Star Trek should be going to a place where Star Trek's technology doesn't make sense for them to be able to reach.
For what reason exactly?
Imagination and actual progress. Even now in STO there's alot of 'technology' that doesn't make sense but yet there;s plenty of deus ex machina to throw about to have things make sense.
Look, it's really simple. Star Trek is stagnant. It's been that way since 2002. Right now it's suffering from ennui. People critique the newer movies yet they're ignoring how badly 'films' like Of Gods and Men and Renegades truly are. I have a feeling Discovery is going to be more of the same (as well as take alot of Axanar's thunder away from them.)
If it's to survive as a franchise, then Trek needs to drop all the B.S. and actually start modernizing and competing with other properties. (Star Wars, Continuum, Dark Matter, Mass Effect etc.) Because constantly catering to Voyager and DS9 fans gets dull quickly.
I'd love to have something completely new, that retains the elements of where Star Trek went before. Keep the traditions but for goodness sake, get out of the 24th century already. Even in sto.
Star Trek should be going to a place where Star Trek's technology doesn't make sense for them to be able to reach.
For what reason exactly?
Imagination and actual progress. Even now in STO there's alot of 'technology' that doesn't make sense but yet there;s plenty of deus ex machina to throw about to have things make sense.
Look, it's really simple. Star Trek is stagnant. It's been that way since 2002. Right now it's suffering from ennui. People critique the newer movies yet they're ignoring how badly 'films' like Of Gods and Men and Renegades truly are. I have a feeling Discovery is going to be more of the same (as well as take alot of Axanar's thunder away from them.)
If it's to survive as a franchise, then Trek needs to drop all the B.S. and actually start modernizing and competing with other properties. (Star Wars, Continuum, Dark Matter, Mass Effect etc.) Because constantly catering to Voyager and DS9 fans gets dull quickly.
I'd love to have something completely new, that retains the elements of where Star Trek went before. Keep the traditions but for goodness sake, get out of the 24th century already. Even in sto.
I agree with the general concept of what you're saying but there is no tech in Trek at all that allows inter-galactic travel in any reasonable timeframe. And honestly if not done really well, its a boring trope, its just VOY all over again with an even longer drive home and a huge 'not a damned thing' in between.
Of Gods and Men was an EXCELLENT movie especially as it was a true 'fan film' not a kickstarted multi-hundred thousand dollar production by professionals. Renegades..... well yeah that has no excuse for looking like it reused 1960s props....
The problem with "modernizing" Star Trek is you have to "reboot" it at this point.... by the end of TNG and even more so by VOY the solution to almost everything is 'lolz space magic' and usually in the worst possible way. JJTrek had a good idea but did it really bad in many ways... especially the second movie. Beyond may well redeem the KT tho, we need to see what the 4th movie does with it.
You might be interested in a fan project called "Pacific 201" which aims to go back and add some realism touches in a much earlier era of Trek, its an interesting concept imo, and could very well show a new direction for Trek in general.
iconian gateways...you can't get any more reasonable than 'instantaneous'
plus, the enterprise-j was designed for intergalactic travel - that means it can travel between galaxies; so clearly the federation found the technology needed at some point within the next hundred years
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
iconian gateways...you can't get any more reasonable than 'instantaneous'
plus, the enterprise-j was designed for intergalactic travel - that means it can travel between galaxies; so clearly the federation found the technology needed at some point within the next hundred years
Well for STO, yes I suppose that if the Iconians gave us access, that would work. I forgot about the pancake-prise.... I try really hard to do that every time someone reminds me of its existence... But yes, have to give ya that one as well, but if the Ent-J is intergalactic... then its going to be even worse about solving all its problems with space magic and hand waving.
Dunno, most sci fi, apart from Trek, these days are the typical "Dark and gritty" gloom and doom stories.....be it Battle Star Galactica, Star Wars, The Aliens films, Doctor Who and even Red Dwarf always show the future as something bleak gruesome.
Not at all. BSG possibly, but Star Wars is a war story so will have inherent darkness (similar to DS9) but it's core is a fantasy between different types of wizards, it's not sci-fi. Red Dwarf is not dark in the slightest, it's simply a used future. Alien is an example of a dark used future, but Red Dwarf is not.
Doctor Who dosn't have a future, it has dozens. Aline ones, fantasy ones, human ones, dark ones, utopia ones, happy ones, sad ones, magic ones, 21st-century-with-the-serial-numbers-filed-off ones.
Star Trek is not as bleak as BSG or Alien but it is never lighter than Red Dwarf.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
yes it is sci-fi; it was listed as such by every person that actually MATTERS, which doesn't include you
and if jedi and sith are wizards, so are ocampans, vorta, metreons, Q, wormhole aliens, organians and every other species that's ever used metaphysical abilities, so that makes star trek far more fantasy than star wars will ever be
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
yes it is sci-fi; it was listed as such by every person that actually MATTERS, which doesn't include you
and if jedi and sith are wizards, so are ocampans, vorta, metreons, Q, wormhole aliens, organians and every other species that's ever used metaphysical abilities, so that makes star trek far more fantasy than star wars will ever be
Aww. That's completely invalidated my point.
Oh no it hasn't because if it's fantasy (which it is) or if it's sci-fi (which it also is) (oops did that ruin your little rant?) doesn't matter as it's set in the past not the future and not as dark as Smokebailey is trying to make out.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
no, it ISN'T fantasy any more than the entire might and magic series is sci-fi because it happens to include several bits of advanced technology in what is otherwise a swords and sorcery setting
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
no, it ISN'T fantasy any more than the entire might and magic series is sci-fi because it happens to include several bits of advanced technology in what is otherwise a swords and sorcery setting
I have absolutely no stake in defining the genera of Star Wars. You've jumped on a phrase that was not a core part of my argument for something else.
If you want to believe there is no fantasy in a story that is centred around the wars and machinations sorounding two sides of a religion based on space magic then go ahead. If you wan't to believe I was claiming it's not sci-fi go ahead, I don't say that and I don't care if it is or it isn't.
Enjoy your popcorn.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
welp weren't star wars prequels hated for trying to bring some sort of sci-fi into the space magic of "The Force"? last time I checked people were arguing over midichlorians even now and if someone asked me they were quite valid attempt to bring any from of "science" into the story of The Force
and whole that argument reminds me that Wizards Aprentice movie which defines wizards which are obviously a fantasy stuff in factually scientifically sound way :P seems like some movies likes to balance the boundary between fantasy and sci-fi genres [btw dunno how out there in the world but boockstores over there still labels are sci-fi books AND fantasy books as subgenres of.... and now how to properly translate it.......
welp basically it's other world with the exacly same dictionary meaning as "fantasy".....
and random stuff barely connected to the lastes discuss and totally unrelated to OP
I've just realised few common stuff between rebooted BSG and Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda [I hope I spelled the name right xD]
both are 5 seasons long [afaik] and both stranded into weird spiritualistic stuff on ending seasons.... accident? I think not :P
[and why everyone in every sci-fi talk mentions BSG and no one seems to remember/know andromeda? :P]
Well I've only watched the first season of Andromeda, but I liked what I was seeing quite a bit .
Just saw a ship go by in STO yesterday tagged as belonging to the Worlds Commonwealth (fleet). Made me smile. I tend to think Rodenberry did a lot better work developing a setting where Federation-like inhumanly nicey-nice was an ideal that had crumbled under the awful pressures of being made up of far from purely altruistic and morale humans. An ideal maybe worth striving for, but not what most people wanted or would contribute to at cost to themselves. Its almost like he'd lived through the sixties by then and had sort of shed his 'pander to the hippies' design ethic.
I do tend to agree there's plenty left in this galaxy, particularly if we can get over VAST COSMIC THREATS and continue to do relatively local plotlines... like most of the TV episodes I might mention. Even the Tzenkethi activities are managing to stay relatively central to their own domain. It's pleasant, though I'm sure the revelation of the purple crystals will once again ramp things up to the level that only the Omniversal Messiah of Violence(us) can put things right. But I'm enjoying the coziness of the plot for now.
Star Wars (and many other trashy novels) have really soured "It came from another Galaxy!" stories for me. It's so unnecessary, and mostly says A ) the writer has no sense of scale/is ignorant of how big our galaxy is and B ) thinks their audience are too stupid to be impressed by a simple "they're from somewhere so far away in this galaxy that we'd never head of them". It tends to be a cheap grab for the epic that promises the rest of the writing is too weak to stand on its own.
ME:Andromeda at least has a base setting were having an almost two-million light year moat of empty intergalactic space between you and the bad things is entirely the point of going.
I'm pretty sure Noye was explicitly referred to as a threat to the entire galaxy.
The Borg certainly had that level of gravitas once, before they became punching bags both in Voyager and even moreso in STO. I still want to see them set back to the OMGRUNAWAY!! level or put entirely out of their misery. Their current status is more embarrassing than Darth Vader whining like a little bi-otch.
I would consider B'vat to be one of the better villains STO's had. Give the threat an name and a face and a voice. Make the fight personal and the stakes dear. You really only have to threaten one world to make a fight important. A dozen to make it HUGE. Putting hundreds or even thousands of worlds under threat is another one of those cheap grabs at epic. The Iconian War suffered from it not only while it was supposedly happening, being LOADED with tell-not-show failures, but in having absolutely no appreciable aftermath. Billions died (or so we're told-not-shown...), but not one single NPC ANYWHERE is mourning those loses.
as for space opera e.e. smith did that waaaaaay before gene roddenberry or george lucas did, just not on a limited t.v/movie budget and limited (for the time period) sfx..........besides e.e. smith's 'lensmen' series is waaaaay better than trek or star wars combined, besides if you look reaaaaal hard and think about it like i have for more than 30+ years you will see similarities to star trek and star wars there............
I also find it funny people would want to go to another galaxy when
-There is still the other HALF of the Delta Quadrant to explore
Like, there is so much stuff to deal with before Cryptic should ever consider going to another galaxy.
To further that, I don't think even the Federation in Daniel's time of the 31'st century can cross galaxies either.
NO MORE Delta Quadrant.
Honestly, STO caters too much to Voyager fans. For me Delta Rising was a complete chore to get through. I didn't care about the story, the agonizing, seemingly endless, boring "struggle" , or the idea of cleaning up the mess Janeway and co. should have resolved 30+ years before.
Delta Rising was just as dull and boring as Voyager itself. Star Trek shouldn't just end at the Delta Quadrant, it should be pushing past the boundaries and yes that includes going into Andromeda.
I'm not trying to be negative or overtly critical, but there should be less emphasis on cleaning up the messes of the 24th century and onto originally written 25th century concepts. I personally don't want to deal with Tuvok's or Miral Paris' issues of the day in 2416 or 2420, or 2476 or whenever.
Cryptic should totally turn the page on the TNG era. It's well more than time.
I also find it funny people would want to go to another galaxy when
-There is still the other HALF of the Delta Quadrant to explore
Like, there is so much stuff to deal with before Cryptic should ever consider going to another galaxy.
To further that, I don't think even the Federation in Daniel's time of the 31'st century can cross galaxies either.
NO MORE Delta Quadrant.
Honestly, STO caters too much to Voyager fans. For me Delta Rising was a complete chore to get through. I didn't care about the story, the agonizing, seemingly endless, boring "struggle" , or the idea of cleaning up the mess Janeway and co. should have resolved 30+ years before.
Delta Rising was just as dull and boring as Voyager itself. Star Trek shouldn't just end at the Delta Quadrant, it should be pushing past the boundaries and yes that includes going into Andromeda.
I'm not trying to be negative or overtly critical, but there should be less emphasis on cleaning up the messes of the 24th century and onto originally written 25th century concepts. I personally don't want to deal with Tuvok's or Miral Paris' issues of the day in 2416 or 2420, or 2476 or whenever.
Cryptic should totally turn the page on the TNG era. It's well more than time.
So agree, Voyager was the worst.
Even so, I don't mind going back to stuff mentioned by the way side for STO. I just think that when we do- it should be different is in significant way from other stuff we've done. Cryptic unlike any of the shows have a budget limited only by their game engine- and they don't take advantage of it.
Comments
Imagination and actual progress. Even now in STO there's alot of 'technology' that doesn't make sense but yet there;s plenty of deus ex machina to throw about to have things make sense.
Look, it's really simple. Star Trek is stagnant. It's been that way since 2002. Right now it's suffering from ennui. People critique the newer movies yet they're ignoring how badly 'films' like Of Gods and Men and Renegades truly are. I have a feeling Discovery is going to be more of the same (as well as take alot of Axanar's thunder away from them.)
If it's to survive as a franchise, then Trek needs to drop all the B.S. and actually start modernizing and competing with other properties. (Star Wars, Continuum, Dark Matter, Mass Effect etc.) Because constantly catering to Voyager and DS9 fans gets dull quickly.
I'd love to have something completely new, that retains the elements of where Star Trek went before. Keep the traditions but for goodness sake, get out of the 24th century already. Even in sto.
I agree with the general concept of what you're saying but there is no tech in Trek at all that allows inter-galactic travel in any reasonable timeframe. And honestly if not done really well, its a boring trope, its just VOY all over again with an even longer drive home and a huge 'not a damned thing' in between.
Of Gods and Men was an EXCELLENT movie especially as it was a true 'fan film' not a kickstarted multi-hundred thousand dollar production by professionals. Renegades..... well yeah that has no excuse for looking like it reused 1960s props....
The problem with "modernizing" Star Trek is you have to "reboot" it at this point.... by the end of TNG and even more so by VOY the solution to almost everything is 'lolz space magic' and usually in the worst possible way. JJTrek had a good idea but did it really bad in many ways... especially the second movie. Beyond may well redeem the KT tho, we need to see what the 4th movie does with it.
You might be interested in a fan project called "Pacific 201" which aims to go back and add some realism touches in a much earlier era of Trek, its an interesting concept imo, and could very well show a new direction for Trek in general.
plus, the enterprise-j was designed for intergalactic travel - that means it can travel between galaxies; so clearly the federation found the technology needed at some point within the next hundred years
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Well for STO, yes I suppose that if the Iconians gave us access, that would work. I forgot about the pancake-prise.... I try really hard to do that every time someone reminds me of its existence... But yes, have to give ya that one as well, but if the Ent-J is intergalactic... then its going to be even worse about solving all its problems with space magic and hand waving.
Not at all. BSG possibly, but Star Wars is a war story so will have inherent darkness (similar to DS9) but it's core is a fantasy between different types of wizards, it's not sci-fi. Red Dwarf is not dark in the slightest, it's simply a used future. Alien is an example of a dark used future, but Red Dwarf is not.
Doctor Who dosn't have a future, it has dozens. Aline ones, fantasy ones, human ones, dark ones, utopia ones, happy ones, sad ones, magic ones, 21st-century-with-the-serial-numbers-filed-off ones.
Star Trek is not as bleak as BSG or Alien but it is never lighter than Red Dwarf.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
and if jedi and sith are wizards, so are ocampans, vorta, metreons, Q, wormhole aliens, organians and every other species that's ever used metaphysical abilities, so that makes star trek far more fantasy than star wars will ever be
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Aww. That's completely invalidated my point.
Oh no it hasn't because if it's fantasy (which it is) or if it's sci-fi (which it also is) (oops did that ruin your little rant?) doesn't matter as it's set in the past not the future and not as dark as Smokebailey is trying to make out.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
will this go on long enough that I should dig out the nachos and warm the cheese as well?
I have absolutely no stake in defining the genera of Star Wars. You've jumped on a phrase that was not a core part of my argument for something else.
If you want to believe there is no fantasy in a story that is centred around the wars and machinations sorounding two sides of a religion based on space magic then go ahead. If you wan't to believe I was claiming it's not sci-fi go ahead, I don't say that and I don't care if it is or it isn't.
Enjoy your popcorn.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
and whole that argument reminds me that Wizards Aprentice movie which defines wizards which are obviously a fantasy stuff in factually scientifically sound way :P seems like some movies likes to balance the boundary between fantasy and sci-fi genres [btw dunno how out there in the world but boockstores over there still labels are sci-fi books AND fantasy books as subgenres of.... and now how to properly translate it.......
welp basically it's other world with the exacly same dictionary meaning as "fantasy".....
and random stuff barely connected to the lastes discuss and totally unrelated to OP
I've just realised few common stuff between rebooted BSG and Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda [I hope I spelled the name right xD]
both are 5 seasons long [afaik] and both stranded into weird spiritualistic stuff on ending seasons.... accident? I think not :P
[and why everyone in every sci-fi talk mentions BSG and no one seems to remember/know andromeda? :P]
Just saw a ship go by in STO yesterday tagged as belonging to the Worlds Commonwealth (fleet). Made me smile. I tend to think Rodenberry did a lot better work developing a setting where Federation-like inhumanly nicey-nice was an ideal that had crumbled under the awful pressures of being made up of far from purely altruistic and morale humans. An ideal maybe worth striving for, but not what most people wanted or would contribute to at cost to themselves. Its almost like he'd lived through the sixties by then and had sort of shed his 'pander to the hippies' design ethic.
Star Wars (and many other trashy novels) have really soured "It came from another Galaxy!" stories for me. It's so unnecessary, and mostly says A ) the writer has no sense of scale/is ignorant of how big our galaxy is and B ) thinks their audience are too stupid to be impressed by a simple "they're from somewhere so far away in this galaxy that we'd never head of them". It tends to be a cheap grab for the epic that promises the rest of the writing is too weak to stand on its own.
ME:Andromeda at least has a base setting were having an almost two-million light year moat of empty intergalactic space between you and the bad things is entirely the point of going.
The Borg certainly had that level of gravitas once, before they became punching bags both in Voyager and even moreso in STO. I still want to see them set back to the OMGRUNAWAY!! level or put entirely out of their misery. Their current status is more embarrassing than Darth Vader whining like a little bi-otch.
I would consider B'vat to be one of the better villains STO's had. Give the threat an name and a face and a voice. Make the fight personal and the stakes dear. You really only have to threaten one world to make a fight important. A dozen to make it HUGE. Putting hundreds or even thousands of worlds under threat is another one of those cheap grabs at epic. The Iconian War suffered from it not only while it was supposedly happening, being LOADED with tell-not-show failures, but in having absolutely no appreciable aftermath. Billions died (or so we're told-not-shown...), but not one single NPC ANYWHERE is mourning those loses.
Kylo Ren just thinks he's Vader, which makes his emo hissy fits even more embarassing
Plus the added bonus of incest!
NO MORE Delta Quadrant.
Honestly, STO caters too much to Voyager fans. For me Delta Rising was a complete chore to get through. I didn't care about the story, the agonizing, seemingly endless, boring "struggle" , or the idea of cleaning up the mess Janeway and co. should have resolved 30+ years before.
Delta Rising was just as dull and boring as Voyager itself. Star Trek shouldn't just end at the Delta Quadrant, it should be pushing past the boundaries and yes that includes going into Andromeda.
I'm not trying to be negative or overtly critical, but there should be less emphasis on cleaning up the messes of the 24th century and onto originally written 25th century concepts. I personally don't want to deal with Tuvok's or Miral Paris' issues of the day in 2416 or 2420, or 2476 or whenever.
Cryptic should totally turn the page on the TNG era. It's well more than time.
So agree, Voyager was the worst.
Even so, I don't mind going back to stuff mentioned by the way side for STO. I just think that when we do- it should be different is in significant way from other stuff we've done. Cryptic unlike any of the shows have a budget limited only by their game engine- and they don't take advantage of it.