KDF/RR Community Fundraiser - Would it be allowed?

silverlobes

Reposting this from the other thread, so it might get a little feedback:

How about a Forum Fundraiser? And I don't just mean some Zen-Pledge, but an actual KickStarter/GoFundMe $/€/£ Fundraiser?

I believe it was worked out on one of these threads, how much it would actually cost in terms of man-hours to create someone's 'dream ship', so it shouldn't be impossible to work out a figure for creating X Amount of ships, or hiring the staff to create them.

And before anyone starts dismissing the notion because of the amount that would add up to, let me point out, that Alec Peters managed to raise over A Million Dollars for Axanar. A Million Dollars. Un-authorized, un-licensed, un-supported. A Million Fricking Dollars.

Why would this be different?

Cryptic are licensed to use the Star Trek IP(with approvals, of course) They are allowed to profit from use of the Star Trek IP. They should have none of the legal issues Alec Peters ran into.

So, what's to stop them, as a company, accepting a donation/outside injection of capital into their funds? Funds which could be put specifically towards giving the KDF and RR as many 'leveling' ships and variants, and T5/T66 ships as the UFP.

Specific funds, for a specific project aim. I can't think of any reason why a business can't accept donations.

@ambassadorkael#6946 Would this be allowed by Cryptic?

Forumites: Would you be willing to kick in a few bucks to support an endeavour like this?[/quote]

baddmoonrizin

I think it's less about money, and more about available manpower/man hours.

qjunior

So, we are supposed to pay them to make content which we may then purchase from them. I mean it's pure genius, from their side of things....

dracounguis

Iron Wind Metals, who makes miniatures for Battletech kinda does this. Players have been funding the model sculpts for years now cause the company doesn't seem to make enough money on it's own to afford to do good ones.

silverlobes

baddmoonrizin wrote: »

I think it's less about money, and more about available manpower/man hours.

Exactly. So if we were able to raise X Amount of $$s, that would enable them to hire more artists (even if only temporarily)

silverlobes

qjunior wrote: »

So, we are supposed to pay them to make content which we may then purchase from them. I mean it's pure genius, from their side of things....

Almost... We pay them so they can make the content which others may then purchase. Donors to KickStarters always get perks, don't they And yeah, it's a win-win situation for them: They get the cash to allow them to hire more staff/make more content, we get Perks and content

silverlobes

dracounguis wrote: »

Iron Wind Metals, who makes miniatures for Battletech kinda does this. Players have been funding the model sculpts for years now cause the company doesn't seem to make enough money on it's own to afford to do good ones.

That sounds like a cool idea Kind of like a Collectors Club where the collectors choose the collectable, rather than just the Offer of the Month?

asuran14

I think it could work, though there would need to be some thought put into what to fund actually. like would you go for specific ship types, or a specific ship/s (either specific ship or ship/s from a specific race). Then would need to know what kind of bonuses the funders would get, which I could see with putting in 30+ dollars you get one of the developed ships free of cost, or that you get additional parts an such when you purchase it. Though as a form of supplemental funding to make more cross-faction ships, and race-specific ship releases happen it could work, like that when they are going to release a fed only ship they have a fund raiser happen to supplement the developement of the other smaller faction's ships or races.

Though than I could see the funders wanting a say in how the ship looks, what the boff/console load-out looks like, mechanics of the ship. Maybe also the weapon layout, specific perks even like being able to use dual cannons or not, and maybe a unique weapon to the ship even.

I could see Design ship contests actually funded this way, giving us goals that at points they give us access to the other designs that were used in the contest either as whole designs we could switch between or which were developed into parts for that ship.

silverlobes

asuran14 wrote: »

I think it could work, though there would need to be some thought put into what to fund actually. like would you go for specific ship types, or a specific ship/s (either specific ship or ship/s from a specific race). Then would need to know what kind of bonuses the funders would get, which I could see with putting in 30+ dollars you get one of the developed ships free of cost, or that you get additional parts an such when you purchase it. Though as a form of supplemental funding to make more cross-faction ships, and race-specific ship releases happen it could work, like that when they are going to release a fed only ship they have a fund raiser happen to supplement the developement of the other smaller faction's ships or races.

Though than I could see the funders wanting a say in how the ship looks, what the boff/console load-out looks like, mechanics of the ship. Maybe also the weapon layout, specific perks even like being able to use dual cannons or not, and maybe a unique weapon to the ship even.

I could see Design ship contests actually funded this way, giving us goals that at points they give us access to the other designs that were used in the contest either as whole designs we could switch between or which were developed into parts for that ship.

Well, my prime thought, was to increase the Leveling Up ranges so it's equal to what's available as a Fed. So all ship types and qualities.

Perks could vary. Afterall, access to the Leveling Ships for free, wouldn't be much use to anyone already at L60, so maybe a new T6 ship at a particular level, or a set of Ultra rare weapons of the player's choice, say, a set of phaser beam arrays, or plasma turrets, or whatever flavor the player likes, but 8 pieces for them to make a set on any ship Or a very rare and unique boff and some manuals and the specialiazation qualification Stuff like that ^_^ Donor input, I would personally restrict to the highest donor level, and a one off perk for each ship. That way, there's no arguing about who wants what nacelle configuration between two donors, but whoever coughs up for that perk, they could give an outline of things they'd like to the artist, on the understanding that the artist can only do what is possible within the system, and an outline may only wind up being used as a guide, rather than a 100% Every Wierdly Random Detail as described

I guess I'm just thinking, that if the reason why the work isn't being done because Cryptic say the metrics don't support the expenditure, if we provide the expenditure, that saves them that issue. They would just need to hire some good staff, and assign the work. The non-Fed factions will never improve, until there are more ship options and faction specific mission content, and it's a chicken and egg scenario: Cryptic say there's no money in making the content, players say they're not paying for what content their is, but Would pay, if there was more. I figure the size of the player base and community, even if every player was to only kick in a little bit, it wouldn't be chump change, and would then remove lack of funds/interest as issues for Cryptic to not do it. It would be showing that there's the interest, and profiding the cash to undertake the work (even if only temp hires, rather than permanent staff)

asuran14

silverlobes#2676 wrote: »

asuran14 wrote: »

I think it could work, though there would need to be some thought put into what to fund actually. like would you go for specific ship types, or a specific ship/s (either specific ship or ship/s from a specific race). Then would need to know what kind of bonuses the funders would get, which I could see with putting in 30+ dollars you get one of the developed ships free of cost, or that you get additional parts an such when you purchase it. Though as a form of supplemental funding to make more cross-faction ships, and race-specific ship releases happen it could work, like that when they are going to release a fed only ship they have a fund raiser happen to supplement the developement of the other smaller faction's ships or races.

Though than I could see the funders wanting a say in how the ship looks, what the boff/console load-out looks like, mechanics of the ship. Maybe also the weapon layout, specific perks even like being able to use dual cannons or not, and maybe a unique weapon to the ship even.

I could see Design ship contests actually funded this way, giving us goals that at points they give us access to the other designs that were used in the contest either as whole designs we could switch between or which were developed into parts for that ship.

Well, my prime thought, was to increase the Leveling Up ranges so it's equal to what's available as a Fed. So all ship types and qualities.

Perks could vary. Afterall, access to the Leveling Ships for free, wouldn't be much use to anyone already at L60, so maybe a new T6 ship at a particular level, or a set of Ultra rare weapons of the player's choice, say, a set of phaser beam arrays, or plasma turrets, or whatever flavor the player likes, but 8 pieces for them to make a set on any ship Or a very rare and unique boff and some manuals and the specialiazation qualification Stuff like that ^_^ Donor input, I would personally restrict to the highest donor level, and a one off perk for each ship. That way, there's no arguing about who wants what nacelle configuration between two donors, but whoever coughs up for that perk, they could give an outline of things they'd like to the artist, on the understanding that the artist can only do what is possible within the system, and an outline may only wind up being used as a guide, rather than a 100% Every Wierdly Random Detail as described

I guess I'm just thinking, that if the reason why the work isn't being done because Cryptic say the metrics don't support the expenditure, if we provide the expenditure, that saves them that issue. They would just need to hire some good staff, and assign the work. The non-Fed factions will never improve, until there are more ship options and faction specific mission content, and it's a chicken and egg scenario: Cryptic say there's no money in making the content, players say they're not paying for what content their is, but Would pay, if there was more. I figure the size of the player base and community, even if every player was to only kick in a little bit, it wouldn't be chump change, and would then remove lack of funds/interest as issues for Cryptic to not do it. It would be showing that there's the interest, and profiding the cash to undertake the work (even if only temp hires, rather than permanent staff)

Oh yeah, they would need to to very. An the reason I brought up things like donators getting the ship for free, or even at a reduced cost, is more as was stated if we as players donate money to fund the project an then we pay money to buy the ship we are double billed. I could see goals that if the goal is met the produce it at a lower tier to give people the option to buy one as they level up, or even to give them more parts an consoles in a ways.

But that is the issue with restriction it would yes push many to pay in more money, but also would make it that for those that put in money an just not enough for the perk to have a say the choices of the whales ruined the ship sale wise. I think that once the ship funding goal is met to that goal of choosing/voting a boff/console layout, than it is put to the funders as a voting of all funders. The same for the ship design that till the funding goal is met, they don't actually produce much, but might allow for input on configs the players like, but than afterwards we could vote on the designs.

I am not sure if even a funding campaign would be able to bring in the amount of funds needed for a influx of content and design ship-wise to push interest in the other factions heavy enough to change minds. Doing it slowly over the course of time would have a better chance of success, as one huge influx of new non-fed content like in ships could actually be a negative with the fed only players seeing it as favoritism (warranted or not) for factions/groups the setting is not in their eyes focused on. Smaller influxes of content is much easier for both the company, and the player-base to deal with without a meltdown that could create issues.

silverlobes

Well, this is all literally just off the cuff thinking at the moment, finding out if it would even be permitted So fine details could always be worked out by the organizers I do see what you mean about people potentially being billed twice, so I guess they'd just have to select a perk which best fit their requirements

I think allowing voting would be an issue, because someone would always be unhappy their choice doesn't get voted for, that's why I suggest keeping that as a top level perk. Sure, someone might not like the result someone else suggested, but at least they wouldn't also be resentful of their own idea being discarded in a vote

Like I said, Alec Peters was able to raise over a million dollars. I'm not sure of exact player numbers for the game, but I bet a good chunk of the requirement could be raised

I don't think the influx would be an issue, for a couple of reasons. If we're paying for new KDR/RR stuff, Cryptic can still be putting out Fed stuff out of their own pocket as per normal. Also, it's not about putting the other factons above Fed, but bringing them even. On a personal level, I Would play KDF and RR more, if there was more ships. I know the metrics show KDF as a minority faction and Fed as the majority, I understand that most players come here to play Captain Kirk, but I'd hazard a guess that some of those Fed players would also play KDF if there was more ships All the metrics does, is show the result, it doesn't consider the reasons for the results. It also doesn't suggest solutions. Arguably, if not enough people are interested, then there wouldn't be enough money donated, and it simply wouldn't happen It would be the ideal way of letting the customers vote with their wallets, not by witholding their cash, but by donating it so Cryptic have more resources to use.

I know Fine Details would obviously need to be worked out for things like what perks, and some detailed, honest conversations with Cryptic to find out exactly what is needed, to achieve what goals. But in principle, I can't see why the idea couldn't work, if enough players were interested enough to donate, and more importantly, if Cryptic would be willing to take such a donation, and put it toward the requested use

silverlobes

repetitiveepic wrote: »

What they need to have is a KDF recruitment event, get people making and leveling KDF toons, get people interested in their back catalog of KDF c-store ships.

Demand leads to supply, supply doesn't create demand.

Definitely have a KDF recruitment event, but don't forget, while supply doesn't create demand, there must be enough supply to meet the demand Like I said, I suspect there are a good few players who would go KDF, if the ships were there. A recruitment event without more ships, would face the same issue as now: Looks fun, but no ships, so what's the point? But a dedicated run on KDF/RR ships and then a Recruitment event? That would be awesome Not sure how long that many ships would take to construct, but let's say six months, just to have a figure. So for that six months, hype the upcoming release, and new recruitment event, create that interest for when the new stuffz are ready to leave the digital shipyard

brian334

I'm not sure we should be the ones to decide what perks we get for a kickstarter style campaign. That would have to be something organized by Cryptic and, as such, they would be the ones who decide what is offered and what the goals of the campaign should be.

The original idea was for a pledge drive where a player posts a descriptipn of what he wants to buy and sets aside half the cost in his bank. Thereafter, others who want the item add their pledge to the post and set aside half the cost. When the item gets made the pledgers buy the item.

The idea was to incentivise Cryptic to produce particular items by demonstrating how much their minimum immediate sales would be. An item with hundreds of pledges might pay for itself within hours of being put on the market while items with ten pledges might be a back burner idea.

I'm not really comfortable with a funding campaign via a third party fund raising entity. It might generate a lot of money, but it might cause a lot of other issues, both legal and social. For example, if a funding campaign for a Vulcan Ground Map revamp were held, would Cryptic be legally bound to create the area? Would they be ethically bound to do so if someone posted a fundraiser for a project Cryptic didn't want to do? What if the fund raiser earned a million dollars and the map revamp only looks like two bucks worth of improvement? What about different interpretations of the same idea, such as a player whose request was for The Forge, but they built a monastery instead? And what if, as has already been suggested, the campaign is successful but Cryptic could not fulfill it due to limited man hours and the difficulty of attracting new talent to a seven year old MMO?

I'd support a pledge drive because it wouldn't involve a third party company and there would be no obligations placed on anyone, legal, moral, or social. It would be totally voluntary on both sides of the issue, and failure to follow through could not result in penalties.

meimeitoo

qjunior wrote: »

So, we are supposed to pay them to make content which we may then purchase from them. I mean it's pure genius, from their side of things....

I love silverlobes' idea, but this really, if you think about it: it sets a rather dangerous precedence (with us paying for every bit of major new content, from here on in).

If Cryptic themselves were to initiate, say, a 'Help build a New Romulus' fundraiser campaign, I might be interested, though... hesitantly.

brian334 wrote: »

I'd support a pledge drive because it wouldn't involve a third party company and there would be no obligations placed on anyone, legal, moral, or social. It would be totally voluntary on both sides of the issue, and failure to follow through could not result in penalties.

Which is just another way of saying you'd be willing to throw free money at them. Some sort of obligation would have to exist. Which also underscores why it probably can't be done: hard to make a contract with a forum is.

skullblits

wonder what I currently pay for is going towards??

hey you spent 800££ already can you fund us to build something that then we will give you the privilege to buy again. for a faction that no one likes.

how about no.. invest my money in company stocks. sell them to China. invite investment. Rob a bank.

silverlobes

brian334 wrote: »

I'm not sure we should be the ones to decide what perks we get for a kickstarter style campaign. That would have to be something organized by Cryptic and, as such, they would be the ones who decide what is offered and what the goals of the campaign should be.

The original idea was for a pledge drive where a player posts a descriptipn of what he wants to buy and sets aside half the cost in his bank. Thereafter, others who want the item add their pledge to the post and set aside half the cost. When the item gets made the pledgers buy the item.

The idea was to incentivise Cryptic to produce particular items by demonstrating how much their minimum immediate sales would be. An item with hundreds of pledges might pay for itself within hours of being put on the market while items with ten pledges might be a back burner idea.

I'm not really comfortable with a funding campaign via a third party fund raising entity. It might generate a lot of money, but it might cause a lot of other issues, both legal and social. For example, if a funding campaign for a Vulcan Ground Map revamp were held, would Cryptic be legally bound to create the area? Would they be ethically bound to do so if someone posted a fundraiser for a project Cryptic didn't want to do? What if the fund raiser earned a million dollars and the map revamp only looks like two bucks worth of improvement? What about different interpretations of the same idea, such as a player whose request was for The Forge, but they built a monastery instead? And what if, as has already been suggested, the campaign is successful but Cryptic could not fulfill it due to limited man hours and the difficulty of attracting new talent to a seven year old MMO?

I'd support a pledge drive because it wouldn't involve a third party company and there would be no obligations placed on anyone, legal, moral, or social. It would be totally voluntary on both sides of the issue, and failure to follow through could not result in penalties.

Yeah, I see what you mean, Cryptic would have to be the ones determining the perks :-\

My only concern with the initial pledge idea, was that it might be harder for Cryptic to keep track of moneys earned specifically for the pledge, where, if we were to bring them a load of kickstarter funds, that would be pretty clear where the money had come from and why

Hypothetically, I'd say they would only be obliged to do so, if they accepted the donation, and the terms with which the donation was made. They'd be perfectly entitled to say, no thank you, we don't want the money

silverlobes

meimeitoo wrote: »

qjunior wrote: »

So, we are supposed to pay them to make content which we may then purchase from them. I mean it's pure genius, from their side of things....

I love silverlobes' idea, but this really, if you think about it: it sets a rather dangerous precedence (with us paying for every bit of major new content, from here on in).

If Cryptic themselves were to initiate, say, a 'Help build a New Romulus' fundraiser campaign, I might be interested, though... hesitantly.

brian334 wrote: »

I'd support a pledge drive because it wouldn't involve a third party company and there would be no obligations placed on anyone, legal, moral, or social. It would be totally voluntary on both sides of the issue, and failure to follow through could not result in penalties.

Which is just another way of saying you'd be willing to throw free money at them. Some sort of obligation would have to exist. Which also underscores why it probably can't be done: hard to make a contract with a forum is.

Yeah, that's true, once they know players are willing to pay out for specific content, that could lead to a repeat that scenario :-\ Oh well, it was just an idea

markhawkman

Hm yes, a KDF recruitment event where you have to make a new KDF character, but coincidently the Klingon race option is bugged and missing. Enh, Orions and Gorn are better anyways.

silverlobes

skullblits#4627 wrote: »

wonder what I currently pay for is going towards??

hey you spent 800££ already can you fund us to build something that then we will give you the privilege to buy again. for a faction that no one likes.

how about no.. invest my money in company stocks. sell them to China. invite investment. Rob a bank.

Well, it goes toward whatever they want it to, rather than the idea I outlined

I wouldn't say no one likes the KDF, though. I'd say there isn't enough content to engage and/or retain players who would play, so it's a self-feeding cycle: Not enough content = no new players. No new players = no justification for new content :-/

I'm not sure how robbing a bank would help in this situation, but hey, it's all ideas

silverlobes

markhawkman wrote: »

Hm yes, a KDF recruitment event where you have to make a new KDF character, but coincidently the Klingon race option is bugged and missing. Enh, Orions and Gorn are better anyways.

True true

silverlobes

valoreah wrote: »

baddmoonrizin wrote: »

I think it's less about money, and more about available manpower/man hours.

repetitiveepic wrote: »

What they need to have is a KDF recruitment event, get people making and leveling KDF toons, get people interested in their back catalog of KDF c-store ships.

Demand leads to supply, supply doesn't create demand.

^ These two pretty much sum this up. A KDF recruitment event with decent rewards and unlocks will get people to play. No need for kickstarter campaigns.

This topic ought to be added to the F.C.T. as it has been brought up a number of times over the years and the answer is always no from the Devs.

Oh I'm totally down for a KDF recruitment event, but when you say unlocks, do you mean the ships players can choose levelling up? The options at the moment could do to be expanded a little, and if Cryptic's reason for not allocating the work to dev's schedules due to a lack of resources, then giving them the resources to make the allocations/new hires, would solve the issue.

I didn't know a kickstarter had been suggested before, my bad.

trillbuffet

Only way you'll get something KDF recruitment even started up that would attract much attention is if they started making faction themed events kind of like mirror invasion but centered around a faction but at the same time the other factions being able to participate. Then they can do that special item, choice of marks, and dilithium reward thing which is usually the main thing used to motivate people to join in.

brian334

Here is an example of the pledge proposal:

Decide what item you would be willing to buy and describe it as vaguely or in as much detail as you like. For example, "Klingon clothing options similar to Search For Spock costumes," or "More vambrace and greaves options for klinks."

Find similar items for sale in the C-store and set aside half the required Zen in your bank which you will reserve until the item becomes available.

Create a pledge post in which you put your item description along with your pledge to putchase the item when it is available.

If and when the item is made, purchase it. This step is important because if pledgers reneg the developers can justifiably ignore future pledges. Even if you wanted a T7 Whale Probe with universal BOff seating but got a whale probe with assigned BOff stations you have to buy it because you promised to buy the product if they made it.

I'm sure those more familiar with pledge drives could improve on the idea, but essentially it is a way for the developers to see exactly how much interest exists for a particular item (in dollars,) ahead of investing time in it. It does not obligate anyone to create anything they don't want to make, but it may incentivise creation of items for which the developers may feel there is insufficient demand. It doesn't take anything from the player until there is a product to purchase, and ultimately if the developers fall short of expectations the player does not have to pay for it.

A pledge drive is voluntary all around. It costs players nothing until the product is available, and gives the developers an idea of what their minimum sales would be for the proposed item.

silverlobes

patrickngo wrote: »

silverlobes#2676 wrote: »

valoreah wrote: »

baddmoonrizin wrote: »

I think it's less about money, and more about available manpower/man hours.

repetitiveepic wrote: »

What they need to have is a KDF recruitment event, get people making and leveling KDF toons, get people interested in their back catalog of KDF c-store ships.

Demand leads to supply, supply doesn't create demand.

^ These two pretty much sum this up. A KDF recruitment event with decent rewards and unlocks will get people to play. No need for kickstarter campaigns.

This topic ought to be added to the F.C.T. as it has been brought up a number of times over the years and the answer is always no from the Devs.

Oh I'm totally down for a KDF recruitment event, but when you say unlocks, do you mean the ships players can choose levelling up? The options at the moment could do to be expanded a little, and if Cryptic's reason for not allocating the work to dev's schedules due to a lack of resources, then giving them the resources to make the allocations/new hires, would solve the issue.

I didn't know a kickstarter had been suggested before, my bad.

periodically, someone in the kdf community suggests a Kickstarter as a means to get budget and revenue to pay for expansions, so far, Cryptic's never bitten on the idea *(proving that NO, they aren't just in it for the monies, but instead they actually have some professional standards, ethics, and pride)

I'd be down to drop monies in to see this happen, but there's a whole administrative nightmare on the Cryptic side of the house when you start talking about those kind of efforts, and there's lawsuit risks and such as well that make it less appealing than us outsiders might think at first blush.

I think they could really use a few hours talking to Steve Jackson about how to run that kind of campaign, what the pitfalls are, etc. since he's the sort of 'pioneer' of it with the OGRE re-release kickstarter campaign.

(IOW-talk to people who've done it SUCCESSFULLY).

to be honest, I think the biggest hurdle to a Kickstarter or similar campaign, isn't company management or staffer bias, but is instead talking to the hawt&Juicy Lawyers. not just Cryptic's lawyers, or PWE's lawyers, but also CBS' lawyers..

This is the thing, I don't understand why it would be a legal issue. Alec Peters nearly got sued into the poorhouse because he was raising monies and making profit, on an IP which wasn't his. I can't defend the guy on that, and don't intend to. He got what he had coming to him, and in the process, well and truly TRIBBLE things up for everyone else who was playing by the rules. But Cryptic, while they may not own the Trek IP, they are licensed users of it, and they are allowed to make profit through their work.

I'm a stocks and shares kind of guy, profit and loss, not rules and regulations, so perhaps I'm missing something, but given how you worked out the costs for new ship the other day, then turned round and said Cryptic didn't have the resources to do it (which I agree, they clearly don't) I just don't see how Cryptic being given (let's say a million bucks) from an outside source, and that source saying 'Please can we have some more KDF/RR stuffz?', I can't see why that would be an issue from a legal perspective.

nightken

silverlobes#2676 wrote: »

patrickngo wrote: »

silverlobes#2676 wrote: »

valoreah wrote: »

baddmoonrizin wrote: »

I think it's less about money, and more about available manpower/man hours.

repetitiveepic wrote: »

What they need to have is a KDF recruitment event, get people making and leveling KDF toons, get people interested in their back catalog of KDF c-store ships.

Demand leads to supply, supply doesn't create demand.

^ These two pretty much sum this up. A KDF recruitment event with decent rewards and unlocks will get people to play. No need for kickstarter campaigns.

This topic ought to be added to the F.C.T. as it has been brought up a number of times over the years and the answer is always no from the Devs.

Oh I'm totally down for a KDF recruitment event, but when you say unlocks, do you mean the ships players can choose levelling up? The options at the moment could do to be expanded a little, and if Cryptic's reason for not allocating the work to dev's schedules due to a lack of resources, then giving them the resources to make the allocations/new hires, would solve the issue.

I didn't know a kickstarter had been suggested before, my bad.

periodically, someone in the kdf community suggests a Kickstarter as a means to get budget and revenue to pay for expansions, so far, Cryptic's never bitten on the idea *(proving that NO, they aren't just in it for the monies, but instead they actually have some professional standards, ethics, and pride)

I'd be down to drop monies in to see this happen, but there's a whole administrative nightmare on the Cryptic side of the house when you start talking about those kind of efforts, and there's lawsuit risks and such as well that make it less appealing than us outsiders might think at first blush.

I think they could really use a few hours talking to Steve Jackson about how to run that kind of campaign, what the pitfalls are, etc. since he's the sort of 'pioneer' of it with the OGRE re-release kickstarter campaign.

(IOW-talk to people who've done it SUCCESSFULLY).

to be honest, I think the biggest hurdle to a Kickstarter or similar campaign, isn't company management or staffer bias, but is instead talking to the hawt&Juicy Lawyers. not just Cryptic's lawyers, or PWE's lawyers, but also CBS' lawyers..

This is the thing, I don't understand why it would be a legal issue. Alec Peters nearly got sued into the poorhouse because he was raising monies and making profit, on an IP which wasn't his. I can't defend the guy on that, and don't intend to. He got what he had coming to him, and in the process, well and truly **** things up for everyone else who was playing by the rules. But Cryptic, while they may not own the Trek IP, they are licensed users of it, and they are allowed to make profit through their work.

I'm a stocks and shares kind of guy, profit and loss, not rules and regulations, so perhaps I'm missing something, but given how you worked out the costs for new ship the other day, then turned round and said Cryptic didn't have the resources to do it (which I agree, they clearly don't) I just don't see how Cryptic being given (let's say a million bucks) from an outside source, and that source saying 'Please can we have some more KDF/RR stuffz?', I can't see why that would be an issue from a legal perspective.

people have sued game companies for not give them what was promised... even though it was, it just wasn't what they wanted, and have won. people will sue over anything cause people suck.

silverlobes

nightken wrote: »

silverlobes#2676 wrote: »

patrickngo wrote: »

silverlobes#2676 wrote: »

valoreah wrote: »

baddmoonrizin wrote: »

I think it's less about money, and more about available manpower/man hours.

repetitiveepic wrote: »

What they need to have is a KDF recruitment event, get people making and leveling KDF toons, get people interested in their back catalog of KDF c-store ships.

Demand leads to supply, supply doesn't create demand.

^ These two pretty much sum this up. A KDF recruitment event with decent rewards and unlocks will get people to play. No need for kickstarter campaigns.

This topic ought to be added to the F.C.T. as it has been brought up a number of times over the years and the answer is always no from the Devs.

Oh I'm totally down for a KDF recruitment event, but when you say unlocks, do you mean the ships players can choose levelling up? The options at the moment could do to be expanded a little, and if Cryptic's reason for not allocating the work to dev's schedules due to a lack of resources, then giving them the resources to make the allocations/new hires, would solve the issue.

I didn't know a kickstarter had been suggested before, my bad.

periodically, someone in the kdf community suggests a Kickstarter as a means to get budget and revenue to pay for expansions, so far, Cryptic's never bitten on the idea *(proving that NO, they aren't just in it for the monies, but instead they actually have some professional standards, ethics, and pride)

I'd be down to drop monies in to see this happen, but there's a whole administrative nightmare on the Cryptic side of the house when you start talking about those kind of efforts, and there's lawsuit risks and such as well that make it less appealing than us outsiders might think at first blush.

I think they could really use a few hours talking to Steve Jackson about how to run that kind of campaign, what the pitfalls are, etc. since he's the sort of 'pioneer' of it with the OGRE re-release kickstarter campaign.

(IOW-talk to people who've done it SUCCESSFULLY).

to be honest, I think the biggest hurdle to a Kickstarter or similar campaign, isn't company management or staffer bias, but is instead talking to the hawt&Juicy Lawyers. not just Cryptic's lawyers, or PWE's lawyers, but also CBS' lawyers..

This is the thing, I don't understand why it would be a legal issue. Alec Peters nearly got sued into the poorhouse because he was raising monies and making profit, on an IP which wasn't his. I can't defend the guy on that, and don't intend to. He got what he had coming to him, and in the process, well and truly **** things up for everyone else who was playing by the rules. But Cryptic, while they may not own the Trek IP, they are licensed users of it, and they are allowed to make profit through their work.

I'm a stocks and shares kind of guy, profit and loss, not rules and regulations, so perhaps I'm missing something, but given how you worked out the costs for new ship the other day, then turned round and said Cryptic didn't have the resources to do it (which I agree, they clearly don't) I just don't see how Cryptic being given (let's say a million bucks) from an outside source, and that source saying 'Please can we have some more KDF/RR stuffz?', I can't see why that would be an issue from a legal perspective.

people have sued game companies for not give them what was promised... even though it was, it just wasn't what they wanted, and have won. people will sue over anything cause people suck.

Well, that's certainly true

brian334

The difference between a kickstarter type campaign and a pledge drive:

One is a demand for content wrapped in contractual obligation, and the other is a promise to purchase with no strings attached.

The guys at Cryptic know what their license allows them to do and we don't. A kickstarter could obligate Cryptic to do something their license does not allow. Also, we as non-Cryptic affiliated customers, cannot set up such a campaign on their behalf: this would have to be something Cryptic does, and as such, it would be Cryptic funding their own ideas rather than ours.

While a pledge drive wholly contained within STO's existing communications platforms might not stand a snowball's chance of raising a million bucks, it would come with no compulsion to work on ideas that Cryptic rejects, and it could not ever result in players legitimately claiming they were cheated because the item delivered was not the item they wanted. In fact, the player would pay nothing until the item was delivered and approved.

A pledge drive is essentially a list of customers who want the product ahead of its creation, and Cryptic could use such a venue to gauge e potential benefit of creating something they believe to be of marginal profitability. Buying half the Zen needed ahead of time is a way to show Cryptic that you are serious and not just jumping onboard the latest 'can I haz' thread.