Star Trek admitted its mistakes about the economy in DS9 when they had the episode about the Great Material Continuum and established Ferengi-style trade economics as superior leading to better outcomes.
It is enshrined in the canon.
you mean dog-eat-dog, every man for himself, swindle or be swindled way of thinking?
Actually it was Nog centric and ended up being much more positive about how economics can work.
As a side note. How does the post picture function? Do I need a URL to put in there or drag and drop from my computer?
When you got a bunch of Rothschild and big oil wannabes out there, looking to get rich, and getting kicks from **** over as many people as possible, I don't see it as good.
I'll take whatever the Federation has anything over Ferengi-nomics.
That episode had Chief O'Brian stuck where he was going to get reamed by Sisko for failing to have parts he needed. And nothing O'Brian could do would save him. Federation economics.
Nog borrows Sisko's desk, Martok's blood wine, and a few other things. It looks terrible but he asks O'Brian to have a little faith. In the end Sisko's desk is back, Martok has better bloodwine, and they have the parts they need. By applying Ferengi philosophy to a Federation problem. I believe the message was that in moderation the process can work. Done poorly and you have what the rest of the Ferengi became.
(I meant it when I was asking for help.)
But then again, the Klingon could have just replicated the blood wine. Ferenginomics sorta falls apart with the advent of replicators.
You don't replicate bloodwine you honorless federation dog .
In all seriousness, I know the 'official' story is always something like "No self-respecting Klingon would ever drink replicated bloodwine!" (In order to justify the Ferenginomics) Why, I don't mean to be a joykill, but in 'reality' replicated stuff is not inferior to... anything! Replicated Raktajino, clothes, building components for your ship, they're all 100% good (probably slightly superior even, as all natural impurities can be filtered out). Like smokebailey said, with replicators, regular scarcity based economics is simply a thing of the past. The *only* place where scarcity might still play a factor, then, is where you need the raw materials/energy for the replicators themselves.
If you space invested the 750m then before you know it you'd have a lot more space money. Eventually you'd have enough that you didnt need to scrounge for space money when they came out with something you wanted.
But if instead you blow all your capital you start out broke again and have to climb the whole mountain each time, not just take the last couple steps.
Undoubtedly true . But I seem to have a very poor set of lobes for what is a good investment, and a habit of blowing EC on more blowy up stuff. This is why (a) most of my alts are Klingons and (b) my Ferengi alt is written as inept (he captains an armed courier as he's decent at tactics and administration, but poor at dealmaking).
Star Trek admitted its mistakes about the economy in DS9 when they had the episode about the Great Material Continuum and established Ferengi-style trade economics as superior leading to better outcomes.
It is enshrined in the canon.
you mean dog-eat-dog, every man for himself, swindle or be swindled way of thinking?
Actually it was Nog centric and ended up being much more positive about how economics can work.
As a side note. How does the post picture function? Do I need a URL to put in there or drag and drop from my computer?
When you got a bunch of Rothschild and big oil wannabes out there, looking to get rich, and getting kicks from **** over as many people as possible, I don't see it as good.
I'll take whatever the Federation has anything over Ferengi-nomics.
That episode had Chief O'Brian stuck where he was going to get reamed by Sisko for failing to have parts he needed. And nothing O'Brian could do would save him. Federation economics.
Nog borrows Sisko's desk, Martok's blood wine, and a few other things. It looks terrible but he asks O'Brian to have a little faith. In the end Sisko's desk is back, Martok has better bloodwine, and they have the parts they need. By applying Ferengi philosophy to a Federation problem. I believe the message was that in moderation the process can work. Done poorly and you have what the rest of the Ferengi became.
(I meant it when I was asking for help.)
But then again, the Klingon could have just replicated the blood wine. Ferenginomics sorta falls apart with the advent of replicators.
You don't replicate bloodwine you honorless federation dog .
In all seriousness, I know the 'official' story is always something like "No self-respecting Klingon would ever drink replicated bloodwine!" (In order to justify the Ferenginomics) Why, I don't mean to be a joykill, but in 'reality' replicated stuff is not inferior to... anything! Replicated Raktajino, clothes, building components for your ship, they're all 100% good (probably slightly superior even, as all natural impurities can be filtered out). Like smokebailey said, with replicators, regular scarcity based economics is simply a thing of the past. The *only* place where scarcity might still play a factor, then, is where you need the raw materials/energy for the replicators themselves.
actually replicated matter tends to have single bit errors that mostly doesn't matter but is why every chef in star trek doesn't use replicated ingredients. basically you could get terrible bloodwine with little bit of almost bloodwine or get real bloodwine which has a pretty good chance of being at least somewhat better.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Star Trek admitted its mistakes about the economy in DS9 when they had the episode about the Great Material Continuum and established Ferengi-style trade economics as superior leading to better outcomes.
It is enshrined in the canon.
you mean dog-eat-dog, every man for himself, swindle or be swindled way of thinking?
Actually it was Nog centric and ended up being much more positive about how economics can work.
As a side note. How does the post picture function? Do I need a URL to put in there or drag and drop from my computer?
When you got a bunch of Rothschild and big oil wannabes out there, looking to get rich, and getting kicks from **** over as many people as possible, I don't see it as good.
I'll take whatever the Federation has anything over Ferengi-nomics.
That episode had Chief O'Brian stuck where he was going to get reamed by Sisko for failing to have parts he needed. And nothing O'Brian could do would save him. Federation economics.
Nog borrows Sisko's desk, Martok's blood wine, and a few other things. It looks terrible but he asks O'Brian to have a little faith. In the end Sisko's desk is back, Martok has better bloodwine, and they have the parts they need. By applying Ferengi philosophy to a Federation problem. I believe the message was that in moderation the process can work. Done poorly and you have what the rest of the Ferengi became.
(I meant it when I was asking for help.)
But then again, the Klingon could have just replicated the blood wine. Ferenginomics sorta falls apart with the advent of replicators.
You don't replicate bloodwine you honorless federation dog .
In all seriousness, I know the 'official' story is always something like "No self-respecting Klingon would ever drink replicated bloodwine!" (In order to justify the Ferenginomics) Why, I don't mean to be a joykill, but in 'reality' replicated stuff is not inferior to... anything! Replicated Raktajino, clothes, building components for your ship, they're all 100% good (probably slightly superior even, as all natural impurities can be filtered out). Like smokebailey said, with replicators, regular scarcity based economics is simply a thing of the past. The *only* place where scarcity might still play a factor, then, is where you need the raw materials/energy for the replicators themselves.
actually replicated matter tends to have single bit errors that mostly doesn't matter but is why every chef in star trek doesn't use replicated ingredients. basically you could get terrible bloodwine with little bit of almost bloodwine or get real bloodwine which has a pretty good chance of being at least somewhat better.
That doesn't make any sense. Even in the early eighties they used primitive parity bits to guard against bit-errors; not much later replaced with proper CRC protection. It's all digital; the chance of replication errors (due to any alleged data corruption), especially a few centuries ahead of us, would be absolutely zero. And *should* data corruption be detected, the replication process would simply not start.
The engine room and shuttlebay from TMP cannot fit into that ship
I believe you're mistaken. I had Mr Scott's Guide to the Enterprise and it clearly shows properly scaled blueprints for where those things are in the ship. I know it's not considered canon anymore, but it does show how what we saw on screen could fit into the stated dimensions.
Do you have a scan or picture of that specific area? Because I'm struggling to see it working.
That doesn't look like a great reproduction of the original matte. It looks too short from the side. Is there top view?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
It's telling when that much detail going into a piece of Trekie community artwork, only to have someone complain about the margins, size of a random crawlspace, or some other trivial thing that has nothing to do with the piece as a whole. Galaxy Quest really nailed this neurosis, the obsessive deliberation over Trek minutiae.
See, in "The Quasar Dilemma", the Commander used the auxiliary of Deck B for Gamma Override. The thing is, online blueprints indicate Deck B is independent of the guidance matrix. Clearly this was unacceptable, the fans were owed an explanation. The Commander refused to comment.
The engine room and shuttlebay from TMP cannot fit into that ship
I believe you're mistaken. I had Mr Scott's Guide to the Enterprise and it clearly shows properly scaled blueprints for where those things are in the ship. I know it's not considered canon anymore, but it does show how what we saw on screen could fit into the stated dimensions.
Do you have a scan or picture of that specific area? Because I'm struggling to see it working.
That doesn't look like a great reproduction of the original matte. It looks too short from the side. Is there top view?
Two very important canon facts about replicators. 1 The Klingon Empire does not use them, they carry real, often live, food & drink. 2 As mentioned many times by people in TNG Federation replicators have nutritional & other safeguards pre- programmed so that replicated foods & drinks are nutritionally balanced & do not contain harmful substances (ie alcohol).
and many federation folks are also against enslaving of animals for food, as Riker mentioned in Lonely Among Us.
Two very important canon facts about replicators. 1 The Klingon Empire does not use them, they carry real, often live, food & drink. 2 As mentioned many times by people in TNG Federation replicators have nutritional & other safeguards pre- programmed so that replicated foods & drinks are nutritionally balanced & do not contain harmful substances (ie alcohol).
What I said remains true about the replicator being nothing more than a transporter with a computer that stores patterns instead of a pattern buffer. If it's been transported, it might as well have been replicated unless the pattern is somehow altered, ie by a lossy compression algorithm. And while Federation standard shipboard replicators in the time of the Galaxy class may be "nerfed" as you describe, that's not an inherent flaw in the system.
A replicator, supplied the proper pattern, can replicate virtually anything perfectly with very few exceptions. That includes alcoholic beverages, illicit drugs, even out and out poisons. The approved list of patterns on a given machine might not include any of that (limited to "healthy" options like any other military standard diet), and computer safety and security protocols might not want to let you do it if you try to supply your own pattern for replication (red-flagging certain molecules, for example), but that doesn't mean the machine can't do it and do it perfectly. The owners of the machine might not want you to, that's all. It's not an inherent limitation of the technology.
Of course, even on a machine with restrictions there's usually a way around those restrictions if you are clever and determined enough. And outside of Starfleet not everyone shares the same Starfleet mandated protocols, either, so what's available on a Federation starship and its tightly-regulated replicators is not representative of everything you can get anywhere. Again, such restrictions safety and security protocol programmed into the machine, not an inherent limitation on what the machine can do if such restrictions are removed or circumvented.
Star Trek admitted its mistakes about the economy in DS9 when they had the episode about the Great Material Continuum and established Ferengi-style trade economics as superior leading to better outcomes.
It is enshrined in the canon.
you mean dog-eat-dog, every man for himself, swindle or be swindled way of thinking?
Actually it was Nog centric and ended up being much more positive about how economics can work.
As a side note. How does the post picture function? Do I need a URL to put in there or drag and drop from my computer?
When you got a bunch of Rothschild and big oil wannabes out there, looking to get rich, and getting kicks from **** over as many people as possible, I don't see it as good.
I'll take whatever the Federation has anything over Ferengi-nomics.
That episode had Chief O'Brian stuck where he was going to get reamed by Sisko for failing to have parts he needed. And nothing O'Brian could do would save him. Federation economics.
Nog borrows Sisko's desk, Martok's blood wine, and a few other things. It looks terrible but he asks O'Brian to have a little faith. In the end Sisko's desk is back, Martok has better bloodwine, and they have the parts they need. By applying Ferengi philosophy to a Federation problem. I believe the message was that in moderation the process can work. Done poorly and you have what the rest of the Ferengi became.
(I meant it when I was asking for help.)
But then again, the Klingon could have just replicated the blood wine. Ferenginomics sorta falls apart with the advent of replicators.
You don't replicate bloodwine you honorless federation dog .
In all seriousness, I know the 'official' story is always something like "No self-respecting Klingon would ever drink replicated bloodwine!" (In order to justify the Ferenginomics) Why, I don't mean to be a joykill, but in 'reality' replicated stuff is not inferior to... anything! Replicated Raktajino, clothes, building components for your ship, they're all 100% good (probably slightly superior even, as all natural impurities can be filtered out). Like smokebailey said, with replicators, regular scarcity based economics is simply a thing of the past. The *only* place where scarcity might still play a factor, then, is where you need the raw materials/energy for the replicators themselves.
actually replicated matter tends to have single bit errors that mostly doesn't matter but is why every chef in star trek doesn't use replicated ingredients. basically you could get terrible bloodwine with little bit of almost bloodwine or get real bloodwine which has a pretty good chance of being at least somewhat better.
That doesn't make any sense. Even in the early eighties they used primitive parity bits to guard against bit-errors; not much later replaced with proper CRC protection. It's all digital; the chance of replication errors (due to any alleged data corruption), especially a few centuries ahead of us, would be absolutely zero. And *should* data corruption be detected, the replication process would simply not start.
yeah, you'll note with every version of trek data tend to get weird note how every time someone hacks the computer and takes some files. the files are just gone copying just does not exist for some reason. and the single bit error thing cames from Data's Day.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Maybe the hackers keep accidentally hitting the "cut" button instead of the "copy" one? Or maybe they want to erase the original copy for some reason and do it deliberately. Or, maybe even more likely, television writers know jack all about computers.
My money is on the latter.
And ever noticed how, to those same TV writer morons, everything is always 'downloading', even when they clearly mean 'uploading'?
Two very important canon facts about replicators. 1 The Klingon Empire does not use them, they carry real, often live, food & drink. 2 As mentioned many times by people in TNG Federation replicators have nutritional & other safeguards pre- programmed so that replicated foods & drinks are nutritionally balanced & do not contain harmful substances (ie alcohol).
What I said remains true about the replicator being nothing more than a transporter with a computer that stores patterns instead of a pattern buffer. If it's been transported, it might as well have been replicated unless the pattern is somehow altered, ie by a lossy compression algorithm. And while Federation standard shipboard replicators in the time of the Galaxy class may be "nerfed" as you describe, that's not an inherent flaw in the system.
A replicator, supplied the proper pattern, can replicate virtually anything perfectly with very few exceptions. That includes alcoholic beverages, illicit drugs, even out and out poisons. The approved list of patterns on a given machine might not include any of that (limited to "healthy" options like any other military standard diet), and computer safety and security protocols might not want to let you do it if you try to supply your own pattern for replication (red-flagging certain molecules, for example), but that doesn't mean the machine can't do it and do it perfectly. The owners of the machine might not want you to, that's all. It's not an inherent limitation of the technology.
Of course, even on a machine with restrictions there's usually a way around those restrictions if you are clever and determined enough. And outside of Starfleet not everyone shares the same Starfleet mandated protocols, either, so what's available on a Federation starship and its tightly-regulated replicators is not representative of everything you can get anywhere. Again, such restrictions safety and security protocol programmed into the machine, not an inherent limitation on what the machine can do if such restrictions are removed or circumvented.
One of the barely glossed over items on replicators is they can't make anything alive. So beer, yogurt and other consumables that contain such active cultures can't be made. Of course why something based on moving living things around can't replicate the living is not discussed. Other than medical technology would involve using your pattern to instantly repair any major damage to you. The episode where they de-aged Picard, Guinan, Ro, and Keiko, shows the transporter could vastly extend your life.
And the argument falls off when they get into duplicating Data. He is not an organic life form so he should be replicatable.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Two very important canon facts about replicators. 1 The Klingon Empire does not use them, they carry real, often live, food & drink. 2 As mentioned many times by people in TNG Federation replicators have nutritional & other safeguards pre- programmed so that replicated foods & drinks are nutritionally balanced & do not contain harmful substances (ie alcohol).
What I said remains true about the replicator being nothing more than a transporter with a computer that stores patterns instead of a pattern buffer. If it's been transported, it might as well have been replicated unless the pattern is somehow altered, ie by a lossy compression algorithm. And while Federation standard shipboard replicators in the time of the Galaxy class may be "nerfed" as you describe, that's not an inherent flaw in the system.
A replicator, supplied the proper pattern, can replicate virtually anything perfectly with very few exceptions. That includes alcoholic beverages, illicit drugs, even out and out poisons. The approved list of patterns on a given machine might not include any of that (limited to "healthy" options like any other military standard diet), and computer safety and security protocols might not want to let you do it if you try to supply your own pattern for replication (red-flagging certain molecules, for example), but that doesn't mean the machine can't do it and do it perfectly. The owners of the machine might not want you to, that's all. It's not an inherent limitation of the technology.
Of course, even on a machine with restrictions there's usually a way around those restrictions if you are clever and determined enough. And outside of Starfleet not everyone shares the same Starfleet mandated protocols, either, so what's available on a Federation starship and its tightly-regulated replicators is not representative of everything you can get anywhere. Again, such restrictions safety and security protocol programmed into the machine, not an inherent limitation on what the machine can do if such restrictions are removed or circumvented.
One of the barely glossed over items on replicators is they can't make anything alive. So beer, yogurt and other consumables that contain such active cultures can't be made. Of course why something based on moving living things around can't replicate the living is not discussed. Other than medical technology would involve using your pattern to instantly repair any major damage to you. The episode where they de-aged Picard, Guinan, Ro, and Keiko, shows the transporter could vastly extend your life.
And the argument falls off when they get into duplicating Data. He is not an organic life form so he should be replicatable.
The problem is, that a replicator is a de facto Deus Ex Machina device, so they're constantly imposing rather contrived, not-well-thought-out limitations on it. And of course they can replicate 'beer, yogurt and other consumables.' In fact, food replicators do this all the time.
It's telling when that much detail going into a piece of Trekie community artwork, only to have someone complain about the margins, size of a random crawlspace, or some other trivial thing that has nothing to do with the piece as a whole. Galaxy Quest really nailed this neurosis, the obsessive deliberation over Trek minutiae.
I know, it must be awful to care enough about something and to enjoy it enough to want to talk about it. Do you happen to have the prescribed limits or doses of level of interest we should be using?
Another with basically the same layout. The Engineering deck is along the top of the secondary hull, and the cargo area that extends forward from the shuttlebay goes almost completely beneath it. That's why the engineering section has a semicircle arch for a ceiling, because it's at the top and the curvature matches that of the hull itself. Everything else in the secondary hull fits in below it.
I stand corrected then. Strike the TMP Constitution from the list of ships who's interiors do not fit the exterior.
There's still no excuse for Voyager.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Two very important canon facts about replicators. 1 The Klingon Empire does not use them, they carry real, often live, food & drink. 2 As mentioned many times by people in TNG Federation replicators have nutritional & other safeguards pre- programmed so that replicated foods & drinks are nutritionally balanced & do not contain harmful substances (ie alcohol).
What I said remains true about the replicator being nothing more than a transporter with a computer that stores patterns instead of a pattern buffer. If it's been transported, it might as well have been replicated unless the pattern is somehow altered, ie by a lossy compression algorithm. And while Federation standard shipboard replicators in the time of the Galaxy class may be "nerfed" as you describe, that's not an inherent flaw in the system.
A replicator, supplied the proper pattern, can replicate virtually anything perfectly with very few exceptions. That includes alcoholic beverages, illicit drugs, even out and out poisons. The approved list of patterns on a given machine might not include any of that (limited to "healthy" options like any other military standard diet), and computer safety and security protocols might not want to let you do it if you try to supply your own pattern for replication (red-flagging certain molecules, for example), but that doesn't mean the machine can't do it and do it perfectly. The owners of the machine might not want you to, that's all. It's not an inherent limitation of the technology.
Of course, even on a machine with restrictions there's usually a way around those restrictions if you are clever and determined enough. And outside of Starfleet not everyone shares the same Starfleet mandated protocols, either, so what's available on a Federation starship and its tightly-regulated replicators is not representative of everything you can get anywhere. Again, such restrictions safety and security protocol programmed into the machine, not an inherent limitation on what the machine can do if such restrictions are removed or circumvented.
One of the barely glossed over items on replicators is they can't make anything alive. So beer, yogurt and other consumables that contain such active cultures can't be made. Of course why something based on moving living things around can't replicate the living is not discussed. Other than medical technology would involve using your pattern to instantly repair any major damage to you. The episode where they de-aged Picard, Guinan, Ro, and Keiko, shows the transporter could vastly extend your life.
And the argument falls off when they get into duplicating Data. He is not an organic life form so he should be replicatable.
Correct, replicators cannot make life from unlife. If what goes in the transporter is alive, it comes out alive if the pattern is maintained as active in a buffer. If it's simply a stored pattern applied to dead matter though, what comes out is also dead. You could store a person's pattern and replicate a perfect copy but it'd be a perfect corpse, because the transporter cannot kickstart the life process. We're never told quite why, but the idea holds to common sense that you can't simply Frankenstein life from unlife. And it also avoids a lot of complications for the story, as well.
So no yogurt with live bacteria and no live gagh. Beer and wine would be fine though, since the alcohol content kills the yeast anyhow and so the result of the replication process would be chemically and structurally identical including the poor alcohol-slain corpses of the yeast. Bread would be similar because the yeast is killed during cooking, so you'd get a perfect copy of cooked bread including the baked corpses of yeast. What you could not replicate is bread dough with active yeast so it would rise properly for you to cook it yourself. Nor could you replicate the precursors to wine or beer for you to make it yourself because you couldn't get the right yeast or bacteria or whatever to ferment the stuff with. You can replicate the results of fermentation perfectly, just not the living organisms that produce those results.
If you really want your yogurt with active cultures that badly, you'd need to store those cultures in a traditional way, like in petri dishes down in climate regulated cargo boxes or something. Then you could replicate everything else and the transporter could grab the little beasties to add to the mix as it materializes. Sure that's a lot of trouble to go to, but it's better than listening to your Counselor whine and moan about how she needs her yogurt so she doesn't look all bloated in her yoga outfit for her appointment with the guru on Holodeck 4.
Which explains all the various cargo the haul around. Though I thought beer still had active culture in it which is why it can go bad if temperature changes too often. But it still doesn't explain them not replicating Data before they had his trial and saying he was a unique lifeform.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Excuse me I must have entered the wrong room, I thought I was entering the one for the T6 Temporal Light Cruiser (Constitution Class). Silly me. Excuse the intrusion.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
For homework, please write and submit an essay on "The Abiogenesis Barrier in Food, Beverage, and Product Replication" to your Engineering command officer. Please include examples of common items that contain living components (especially non-obvious ones such as microorganisms) and strategies for storing and supplying the necessary living components. Bonus points awarded if your solutions also coincidentally solve the problem of cargo area interiors too large for the starships that contain them. Failure to do so will result in demerit points on your quarterly review that could adversely affect your Starfleet career.
The Abiogenesis Barrier in Food, Beverage, and Product Replication
Probiotic Foods that replicators fail with
1. Yogurt
One of the best probiotic foods is live-cultured yogurt, especially handmade. Look for brands made from goat’s milk that have been infused with extra forms of probiotics like lactobacillus or acidophilus. Goat’s milk and cheese are particularly high in probiotics like thermophillus, bifudus, bulgaricus and acidophilus.
2. Kefir
Similar to yogurt, this fermented dairy product is a unique combination of goat’s milk and fermented kefir grains. High in lactobacilli and bifidus bacteria, kefir is also rich in antioxidants.
3. Sauerkraut
Made from fermented cabbage (and sometimes other vegetables), sauerkraut is not only extremely rich in healthy live cultures, but might also help with reducing allergy symptoms. Sauerkraut is also rich in vitamins B, A, E and C.
4. Dark Chocolate
Probiotics can be added to high-quality dark chocolate, up to four times the amount of probiotics as many forms of dairy. This is only one of the health benefits of chocolate.
5. Miso Soup
Miso is one the main-stays of traditional Japanese medicine and is commonly used in macrobiotic cooking as a digestive regulator. Made from fermented rye, beans, rice or barley, adding a tablespoon of miso to some hot water makes an excellent, quick, probiotic-rich soup, full of lactobacilli and bifidus bacteria.
Beyond its important live cultures, miso is extremely nutrient-dense and believed to help neutralize the effects of environmental pollution, alkalinize the body and stop the effects of carcinogens in the system.
6. Pickles
Believe it or not, the common green pickle is an excellent food source of probiotics.
As may become apparent from this list all of these foods the needed bacteria all cause a ‘souring’ effect. The simplest way to carry and dispense these healthy class A microorganisms is to carry canisters of the bacteria with a small amount of food for the micro organisms. The type two sealed medical storage pod would allow shuttling of the organisms to orbiting starships and the sample testing port can mate with a replicator matter processor feed. Storing these containers in the medbay bio-hazard vault would increase the use of this under utilized but standard facility while reducing the space required by the standard cargo bay. In addition this allows easier patching of the bio filters to allow the integration of live cultures where replicated dead ones would be in the recipe mix. And as a third value containment in the event of container breach.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
For homework, please write and submit an essay on "The Abiogenesis Barrier in Food, Beverage, and Product Replication" to your Engineering command officer. Please include examples of common items that contain living components (especially non-obvious ones such as microorganisms) and strategies for storing and supplying the necessary living components. Bonus points awarded if your solutions also coincidentally solve the problem of cargo area interiors too large for the starships that contain them. Failure to do so will result in demerit points on your quarterly review that could adversely affect your Starfleet career.
The Abiogenesis Barrier in Food, Beverage, and Product Replication
Probiotic Foods that replicators fail with
1. Yogurt
One of the best probiotic foods is live-cultured yogurt, especially handmade. Look for brands made from goat’s milk that have been infused with extra forms of probiotics like lactobacillus or acidophilus. Goat’s milk and cheese are particularly high in probiotics like thermophillus, bifudus, bulgaricus and acidophilus.
2. Kefir
Similar to yogurt, this fermented dairy product is a unique combination of goat’s milk and fermented kefir grains. High in lactobacilli and bifidus bacteria, kefir is also rich in antioxidants.
3. Sauerkraut
Made from fermented cabbage (and sometimes other vegetables), sauerkraut is not only extremely rich in healthy live cultures, but might also help with reducing allergy symptoms. Sauerkraut is also rich in vitamins B, A, E and C.
4. Dark Chocolate
Probiotics can be added to high-quality dark chocolate, up to four times the amount of probiotics as many forms of dairy. This is only one of the health benefits of chocolate.
5. Miso Soup
Miso is one the main-stays of traditional Japanese medicine and is commonly used in macrobiotic cooking as a digestive regulator. Made from fermented rye, beans, rice or barley, adding a tablespoon of miso to some hot water makes an excellent, quick, probiotic-rich soup, full of lactobacilli and bifidus bacteria.
Beyond its important live cultures, miso is extremely nutrient-dense and believed to help neutralize the effects of environmental pollution, alkalinize the body and stop the effects of carcinogens in the system.
6. Pickles
Believe it or not, the common green pickle is an excellent food source of probiotics.
As may become apparent from this list all of these foods the needed bacteria all cause a ‘souring’ effect. The simplest way to carry and dispense these healthy class A microorganisms is to carry canisters of the bacteria with a small amount of food for the micro organisms. The type two sealed medical storage pod would allow shuttling of the organisms to orbiting starships and the sample testing port can mate with a replicator matter processor feed. Storing these containers in the medbay bio-hazard vault would increase the use of this under utilized but standard facility while reducing the space required by the standard cargo bay. In addition this allows easier patching of the bio filters to allow the integration of live cultures where replicated dead ones would be in the recipe mix. And as a third value containment in the event of container breach.
Why not mimic the effect of probiotics with replicatable synthebiotics? [/Alternate Technobabble]
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Why not mimic the effect of probiotics with replicatable synthebiotics? [/Alternate Technobabble]
[/quote]
First synthetic biotics are not shown. A hazard lab for sick bay is. The list at the beginning of the essay? Is quoted from health benefits of probiotics in digestion. So not babble. Going by the shown facts of Chief O'Brian crawling inside the workings of a replicator and it looks more like plumbing than circuitry and the prevalent cargo bays on star ships it is reasonable that materials are sent to a replicator, then a small transporter rearranges the matter to the desired state and recipe. With that injection in mind and bearing in mind that transporters have bio-filters to remove bacteria. You have to bypass that issue. So you integrate the bio matter with the replicated matter the same way the holo-deck replicates some items and uses force fields for others. Providing nutritious food even while in deep space.
(And preserving why people like the Picard's bother to still farm. You still need raw materials.)
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Comments
In all seriousness, I know the 'official' story is always something like "No self-respecting Klingon would ever drink replicated bloodwine!" (In order to justify the Ferenginomics) Why, I don't mean to be a joykill, but in 'reality' replicated stuff is not inferior to... anything! Replicated Raktajino, clothes, building components for your ship, they're all 100% good (probably slightly superior even, as all natural impurities can be filtered out). Like smokebailey said, with replicators, regular scarcity based economics is simply a thing of the past. The *only* place where scarcity might still play a factor, then, is where you need the raw materials/energy for the replicators themselves.
Undoubtedly true
actually replicated matter tends to have single bit errors that mostly doesn't matter but is why every chef in star trek doesn't use replicated ingredients. basically you could get terrible bloodwine with little bit of almost bloodwine or get real bloodwine which has a pretty good chance of being at least somewhat better.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
That doesn't make any sense.
That doesn't look like a great reproduction of the original matte. It looks too short from the side. Is there top view?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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See, in "The Quasar Dilemma", the Commander used the auxiliary of Deck B for Gamma Override. The thing is, online blueprints indicate Deck B is independent of the guidance matrix. Clearly this was unacceptable, the fans were owed an explanation. The Commander refused to comment.
Heh.
and many federation folks are also against enslaving of animals for food, as Riker mentioned in Lonely Among Us.
yeah, you'll note with every version of trek data tend to get weird note how every time someone hacks the computer and takes some files. the files are just gone copying just does not exist for some reason. and the single bit error thing cames from Data's Day.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
My money is on the latter.
And ever noticed how, to those same TV writer morons, everything is always 'downloading', even when they clearly mean 'uploading'?
One of the barely glossed over items on replicators is they can't make anything alive. So beer, yogurt and other consumables that contain such active cultures can't be made. Of course why something based on moving living things around can't replicate the living is not discussed. Other than medical technology would involve using your pattern to instantly repair any major damage to you. The episode where they de-aged Picard, Guinan, Ro, and Keiko, shows the transporter could vastly extend your life.
And the argument falls off when they get into duplicating Data. He is not an organic life form so he should be replicatable.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
The problem is, that a replicator is a de facto Deus Ex Machina device, so they're constantly imposing rather contrived, not-well-thought-out limitations on it. And of course they can replicate 'beer, yogurt and other consumables.' In fact, food replicators do this all the time.
I know, it must be awful to care enough about something and to enjoy it enough to want to talk about it. Do you happen to have the prescribed limits or doses of level of interest we should be using?
I stand corrected then. Strike the TMP Constitution from the list of ships who's interiors do not fit the exterior.
There's still no excuse for Voyager.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Which explains all the various cargo the haul around. Though I thought beer still had active culture in it which is why it can go bad if temperature changes too often. But it still doesn't explain them not replicating Data before they had his trial and saying he was a unique lifeform.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
The Abiogenesis Barrier in Food, Beverage, and Product Replication
Probiotic Foods that replicators fail with
1. Yogurt
One of the best probiotic foods is live-cultured yogurt, especially handmade. Look for brands made from goat’s milk that have been infused with extra forms of probiotics like lactobacillus or acidophilus. Goat’s milk and cheese are particularly high in probiotics like thermophillus, bifudus, bulgaricus and acidophilus.
2. Kefir
Similar to yogurt, this fermented dairy product is a unique combination of goat’s milk and fermented kefir grains. High in lactobacilli and bifidus bacteria, kefir is also rich in antioxidants.
3. Sauerkraut
Made from fermented cabbage (and sometimes other vegetables), sauerkraut is not only extremely rich in healthy live cultures, but might also help with reducing allergy symptoms. Sauerkraut is also rich in vitamins B, A, E and C.
4. Dark Chocolate
Probiotics can be added to high-quality dark chocolate, up to four times the amount of probiotics as many forms of dairy. This is only one of the health benefits of chocolate.
5. Miso Soup
Miso is one the main-stays of traditional Japanese medicine and is commonly used in macrobiotic cooking as a digestive regulator. Made from fermented rye, beans, rice or barley, adding a tablespoon of miso to some hot water makes an excellent, quick, probiotic-rich soup, full of lactobacilli and bifidus bacteria.
Beyond its important live cultures, miso is extremely nutrient-dense and believed to help neutralize the effects of environmental pollution, alkalinize the body and stop the effects of carcinogens in the system.
6. Pickles
Believe it or not, the common green pickle is an excellent food source of probiotics.
As may become apparent from this list all of these foods the needed bacteria all cause a ‘souring’ effect. The simplest way to carry and dispense these healthy class A microorganisms is to carry canisters of the bacteria with a small amount of food for the micro organisms. The type two sealed medical storage pod would allow shuttling of the organisms to orbiting starships and the sample testing port can mate with a replicator matter processor feed. Storing these containers in the medbay bio-hazard vault would increase the use of this under utilized but standard facility while reducing the space required by the standard cargo bay. In addition this allows easier patching of the bio filters to allow the integration of live cultures where replicated dead ones would be in the recipe mix. And as a third value containment in the event of container breach.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Why not mimic the effect of probiotics with replicatable synthebiotics? [/Alternate Technobabble]
Why not mimic the effect of probiotics with replicatable synthebiotics? [/Alternate Technobabble]
[/quote]
First synthetic biotics are not shown. A hazard lab for sick bay is. The list at the beginning of the essay? Is quoted from health benefits of probiotics in digestion. So not babble. Going by the shown facts of Chief O'Brian crawling inside the workings of a replicator and it looks more like plumbing than circuitry and the prevalent cargo bays on star ships it is reasonable that materials are sent to a replicator, then a small transporter rearranges the matter to the desired state and recipe. With that injection in mind and bearing in mind that transporters have bio-filters to remove bacteria. You have to bypass that issue. So you integrate the bio matter with the replicated matter the same way the holo-deck replicates some items and uses force fields for others. Providing nutritious food even while in deep space.
(And preserving why people like the Picard's bother to still farm. You still need raw materials.)
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.