining two slots could be OSS I or II, and your choice of Science skill.

      There will be those who write this ship off completely for only having a Lt. Tactical station. And to be fair, that is a troublesome design choice. The Boff layout IS inferior at present when compared to the more robust seating of the Annorax and the Edoulg Science ships.
      However, unlike the Science Command OR Science vessel, at least you have the possibility of overcoming that limitation by way of the Lt. Cmndr Universal seat which can be adapted to make your Son'a ship a good beam boat or exotic torp boat.

      I give this ship props for giving us a Commander Science seat free of a specialization, but the lack of full Commander Specialization seating on an R&D Promo ship is a minus to many and the value will be questioned.

      The Ensign Temporal Universal seat, which can only slotted an entropy builder or consumer- but not both- makes using Temporal seating pointless and I suspect most captains will pass entirely.

      We've seen some Lt. Cmndr and Lt. Combo specialist seating, but Lt. Cmndr and Ensign seating renders only the Intel specialization viable. Perhaps a better design choice would have been to drop the Temporal entirely from the ship and make that Ensign seat a second Intel seat, but I suspect the preference would have been to boost this Ensign Universal up to a Lt. and perhaps knock down the Engineering seat to a Lt. in the trade.

      The Lt. Tactical station, which is irksome, is at least mitigated by the Lt. Cmndr Intel Universal seat.

      A nice layout, but doesn't compete with the best ships already in service.

      Rating: 3 out of 5. (Would have been a 4 if Temporal wasn't busted)

    Conclusion:

    I like this ship, despite its flaws.

    For captains who are dedicated to DRAIN, the innate boost to the drain skill, radiation damage, resistance debuff, and healing possible through the Consumption Array, unique console, and trait make this a ship that would be worth checking out... if it wasn't an R&D promo ship... inside the most expensive R&D promo pack in STO history (now that it's infinite)! O.O

    Before taking the plunge, remember that nice console is only for Son'a ships... and even then, the healing only works on THIS Son'a ship.

    That Space Trait? You can use it on any ship, but you'll be hard pressed to slot it over better available options like Emergency Weapon Cycle, All Hands on Deck, Invincible, Improved Tachyon Beam (remember, Drain theme), Tachyon Dispersal, Kick 'em While They're Down, Supremacy and so on. Plus there's a way to do the ship pull without the need for that trait, so go get Graga Mal if you need that type of crowd control for a beam FAW build.

    Console layout of 4/5/2 doesn't fit very well into the current Meta.

    AND your Ensign Temporal Seating is still USELESS.

    If you have the resources to burn, sure, go get this Science Dread... but remember this is an INFINITE R&D promo ship, which means you can have your pick of ships... and if you want a Science Dread, grab the Annorax instead. It's got a Lance, Frigate Pets, BETTER Boff Seating, and looks friggin badass too!

    For Drainers who want a tanky theme, and can afford the expense, welcome aboard!
    Post edited by terraptus#0769 on
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 3,196 Arc User
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    Queue whining about it only having 2 tac consoles in 3....2.....1.....
    Why would anyone complain about a science ship having only 2 tactical console slots?

  • terraptus#0769 terraptus Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    avoozuul wrote: »
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    Queue whining about it only having 2 tac consoles in 3....2.....1.....
    Why would anyone complain about a science ship having only 2 tactical console slots?

    It doesn't break the ship, but it limits the attractiveness of your build options.

    If you were going for some kind of Exotic Sci Torp Tank build, or a pure Sci Drain Tank build, 2 Tac console slots is not that big of a deal and you perhaps even appreciate the extra Engineering console slot for your RCS accelerator and Neutronium Alloy. The awkwardness is that the Trait has a built-in pull every time you use your Boff Drain abilities, which works against your efforts to keep mobs in a small, fixed area. So you'd probably drop that trait altogether.

    However, if you're trying to run the Son'a Science Dread as a Sci Beam Tank build (Fire at Will spamming), the loss of the Tactical consoles means less Vulnerability Locators which means less crit chance- and that matters more as Probability Window with it's 30 Seconds of increased Crit Chance is gone as of Season 13.

    Unless you're a Romulan captain with access to Superior Romulan Operative at every Boff seat, you'll be hard pressed to get enough crit chance on your FED or KDF toon to make it competitive with other ships in service- like the Annorax. (For those unsure how much crit chance you need, 20 percent is around the sweet spot for KDF/FED) And even if you are a Romulan, you probably still want more Tactical consoles for more crit chance too if running Tactical Ultimate- or possibly Exploiters if seeking more crit damage.

    The extra tankiness of the ship is nice, but can be replicated in other ships on other builds with something like the Protomatter console, Kobali Regenerative Integrity Field etc- and you won't have to move like a slug for the healing benefit. That's why I fear that, for many, there's just "nothing for them here", beyond drainers looking for every point of DRAIN they can get and willing to accept the trade-offs of the ship.

    I would still suggest Drainers who want to make a tank check out the ship- if they can afford the expense. $_$
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