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Whats still wrong with STO?

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  • nimbullnimbull Member Posts: 1,564 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    ssbn655 wrote: »
    nimbull wrote: »
    They should add more raid type content like the fleet starbase defense where you have like 20 people or Starbase 24 when I was leveling Fed a while back. They also had that ground pyramid map where you fight Romulans. Maybe start out by revamping those so they offer more end game style challenge and reward.

    Oh so you want the cluster f#ck of WOW raiding here? Where you need huge numbers of guild members to ruin a raid and the whole mess of getting the raid set up when you have players in a fleet living in every time zone around the planet? My own fleet and it's sister fleets have members in Australia, Every time zone in the U.S. and Canada and in Europe as well. Yeah your ideas all well and good if your fleet all lives in one time zone. Plus look at how dead the large pve's are in STO. Agian the time zone thing even for pugging. The game is different now then it was 2-3-5 years ago and large player requirement PVE's with few exceptions are dead for all intents. Instead of big 24 member raids I rather see some of the PVE's made solo or 2 player. The reason for this some are a lot of fun for some players but rarely have the minimum 5 players to run. The vault ones in particular.

    I want the large group queues to have more relevance and be updated to support more end game content rewards like marks for reps, dilithium, and/or fleet marks. Those aren't WoW type raids but they are raids. They can also be updated to be more relevant for today's game which gives everyone options and may attract more people who do like large group content while you stay in the 5 mans or battlezones if you like.
    Green people don't have to be.... little.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,688 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    A good mmo should have everything for everyone,

    Not if they lose money doing it.

    Cryptic is giving the majority of paying customers what they want. There are not enough niche players to fund development and maintenance of raids and pvp. They are still in business so apparently they do have some idea of what they are doing.
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  • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    azrael605 wrote: »
    @tremere12

    I cannot disagree more. For starters, after more than 5 years of daily playing Tac is still my least used character class, I much prefer Sci, and Eng is far more fun on ground. Aside from my monthly subscription I haven't spent a dime in several years and I don't parse, so much for the "cashgrab dps grindfest".

    Lastly don't try to judge the story missions if you don't even bother reading the dialogue.

    I've read through them once, to give them a chance, but didn't bother a second time. Didn't grab me like the older missions used to.

    My main is a Sci, my Engi is my secondary main and my Tac is on the third place. Playing tac isn't very fun to me either. But I'm not talking about fun, I'm talking about non-dps classes/roles becoming obselete for many reasons.

    @davefenestrator

    They're in the business - but that doesn't mean anything to players like me. Delta Rising caused thousands to leave, go figure from there.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,688 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    tremere12 wrote: »
    @davefenestrator

    They're in the business - but that doesn't mean anything to players like me. Delta Rising caused thousands to leave, go figure from there.

    If you walk into a burger joint and they don't offer buckets of fried chicken you're free to say their business decisions don't mean anything to you, but you'll still need to go elsewhere for your chicken and biscuits. "Everything for everyone" is a noble goal but is not practical for many businesses.

    Online games have thousands of players leave all the time, especially burned-out veterans. For a business the questions are which ones left (whales vs. the free players) and how many new players joined to replace them.
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  • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    edited February 2017


    I know exactly the direction Cryptic started taking since DR, and there's a 300% chance it stays this way, but I sure enjoy throwing acidic comments around for the hell of it.


    PS: A better thread title would be "what is NOT wrong with STO?"
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  • watever2watever2 Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    Being a leader in a large armada I do a lot of recruiting and a lot of inactive removal. In Oct I removed 170 inactive members from 1 fleet yet in the same month probably recruited 200 members. So out of 100 new recruits maybe 10-15 will stay. It always amazes me there are still people joining who have just bought the game.
    Some people here seem to have the attitude of "The game does what I want so I don't care what other people want." Which is a shame. Someone also said "Well the game is not about PvP so if you want that go elsewhere." Really? Then why bother putting a PvP element to the game? Either do it well for the people that DO want it or don't bother.
    The argument "Cryptic have to make money so they pander to the majority." Doesn't wash with me. It was their choice to go f2p and you don't have to look very far to find games that give content while still making money. I would gladly pay cashy money for an expansion if it improves the game.
    I have to mention (and I know I will get flamed for it) that lock boxes are a menace to this game. Well done mate, you paid £100 for a bunch of keys and got a T6 ship and some consoles. Your sense of achievement must be palpable. It's gambling with digital prizes......... makes no sense to me.
    Anyway, Cryptic (Perfect World) are not gonna change their gambling text adventure mmo aimed at solo players while it brings in the cash so I should probably just turn my back on the armada I helped build and the friends I made and play ESO instead......... Right?
    Actually don't answer that, I already know what your'e gonna say.
  • watever2watever2 Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    tremere12 wrote: »
    PS: A better thread title would be "what is NOT wrong with STO?"

    Nope, sorry, my one sounds better.

  • garaks31garaks31 Member Posts: 2,845 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    Whats Still Wrong With STO? - A game is only as strong as it's Community!

    the system would rather see, separate 5-25 man fleets. so people would waste their dilit on individual fleet progression ...
    so stick together, work together. always in teams, always as big fleets, big armadas. this way new players and veterans will always have something to do. more new players and more community activities. will mean more content and from that more content maybe some will also satisfy your expectations.

    ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country ...
    Post edited by garaks31 on
  • ssbn655ssbn655 Member Posts: 1,894 Arc User
    nimbull wrote: »
    ssbn655 wrote: »
    nimbull wrote: »
    They should add more raid type content like the fleet starbase defense where you have like 20 people or Starbase 24 when I was leveling Fed a while back. They also had that ground pyramid map where you fight Romulans. Maybe start out by revamping those so they offer more end game style challenge and reward.

    Oh so you want the cluster f#ck of WOW raiding here? Where you need huge numbers of guild members to ruin a raid and the whole mess of getting the raid set up when you have players in a fleet living in every time zone around the planet? My own fleet and it's sister fleets have members in Australia, Every time zone in the U.S. and Canada and in Europe as well. Yeah your ideas all well and good if your fleet all lives in one time zone. Plus look at how dead the large pve's are in STO. Agian the time zone thing even for pugging. The game is different now then it was 2-3-5 years ago and large player requirement PVE's with few exceptions are dead for all intents. Instead of big 24 member raids I rather see some of the PVE's made solo or 2 player. The reason for this some are a lot of fun for some players but rarely have the minimum 5 players to run. The vault ones in particular.

    I want the large group queues to have more relevance and be updated to support more end game content rewards like marks for reps, dilithium, and/or fleet marks. Those aren't WoW type raids but they are raids. They can also be updated to be more relevant for today's game which gives everyone options and may attract more people who do like large group content while you stay in the 5 mans or battlezones if you like.

    Sorry guy the evidence to support your claim that large group raids would attract more to them is lacking. Have you even looked at the quques? The only 10 man ones that are a live are the Crystilline quques. So your claim is invalid there are several 10 player quques and they are all dead 99% of the time. Hardly any player wants these but what most players want are some quques switched to being solos. Plus as it is even in 5 man ones there are always one or more players who by choice or by not knowing the battle are dead weight. A good player can make up for this in a small 5 man pve as the mobs are more or less scaled to that. Now picture a 10 player PVE and half the players are dead weight, two are AFK and 1 is under geared with the NPC's scaled to a 10 man team. Can you say fail?
  • darakossdarakoss Member Posts: 850 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    Sorry guy the evidence to support your claim that large group raids would attract more to them is lacking. Have you even looked at the quques? The only 10 man ones that are a live are the Crystilline quques. So your claim is invalid there are several 10 player quques and they are all dead 99% of the time. Hardly any player wants these but what most players want are some quques switched to being solos. Plus as it is even in 5 man ones there are always one or more players who by choice or by not knowing the battle are dead weight. A good player can make up for this in a small 5 man pve as the mobs are more or less scaled to that. Now picture a 10 player PVE and half the players are dead weight, two are AFK and 1 is under geared with the NPC's scaled to a 10 man team. Can you say fail?

    You mean queues? I think quques is Spanish for "cake". :p

    All in all I think STO is still fun but the stories are all the same every season. Hey there's a new bad guy we can't reason with so lets beam down and shoot them in the face.
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    original join date 2010

    Member: Team Trekyards. Visit Trekyards today!
  • theanothernametheanothername Member Posts: 1,512 Arc User
    watever2 wrote: »
    .
    .
    .

    There is a lot of small weird/broken stuff littered over the game that can lead to getting very annoyed after reaching a certain threshold. I think a lot long time players; pro or casual, have been there.

    The problem in that specific here, IMO, is not STO; its you being burned out from having made the game your job.

    Get your affairs in order, call the armada co-leaders you trust in to delegate what you currently do and take a year or so off. Unwind, play something else. And when you get the itch to come back, do it for the stuff you enjoy, not that which pisses you off.
  • watever2watever2 Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    The problem in that specific here, IMO, is not STO; its you being burned out from having made the game your job.
    Get your affairs in order, call the armada co-leaders you trust in to delegate what you currently do and take a year or so off. Unwind, play something else. And when you get the itch to come back, do it for the stuff you enjoy, not that which pisses you off.

    No truer word has yet been spoken.
    You are right and, deep down, I know that. I spend more time on armada admin than I do playing the game. I also make the artwork for our website and vidoes on the Demorecorder. Probably 10% of my time is actually playing the game. Maybe time off is necessary at this point.

  • watever2watever2 Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    garaks31 wrote: »
    ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country ...

    Hi Garak, I should know about our community, I am the second in command in your Armada (It's Sargon/Ramus). And I think I have done plenty for my country and now I think my country can do with out me for a while.

  • garaks31garaks31 Member Posts: 2,845 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    watever2 wrote: »
    garaks31 wrote: »
    Whats Still Wrong With STO? - A game is only as strong as it's Community!

    the system would rather see, separate 5-25 man fleets. so people would waste their dilit on individual fleet progression ...
    so stick together, work together. always in teams, always as big fleets, big armadas. this way new players and veterans will always have something to do. more new players and more community activities. will mean more content and from that more content maybe some will also satisfy your expectations.

    ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country ...


    Hi Garak, I should know about our community, I am the second in command in your Armada (It's Sargon/Ramus). And I think I have done plenty for my country and now I think my country can do with out me for a while.


    with country is meant the whole system the whole game. so what still wrong with sto in it's core is. too many little groups. Single play ... your personal contributions to the armada is excluded of course. and yes don't get yourself burned out.

    maybe there should be a daily limit to some of the grind's ;)
    Post edited by garaks31 on
  • goodscotchgoodscotch Member Posts: 1,680 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    Much of what the OP lists has some truth to it. Not sure how Cryptic would go about addressing some of the issues. The biggest obstacle of course is the game engine itself. The game engine provides for combat, both ship and ground, but predominately it's an engine with a heavy emphasis on grinding with a timer element. Most games of this type have these things. Don't get me wrong...it's neat and fun, but what can be done to address some of the things the OP lists?

    One of the game's strengths is that it's a wonderful storytelling engine. So, in my mind, they should make the Foundry, which enables the average player to create their own scenarios, more intuitive to use. They should also consider fleshing out the universe. Make more planets places that a player can visit, beam down to. I understand their need to create revenue streams, so they would have to figure out a way to monetize improvements.

    I'm always hopeful that the developers will continue to think about these things. New content is good, even if I don't have a specific interest in it.

    If you take time off from the game, enjoy!
    Post edited by goodscotch on
    klingon-bridge.jpg




  • shahademshahadem Member Posts: 43 Arc User
    Things still wrong with STO:
    1) Not being able to kill Sela;
    2) Excessive amounts of incoming damage in verse low shield and hp values in Ground Combat;
    3) Eng captains doing a lot less damage than tact and sci;
    4) Not being able to kill Sela;
    5) Interrupt on hit game mechanics;
    6) Invulnerable npc ships in queues;
    7) Not being able to kill Sela.

    Letting us kill Sela as soon as we meet her would fix 3/7 of the big problems in the game.
  • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    shahadem wrote: »
    Things still wrong with STO:
    1) Not being able to kill Sela;
    2) Excessive amounts of incoming damage in verse low shield and hp values in Ground Combat;
    3) Eng captains doing a lot less damage than tact and sci;
    4) Not being able to kill Sela;
    5) Interrupt on hit game mechanics;
    6) Invulnerable npc ships in queues;
    7) Not being able to kill Sela.

    Letting us kill Sela as soon as we meet her would fix 3/7 of the big problems in the game.

    I like Sela, and the game desperately needs more crazy/evil characters like that, because playing as a "good" guy is boring, cliché and predictable as fck. Good thing SWTOR exists.
  • shahademshahadem Member Posts: 43 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    Strange, from my point of view the newer missions are much better written than the old ones, Especially when you factor in stinkers like Divide et Imperia, I'd go so far as to say Midnight is better than the entire Klingon War arc, excluding Spectres. As I said I don't parse and never have, but people who have parsed runs I have been in (who respected my wishes not to know the numbers & thus did not get put on ignore) have informed me that my characters are quite respectable & my "Sci in a Nandi with TOS phasers" is a flat out killer.

    Midnight is by far the worst mission in the entire game because Midnight is nothing but the writer robbing you of your agency and then reveling in it by making stupid things happen that you easily could have prevented if you weren't robbed of your agency.
  • shahademshahadem Member Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    tremere12 wrote: »
    shahadem wrote: »
    Things still wrong with STO:
    1) Not being able to kill Sela;
    2) Excessive amounts of incoming damage in verse low shield and hp values in Ground Combat;
    3) Eng captains doing a lot less damage than tact and sci;
    4) Not being able to kill Sela;
    5) Interrupt on hit game mechanics;
    6) Invulnerable npc ships in queues;
    7) Not being able to kill Sela.

    Letting us kill Sela as soon as we meet her would fix 3/7 of the big problems in the game.

    I like Sela, and the game desperately needs more crazy/evil characters like that, because playing as a "good" guy is boring, cliché and predictable as fck. Good thing SWTOR exists.

    Sela isn't crazy or evil, Sela is the author's self insertion character that you aren't allowed to take any action against even though you have no reason not to simply shoot her immediately. The writer goes out of their way to save her from certain death, to give her all the good scenes, to rub your face in your lack of agency everytime Sela is on screen. The only reason why Sela is still alive is because the player is never allowed to take any action against Sela. She isn't an effective villain, she is the writer's character. She is actually an idiot who gets by because she is the writer's character.
    He’s standing in his study. He murders your friend in front of you. He laughs at trying to steal your youth. Then he explains to you that he’s betraying you to your (previous) worst enemy. You arrived thirty seconds ago and he’s given you three reasons to kill him already.
    There is simply no rational way to explain not killing him on the spot, except that the game won’t let you. Reaver is an obvious author-insertion character. The writer has just pranked you and is now taunting you because you’re not allowed to hit back.

    A bad railroader will use their power over the player character to force the PC to do things they would never choose to do on their own. Their (mostly illusory) autonomy is negated so that their character can be conscripted in service of the plot. The player will be forced to ally themselves with people they want to kill, surrender when they would rather fight, show mercy when they would rather have vengeance, blunder into obvious traps, and listen to villainous diatribes rather than simply taking action...You won’t be allowed to make any choices that deviate from your predetermined role as a clueless mute doormat.
  • makburemakbure Member Posts: 422 Arc User
    watever2 wrote: »
    I have had STO since 2010 and if it wasn't for the armada with 1500+ members I helped build I would have uninstalled STO ages ago. Here are some of my thoughts on what is wrong with STO.

    Classes are meaningless when the only objective in group content is who can do the most dps.
    Every PvE queue is little more than a dps race.
    Too much emphasis on the next lock box or ship no one has ever heard of instead of improving game mechanics.
    Despite what people say STO is a pay to win game, you can achieve high dps just by buying ships/consoles/upgrades.
    Special events are boring "Do this 100 times to get something mediocre".
    Dilithium and the daily refine limit is just there to strangle the less well off players and force the rich players to spend real money.
    PvP barely functions.
    Fleet starbases are supposed to be hubs for fleet members yet they are ghost towns because why would you go there?
    Story missions are bland go here, go there, operate this, with reams of text that detaches you from the immersion of being in a sci fi game.
    The hud is still as **** as it was on day 1. I have more abilities than I have action bars? And no I don't want to put main abilities on the vertical bar.
    Every race/class does the same missions from the start. Boring and tedious. Even bloody Klingons have to do What Lies Beneath???
    There is no sense of being part of a Federation/Defence Force uniting against a common foe. If STO was a TV series it would not make it past season 1.

    I started this game in 2010 as well. It was never really that good, I just stuck with it thinking it would grow, well it didn't really. The game mechanics are a big one as they most likely can't be upgraded to bring some of the better ideas suggested in the past to life. STO feels like it's on life support and the P2W model is what's paying the life support machine bill. It doesn't really feel alive and some don't want to let it go for some reason.

    Every one of your points hit it right on the head. For me, I check back to see if this dev team got it right this time, but I don't think they ever will. I quit my fleet and don't really play anymore, it was the final tie to cut.

    STO will be broken until it goes offline for good, you know this is the real truth.
    -Makbure
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,980 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    goodscotch wrote: »
    There is no sense of being part of a Federation/Defence Force uniting against a common foe.

    What? The following elements relate directly to a multi-species force uniting against a common foe:
    -Plot (missions)
    -Plot (season arcs)
    -Setting (written)
    -Setting (visual)
    -Character choice (allied NPC's)
    -Character choice (enemy NPC's)
    -Character choice (cameos)
    -Dialog (explicit exposition)
    -Reputations (fact of)
    -Reputations (explicit descriptions)
    -Admiralty (fact of)
    -Admiralty (mission descriptions)
    -Battlezones (NPC selection)
    -Battlezones (main objectives)
    -Battlezones (secondary objectives)
    -Battlezones (dialog)
    -PVE Queues (dialog, characters, and setting)
    -PVE Queues (basic design)

    There is no better way of describing the premise of STO, as it exists now, as "being part of a multi-species force uniting against a common foe." You may not feel it, but considering the objective facts of the game I do not see how you can arrive at that feeling. Maybe you've just burnt out. It happens, but remember that something like that is on you.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
  • istkokistkok Member Posts: 2 New User
    I noticed that the ship trait energy web doesn't work with cannon rapid fire even though it says it does
  • jaguarskxjaguarskx Member Posts: 5,945 Arc User
    tremere12 wrote: »

    A good mmo should have everything for everyone, but STO has become clearly bankrupt in certain key areas.

    I want to have a dragon that I can mount and fly.
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  • captainperkinscaptainperkins Member Posts: 379 Arc User
    we need Andy D emh...
  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,899 Arc User
    May sound odd to some but the thing that gets me is the voice acting being so very hit and miss. And limited.

    At points theres conversations between the same voice actress which is a big faux pas as she can only do one voice and its a wierd gravelly sounding one.

    Other times you get decent voices and the writing holds them back or like the current FE you have a conversation between two people and there's pregnant pauses which should never exist but do because the editting hasn't been done properly.

    And cryptic has never, ever been able to find someone able to do a scots accent in any of their games. DS9 arc has that horrendous "jings crivens help ma boab there's jem hadar comin" one and scotty's current actor rushes way too much which only emphasises the bad attempt at an accent.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,980 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    makbure wrote: »
    Midnight is by far the worst mission in the entire game because Midnight is nothing but the writer robbing you of your agency and then reveling in it by making stupid things happen that you easily could have prevented if you weren't robbed of your agency.

    Isn't Midnight the other way around? Through the Iconian War the player is sent on a series of increasingly questionable missions that highlight the desperate nature of the war and the gradual erosion of perspective in those in charge. There's a good reason for "not letting the player do whatever the hell they want." It's setting up the moment in Midnight where the player character finally "decides" to take the initiative against all the forces that have been pushing him/her to do the wrong thing. That's pay-off, making a Star Trek-esque point about Star Trek ideals though with a layer of complication, ensuring that all the bad things stay impactfully happened (we can't just wave it away with a magic temporal wand, which is kind of the point of the game now, through the temporal cold war arc.)

    If we had just had that moment from the start it definitely wouldn't have had an iota of the substance. Giving the player unlimited agency ain't worth taking a wrecking ball to narrative development.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
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