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A way for Cryptic to monetarize player wishes!

As it just occured to me in another thread, I thought I'd put it in here for discussion.

Imagine Cryptic would set up a server-wide system with project proposals for the development team. Players could then vote with zen what should have highest priority. It would be a "set goal" like system like a fleet project. Once you collect the (for example) 10,000,000 zen (exact number dependent on the estimated implementation effort required for the project ) to make a project happen, the development team pledges to do it (using FIFO to prioritize the projects among each other - first complete, first served). There could be a queue display of already completed projects, possibly with a status bar for its completion.

At any given time, there would be at least three project proposal in the queue, selected by the devs (who will of course see if there are any proposals going around in the community that are likely to raise a lot of zen, in addition to what they come up with themselves).

What do you guys think about this?



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Comments

  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    Well... Eventually, we probably have to pay zen to post in the forums, so they might as well go for this as well.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 6,376 Arc User
    I wouldn't. What Zen I get is either turned into dil or I buy keys and turn that into EC.

    zx2t8tuj4i10.png
    Thank you for the Typhoon!
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,409 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    As it just occured to me in another thread, I thought I'd put it in here for discussion.

    Imagine Cryptic would set up a server-wide system with project proposals for the development team. Players could then vote with zen what should have highest priority. It would be a "set goal" like system like a fleet project. Once you collect the (for example) 10,000,000 zen (exact number dependent on the estimated implementation effort required for the project ) to make a project happen, the development team pledges to do it (using FIFO to prioritize the projects among each other - first complete, first served). There could be a queue display of already completed projects, possibly with a status bar for its completion.

    At any given time, there would be at least three project proposal in the queue, selected by the devs (who will of course see if there are any proposals going around in the community that are likely to raise a lot of zen, in addition to what they come up with themselves).

    What do you guys think about this?


    So, let me get this straight.

    You're suggesting players pour their zen into something that may never happen due to lack of support without the possibility to refund them?

    Also what kind of projects?
    Ships, missions, battlezones, bug fixes, costumes, Dev Boffs, something else?
    #TASforSTO
    Iconian_Trio_sign.jpg?raw=1
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    No, that doesn't make any sense. It would just be a source of player outrage and more stupid conspiracy theories.

    Player proposals are mostly just thinly veiled begging anyway.
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  • edited December 2016
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  • dalolorndalolorn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    [...]
    So, let me get this straight.

    You're suggesting players pour their zen into something that may never happen due to lack of support without the possibility to refund them?

    Hm, a refund option may seem like a good idea, indeed.

    Make it so people can pull their Zen back out at any time if they change their minds - there's no need for it to be removed from existence until the project's requirements are actually met.

    Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.p3OEBPD6HU3QI.jpg
  • wendysue53wendysue53 Member Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    Shouldn't tell you this, but...

    Developers, creators, and writers don't want 4 million things to do on a list from people who don't have a clues about the direction a game is going. It's much like when an author sits down to do a signing and someone asks them to read their manuscript. Uh - no. They already have an endless list of stuff to do that they'll never get to finish...

    I used to like this idea, as I've heard it before working on some other games.

    That was before one guy I worked with made the mistake of trying to open that flood gate. It's too big a problem for a full release and only works for pre-release testing and development with a small 20 - 100 person test team. Anything more than that and the group will never even get to finish READING the suggestions, whether or not the people had to pay to give them. It's too much work going in the wrong direction.

    Nice idea. but unless you have a easy 5 second app for this, it can't happen. Another one of those more work and cost than it's worth type of things.
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,409 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    [...]
    So, let me get this straight.

    You're suggesting players pour their zen into something that may never happen due to lack of support without the possibility to refund them?

    Hm, a refund option may seem like a good idea, indeed.
    Also what kind of projects?
    Ships, missions, battlezones, bug fixes, costumes, Dev Boffs, something else?

    I would assume all kinds of things that require dev workforce. New features (like the often-requested "NPC's should address me as my chosen Title instead of the level-associated rank", "adding a true third dimension to space flight", etc.), new systems, a level increase, whatever. All would be subject to player voting that way - bad ideas would be shot down by lack of participation, good ideas would be promoted.
    A refund option would be NECESSARY. If not, not only fewer people would participate but they wouldn't take any risk, basically shooting down many ideas because they'd play safe.

    And it wouldn't be good ideas, it'd be practical ideas that would be promoted.

    Also, what would be the rewards for giving certain amounts of money?
    Because, yeah, you can't be a game developer aiming to be taken seriously and not give rewards in addition to what the players are pledging to, unless you want to have people point out the many problems, both merely perceived and very real, with that.

    Also, what about the players who are subbed? What do they get with that as it can be considered $15 pledged, but to what? Would the devs completely stop subscriptions in favor of that?

    Also, "all kinds of things that require dev workforce"? And what happens when for example, someone pledges $25 to have a $30 ship developed? Do they get the ship? Do they get a discount? A fixed discount or proportional to their pledge? Do they pay the ship whole a second time? What about the generous player that pledges $100? Do they get something or just a pat on the back?

    Also, if they start having missions as a goal? Doesn't this count as no longer being a F2P game? What happens to the players who haven't pledged? To continue playing the storyline, they have to pay? Every time for every mission? What if they're subbed, again?


    See where I'm going?

    #TASforSTO
    Iconian_Trio_sign.jpg?raw=1
  • wendysue53wendysue53 Member Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    not sure if anything that requires 'pledging money' would be a good idea for Cryptic as that leads straight into Crowd-funding and that whole legal issue and how it conflicts with the business side of the Star Trek Franchise.
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  • jbmonroejbmonroe Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    Sorry, OP, I have to side with Warpangel on this one. As a software architect and Agile product owner, I can tell you from personal experience that allowing even a single customer to indulge in "wouldn't it be cool if?" leads to the eventual death of a product as a product. It becomes a custom solution from that point forward, which doesn't do worthwhile service to all the customers that didn't "play the game," but who are still stakeholders in the development of the product.

    In addition to the begging, conspiracy theories, and player outrage Warpangel predicts, there would also be cartels of players funding solutions designed to benefit the cartels--or, having failed to get their "must have" feature into the game, whining on the forums and threatening boycotts (and all sorts of other juvenile activities). (Have we not all heard the conspiracy theory that goes "Dental controls the Exchange?") The general tone of discourse on the forums rarely rises above "grade 8 schoolyard," so what would be the point, exactly, of providing a catalyst for an even lower intellectual tone?

    In the end it doesn't matter whether the concept funding is dilithium, Zen, or green jelly beans--it's an idea with more negative consequences than positive, an opinion based on my 35 years of experience in software development.
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,557 Arc User
    This sounds like Kickstarter for an already existing product. IMO, such a move shows desperation or greed depending on their current financial situation.
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  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,602 Arc User
    It's a well known fact that once 'customers' get a say in something, they all want more, more, more. It's blindly evident in this game. Despite it being free, people do complain about getting free items, not getting enough free items, not getting the free item they want, not getting an item that someone else got for free.....get the idea?

    Trying to monetize 'people's wishes' will most certainly encourage more forum rage when people don't get what they ask for 'because they donated'.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    No, that doesn't make any sense. It would just be a source of player outrage and more stupid conspiracy theories.

    Player proposals are mostly just thinly veiled begging anyway.

    Warpangel, is there any thread on these forums where your answer is not "no"? If so, I'd really like to read it.
    Your idea is a horrible idea and warpangel's response is absolutely spot on.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    Umm...no. As somebody who has worked as a dev in the past, this is a TERRIBLE idea. You users for the most part are compklete morons who have no idea how to even USE your product...much less what is required to program in their extra "features"...most of which would just complicate thing for the other 99% of your users. You do not know better than the leads and devs of an MMO that has been going on for 6+ years. Let them do their FRAKING JOB.

    Mostly this. It's good for customers to give feedback, but creators need to be given a certain degree of freedom to create their own thing regardless of said feedback.
    ExtxpTp.jpg
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,602 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    leemwatson wrote: »
    It's a well known fact that once 'customers' get a say in something, they all want more, more, more. It's blindly evident in this game. Despite it being free, people do complain about getting free items, not getting enough free items, not getting the free item they want, not getting an item that someone else got for free.....get the idea?

    Trying to monetize 'people's wishes' will most certainly encourage more forum rage when people don't get what they ask for 'because they donated'.

    Additional: If I'm going to give Cryptic any money, it will be for a ship I desire, which I deem is a payment for the continuation of the game and the good work the Dev's do in running this F2P. The only time Cryptic should get money upfront, is from either CBS wanting to push a storyline or other content, or from their budget for the year, which they use to, again develop content.

    And lastly, players can ask for all they want, but the only people that matter in regards to approving content are CBS and Cryptic. It is not for the players to decide, unless an OFFICIAL poll or otherwise is put to the community. This is why I hate player-generated polls 'demanding' things from the game. They are always over-indulgent.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,557 Arc User
    This might have already happened if not in STO, then some other MMO. If some extremely wealthy Star Trek fan offers $1,000,000 to Cryptic to introduce one of their reasonable wishes into the game, then it is extremely doubtful that Cryptic would say no.
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    I am against this idea for reasons that hare already been mentioned by others.

    I just want to point out one quick thing..
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Once you collect the (for example) 10,000,000 zen (exact number dependent on the estimated implementation effort required for the project ) to make a project happen

    10 Million Zen is probably more Zen that this game has ever generated total since it's very beginning. If you were to buy 10M Zen with real money it would cost you 100 Million US Dollars.

    That's setting the bar a little high isn't it?
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    10 Million Zen is probably more Zen that this game has ever generated total since it's very beginning. If you were to buy 10M Zen with real money it would cost you 100 Million US Dollars.

    That's setting the bar a little high isn't it?
    You've fubared your math. That's 100,000 dollars.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    10 Million Zen is probably more Zen that this game has ever generated total since it's very beginning. If you were to buy 10M Zen with real money it would cost you 100 Million US Dollars.

    That's setting the bar a little high isn't it?
    You've fubared your math. That's 100,000 dollars.

    Haha.. you're right... I messed that up good. I knew I shouldn't have let my brother spike the egg nog!

    Anyway, I still just don't like the concept of using a cash based currency to pay developers for improvements to the game. I feel it potentially opens the door to problems and potential exploits where only the most wealthy of players get what they want. It doesn't have to be real money either, people who are sitting on tons of farmed Dilithium or Zen could have their run of things under this system.

    Overall, I admire the spirit of the idea, I believe it was suggested with the best of intent.. but I just don't see it as a good idea. I'm not trying to be overly negative, I just feel it's not a viable idea.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • wendysue53wendysue53 Member Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    Not really, we could all (for example) pour money on Cryptic asking for the Franz Joseph ship designs & it would make no difference :( there are a lot more factors than just a fan and some amount of money.

    @azrael605 is right. It's often a licensing restriction. They can't really accept funds from just anyone.
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  • cidjackcidjack Member Posts: 2,017 Arc User
    Hell has totally frozen over, reading this thread, I had the exact same reaction as @coldnapalm , and I never agree with coldnapalm.

    Do you all just go to Walmart, grab a manager and start telling him/her how to stock the shelves?

    I am going back into the game and mess with the exchan---- I mean go pew pew.
    Armada: Multiplying fleet projects in need of dilithium by 13."
    95bced8038c91ec6f880d510e6fd302f366a776c4c5761e5f7931d491667a45e.jpgvia Imgflip Meme Generator
  • ryghanryghan Member Posts: 138 Arc User
    Zen sink?
    Hrmmm..maybe if they wanted people to buy more Zen they could---oh I don't know, offer stuff people *WANT* to buy?
    Possibly lower some of the prices of the much more expensive things so that they sell *more* of them?

    I just don't see this being workable...for many reasons (most cited above; copy rights, "red tape" from other factors, and more).
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