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The Kliggy

tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
The Kligat Kit module deals about 400+ damage on mk 14 (and -way- more when fully buffed on a tac), has a very low cooldown, 100% shield penetration, ALWAYS crits.... and last but not least, can be activated during stealth, and doesn't break it. Totally broken in PVP.

Seriously? Tone it down a bit?
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  • sorceror01sorceror01 Member Posts: 1,042 Arc User
    It sounds like it's working as intended, as the thing was pretty much always lethal in the shows.

    It doesn't have that long of a range, so just don't get too close to people who might be armed with one.


    And frankly, compared to all the regular monkey business people tend to pull in PVP in this game, the kligat isn't that big of a deal.
    ".... you're gonna have a bad time."
  • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    sorceror01 wrote: »


    And frankly, compared to all the regular monkey business people tend to pull in PVP in this game, the kligat isn't that big of a deal.

    Quite right, and normally I don't complain, but they went a little overboard here.
  • sorceror01sorceror01 Member Posts: 1,042 Arc User
    tremere12 wrote: »
    sorceror01 wrote: »


    And frankly, compared to all the regular monkey business people tend to pull in PVP in this game, the kligat isn't that big of a deal.

    Quite right, and normally I don't complain, but they went a little overboard here.

    Again, not at all.
    If anything, it gives people who normally wouldn't be too good at PVP on the ground somewhat of an edge (no pun intended) against people who know how to pull off insta-atomization on the norm.

    Like I said, the kligat still doesn't have the range of most other energy weapons. Just give someone who's got one a wide berth. Kligat's are deadly, but only to a point, and the simply don't have the "reload" speed of an energy weapon.
    ".... you're gonna have a bad time."
  • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    I'm happy if they just remove the stealth bug from it.
  • sorceror01sorceror01 Member Posts: 1,042 Arc User
    tremere12 wrote: »
    I'm happy if they just remove the stealth bug from it.

    That does sound like a bug, all weapons usually break stealth.
    Maybe since it's, well, basically a throwing knife, it registers differently to in-game stealth fields.

    But yeah, that could be a bug.
    ".... you're gonna have a bad time."
  • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    I'm using it myself - think of a cheesy tac-build, fleet recoil armor, trajectory bending = very massive crits. Ridiculous even PVE, so I'm not complaining as if I'm the victim here. Just that at some point everyone's gonna use it, and we all jump on the cookiecutter bandwagon.

  • sorceror01sorceror01 Member Posts: 1,042 Arc User
    Enh, it may get popular for a while, but I doubt it'll be that ubiquitous.

    And then people will stop being so fascinated by it and it'll be considered an off-beat doodad again.
    ".... you're gonna have a bad time."
  • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    If they don't fix the stealth at least, then that's fine. But just so you know, I won't be holding back in pvp. If you get repeatedly 1-shotted in the arena without even knowing where it even came from, don't say I didn't warn ya lol.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,961 Arc User
    sorceror01 wrote: »
    tremere12 wrote: »
    sorceror01 wrote: »


    And frankly, compared to all the regular monkey business people tend to pull in PVP in this game, the kligat isn't that big of a deal.

    Quite right, and normally I don't complain, but they went a little overboard here.

    Again, not at all.
    If anything, it gives people who normally wouldn't be too good at PVP on the ground somewhat of an edge (no pun intended) against people who know how to pull off insta-atomization on the norm.

    Like I said, the kligat still doesn't have the range of most other energy weapons. Just give someone who's got one a wide berth. Kligat's are deadly, but only to a point, and the simply don't have the "reload" speed of an energy weapon.

    Not really. An overpowered tool is always more effective in the hands of people that know what they are doing.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • sorceror01sorceror01 Member Posts: 1,042 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    sorceror01 wrote: »
    tremere12 wrote: »
    sorceror01 wrote: »


    And frankly, compared to all the regular monkey business people tend to pull in PVP in this game, the kligat isn't that big of a deal.

    Quite right, and normally I don't complain, but they went a little overboard here.

    Again, not at all.
    If anything, it gives people who normally wouldn't be too good at PVP on the ground somewhat of an edge (no pun intended) against people who know how to pull off insta-atomization on the norm.

    Like I said, the kligat still doesn't have the range of most other energy weapons. Just give someone who's got one a wide berth. Kligat's are deadly, but only to a point, and the simply don't have the "reload" speed of an energy weapon.

    Not really. An overpowered tool is always more effective in the hands of people that know what they are doing.

    While that may be true, the kligat is universally deadly and requires very little improvement to it. And it's only shortcomings, its range and its recharge speed, can only be affected so much as well.
    Again, I've seen people do what a kligat does from basically twice or three times the distance, and at a much faster rate, with more mundane weapons.
    And especially in PVP, if you miss with your first toss, you are not going to survive long enough for a second one, cuz you probably will face vaporization before the cooldown finishes.
    Plus, it's I find it somewhat amusing that we have relatively readily available shield-penetrating solid round sniper rifles floating around, and here are "concerns" being raised about what is essentially a throwing knife.
    Like I said, a kligat is deadly in practically anyone's hands, but it's not the deadliest thing people can get their hands on.
    ".... you're gonna have a bad time."
  • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    The range is 30 meters... practically sniper-mode.

    The cooldown for me at the moment is 8 seconds - enough to cause a massacre, but I ain't complaining. Just needs that stealth off it.
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    tremere12 wrote: »
    The Kligat Kit module deals about 400+ damage on mk 14 (and -way- more when fully buffed on a tac), has a very low cooldown, 100% shield penetration, ALWAYS crits.... and last but not least, can be activated during stealth, and doesn't break it. Totally broken in PVP.

    Seriously? Tone it down a bit?

    Don't care much about PvP, but I completely agree. This thing is OP, even at standard mk 12. You don't even have to upgrade it and yet you get an always critting and shield-ignoring ability that deals way more damage than most other kit abilities.

    It's fun to use a few times, but after a while you just have to admit that it's broken. They should have thought this through a bit more. Either remove the always critting thing, or significantly increase the cooldown would be my suggestion.

    I think it's pretty strange anyway that we get an ability that both ignores shields, and always crits and already deals quite a large amount of base damage at MK 12 (compared to grenades for example - an ability with a similar cooldown).
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    Or just remove the ignore shield-effect. We already have way too much shield ignoring stuff anyway, to the point I'm starting to wonder why we still have shields in the game.

    If at least a sacrifice is made for this shield-ignoring stuff (like with melee weapons) then it makes sense... but a weapon that already has so many benefits... there should always be a drawback and one weapon should never be able to benefit from so many special things.
  • chastity1337chastity1337 Member Posts: 1,580 Arc User
    Aside from a single moderate comment by mustrum, this whole thread consists of three people crusading against something they don't like. Talk about a tempest in a teacup.

    Please STOP asking the devs to nerf things! Nerfs are always bad, and it's not a mentality we should encourage.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,003 Arc User
    The devs should just remove PVP entirely. That would solve the "balance problems" and free up resources to work on other content.
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    It's not bad if it promotes balance. And yes, balance is also important in PvE.

    If one ability outperforms other abilities in all respects, then it will do nothing but dumb down the game and force anyone who wants a chance to kill something (before someone else kills it) to use the same dumb abilities. Guarding what's left of balance (and there is still some in the ground part of the game) is therefore something that benefits everyone in the end.

    Nothing good will come from adding OP stuff and so nerfs (or rather corrections to something that should never have been released in their current OP state in the first place) should be encouraged sometimes. They're not always bad, that's too simple.
  • sorceror01sorceror01 Member Posts: 1,042 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    Aside from a single moderate comment by mustrum, this whole thread consists of three people crusading against something they don't like. Talk about a tempest in a teacup.

    Please STOP asking the devs to nerf things! Nerfs are always bad, and it's not a mentality we should encourage.

    Especially since it seems the basic undertone of the disparaging arguments is that they dislike how it is basically a battlefield equalizer. I feel like some are lightly threatened by a weapon that helps those less skilled at ground PVP stand on even footing against them.
    My response to that is: you are still more skilled and have better weapons, you'll be fine, don't be so nervous about some greenhorn getting in a lucky hit with is giant arrowhead weapon.
    risian4 wrote: »
    Or just remove the ignore shield-effect. We already have way too much shield ignoring stuff anyway, to the point I'm starting to wonder why we still have shields in the game.

    If at least a sacrifice is made for this shield-ignoring stuff (like with melee weapons) then it makes sense... but a weapon that already has so many benefits... there should always be a drawback and one weapon should never be able to benefit from so many special things.

    It'll never not have the shield ignoring effect, as it deals kinetic damage and is literally a physical weapon.
    The drawback is that it is not ACTUALLY a weapon, but a kit module, and has a recharge time several times that of a standard sidearm; in the time it takes for you to "draw" another kligat, an opponent can easily get in several killing shots on you.
    The kligat can also miss, a rarity among kit modules, in which case you're left wide open like a dingus while everyone else draws a bead on you.
    And in the shows, the kligat is always a lethal hit weapon, since it almost always seems to get hucked right at a foe's heart-place with preposterous speed (hence why it always crits).
    McCoy astutely notes that those skilled with a kligat have more killing power behind them than someone armed with a phaser

    The most adjusting I see happening to the kligat is the stealth bug being removed, and the range being adjusted.
    ".... you're gonna have a bad time."
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    I haven't seen this thing miss a target yet, so I'm not sure about that. But it's simply not true that it's the only thing that can miss, if it does this sometimes.

    You're not left wide open as it can be used almost from sniper-ranges.

    As for the shows: phasers could also instantly vaporise someone there and one shot could be lethal to Andorians for example. This is, in the end, a game and adjustments will have to be made therefore.

    I do agree that it has a longer cooldown compared to weapons fire, but like I said: it has a comparable cooldown when we look at other kit modules that are way less impressive and that don't have all these added benefits, or that require sacrifices to be made when you want to use it (I'm thinking about chroniton mines or grenades, to give just two examples).
    Adding up all these benefits, I don't see how one could possibly argue that this thing is no OP. It literally outperforms everything else and has no drawbacks (and that it didn't have any in the shows, is, again, not an argument when discussing the game where balance of some form is needed for ALL content).
  • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    And might I add that Motion Accelerator also boosts the kliggy by 60% +dmg or so.

    I love it actually - I love it too much.

  • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    tremere12 wrote: »
    The Kligat Kit module deals about 400+ damage on mk 14 (and -way- more when fully buffed on a tac), has a very low cooldown, 100% shield penetration, ALWAYS crits.... and last but not least, can be activated during stealth, and doesn't break it. Totally broken in PVP.

    Seriously? Tone it down a bit?

    Working as intended, in fact your post shows it's also achieving secondary goals by further unbalancing an already tippy situation wrt PvP, as well as adding in a new "Must Have" FOR ground PvE players. The use from Stealth is not a bug, it's an intent-to further devalue non-Tactical characters in ground operations (Tacs get stealth module, everyone else has to repeat the 2800 for shrouds, or buy some lobi/lockbox item).

    The "Dumbing down" mentioned by Risian is working as intended. The sole and only career that matters to the developers is Tactical, and the sole and only game mode that matters (or that they want anyone to play) is PvE, and they abandoned balancing efforts about two years ago in any way, shape or form for space, did you really think they wouldn't play true to type in Ground??

    As cynical as this sounds, It's not far from the truth.
  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    tremere12 wrote: »
    And might I add that Motion Accelerator also boosts the kliggy by 60% +dmg or so.

    I love it actually - I love it too much.
    + Phys dmg boosts increase the kliggy damage?
  • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    redvenge wrote: »
    tremere12 wrote: »
    And might I add that Motion Accelerator also boosts the kliggy by 60% +dmg or so.

    I love it actually - I love it too much.
    + Phys dmg boosts increase the kliggy damage?

    The kliggy does physical damage, so yes. (unless the tooltip says "melee only" I think)
  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    I compared Lunge and the Kliggy in some quick PVE tests. They both have identical cooldowns and ignore shields. Lunge has higher damage, is an Exploit attack and benefits from CrtX Melee DOFFs. The Kliggy auto-crits and has a slightly longer "engagement" range. For me, they performed about the same, since I go for +CrtX and +Expose Chance gear/traits on my melee Tac. With kit space being a premium, I'm going to stick with Lunge. The Kliggy is certainly potent, but for me, Lunge is the better choice.

    Oddly enough, Lunge has also been a past complaint in PvP.
  • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    redvenge wrote: »
    I compared Lunge and the Kliggy in some quick PVE tests. They both have identical cooldowns and ignore shields. Lunge has higher damage, is an Exploit attack and benefits from CrtX Melee DOFFs. The Kliggy auto-crits and has a slightly longer "engagement" range. For me, they performed about the same, since I go for +CrtX and +Expose Chance gear/traits on my melee Tac. With kit space being a premium, I'm going to stick with Lunge. The Kliggy is certainly potent, but for me, Lunge is the better choice.

    Oddly enough, Lunge has also been a past complaint in PvP.

    Lunge doesn't bypass shields by 100% (last I checked), can more easily be interrupted, doesn't always crit, has only half the range, is more "situational", has a potentially longer casting time (because you're running in the process) and imho requires some kind of expose to trigger its exploit damage based effectiveness (as you've outlined). Although those melee doffs are nice, they may not be worth sacrifising for the escort doffs (but that's open to debate). Not to mention lunge doesn't have that absurd stealth bug on it (which is my only steadfast problem with the klig)

    If you're a cat, you get pounce, which is, although, a poor man's lunge, is almost like a 6th kit module that can work as a bonus exploit attack. Although I'm aware the melee doffs don't work with pounce, most other traits and buffs do, and you get to keep the escort doffs in the mix. Running the kliggy + pounce (motion acc. buffs both) + a weapon that has expose chance (i.e pulsewave) on the alt-fire is the way to go... for me at least.

    Because of Kliggy's infallible crit chance/shield-pen, running the devious 2-piece nakuhl (wpn+shield) and the fleet recoil armor (both combined for a total +110% critd) still makes it more ludicrous.

    Still, looking at it, lunge is definitely underrated, but Sir Kligalot is not quite convinced to convert.
    Post edited by tremere12 on
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    Also, Lunge has a drawback since you have to place yourself within enemy lines which is potentially quite a dangerous thing to do. So its high damage it somewhat justified.

    And as noted, it doesn't always crit. Further, after they removed the expose component from Target Optics (and also Tricorder scan btw), expose-exploit builds have already suffered a bit. Lunge is fine as it is, I'd say. There are clearly pros and cons to its use, as it should be.
  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    tremere12 wrote: »
    If you're a cat, you get pounce, which is, although, a poor man's lunge, is almost like a 6th kit module that can work as a bonus exploit attack. Although I'm aware the melee doffs don't work with pounce, most other traits and buffs do, and you get to keep the escort doffs in the mix. Running the kliggy + pounce + a weapon that has expose chance (i.e pulsewave) on the alt-fire is the way to go... for me at least.
    I have both Lunge and Pounce. As a melee build, the "faux" speed boost from Lunge/Pounce lets me close in fast and unleash Sweeping Strikes (which is AoE and does stupid amounts of damage and has a chance to Expose). Lunge does 4x more damage than Pounce.

    The biggest drawback to this style of play is the terrible response times for melee attacks. I had hoped they would have improved with the changes made to consoles. Nothing makes combat more exciting than when you are fighting the game controls as much as your on-screen opponents.

    I think the Kliggy really shines in a more hybrid melee/ranged build like yours. Which is the better build for PvP anyway.
  • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    Lunge would indeed be better for a pure melee build I should think.

    In conclusion: all I really want is the kliggy to break the stealth when activated, so that, at the very least, the enemy player knows where the heck that shuriken... em... kliggy is coming from.

  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    I got the Kligat because of how funny that episode it is from was.

    I don't PVP on the ground. I don't use stealth. I do like throwing the Kligat. It's well designed in terms of flavor/theme.

    Please leave it be.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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