Or...is it counter-productive now NOT to have BFAW?
Well I suppose that @e30ernest YouTube links should have given you a good idea what all works quite nicely as well.
A lot argue that despite what works just good, BFAW still works “best”. What most don’t like to see when making such an estimate is that they measure this only by the standards we get when fighting the Borg (with ISA in particular) so in other words 3-4 maps.
I found when fighting non Borg foes like the Crystalline Entity or especially the new Tzenkethi that Cannons, Torpedoes and Science powers give a whole lot more to the DPS table, not to mention the match duration, than fire at will does.
In my opinion the mindset of players claiming that STO is built around BFAW is quiet limited to a rather a small portion of the game that nobody ever forced them to confine themselves to. If they are happy there, fine. If not, just step out.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
The game is not built around anything, it's that a large portion of the player base builds its ships around what ever is the best meta at the time..
Once it was cannon builds.. they were the go to for everything....
Then aux to bat builds...
Then sci and proc console builds....
There will always be the best layout.. and they become the FOTM and then its nerfed or something is buffed and that becomes the new meta and the bulk of the builds lean to the new meta...
It's really we the community that dictate what we think is what the game is built around.. not so much the game.. as many off builds are viable for the majority of the content.
People use FAW a lot of the time because they just want a rapid fire beam attack.
solution is: new tac power 'beam rapid fire' and for those other ppl who use cannons we have new tac power "cannon fire at will"
There already is a "cannon fire at will" ability though, it's called scatter volley.
What is needed is:
Beams
Beam Fire at Will - low power AOE attack for hitting spam like torps, fighters etc. Attractsa shed load of aggro if it's used against bigger targets.
Beam Overload - single massive heavy blast against a single target.
Beam Rapid Fire - similar idea to current BFAW but against a single target only. The rapid fire beam attack we need to be added.
Cannons
Cannon Scatter Volley - as it is, hits x targets in your weapon's arc.
Cannon "overload" - a heavy shot against a single target in the same idea as BO.
Cannon Rapid Fire - as it is now, rapid fire on a single target.
With 3 proper full lists of abilities for each weapon type it stops there being one ability to rule them all as we have with BFAW right now.
I don't really blame players for their reliance on BFAW, they are using the best ability for the job.It's the poor design of the game that is causing this by creating a single overpowered ability that makes all others redundant.
Ship builds are relative, no matter which build it is.
Whatever one likes for their personal build is what's right for them and there's no need to go yelling that your build is what's best and what *everyone* should have.
I like to play around with different builds according to which captain I happen to be playing. I have several in each ability (tac/sci/eng) and build accordingly or play around with different things till something works the way I want it to.
So, no, the game isn't built around any one ability. It may be built around the tac specialty more than the other two, but that doesn't make the other two redundant or useless. In fact, I prefer my sci or eng captains over my tac captains.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
For ships that lack a quick turn rate, I would recommend a beam setup that included BFAW. But for vessels with a very fast turn rate like escorts, BoP's and Raptors, I would go cannons. Ships that strafe, I think cannons are a better bet...even for better DPS. I prefer cannons on my Tactical Pilot Raptor.
Exactly! I've been tempted to give single cannons/turrets or all turrets a try myself, just to see what it would be like.
All Turrets is fun. They all fire out of the same spot like a machinegun. It can be weird sometimes though as the spot that it fires from could be the rear of the ship causing the machinegunning to fire through the saucer. I suggest Plasma as the Automated Defense Turret Console is of a Plasma Element.
I have a character that has the Steamrunner built to be a Tricobalt artillery ship like in Star Trek Armada. It's so much fun to fly, even if the DPS isn't awesomesauce. Tricobalt Warhead, Bio-Neural Warhead, Wide Arc Quantum and a Dual Beam Bank (plus an aft Omni-Phaser) for helping take down shields, plus a Tricobalt Mine.
Problem is, I built that ship on a lesser played alt who's signature ship is the Ambassador Class, not the Steamrunner. So I have to get another Bio-Neural Warhead to re-make that ship on a different character.
I loved Armada. I used to mod the TRIBBLE out of that game, too. Shame it is a bit difficult to play on modern operating systems.
Tricobalt Bombers work best in my experience if you use Gravity Well to pull the enemy together and then use Torpedo Spread 3. That way they all get hit with everyone else's AoE splash in addition to the torpedoes' base damage. Mine regularly does 200K to 300K per shot with that.
I don't use energy weapons on Torpedo Boat, personally. I prefer rear Mines with the "Hot Pursuit" Trait as that doubles the lock-on and chase range essentially making the mines in to 5-to-6 kilometer torpedo turrets.
Have you considered using the Temporal Disruption Device from the Lobi Store? It is a Chroniton Torpedo that hits with the power of a Tricobalt (both damage-wise and in Rift Generation) and has 100% hit rate for the standard Chroniton Debuffs. It has built-in Phasing making it a Targetable Torpedo that can only occasionally be Targeted. Also, when High Yield is active, it gives the Debuffs to every enemy that it passes on the way to the target.
BFAW is in general the best form of pew-pew combat. You can hit multiple targets and manage large NPC counts, i.e. control the amount of Herald NPC spam. BFAW also is better in slamming a single target better than BO (GG, Crypitc, GG).
Beamboating, namely the Beam Array styled ones, is also the safest form of combat. Beam Array Beamboating lets the player keep moving, all he has to do is keep his sides pointed at the target so all the BA's are on target, firing. By being constantly on the move that ship maintains decent Bonus Defense so not all shots hit it. In contrast, narrow-arc focused builds relying on DHCs, DCs, even DBBs must rely on turreting to maintain weapons time on target, thereby eating EVERY SHOT sent their way. Or they use Strafing / Attack Runs, which ensures great defensive properties but very poor weapons time on target.
Beam Array Beamboating, doing BFAW is the most tactically sound, easiest to fly, easiest to achieve style of play in the game. It's both good in damage output, manages NPC count, and gives good defense. You won't find any pew-pew play any better than that.
The game wasn't designed around FaW, but the recent development of PowerCreep heavily favors FaW. Science is receiving a lot of love with the last two Seasons, but even then, Energy weapons (and by extension, FaW) still receive the vast majority of powers/gear developed.
I think it would be interesting if they made Beam-overload affect all of the beams you had slotted on your ships, but then tied the power of the bonus from it to how many beam arrays are affected. So in this example if you used beam overload with say one dual beam bank or single beam array slotted that beam would have it's damage output boosted by 80%, having their critical hit chance boosted by 80%, and also having also a boost of 240% to the critical severity of the slotted beam. While these same bonuses would be divided evenly between all of the beams you had slotted if you had multiple. Such a change I think could actually make beam-overload more viable a choice alongside beam fire at will.
For slotting multiple beams, I was thinking of the reverse: Have the power of all of the BO potentials for each array/DBB fired through one DBB/array, then take it off-line for X seconds. Yes, it's nasty for PvP, but look at the state of PvP as-is right now, and this is just another addition to imbalanced powerCreep that has already proliferated PvP. In PvE, it'll do what BO was intended to do; be that one-hit wonder.
I think it would be interesting if they made Beam-overload affect all of the beams you had slotted on your ships, but then tied the power of the bonus from it to how many beam arrays are affected. So in this example if you used beam overload with say one dual beam bank or single beam array slotted that beam would have it's damage output boosted by 80%, having their critical hit chance boosted by 80%, and also having also a boost of 240% to the critical severity of the slotted beam. While these same bonuses would be divided evenly between all of the beams you had slotted if you had multiple. Such a change I think could actually make beam-overload more viable a choice alongside beam fire at will.
For slotting multiple beams, I was thinking of the reverse: Have the power of all of the BO potentials for each array/DBB fired through one DBB/array, then take it off-line for X seconds. Yes, it's nasty for PvP, but look at the state of PvP as-is right now, and this is just another addition to imbalanced powerCreep that has already proliferated PvP. In PvE, it'll do what BO was intended to do; be that one-hit wonder.
That would though keep it in the same place and issue it is in now, being a yes high damage output buff for a single weapon, much like how torp high-yield though there is more mechanics that can alter how high yield interacts making it a bit more viable choice next to torp-spread. The idea I had was to retain the idea of a single high damage output buffing ability, but also expand it to have more viability in other builds. Both ideas do in ways do this, though who knows which would be prefered by the players. To me this though would make more sense as either a trait that you could slot altering how bo works when used with multiple beam array/banks, but you could also change it into a toggle that has the draw back that once toggled off (either by yourself, or thru a mechanic) would cause your equipped beams having a reduced damage output for a short period of time afterwards.
I think it would be interesting if they made Beam-overload affect all of the beams you had slotted on your ships, but then tied the power of the bonus from it to how many beam arrays are affected. So in this example if you used beam overload with say one dual beam bank or single beam array slotted that beam would have it's damage output boosted by 80%, having their critical hit chance boosted by 80%, and also having also a boost of 240% to the critical severity of the slotted beam. While these same bonuses would be divided evenly between all of the beams you had slotted if you had multiple. Such a change I think could actually make beam-overload more viable a choice alongside beam fire at will.
For slotting multiple beams, I was thinking of the reverse: Have the power of all of the BO potentials for each array/DBB fired through one DBB/array, then take it off-line for X seconds. Yes, it's nasty for PvP, but look at the state of PvP as-is right now, and this is just another addition to imbalanced powerCreep that has already proliferated PvP. In PvE, it'll do what BO was intended to do; be that one-hit wonder.
Thanks for considering PvP in your comment, it's much appreciated.
I think it would be interesting if they made Beam-overload affect all of the beams you had slotted on your ships, but then tied the power of the bonus from it to how many beam arrays are affected. So in this example if you used beam overload with say one dual beam bank or single beam array slotted that beam would have it's damage output boosted by 80%, having their critical hit chance boosted by 80%, and also having also a boost of 240% to the critical severity of the slotted beam. While these same bonuses would be divided evenly between all of the beams you had slotted if you had multiple. Such a change I think could actually make beam-overload more viable a choice alongside beam fire at will.
For slotting multiple beams, I was thinking of the reverse: Have the power of all of the BO potentials for each array/DBB fired through one DBB/array, then take it off-line for X seconds. Yes, it's nasty for PvP, but look at the state of PvP as-is right now, and this is just another addition to imbalanced powerCreep that has already proliferated PvP. In PvE, it'll do what BO was intended to do; be that one-hit wonder.
Thanks for considering PvP in your comment, it's much appreciated.
LOL! I love PvP in this game.. when it's not super busted.... I usually think about it quite a bit, even in my Q's to the dev's.
Bfaw is boring, better use Csv at least you have to aim your ship. It easier to use beam (lazy weapon) as you don't have to aim and hits faster but the game is not built around Bfaw you can use other weapons.
I think it would be interesting if they made Beam-overload affect all of the beams you had slotted on your ships, but then tied the power of the bonus from it to how many beam arrays are affected. So in this example if you used beam overload with say one dual beam bank or single beam array slotted that beam would have it's damage output boosted by 80%, having their critical hit chance boosted by 80%, and also having also a boost of 240% to the critical severity of the slotted beam. While these same bonuses would be divided evenly between all of the beams you had slotted if you had multiple. Such a change I think could actually make beam-overload more viable a choice alongside beam fire at will.
For slotting multiple beams, I was thinking of the reverse: Have the power of all of the BO potentials for each array/DBB fired through one DBB/array, then take it off-line for X seconds. Yes, it's nasty for PvP, but look at the state of PvP as-is right now, and this is just another addition to imbalanced powerCreep that has already proliferated PvP. In PvE, it'll do what BO was intended to do; be that one-hit wonder.
Thanks for considering PvP in your comment, it's much appreciated.
LOL! I love PvP in this game.. when it's not super busted.... I usually think about it quite a bit, even in my Q's to the dev's.
The last time I PVPed regularly like a mad man was when Dyson Rep was new. That said, every update, addition that comes up, I still read it with a bit of a PVP angle on it simply due to old habit.
Like Surgical Strikes when DR came out... "I'm so glad I'm not dealing with that" And there's been so much added since DR that is unrestrained Power Creep.
I love my BFAW whenever I get in multiple target situations; I love my BO whenever I engage tough single targets. As decried as they are as ineffective I nearly always have one DBB in my cruisers and having that one crit with a BOIII is a beauty to behold .
On ships that suck with their tac-boff stations (like all Galaxy versions up to T5u) its only BFAW and either HY or TT.
I firmly believe there is no problem in STO that cannot be solved in the same way as Nero and firing EVERYTHING!
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
The game is "build around" BFAW just in the sense that it absolutely prefers AoE attacks to anything else. STOs gameplay consists - without maybe two exceptions I can think of - entirely of plowing through trash mobs. Basically, you do not ever encounter a single target that would require single target tactics and even if you do, the AoE attacks have absolutely no drawbacks whatsoever when used against single targets. That means you never, ever want to use anything but AoE and BFAW is the most convenient of the bunch. Until Cryptic either learns about AoE vs. single target or stops to willfully ignore this mechanic there won't be much evolution in STO.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
The game is "build around" BFAW just in the sense that it absolutely prefers AoE attacks to anything else. STOs gameplay consists - without maybe two exceptions I can think of - entirely of plowing through trash mobs. Basically, you do not ever encounter a single target that would require single target tactics and even if you do, the AoE attacks have absolutely no drawbacks whatsoever when used against single targets. That means you never, ever want to use anything but AoE and BFAW is the most convenient of the bunch. Until Cryptic either learns about AoE vs. single target or stops to willfully ignore this mechanic there won't be much evolution in STO.
We may not see eye to eye on many setting elements, but that is DEAD ON in regards to the BFAW mechanics having run amok.
I tend to think the new Gravity kills que is a deliberate attempt to make raw DPS in general and BFAW in particular less valuable for advancing the mission. Sadly, the rewards are horrifically bad for the time and effort it requires.
Comments
Well I suppose that @e30ernest YouTube links should have given you a good idea what all works quite nicely as well.
A lot argue that despite what works just good, BFAW still works “best”. What most don’t like to see when making such an estimate is that they measure this only by the standards we get when fighting the Borg (with ISA in particular) so in other words 3-4 maps.
I found when fighting non Borg foes like the Crystalline Entity or especially the new Tzenkethi that Cannons, Torpedoes and Science powers give a whole lot more to the DPS table, not to mention the match duration, than fire at will does.
In my opinion the mindset of players claiming that STO is built around BFAW is quiet limited to a rather a small portion of the game that nobody ever forced them to confine themselves to. If they are happy there, fine. If not, just step out.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Once it was cannon builds.. they were the go to for everything....
Then aux to bat builds...
Then sci and proc console builds....
There will always be the best layout.. and they become the FOTM and then its nerfed or something is buffed and that becomes the new meta and the bulk of the builds lean to the new meta...
It's really we the community that dictate what we think is what the game is built around.. not so much the game.. as many off builds are viable for the majority of the content.
There already is a "cannon fire at will" ability though, it's called scatter volley.
What is needed is:
Beams
Cannons
With 3 proper full lists of abilities for each weapon type it stops there being one ability to rule them all as we have with BFAW right now.
I don't really blame players for their reliance on BFAW, they are using the best ability for the job.It's the poor design of the game that is causing this by creating a single overpowered ability that makes all others redundant.
Whatever one likes for their personal build is what's right for them and there's no need to go yelling that your build is what's best and what *everyone* should have.
I like to play around with different builds according to which captain I happen to be playing. I have several in each ability (tac/sci/eng) and build accordingly or play around with different things till something works the way I want it to.
So, no, the game isn't built around any one ability. It may be built around the tac specialty more than the other two, but that doesn't make the other two redundant or useless. In fact, I prefer my sci or eng captains over my tac captains.
All Turrets is fun. They all fire out of the same spot like a machinegun. It can be weird sometimes though as the spot that it fires from could be the rear of the ship causing the machinegunning to fire through the saucer. I suggest Plasma as the Automated Defense Turret Console is of a Plasma Element.
I loved Armada. I used to mod the TRIBBLE out of that game, too. Shame it is a bit difficult to play on modern operating systems.
Tricobalt Bombers work best in my experience if you use Gravity Well to pull the enemy together and then use Torpedo Spread 3. That way they all get hit with everyone else's AoE splash in addition to the torpedoes' base damage. Mine regularly does 200K to 300K per shot with that.
I don't use energy weapons on Torpedo Boat, personally. I prefer rear Mines with the "Hot Pursuit" Trait as that doubles the lock-on and chase range essentially making the mines in to 5-to-6 kilometer torpedo turrets.
Have you considered using the Temporal Disruption Device from the Lobi Store? It is a Chroniton Torpedo that hits with the power of a Tricobalt (both damage-wise and in Rift Generation) and has 100% hit rate for the standard Chroniton Debuffs. It has built-in Phasing making it a Targetable Torpedo that can only occasionally be Targeted. Also, when High Yield is active, it gives the Debuffs to every enemy that it passes on the way to the target.
Beamboating, namely the Beam Array styled ones, is also the safest form of combat. Beam Array Beamboating lets the player keep moving, all he has to do is keep his sides pointed at the target so all the BA's are on target, firing. By being constantly on the move that ship maintains decent Bonus Defense so not all shots hit it. In contrast, narrow-arc focused builds relying on DHCs, DCs, even DBBs must rely on turreting to maintain weapons time on target, thereby eating EVERY SHOT sent their way. Or they use Strafing / Attack Runs, which ensures great defensive properties but very poor weapons time on target.
Beam Array Beamboating, doing BFAW is the most tactically sound, easiest to fly, easiest to achieve style of play in the game. It's both good in damage output, manages NPC count, and gives good defense. You won't find any pew-pew play any better than that.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
For slotting multiple beams, I was thinking of the reverse: Have the power of all of the BO potentials for each array/DBB fired through one DBB/array, then take it off-line for X seconds. Yes, it's nasty for PvP, but look at the state of PvP as-is right now, and this is just another addition to imbalanced powerCreep that has already proliferated PvP. In PvE, it'll do what BO was intended to do; be that one-hit wonder.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
That would though keep it in the same place and issue it is in now, being a yes high damage output buff for a single weapon, much like how torp high-yield though there is more mechanics that can alter how high yield interacts making it a bit more viable choice next to torp-spread. The idea I had was to retain the idea of a single high damage output buffing ability, but also expand it to have more viability in other builds. Both ideas do in ways do this, though who knows which would be prefered by the players. To me this though would make more sense as either a trait that you could slot altering how bo works when used with multiple beam array/banks, but you could also change it into a toggle that has the draw back that once toggled off (either by yourself, or thru a mechanic) would cause your equipped beams having a reduced damage output for a short period of time afterwards.
Thanks for considering PvP in your comment, it's much appreciated.
No. There's a couple of maps where it's really good. But other than that, no.
LOL! I love PvP in this game.. when it's not super busted.... I usually think about it quite a bit, even in my Q's to the dev's.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
The last time I PVPed regularly like a mad man was when Dyson Rep was new. That said, every update, addition that comes up, I still read it with a bit of a PVP angle on it simply due to old habit.
Like Surgical Strikes when DR came out... "I'm so glad I'm not dealing with that"
On ships that suck with their tac-boff stations (like all Galaxy versions up to T5u) its only BFAW and either HY or TT.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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We may not see eye to eye on many setting elements, but that is DEAD ON in regards to the BFAW mechanics having run amok.
I tend to think the new Gravity kills que is a deliberate attempt to make raw DPS in general and BFAW in particular less valuable for advancing the mission. Sadly, the rewards are horrifically bad for the time and effort it requires.