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Forums > Home› Star Trek Online General Discussion

K-13 23c manuals need provisions?

ioneonioneon Member Posts: 207 Arc User
in Star Trek Online General Discussion
So I'm a huge TOS fan, when they released Agents of Yesterday I knew that I would make my new main my TOS toon, which I did.

Eventually K-13 came out, and I knew I wanted to replace my bridge crew with purple TOS Boffs and train them mostly with 23c abilities. Imagine how excited I was when I gathered up enough dilithium and fleet credits to get 6 purple TOS Doffs. Then I start buying the training manuals, I buy 2 of them... and it tells me "Store requires re-provisioning". Sure enough, I look in my K-13 holding and all of the engineering provisions are gone.

This HAS to be a bug, there is no way you need 1 provision per 23c training manual. That is INSANELY overpriced. That raises the dilithium cost of one ensign level 23c manual from 910 to 19,910.

sorry but 20k dilithium for 1 ensign level training manual is out of control. Does anyone know if this is a bug? or working as intended?

Comments

  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,572 Arc User
    The whole idea of these Manual's cost is ridiculous to begin with and I've said so on Tribble when they first concocted them. All other Manuals cost EC only, NOT Dilithium. The Provision cost was probably because they just fell into standard costing routines for Fleet items with nobody actually thinking about what the actual costs would be logically.

    Really the Manuals are not printed on Gold Plated Latium parchment and should not cost as if they were.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited February 2017
    Working as intended, not that I agree with it.

    Seems pretty excessive for abilities that are just copies of the regular ones. Frankly, it feels like a dil sink made specifically for those who have OCD and don't like seeing boff abilities grayed out.
    Post edited by lucho80 on
  • ioneonioneon Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    Is there any official word on whether or not this is working as intended? And do they realize that you could just create a new AoY character, go to 23c ESD and buy most of the ensign level abilities which are fully tradable for 910 dilithium? Why would we spend 20k for what we can get for 1k? I realize that this solves nothing for all the mk II and MK III abilities, but still. It feels more like an oversight / bug than anything.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,572 Arc User
    The costs at ESD in the 23rd Century are normal EC costs. No Dilithium.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • ioneonioneon Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    The costs at ESD in the 23rd Century are normal EC costs. No Dilithium.

    Well that's even sillier. :(
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,664 Arc User
    ioneon wrote: »
    Is there any official word on whether or not this is working as intended? And do they realize that you could just create a new AoY character, go to 23c ESD and buy most of the ensign level abilities which are fully tradable for 910 dilithium? Why would we spend 20k for what we can get for 1k? I realize that this solves nothing for all the mk II and MK III abilities, but still. It feels more like an oversight / bug than anything.

    They changed that? At launch the 23rd C ESD versions of the training manuals were character bind on pickup. Only the gear was unbound.

  • ioneonioneon Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, fortunately I bought like 10 of each before I hit the 25th century.
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  • nephitisnephitis Member Posts: 456 Arc User
    That bug has been fixed!

    I believe all "items" cost provisions, whereas traits and the likes do not.
  • ioneonioneon Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    nephitis wrote: »
    That bug has been fixed!

    I believe all "items" cost provisions, whereas traits and the likes do not.

    That's awesome. So explain why you can buy the same "item" for 900 ec, that then later gets sold to us for 19910 dilithium and 2500 fleet credits?
  • ioneonioneon Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    not sure why you'd expect this to be different./quote]

    Because of the massive price dependency plain and simple. Imagine you drive down I-95 from MA to FL. You hit GA and gas is 80 dollars a gallon. That's what this is.
  • ioneonioneon Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    "not sure why you'd expect this to be different."

    Because of the massive price discrepancy plain and simple. Imagine you drive down I-95 from MA to FL. You hit GA and gas is 80 dollars a gallon. That's what this is.

  • UnknownUnknown
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  • ioneonioneon Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    azrael605 wrote: »
    The only 23rd century manuals available from 23rd ESD are ensign rank, the ones at K- 13 are all higher rank, so it is not the same items. As mentioned the only things you can buy from Fleet holdings that do not require provisions are stuff like Active Doff Roster slots, Doff mission slots, some Doffs, Atmospheric Flight Training, Commodities from the Embassy, and a few other things.


    Wrong, all of the ones offered at K-13 INCLUDE the ensign ranked ones, which cost 20k Dilithium + fleet credits.
  • ioneonioneon Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    I would like an official response on this please.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    ioneon wrote: »
    azrael605 wrote: »
    The only 23rd century manuals available from 23rd ESD are ensign rank, the ones at K- 13 are all higher rank, so it is not the same items. As mentioned the only things you can buy from Fleet holdings that do not require provisions are stuff like Active Doff Roster slots, Doff mission slots, some Doffs, Atmospheric Flight Training, Commodities from the Embassy, and a few other things.


    Wrong, all of the ones offered at K-13 INCLUDE the ensign ranked ones, which cost 20k Dilithium + fleet credits.
    Then buy the Ensign one at 23rd century ESD.

    If you can't - well, I guess that's one of the privileges of being a TOS era Captain.

    It's like one of those things - Romulan characters can get Romulan Operative BOFFs easily, for the rest it's a costly speciality bridge officer.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • nephitisnephitis Member Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    I don't really know what the problem is... or rather what is difficult to understand.

    I mean, as a non-TOS character you cannot get them at all from the past ESD that you keep referring back to as a point of argument. Yes, you can buy 23rd century abilities from there, but albeit, they are all Ensign or Tier 1. And once you leave that ESD you cannot reacquire those manuals again.

    The probable reason why they manuals available to every faction are more expensive is... well because of that. They are available to all factions regardless of their affiliation and era. It may also be why they are tied to the K-13 fleet. The manuals are probably meant to be special and exclusive.
  • drakethewhitedrakethewhite Member Posts: 1,240 Arc User
    davefenestrator wrote: »
    ioneon wrote: »
    Is there any official word on whether or not this is working as intended? And do they realize that you could just create a new AoY character, go to 23c ESD and buy most of the ensign level abilities which are fully tradable for 910 dilithium? Why would we spend 20k for what we can get for 1k? I realize that this solves nothing for all the mk II and MK III abilities, but still. It feels more like an oversight / bug than anything.

    They changed that? At launch the 23rd C ESD versions of the training manuals were character bind on pickup. Only the gear was unbound.

    They are still character bound on pickup, just checked it.

  • nimbullnimbull Member Posts: 1,564 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    Not worth getting really unless you are one of those people who has to much provisions, FCs, and dilithium and nothing to spend em on. Not only do you have to put resources in buying them but also to run the provisioning missions in the fleet to stock one resource for em. A major grind within a grind for something that is usually just EC at the First City/ESD/New Romulus.
    Green people don't have to be.... little.
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  • ioneonioneon Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    Another problem the OP has is using those stupid dilithium only provisioning projects. I never use those in my fleet, I mean come on 200K dill for 10 provisions, no thanks. I use the alternate projects that may only give 5 provisions each but require no dill and give holding xp as well.

    Thanks, I'll look into that. :)
  • ioneonioneon Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    Well after looking into the alternate fleet mission the price isn't as bad. And after hearing all of your explanations involving the costs of the abilities, other factions, etc. I guess I feel a little better about the cost of the training manuals. I'll just suck it up and start grinding. Thanks everyone.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,572 Arc User
    Doffs? Commodities? Slavish dedication to a paradigm when it makes no sense, makes no sense. Johannes Gutenberg's work was all for naught it would seem. A bit of a comparison in costs for Manuals seems to be in order.

    K-13 Training Manual Costs
    Ensign - 2,500 Fleet Credits/850 Dilitium
    Lieutenant - 5,000 Fleet Credits/2,125 Dilitium
    Lt. Commander - 7,500 Fleet Credits/4,250 Dilitium
    Commander - None

    Regular Training Manual Costs
    Ensign - 250 EC
    Lieutenant - 2,000 EC
    Lt. Commander - 5,000 EC
    Commander - 10,000 EC


    Captain Officer Training Manual Costs
    Lt. Commander/Commander - 1 PADD

    I will convert all costs to EC based upon the following with EC Costs coming from the Exchange for some items:
    1 Fleet Credit = 100 EC
    300 Dilitium = 1 Zen
    112 Zen = 1 Key
    1 Key = 5,500,000 EC
    1 Thoron Particle = 1,000 EC
    1 Tritanium = 7,500 EC
    1 PADD = 2,500 EC/200 Dilitium/4 Tritanium/1 Thoron Particle

    So

    Captain Lt. Commander/Commander Training Manual = 2,500 + 32,738 + 30,000 + 1,000 = 66,238 EC
    K-13 Ensign Training Manual = 250,000 + 137,500 = 387,500 EC
    K-13 Lieutenant Training Manual = 500,000 + 348,660 = 848,660 EC
    K-13 Lt. Commander Training Manual - 750,000 + 697,321 = 1,447,321 EC

    These costs DO NOT factor in any K-13 Provisioning Projects.

    You decide if Fleets, as designed by Cryptic, are overcharging for items that Fleet Members have spent quite some effort into building up.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • drakethewhitedrakethewhite Member Posts: 1,240 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »

    You decide if Fleets, as designed by Cryptic, are overcharging for items that Fleet Members have spent quite some effort into building up.

    Clearly they are, but I don't expect it to change.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    You're free to use the regular training manuals if you can't afford the premium ones. B)
  • ioneonioneon Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    Oh hey, snark on the internet. That's refreshing for a change.
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