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The structure of the Federation.

lordrezeonlordrezeon Member Posts: 399 Arc User
Despite being around for fifty years, having five television shows, and thirteen movies we know very little solid information on how the Federation is structured. Much of what we know is either implied, assumed, and just flat out guess work.

We are led to believe it is a democratic republic comprised of semi-independent planets, however we have no knowledge of how this system works. Is representation based on populations, number of planets, or simply one vote per species? Each of these would pose a number of problems for an organization promoting equality and fairness.
-A system based on population would favor species with high reproductive rates and lifespans, while those whose evolution would find themselves at a disadvantage.
-Basing the system on the number of colonies would only serve to promote a spirit of aggressive expansionism where the older spacefaring civilizations who had a head start on colonization efforts would have an innate advantage. This hardly seems to be in keeping with Federation ideals.
-Having one vote per species seems like the best solution at first, but it could also result in the more prosperous civilizations to feel disgruntled at having very little say over what is happening.

If we take a look at how things are portrayed in the shows and movies it gets even harder to guess how things are structured. Since the writers often make things up as they go it leads to the overall story contradicting itself at different points.

At times it is hinted that each home world and colony gets a say, but this often comes into conflict with episode plotlines as Starfleet Captains are shown to quite casually dictate major society altering mandates on colony worlds. It also seems quite often that the Federation and Starfleet are largely unaware of the location or current events of many of their colonies.


I've heard their have been books that tried to expand and flesh out the inner workings of the Federation, but I haven't read them myself. Do any of you guys know more about how the Federation is set up?

Comments

  • garaks31garaks31 Member Posts: 2,845 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    nato rules with some differences. founding planets have slightly more power. one vote per species. but the important difference to us post-industrial Barbarians is, there is no secret struggle against each others resources. so they can work Peacefully...
    Post edited by garaks31 on
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    The novel Articles of the Federation describes a federal republic, comparable to the United States except the legislature (the Federation Council) is unicameral. Each planet gets one councillor, selected in a manner of that planet's choosing: e.g. the First Minister of Bajor appoints theirs and the Chamber of Ministers confirms it, the Andorian Parliament elects theirs (compare to how US senators were appointed by state legislatures before the 17th Amendment), and Betazed uses a popular election.

    The President of the Federation presides over the Council. They're elected by popular vote but they have to get the Council's permission to run (essentially they submit an anonymized resume which the Council then reviews and gives a yes or no verdict). The President Pro Tempore of the Council is next in the line of succession but can only hold the office until a special election is called (that's how Nanietta Bacco got in: the previous president resigned). Elections may also be delayed due to national crises, for example the 2381 Borg invasion.
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    It seems to work like the U.N. in TOS and the US in TNG.

    Both of which are stupid ways to try and organise something the size of the Federation with such a mix of races but the writer's were fundamentally held back by their ape brains.
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  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    Keep in mind that it's a utopia. So it's basically like the UN but with all members actually wanting to cooperate and have peace with each other as opposed to real life earth where every UN member tries to get most out of the deal.​​
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    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
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  • lazarxlazarx Member Posts: 115 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    Keep in mind that it's a utopia. So it's basically like the UN but with all members actually wanting to cooperate and have peace with each other as opposed to real life earth where every UN member tries to get most out of the deal.​​

    As "Journey to Babel" amply demonstrates, the Federation is far from harmonius. In Gene Roddenberry's eyes, the only species that's truly enlightened is the Human Race. Every other alien race, including Federation members has a fatal blind spot of one form or another, and it's up to the enlightened Perfect Humans to hang it all together.
    lazarx_2855.jpg
  • lordrezeonlordrezeon Member Posts: 399 Arc User
    Even humanities perfect society is a dubious claim, as we see with Tasha Yar's backstory and that was during the years when Gene had peak control of the series.

    I guess the real crux of what I'm trying to figure out is how much of a voice the colony worlds have within the Federation. On good days they seem to be treated like equals, but on the bad days they are very much treated like second class citizens. The whole Maquis storyline really served to bring this into question when the Federation Council up and decided to just give away several colony worlds.
  • lazarxlazarx Member Posts: 115 Arc User
    lordrezeon wrote: »
    Even humanities perfect society is a dubious claim, as we see with Tasha Yar's backstory and that was during the years when Gene had peak control of the series.

    I guess the real crux of what I'm trying to figure out is how much of a voice the colony worlds have within the Federation. On good days they seem to be treated like equals, but on the bad days they are very much treated like second class citizens. The whole Maquis storyline really served to bring this into question when the Federation Council up and decided to just give away several colony worlds.

    Keep in mind that this was a matter of disputed territory between the Federation and the Cardassian Empire. The Cardassians had to give up worlds as well once the boundary was settled upon. But of course that side of the equation is not the story that's going to be shown.

    One thing is totally unknown is the difference of when a single planet joins the Federation and when an society that's already interstellar. Is Mars a separate member, or lumped in with Earth?

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  • theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,985 Arc User
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    • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User

      Maybe better use http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Mars if you seek for a canonical answer. Memory beta is for licensed works, not canon.
      lazarx wrote: »
      As "Journey to Babel" amply demonstrates, the Federation is far from harmonius. In Gene Roddenberry's eyes, the only species that's truly enlightened is the Human Race. Every other alien race, including Federation members has a fatal blind spot of one form or another, and it's up to the enlightened Perfect Humans to hang it all together.

      True and good point, however Tellarites, Andorians and all other members agreed to disband their militaries in favour of Starfleet, effectively trusting their safety to the Federation. This would never happen today.​​
      lFC4bt2.gif
      ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
      "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
      "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
      "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
    • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
      lordrezeon wrote: »
      Even humanities perfect society is a dubious claim, as we see with Tasha Yar's backstory and that was during the years when Gene had peak control of the series.

      I guess the real crux of what I'm trying to figure out is how much of a voice the colony worlds have within the Federation. On good days they seem to be treated like equals, but on the bad days they are very much treated like second class citizens. The whole Maquis storyline really served to bring this into question when the Federation Council up and decided to just give away several colony worlds.

      There is Harry Mudd and Hagath, who is the arms dealer from Business as Usual, that don't seem to belong to the Federation. Then there is Vash which seems to have similar ethics as Mudd and Hagath with the whole profits being more important than following the Federation human ideal.
    • wombat140wombat140 Member Posts: 971 Arc User
      Probably there are good answers to this, I'm just asking: where does it say that Andoria, Tellar and the rest disbanded their militaries in favour of Earth's Starfleet, as opposed to 1) each world has its own space fleet and Starfleet is Earth's or 2) Starfleet is interplanetary and we just see Earth's division of it? (i.e. these fleets have to operate out of somewhere, a member of another species COULD join an Earth-based ship if they wanted to but not many people would have any reason to bother.)

      Also, where does it say that Harry Mudd (and the other bloke, who I'm not familiar with) don't belong to the Federation? Mudd evidently is a Federation citizen - he can be arrested as one, and frequently is :-D They don't FIT in the Federation, but if that's all, that doesn't really have much bearing on the question of who's a citizen of what.


      As for the colony worlds, I'd guess that there's some kind of approval process where when a colony gets big enough or has been established long enough or self-sustaining long enough or all three, it has to apply for its own seat on the Council? That's not based on anything, I'm just thinking about it. It would account for the situation of small colonies being ordered about by Earth or the Council without any representation and being cheesed off about it. They would be places that hadn't got their own seat yet (and who possibly thought they should have had one years ago).
    • corelogikcorelogik Member Posts: 1,039 Arc User
      edited March 2017
      wombat140 wrote: »
      Probably there are good answers to this, I'm just asking: where does it say that Andoria, Tellar and the rest disbanded their militaries in favour of Earth's Starfleet, as opposed to 1) each world has its own space fleet and Starfleet is Earth's or 2) Starfleet is interplanetary and we just see Earth's division of it? (i.e. these fleets have to operate out of somewhere, a member of another species COULD join an Earth-based ship if they wanted to but not many people would have any reason to bother.)

      Also, where does it say that Harry Mudd (and the other bloke, who I'm not familiar with) don't belong to the Federation? Mudd evidently is a Federation citizen - he can be arrested as one, and frequently is :-D They don't FIT in the Federation, but if that's all, that doesn't really have much bearing on the question of who's a citizen of what.


      As for the colony worlds, I'd guess that there's some kind of approval process where when a colony gets big enough or has been established long enough or self-sustaining long enough or all three, it has to apply for its own seat on the Council? That's not based on anything, I'm just thinking about it. It would account for the situation of small colonies being ordered about by Earth or the Council without any representation and being cheesed off about it. They would be places that hadn't got their own seat yet (and who possibly thought they should have had one years ago).

      The closest I can think of off hand is the episode of Star Trek Deep Space Nine when Admiral Whatley is talking to Captain Sisko about the Bajoran memberships process, he states; "The Bajoran Militia will have to be absorbed into Starfleet, Bajor will need to choose representatives,..." Episode 510 - Rapture. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture_(Star_Trek:_Deep_Space_Nine)

      This leads me to believe that when a planet joins the Federation, the bulk of their "Military" gets absorbed into Starfleet, leaving only small planetary/system defense forces under direct local control. Similar to the U.S. Military vs the U.S. National Guard.

      The actually Army, Navy etc are under the direct control of the President and Dept of Defense, while the National Guard is, in theory, under the control of the various States Governors.
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    • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
      corelogik wrote: »
      wombat140 wrote: »
      Probably there are good answers to this, I'm just asking: where does it say that Andoria, Tellar and the rest disbanded their militaries in favour of Earth's Starfleet, as opposed to 1) each world has its own space fleet and Starfleet is Earth's or 2) Starfleet is interplanetary and we just see Earth's division of it? (i.e. these fleets have to operate out of somewhere, a member of another species COULD join an Earth-based ship if they wanted to but not many people would have any reason to bother.)

      Also, where does it say that Harry Mudd (and the other bloke, who I'm not familiar with) don't belong to the Federation? Mudd evidently is a Federation citizen - he can be arrested as one, and frequently is :-D They don't FIT in the Federation, but if that's all, that doesn't really have much bearing on the question of who's a citizen of what.


      As for the colony worlds, I'd guess that there's some kind of approval process where when a colony gets big enough or has been established long enough or self-sustaining long enough or all three, it has to apply for its own seat on the Council? That's not based on anything, I'm just thinking about it. It would account for the situation of small colonies being ordered about by Earth or the Council without any representation and being cheesed off about it. They would be places that hadn't got their own seat yet (and who possibly thought they should have had one years ago).

      The closest I can think of off hand is the episode of Star Trek Deep Space Nine when Admiral Whatley is talking to Captain Sisko about the Bajoran memberships process, he states; "The Bajoran Militia will have to be absorbed into Starfleet, Bajor will need to choose representatives,..." Episode 510 - Rapture. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture_(Star_Trek:_Deep_Space_Nine)

      This leads me to believe that when a planet joins the Federation, the bulk of their "Military" gets absorbed into Starfleet, leaving only small planetary/system defense forces under direct local control. Similar to the U.S. Military vs the U.S. National Guard.

      The actually Army, Navy etc are under the direct control of the President and Dept of Defense, while the National Guard is, in theory, under the control of the various States Governors.

      Well the Militia will only have it's defence remit and personnel folded into Starfleet. They'll cease to function as a military.

      No local or planetary militias exist in the Federation, the closest you get are defence drones like the ones around Mars.
      22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
      Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
      JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

      #TASforSTO


      '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
      'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
      'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
      '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
      'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
      '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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    • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
      edited March 2017
      corelogik wrote: »
      wombat140 wrote: »
      Probably there are good answers to this, I'm just asking: where does it say that Andoria, Tellar and the rest disbanded their militaries in favour of Earth's Starfleet, as opposed to 1) each world has its own space fleet and Starfleet is Earth's or 2) Starfleet is interplanetary and we just see Earth's division of it? (i.e. these fleets have to operate out of somewhere, a member of another species COULD join an Earth-based ship if they wanted to but not many people would have any reason to bother.)

      Also, where does it say that Harry Mudd (and the other bloke, who I'm not familiar with) don't belong to the Federation? Mudd evidently is a Federation citizen - he can be arrested as one, and frequently is :-D They don't FIT in the Federation, but if that's all, that doesn't really have much bearing on the question of who's a citizen of what.


      As for the colony worlds, I'd guess that there's some kind of approval process where when a colony gets big enough or has been established long enough or self-sustaining long enough or all three, it has to apply for its own seat on the Council? That's not based on anything, I'm just thinking about it. It would account for the situation of small colonies being ordered about by Earth or the Council without any representation and being cheesed off about it. They would be places that hadn't got their own seat yet (and who possibly thought they should have had one years ago).

      The closest I can think of off hand is the episode of Star Trek Deep Space Nine when Admiral Whatley is talking to Captain Sisko about the Bajoran memberships process, he states; "The Bajoran Militia will have to be absorbed into Starfleet, Bajor will need to choose representatives,..." Episode 510 - Rapture. [link cut]

      This leads me to believe that when a planet joins the Federation, the bulk of their "Military" gets absorbed into Starfleet, leaving only small planetary/system defense forces under direct local control. Similar to the U.S. Military vs the U.S. National Guard.

      The actually Army, Navy etc are under the direct control of the President and Dept of Defense, while the National Guard is, in theory, under the control of the various States Governors.

      Well, the trick with the National Guard is it evolved from the old state militias, which both served defense and law enforcement roles and were thought of as a deterrent to the national government (remember that in 1775 the Brits tried to forcibly disarm the Massachusetts militia forces, which was what finally set off the powder keg). Without getting into the whole gun rights mess, the Second Amendment stems partially from the latter school of thought, giving the states the constitutional ability to defend themselves against the feds. This is one of the weird things about the United States it's sometimes hard even for modern Americans to wrap their brains around, but even after the Constitution was written we thought of ourselves as less a single country than as a confederation of semi-autonomous states (note the word "state", as in "nation-state", instead of "province"). We've become a lot more centralized over time: it wasn't until after the Civil War that we started using singular instead of plural to refer to the United States ("the United States are" versus "the United States is").

      You could probably map this onto Star Trek, actually: the Federation seemed quite decentralized in TOS, when there was much more left unexplored, but was considerably more centralized in TNG, DS9, VOY, and STO. Also, some species are probably going to want to maintain their own space warfare capabilities: the Andorians are culturally militarized, and the Bajorans have a strong nationalist streak and are frequently suspicious of the Federation being the second coming of the Occupation (the whole Second Amendment thing).
      "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
      — Sabaton, "Great War"
      VZ9ASdg.png

      Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
    • lazarxlazarx Member Posts: 115 Arc User
      edited March 2017
      wombat140 wrote: »
      Probably there are good answers to this, I'm just asking: where does it say that Andoria, Tellar and the rest disbanded their militaries in favour of Earth's Starfleet, as opposed to 1) each world has its own space fleet and Starfleet is Earth's or 2) Starfleet is interplanetary and we just see Earth's division of it? (i.e. these fleets have to operate out of somewhere, a member of another species COULD join an Earth-based ship if they wanted to but not many people would have any reason to bother.)

      Also, where does it say that Harry Mudd (and the other bloke, who I'm not familiar with) don't belong to the Federation? Mudd evidently is a Federation citizen - he can be arrested as one, and frequently is :-D They don't FIT in the Federation, but if that's all, that doesn't really have much bearing on the question of who's a citizen of what.


      As for the colony worlds, I'd guess that there's some kind of approval process where when a colony gets big enough or has been established long enough or self-sustaining long enough or all three, it has to apply for its own seat on the Council? That's not based on anything, I'm just thinking about it. It would account for the situation of small colonies being ordered about by Earth or the Council without any representation and being cheesed off about it. They would be places that hadn't got their own seat yet (and who possibly thought they should have had one years ago).

      There's also the fact that you don't see any Andorian or Tellarite ships in StarFleet. You do see the odd Vulcan D"keyr l now and then, and they're clearly not part of Starfleet. FASA used to make references to the "Blue Fleet" but hinted that they were standard Starfleet ships with Andorian crews. Which makes sense since phasers are supposed to be Andoria's contribution to Federation tech.

      lazarx_2855.jpg
    • lordrezeonlordrezeon Member Posts: 399 Arc User
      This discussion also reminds me of how odd it is that Earth is favored as the seat of power for the Federation, especially given that humanity was the weakest of the founding members. Given the talk about unity and equality you would think that at some point they would have tried to establish a proper neutral location for a capitol.

      A jointly developed colony world would be the ideal solution, although a large space station would also work. (imagines a Federation style version of the Citadel)
    • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,354 Arc User
      lordrezeon wrote: »
      This discussion also reminds me of how odd it is that Earth is favored as the seat of power for the Federation, especially given that humanity was the weakest of the founding members. Given the talk about unity and equality you would think that at some point they would have tried to establish a proper neutral location for a capitol.

      A jointly developed colony world would be the ideal solution, although a large space station would also work. (imagines a Federation style version of the Citadel)
      I'd thought that in "Journey To Babel", it was kind of implied that occasions like the Babel Conference were what the Federation of the age used in place of a capitol world. (Of course, the movies did establish Earth as the official meeting place of the Federation Council, because Humans Are Special...) I kind of preferred the Babel idea, personally. It never sat well with me that any member world of the Federation should be set aside as its "capitol", much as the way that the capitol of the US is placed in its own district rather than being in any one state.
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    • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
      Well, ENT tried to explain why it's on Earth. Namely that the Federation was created as a result of Archer talking the Andorians, Tellarites, and Vulcans into working together.

      I think Babel was a situation where they needed to have a diplomatic conference at the location being discussed in the conference.
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    • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
      edited March 2017
      @jonsills: Yeah, I prefer Mass Effect's solution. The Citadel Council and the Systems Alliance both put their capitals in neutral-ish territory (respectively the Citadel and a space station in the strategically located Arcturus system), kind of like the original conception of Washington DC was to avoid the appearance of favoritism towards any particular state (they ended up cutting some land out of Virginia and Maryland). I dislike Babylon 5 moving the capital of the Interstellar Alliance from B5 to Minbar for much the same reason.

      And of course the new Star Wars movies have the Republic moving its capital around every few years, rather like medieval kings would often move between vassals' courts instead of having a permanent capital.
      "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
      — Sabaton, "Great War"
      VZ9ASdg.png

      Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
    • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
      there's a lot that's been said, but the tv shows never gave an over all picture. We know there's a central governing body with representatives from the member worlds, and a president. how these people come into office we have no idea. It's possible the representatives might not be elected officials at all. Several times we've seen people referred to as "Ambassadors" who seemed to be hanging out talking to other Federation Ambassadors. I kind of wonder if maybe the Federation council is simply a collection of Ambassadors from the various worlds.

      Another thing is that member worlds apparently have a large amount of autonomy. We know that Bolaar has active treaties signed by the government of Bolaar and not the Federation council.
      -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
      My character Tsin'xing
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