rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 59,174Community Moderator
I'd still think that things involving events before Nero's incursion would be shared between the Prime and Kelvin timelines, so the disappearance of the Franklin would still work.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
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I'd still think that things involving events before Nero's incursion would be shared between the Prime and Kelvin timelines, so the disappearance of the Franklin would still work.
Why? Given the countless time travel stories in the prime universe there is no way of knowing how things evolved in the Kelvin timeline as a result of Nero’s interaction. Did they do the same amount of time travels there? Had they none? Did they do them with the same results or where they different? There is no way of knowing.
Whatever.
I would not mind if STO takes elements from Beyond and puts them in context of the main timeline. Could imagine some interesting stories there. The aliens alone would make a nice addition to the game. They are completely free to do whatever they like and without feeling bad about there.
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I'd still think that things involving events before Nero's incursion would be shared between the Prime and Kelvin timelines, so the disappearance of the Franklin would still work.
And you'd be correct in terms of how the films present it. Pegg is only over complication things by coming up with that ripples thing that's never happened in Star Trek before.
The timeline changes at the point of Nero's attack on the Kelvin, hence the name Kelvin Timeline. As there's nothing in the past of the films (i.e. before the incursion) that contradicts anything prior, Pegg's statement is also pointless.
The Franklin still disappeared in identical curcumstances in the Prime Timeline.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I'd wish Cryptic stays with the Lukari for a while and continues an original storyline instead of once again cannibalizing canon events. STO is at a point where repeated ENT, TOS or TNG anecdotes become pointless, they should just shape their own universe now.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I'd wish Cryptic stays with the Lukari for a while and continues an original storyline instead of once again cannibalizing canon events. STO is at a point where repeated ENT, TOS or TNG anecdotes become pointless, they should just shape their own universe now.
+1
Hopefully the lukari won't suffer the same fate as the deferi and will fade into oblivion once the anniversary is over. Wouldn't be the first time someone gets a huge build up only to be forgotten again.
+1
Hopefully the lukari won't suffer the same fate as the deferi and will fade into oblivion once the anniversary is over. Wouldn't be the first time someone gets a huge build up only to be forgotten again.
Absolutely. The Deferi had a lore build up to become the half-faction, allied with red and blue and it would have made sense. Instead we got romulans, which made no sense, and Defera was completely abandoned. What followed were years of cannibalized show plots and lots and lots of expensive voice actors in lieu of original plots. 25th Anniversary or A Final Unity are great games because they created their own worlds that felt authentic in the Star Trek universe. STOs plots are supposed to take place in the 25th century but nonsensically keep on referencing events hundreds of years or at least decades ago. It can work, once in a while for a special event, but not constantly. Our galactic god character always walks in the shadows of the Enterprise crew.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I think such a storyline a completely doable given how Beyond is the most Star Trek of the Abrams movies. Some tweaks here and there to make it different enough to dodge lawsuits and we're golden. I mean, it's how the first Abrams movie dodged lawsuits from Disney.
I'd still think that things involving events before Nero's incursion would be shared between the Prime and Kelvin timelines, so the disappearance of the Franklin would still work.
And you'd be correct in terms of how the films present it. Pegg is only over complication things by coming up with that ripples thing that's never happened in Star Trek before.
The timeline changes at the point of Nero's attack on the Kelvin, hence the name Kelvin Timeline. As there's nothing in the past of the films (i.e. before the incursion) that contradicts anything prior, Pegg's statement is also pointless.
The Franklin still disappeared in identical curcumstances in the Prime Timeline.
Actually, Pegg, @somtaawkhar and @peterconnorfirst are right. (Also, the 'never happened in Star Trek before' remark quickly falls apart if we're discussing STO; the entire Temporal Cold War is itself a 'ripple', or have you conveniently forgotten various FEs indicating this?)
Let's follow a possible instance of the effect, shall we?
CANON: Nero's arrival is believed by various posters (and outright stated in STO) to have had an accelerative influence on technological development. It has also effected changes to the galactic landscape, physically and possibly politically.
Theory: The alterations eventually prevent the battle of Narendra III, or alter its outcome in such a manner that either the alternate or canonical timelines of Yesterday's Enterprise are completely void. (An alternative approach might be to prevent the encounter with Armus or whatever he was called, thus saving Tasha Yar's life.)
Extrapolation: YE-Yar never goes back to Narendra with the Ent-C. She is never captured by Romulans, and does not give birth to Sela.
Expansion: Sela does not exist, and cannot participate in the predestination paradox responsible for the Iconian War. Aside from affecting the galactic timeline as far back as 200 thousand years, thus confirming Pegg's theorized ripple effect, it also affects said timeline as far forward as... who knows? (This may in turn cause further backward ripples, because the bulk of controlled time travel apparently occurs after the Iconian War.)
Side-effects: The Krenim weapon is never fired. The Tuterians are not assimilated, or at least have no reason to seek retribution. Noye and the Sphere Builders never participate in the Temporal Cold War. Galorndon Core remains a lush, fertile world. The Xindi arc of Enterprise never takes place. In the long run, it is theoretically even possible that the Na'kuhl-Tholian side of the TCW never occurs, causing the complete termination of ENT's TCW arc, Xindi and non-Xindi. A few chunks of post-ENT canon are also outright voided by this, like the loss of the Constitution-class Defiant. Arguably, the restoration of Klingon cranial ridges is also endangered or lost according to STO canon, but they clearly have those anyway so whatever.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
I'd still think that things involving events before Nero's incursion would be shared between the Prime and Kelvin timelines, so the disappearance of the Franklin would still work.
And you'd be correct in terms of how the films present it. Pegg is only over complication things by coming up with that ripples thing that's never happened in Star Trek before.
The timeline changes at the point of Nero's attack on the Kelvin, hence the name Kelvin Timeline. As there's nothing in the past of the films (i.e. before the incursion) that contradicts anything prior, Pegg's statement is also pointless.
The Franklin still disappeared in identical curcumstances in the Prime Timeline.
Actually, Pegg, @somtaawkhar and @peterconnorfirst are right. (Also, the 'never happened in Star Trek before' remark quickly falls apart if we're discussing STO; the entire Temporal Cold War is itself a 'ripple', or have you conveniently forgotten various FEs indicating this?)
Let's follow a possible instance of the effect, shall we?
CANON: Nero's arrival is believed by various posters (and outright stated in STO) to have had an accelerative influence on technological development. It has also effected changes to the galactic landscape, physically and possibly politically.
Theory: The alterations eventually prevent the battle of Narendra III, or alter its outcome in such a manner that either the alternate or canonical timelines of Yesterday's Enterprise are completely void. (An alternative approach might be to prevent the encounter with Armus or whatever he was called, thus saving Tasha Yar's life.)
Extrapolation: YE-Yar never goes back to Narendra with the Ent-C. She is never captured by Romulans, and does not give birth to Sela.
Expansion: Sela does not exist, and cannot participate in the predestination paradox responsible for the Iconian War. Aside from affecting the galactic timeline as far back as 200 thousand years, thus confirming Pegg's theorized ripple effect, it also affects said timeline as far forward as... who knows? (This may in turn cause further backward ripples, because the bulk of controlled time travel apparently occurs after the Iconian War.)
Side-effects: The Krenim weapon is never fired. The Tuterians are not assimilated, or at least have no reason to seek retribution. Noye and the Sphere Builders never participate in the Temporal Cold War. Galorndon Core remains a lush, fertile world. The Xindi arc of Enterprise never takes place. In the long run, it is theoretically even possible that the Na'kuhl-Tholian side of the TCW never occurs, causing the complete termination of ENT's TCW arc, Xindi and non-Xindi. A few chunks of post-ENT canon are also outright voided by this, like the loss of the Constitution-class Defiant. Arguably, the restoration of Klingon cranial ridges is also endangered or lost according to STO canon, but they clearly have those anyway so whatever.
I'm not referring to STO here. Simply to the KT films themselves.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I'd still think that things involving events before Nero's incursion would be shared between the Prime and Kelvin timelines, so the disappearance of the Franklin would still work.
And you'd be correct in terms of how the films present it. Pegg is only over complication things by coming up with that ripples thing that's never happened in Star Trek before.
The timeline changes at the point of Nero's attack on the Kelvin, hence the name Kelvin Timeline. As there's nothing in the past of the films (i.e. before the incursion) that contradicts anything prior, Pegg's statement is also pointless.
The Franklin still disappeared in identical curcumstances in the Prime Timeline.
Actually, Pegg, @somtaawkhar and @peterconnorfirst are right. (Also, the 'never happened in Star Trek before' remark quickly falls apart if we're discussing STO; the entire Temporal Cold War is itself a 'ripple', or have you conveniently forgotten various FEs indicating this?)
Let's follow a possible instance of the effect, shall we?
CANON: Nero's arrival is believed by various posters (and outright stated in STO) to have had an accelerative influence on technological development. It has also effected changes to the galactic landscape, physically and possibly politically.
Theory: The alterations eventually prevent the battle of Narendra III, or alter its outcome in such a manner that either the alternate or canonical timelines of Yesterday's Enterprise are completely void. (An alternative approach might be to prevent the encounter with Armus or whatever he was called, thus saving Tasha Yar's life.)
Extrapolation: YE-Yar never goes back to Narendra with the Ent-C. She is never captured by Romulans, and does not give birth to Sela.
Expansion: Sela does not exist, and cannot participate in the predestination paradox responsible for the Iconian War. Aside from affecting the galactic timeline as far back as 200 thousand years, thus confirming Pegg's theorized ripple effect, it also affects said timeline as far forward as... who knows? (This may in turn cause further backward ripples, because the bulk of controlled time travel apparently occurs after the Iconian War.)
Side-effects: The Krenim weapon is never fired. The Tuterians are not assimilated, or at least have no reason to seek retribution. Noye and the Sphere Builders never participate in the Temporal Cold War. Galorndon Core remains a lush, fertile world. The Xindi arc of Enterprise never takes place. In the long run, it is theoretically even possible that the Na'kuhl-Tholian side of the TCW never occurs, causing the complete termination of ENT's TCW arc, Xindi and non-Xindi. A few chunks of post-ENT canon are also outright voided by this, like the loss of the Constitution-class Defiant. Arguably, the restoration of Klingon cranial ridges is also endangered or lost according to STO canon, but they clearly have those anyway so whatever.
I'm not referring to STO here. Simply to the KT films themselves.
Mmm, I may have picked the wrong example for a non-STO instance. First Contact, Generations or a variety of TNG/DS9/VOY episodes would work better.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
I'd still think that things involving events before Nero's incursion would be shared between the Prime and Kelvin timelines, so the disappearance of the Franklin would still work.
And you'd be correct in terms of how the films present it. Pegg is only over complication things by coming up with that ripples thing that's never happened in Star Trek before.
The timeline changes at the point of Nero's attack on the Kelvin, hence the name Kelvin Timeline. As there's nothing in the past of the films (i.e. before the incursion) that contradicts anything prior, Pegg's statement is also pointless.
The Franklin still disappeared in identical curcumstances in the Prime Timeline.
Actually, Pegg, @somtaawkhar and @peterconnorfirst are right. (Also, the 'never happened in Star Trek before' remark quickly falls apart if we're discussing STO; the entire Temporal Cold War is itself a 'ripple', or have you conveniently forgotten various FEs indicating this?)
Let's follow a possible instance of the effect, shall we?
CANON: Nero's arrival is believed by various posters (and outright stated in STO) to have had an accelerative influence on technological development. It has also effected changes to the galactic landscape, physically and possibly politically.
Theory: The alterations eventually prevent the battle of Narendra III, or alter its outcome in such a manner that either the alternate or canonical timelines of Yesterday's Enterprise are completely void. (An alternative approach might be to prevent the encounter with Armus or whatever he was called, thus saving Tasha Yar's life.)
Extrapolation: YE-Yar never goes back to Narendra with the Ent-C. She is never captured by Romulans, and does not give birth to Sela.
Expansion: Sela does not exist, and cannot participate in the predestination paradox responsible for the Iconian War. Aside from affecting the galactic timeline as far back as 200 thousand years, thus confirming Pegg's theorized ripple effect, it also affects said timeline as far forward as... who knows? (This may in turn cause further backward ripples, because the bulk of controlled time travel apparently occurs after the Iconian War.)
Side-effects: The Krenim weapon is never fired. The Tuterians are not assimilated, or at least have no reason to seek retribution. Noye and the Sphere Builders never participate in the Temporal Cold War. Galorndon Core remains a lush, fertile world. The Xindi arc of Enterprise never takes place. In the long run, it is theoretically even possible that the Na'kuhl-Tholian side of the TCW never occurs, causing the complete termination of ENT's TCW arc, Xindi and non-Xindi. A few chunks of post-ENT canon are also outright voided by this, like the loss of the Constitution-class Defiant. Arguably, the restoration of Klingon cranial ridges is also endangered or lost according to STO canon, but they clearly have those anyway so whatever.
I'm not referring to STO here. Simply to the KT films themselves.
Mmm, I may have picked the wrong example for a non-STO instance. First Contact, Generations or a variety of TNG/DS9/VOY episodes would work better.
No DS9 = no Bell riots sort of thing? Because that was history being changed. Sisko wasn't always Bell.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I'd still think that things involving events before Nero's incursion would be shared between the Prime and Kelvin timelines, so the disappearance of the Franklin would still work.
And you'd be correct in terms of how the films present it. Pegg is only over complication things by coming up with that ripples thing that's never happened in Star Trek before.
The timeline changes at the point of Nero's attack on the Kelvin, hence the name Kelvin Timeline. As there's nothing in the past of the films (i.e. before the incursion) that contradicts anything prior, Pegg's statement is also pointless.
The Franklin still disappeared in identical curcumstances in the Prime Timeline.
Actually, Pegg, @somtaawkhar and @peterconnorfirst are right. (Also, the 'never happened in Star Trek before' remark quickly falls apart if we're discussing STO; the entire Temporal Cold War is itself a 'ripple', or have you conveniently forgotten various FEs indicating this?)
Let's follow a possible instance of the effect, shall we?
CANON: Nero's arrival is believed by various posters (and outright stated in STO) to have had an accelerative influence on technological development. It has also effected changes to the galactic landscape, physically and possibly politically.
Theory: The alterations eventually prevent the battle of Narendra III, or alter its outcome in such a manner that either the alternate or canonical timelines of Yesterday's Enterprise are completely void. (An alternative approach might be to prevent the encounter with Armus or whatever he was called, thus saving Tasha Yar's life.)
Extrapolation: YE-Yar never goes back to Narendra with the Ent-C. She is never captured by Romulans, and does not give birth to Sela.
Expansion: Sela does not exist, and cannot participate in the predestination paradox responsible for the Iconian War. Aside from affecting the galactic timeline as far back as 200 thousand years, thus confirming Pegg's theorized ripple effect, it also affects said timeline as far forward as... who knows? (This may in turn cause further backward ripples, because the bulk of controlled time travel apparently occurs after the Iconian War.)
Side-effects: The Krenim weapon is never fired. The Tuterians are not assimilated, or at least have no reason to seek retribution. Noye and the Sphere Builders never participate in the Temporal Cold War. Galorndon Core remains a lush, fertile world. The Xindi arc of Enterprise never takes place. In the long run, it is theoretically even possible that the Na'kuhl-Tholian side of the TCW never occurs, causing the complete termination of ENT's TCW arc, Xindi and non-Xindi. A few chunks of post-ENT canon are also outright voided by this, like the loss of the Constitution-class Defiant. Arguably, the restoration of Klingon cranial ridges is also endangered or lost according to STO canon, but they clearly have those anyway so whatever.
I'm not referring to STO here. Simply to the KT films themselves.
Mmm, I may have picked the wrong example for a non-STO instance. First Contact, Generations or a variety of TNG/DS9/VOY episodes would work better.
No DS9 = no Bell riots sort of thing? Because that was history being changed. Sisko wasn't always Bell.
More likely, no Roswell landing. Come to think of it, I can't think of a lot of DS9 episodes involving time travel.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
I'd still think that things involving events before Nero's incursion would be shared between the Prime and Kelvin timelines, so the disappearance of the Franklin would still work.
And you'd be correct in terms of how the films present it. Pegg is only over complication things by coming up with that ripples thing that's never happened in Star Trek before.
The timeline changes at the point of Nero's attack on the Kelvin, hence the name Kelvin Timeline. As there's nothing in the past of the films (i.e. before the incursion) that contradicts anything prior, Pegg's statement is also pointless.
The Franklin still disappeared in identical curcumstances in the Prime Timeline.
Actually, Pegg, @somtaawkhar and @peterconnorfirst are right. (Also, the 'never happened in Star Trek before' remark quickly falls apart if we're discussing STO; the entire Temporal Cold War is itself a 'ripple', or have you conveniently forgotten various FEs indicating this?)
Let's follow a possible instance of the effect, shall we?
CANON: Nero's arrival is believed by various posters (and outright stated in STO) to have had an accelerative influence on technological development. It has also effected changes to the galactic landscape, physically and possibly politically.
Theory: The alterations eventually prevent the battle of Narendra III, or alter its outcome in such a manner that either the alternate or canonical timelines of Yesterday's Enterprise are completely void. (An alternative approach might be to prevent the encounter with Armus or whatever he was called, thus saving Tasha Yar's life.)
Extrapolation: YE-Yar never goes back to Narendra with the Ent-C. She is never captured by Romulans, and does not give birth to Sela.
Expansion: Sela does not exist, and cannot participate in the predestination paradox responsible for the Iconian War. Aside from affecting the galactic timeline as far back as 200 thousand years, thus confirming Pegg's theorized ripple effect, it also affects said timeline as far forward as... who knows? (This may in turn cause further backward ripples, because the bulk of controlled time travel apparently occurs after the Iconian War.)
Side-effects: The Krenim weapon is never fired. The Tuterians are not assimilated, or at least have no reason to seek retribution. Noye and the Sphere Builders never participate in the Temporal Cold War. Galorndon Core remains a lush, fertile world. The Xindi arc of Enterprise never takes place. In the long run, it is theoretically even possible that the Na'kuhl-Tholian side of the TCW never occurs, causing the complete termination of ENT's TCW arc, Xindi and non-Xindi. A few chunks of post-ENT canon are also outright voided by this, like the loss of the Constitution-class Defiant. Arguably, the restoration of Klingon cranial ridges is also endangered or lost according to STO canon, but they clearly have those anyway so whatever.
I'm not referring to STO here. Simply to the KT films themselves.
Mmm, I may have picked the wrong example for a non-STO instance. First Contact, Generations or a variety of TNG/DS9/VOY episodes would work better.
No DS9 = no Bell riots sort of thing? Because that was history being changed. Sisko wasn't always Bell.
More likely, no Roswell landing. Come to think of it, I can't think of a lot of DS9 episodes involving time travel.
Triles and Tribblations. The one where the DTI
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I'd still think that things involving events before Nero's incursion would be shared between the Prime and Kelvin timelines, so the disappearance of the Franklin would still work.
And you'd be correct in terms of how the films present it. Pegg is only over complication things by coming up with that ripples thing that's never happened in Star Trek before.
The timeline changes at the point of Nero's attack on the Kelvin, hence the name Kelvin Timeline. As there's nothing in the past of the films (i.e. before the incursion) that contradicts anything prior, Pegg's statement is also pointless.
The Franklin still disappeared in identical curcumstances in the Prime Timeline.
Actually, Pegg, @somtaawkhar and @peterconnorfirst are right. (Also, the 'never happened in Star Trek before' remark quickly falls apart if we're discussing STO; the entire Temporal Cold War is itself a 'ripple', or have you conveniently forgotten various FEs indicating this?)
Let's follow a possible instance of the effect, shall we?
CANON: Nero's arrival is believed by various posters (and outright stated in STO) to have had an accelerative influence on technological development. It has also effected changes to the galactic landscape, physically and possibly politically.
Theory: The alterations eventually prevent the battle of Narendra III, or alter its outcome in such a manner that either the alternate or canonical timelines of Yesterday's Enterprise are completely void. (An alternative approach might be to prevent the encounter with Armus or whatever he was called, thus saving Tasha Yar's life.)
Extrapolation: YE-Yar never goes back to Narendra with the Ent-C. She is never captured by Romulans, and does not give birth to Sela.
Expansion: Sela does not exist, and cannot participate in the predestination paradox responsible for the Iconian War. Aside from affecting the galactic timeline as far back as 200 thousand years, thus confirming Pegg's theorized ripple effect, it also affects said timeline as far forward as... who knows? (This may in turn cause further backward ripples, because the bulk of controlled time travel apparently occurs after the Iconian War.)
Side-effects: The Krenim weapon is never fired. The Tuterians are not assimilated, or at least have no reason to seek retribution. Noye and the Sphere Builders never participate in the Temporal Cold War. Galorndon Core remains a lush, fertile world. The Xindi arc of Enterprise never takes place. In the long run, it is theoretically even possible that the Na'kuhl-Tholian side of the TCW never occurs, causing the complete termination of ENT's TCW arc, Xindi and non-Xindi. A few chunks of post-ENT canon are also outright voided by this, like the loss of the Constitution-class Defiant. Arguably, the restoration of Klingon cranial ridges is also endangered or lost according to STO canon, but they clearly have those anyway so whatever.
I'm not referring to STO here. Simply to the KT films themselves.
Mmm, I may have picked the wrong example for a non-STO instance. First Contact, Generations or a variety of TNG/DS9/VOY episodes would work better.
No DS9 = no Bell riots sort of thing? Because that was history being changed. Sisko wasn't always Bell.
More likely, no Roswell landing. Come to think of it, I can't think of a lot of DS9 episodes involving time travel.
Triles and Tribblations. The one where the DTI
Soooo... tribbles aren't brought back from extinction. I think this one has even less impact on pre-DS9 than the Roswell landing.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
I'd still think that things involving events before Nero's incursion would be shared between the Prime and Kelvin timelines, so the disappearance of the Franklin would still work.
And you'd be correct in terms of how the films present it. Pegg is only over complication things by coming up with that ripples thing that's never happened in Star Trek before.
The timeline changes at the point of Nero's attack on the Kelvin, hence the name Kelvin Timeline. As there's nothing in the past of the films (i.e. before the incursion) that contradicts anything prior, Pegg's statement is also pointless.
The Franklin still disappeared in identical curcumstances in the Prime Timeline.
Actually, Pegg, @somtaawkhar and @peterconnorfirst are right. (Also, the 'never happened in Star Trek before' remark quickly falls apart if we're discussing STO; the entire Temporal Cold War is itself a 'ripple', or have you conveniently forgotten various FEs indicating this?)
Let's follow a possible instance of the effect, shall we?
CANON: Nero's arrival is believed by various posters (and outright stated in STO) to have had an accelerative influence on technological development. It has also effected changes to the galactic landscape, physically and possibly politically.
Theory: The alterations eventually prevent the battle of Narendra III, or alter its outcome in such a manner that either the alternate or canonical timelines of Yesterday's Enterprise are completely void. (An alternative approach might be to prevent the encounter with Armus or whatever he was called, thus saving Tasha Yar's life.)
Extrapolation: YE-Yar never goes back to Narendra with the Ent-C. She is never captured by Romulans, and does not give birth to Sela.
Expansion: Sela does not exist, and cannot participate in the predestination paradox responsible for the Iconian War. Aside from affecting the galactic timeline as far back as 200 thousand years, thus confirming Pegg's theorized ripple effect, it also affects said timeline as far forward as... who knows? (This may in turn cause further backward ripples, because the bulk of controlled time travel apparently occurs after the Iconian War.)
Side-effects: The Krenim weapon is never fired. The Tuterians are not assimilated, or at least have no reason to seek retribution. Noye and the Sphere Builders never participate in the Temporal Cold War. Galorndon Core remains a lush, fertile world. The Xindi arc of Enterprise never takes place. In the long run, it is theoretically even possible that the Na'kuhl-Tholian side of the TCW never occurs, causing the complete termination of ENT's TCW arc, Xindi and non-Xindi. A few chunks of post-ENT canon are also outright voided by this, like the loss of the Constitution-class Defiant. Arguably, the restoration of Klingon cranial ridges is also endangered or lost according to STO canon, but they clearly have those anyway so whatever.
I'm not referring to STO here. Simply to the KT films themselves.
Mmm, I may have picked the wrong example for a non-STO instance. First Contact, Generations or a variety of TNG/DS9/VOY episodes would work better.
No DS9 = no Bell riots sort of thing? Because that was history being changed. Sisko wasn't always Bell.
More likely, no Roswell landing. Come to think of it, I can't think of a lot of DS9 episodes involving time travel.
Triles and Tribblations. The one where the DTI
Soooo... tribbles aren't brought back from extinction. I think this one has even less impact on pre-DS9 than the Roswell landing.
Uugh, my phone cut off the rest of my post. I was going to talk about the DTIs views on predestination paradoxes.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Let's follow a possible instance of the effect, shall we?
CANON: Nero's arrival is believed by various posters (and outright stated in STO) to have had an accelerative influence on technological development. It has also effected changes to the galactic landscape, physically and possibly politically.
Theory: The alterations eventually prevent the battle of Narendra III, or alter its outcome in such a manner that either the alternate or canonical timelines of Yesterday's Enterprise are completely void. (An alternative approach might be to prevent the encounter with Armus or whatever he was called, thus saving Tasha Yar's life.)
Extrapolation: YE-Yar never goes back to Narendra with the Ent-C. She is never captured by Romulans, and does not give birth to Sela.
Expansion: Sela does not exist, and cannot participate in the predestination paradox responsible for the Iconian War. Aside from affecting the galactic timeline as far back as 200 thousand years, thus confirming Pegg's theorized ripple effect, it also affects said timeline as far forward as... who knows? (This may in turn cause further backward ripples, because the bulk of controlled time travel apparently occurs after the Iconian War.)
Side-effects: The Krenim weapon is never fired. The Tuterians are not assimilated, or at least have no reason to seek retribution. Noye and the Sphere Builders never participate in the Temporal Cold War. Galorndon Core remains a lush, fertile world. The Xindi arc of Enterprise never takes place. In the long run, it is theoretically even possible that the Na'kuhl-Tholian side of the TCW never occurs, causing the complete termination of ENT's TCW arc, Xindi and non-Xindi. A few chunks of post-ENT canon are also outright voided by this, like the loss of the Constitution-class Defiant. Arguably, the restoration of Klingon cranial ridges is also endangered or lost according to STO canon, but they clearly have those anyway so whatever.
Ah... but your side effect is countered by a bit from Beyond where Krall mentioned fighting the Xindi, meaning that the events of the Xindi conflict, and later the Earth-Romulan War did take place. The Tuterians were the ones who pushed for the Xindi to strike Earth, this leading to the Xindi arc. The fact Krall mentions the Xindi by name means the Xindi arc did happen as seen in Enterprise in both Prime and Kelvin timelines since the branch point is Nero's arrival.
The Klingon ridges could be explained as we never saw Qo'nos in TOS, and therefor don't know how wide spread the Augment Virus was that spawned the TOS Klingons. It is entirely possible that Qo'nos itself was mostly spared, and thus the Klingons were more natural looking than those on the outer edges of the Empire who were affected by the Virus. Or they could be a subset who were unaffected or some other variable. Maybe the Kelvin Klingon look is part of a separate ethnic group of Klingons.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
I'd still think that things involving events before Nero's incursion would be shared between the Prime and Kelvin timelines, so the disappearance of the Franklin would still work.
Assuming that the Kelvin timeline split off from the Prime timeline and is not a parallel universe. There is no proof either way whether the Kelvin Universe is a parallel universe or branched timeline. All that we know is that Spock and Nero were swallowed by what is assumed to be a black hole and ended up in a universe that looked like the 23rd Century.
However assuming that there is no time travel between the USS Kelvin in the Prime timeline and the start of TOS and the Kelvin timeline is a branched timeline, then the Kelvin timeline is originally from the timeline shown in the first few episodes of TOS and not the one from Nemesis with Whales being abducted in the 20th Century, Borg invading Earth in the 21st Century, and alien TRIBBLE. All instances of time travel would be removed and replaced with new instances of time travel. Just because there is a Xindi Conflict in the Kelvin timeline doesn't necessarily mean the Sphere Builders were involved. The cause of the Xindi Conflict in the Kelvin timeline could have been due to 29th Century Ferengi and had absolutely nothing to do with Sphere Builders and the Enterprise-J from the Kelvin Timeline for all we know.
The fact Krall mentions the Xindi by name means the Xindi arc did happen as seen in Enterprise in both Prime and Kelvin timelines since the branch point is Nero's arrival.
No, it only really means there was a Xindi arc, not that it was the Xindi arc we saw in ENT. Like @starkaos said, it may very well have been the Kelvin Ferengi that traveled back to issue those orders. (It probably wasn't, I can't see the Ferengi doing stuff like that... but it could have been.)
In a universe that has time travel, the butterfly effect and all variants thereof aren't constrained only to the future but also to the past - without extremely detailed knowledge of its history from the Big Bang to the Gnab Gib, you can't know how the changes are going to affect the bulk of the timeline. (I like to think that the randomness of Butterfly's Alpha scenario was not so much 'random' as 'we thought about what might happen if the Iconians went extinct'. I may be a little optimistic there. )
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Except that isn't nonsensical at all. Even today, Cold War era actions are effecting the world in major ways.
The real world does not have these "fire and forget" scenarios where something happens, and then nothing comes of it years, or decades, down the line.
STO harps on plots from the shows because thats how the real world works. You do something, and then, in the future, something else happens because of it.
Like how Voyager reviving the Vaadwaur would logically have some effect on the Delta Quadrant decades later, once the Vaadwaur have been able to stabilize their situation, and thus we get Delta Rising.
Not to get too political, but it's like how many nations gave large numbers of weapons and military training to various groups in the Middle East, back in the Cold War, to fight a number of proxy battles, and then, decades later, those same groups turned around and used those weapons on the countries who gave them the weapons in the first place. And we are still dealing with them now.
STO is doing EXACTLY what is should be doing in order to build an actual unvierse rather then just a string of "villain of the week" plots that never get brought up again like the TV shows did.
What makes other Star Trek games BAD is that they DON'T build on events from the TV shows, which makes them come off and entirely random bits of fanfiction not connected to the actual unvierse beyond superficial visuals.
I get your point and will say that it makes sense when the execution is well done. In STO though I don't have the impression. It's simply name-dropping most of the time and neglects the potential for interesting new stories in the old universe. Ultimately it's a matter of taste, but I don't have a big desire picking up old plots and see "what comes off it" when they ultiamtely feel shoehorned into a plot that would have worked otherwise, if that makes sense.
For example, I really disliked having 8472 be the big bad at the beginning of the game when the conflict was resolved already. Cryptic later retconned it so the Iconians were the bads and tricked 8472 into the war, but that simply doesn't make sense considering the deus ex machina Iconians wouldn't have a need for those games anyway since they are so uber - but at the same time fail again and again over simple plots.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
You all are missing the amazingness of my suggestion!
Jaylah!
With Sofia Boutella voice acting!
We've already got people to play "Montgomery Scotty!"
Finally a scene that can take place on OUR bridge, as Jaylah sits in YOUR captain's chair. And it'd be a reason to update the animations for melee combat!
For example, I really disliked having 8472 be the big bad at the beginning of the game when the conflict was resolved already. Cryptic later retconned it so the Iconians were the bads and tricked 8472 into the war, but that simply doesn't make sense considering the deus ex machina Iconians wouldn't have a need for those games anyway since they are so uber - but at the same time fail again and again over simple plots.
Except
A. That was never a recton, as the Iconians were ALWAYS the ones behind the Undine attacking he Feds/Klingons. Even when the game launched, the intent was that the Iconians were behind it.
B. Any strategist would tell you that doing everything possible to weaken enemy resistance before you attack directly is a good thing, no matter how powerful your forces are. It doesn't matter how strong the Iconans are, it's basic war 101 that you do everything you can to weaken the enemy before the primary attack, so you have to spend as little effort in defeating them yourself as possible, and to minimize the chances that they could do something that could beat you.
Also, the Iconians themselves never failed at anything. The only ones who failed were the Iconian servitors(Elachi, Solonae, Bluegill, Tal Shiar, Vaadwaur)
Divide and conquer, weaken your opponents with your servitors and the use of deception and once they are weakened by fighting each other you finish them.
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
That doesn't make the story any better, though. The Iconian war arc remains the most anticlimactic one I've ever played. I did like the ultimate resolution of the conflict, however I'd rather had seen other arcs explored.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Divide and conquer, weaken your opponents with your servitors and the use of deception and once they are weakened by fighting each other you finish them.
Yep.
It doesn't really matter that the Undine plot was eventually stopped, all that matters is that the Undine plot got the Federation and Klingon Empire to waste years fighting each other instead of coming together behind a common enemy. Which in turn cost both of them many ships and crew that could have been used against the Iconians.
The same is true of the Elachi attacks of the Romulan Republic forces, the Vaawdaur assault on the Delta Quadrant, all of the things the Tal Shiar were doing in the name of the Iconians.
The plots ultimately "succeeding" or not is never what mattered. What mattered was that all of these plots eroded away the power base of those who would stand against the Iconians by a rather large amount.
"All warfare is based on deception", Sun Tzu The Art of War
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
I'd wish Cryptic stays with the Lukari for a while and continues an original storyline instead of once again cannibalizing canon events. STO is at a point where repeated ENT, TOS or TNG anecdotes become pointless, they should just shape their own universe now.
I agree, enough with ripping off stories that have been told already, just give us new stuff that is only canon to sto.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Comments
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Why? Given the countless time travel stories in the prime universe there is no way of knowing how things evolved in the Kelvin timeline as a result of Nero’s interaction. Did they do the same amount of time travels there? Had they none? Did they do them with the same results or where they different? There is no way of knowing.
Whatever.
I would not mind if STO takes elements from Beyond and puts them in context of the main timeline. Could imagine some interesting stories there. The aliens alone would make a nice addition to the game. They are completely free to do whatever they like and without feeling bad about there.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
And you'd be correct in terms of how the films present it. Pegg is only over complication things by coming up with that ripples thing that's never happened in Star Trek before.
The timeline changes at the point of Nero's attack on the Kelvin, hence the name Kelvin Timeline. As there's nothing in the past of the films (i.e. before the incursion) that contradicts anything prior, Pegg's statement is also pointless.
The Franklin still disappeared in identical curcumstances in the Prime Timeline.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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+1
Hopefully the lukari won't suffer the same fate as the deferi and will fade into oblivion once the anniversary is over. Wouldn't be the first time someone gets a huge build up only to be forgotten again.
Absolutely. The Deferi had a lore build up to become the half-faction, allied with red and blue and it would have made sense. Instead we got romulans, which made no sense, and Defera was completely abandoned. What followed were years of cannibalized show plots and lots and lots of expensive voice actors in lieu of original plots. 25th Anniversary or A Final Unity are great games because they created their own worlds that felt authentic in the Star Trek universe. STOs plots are supposed to take place in the 25th century but nonsensically keep on referencing events hundreds of years or at least decades ago. It can work, once in a while for a special event, but not constantly. Our galactic god character always walks in the shadows of the Enterprise crew.
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Actually, Pegg, @somtaawkhar and @peterconnorfirst are right. (Also, the 'never happened in Star Trek before' remark quickly falls apart if we're discussing STO; the entire Temporal Cold War is itself a 'ripple', or have you conveniently forgotten various FEs indicating this?)
Let's follow a possible instance of the effect, shall we?
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
I'm not referring to STO here. Simply to the KT films themselves.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Mmm, I may have picked the wrong example for a non-STO instance. First Contact, Generations or a variety of TNG/DS9/VOY episodes would work better.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
No DS9 = no Bell riots sort of thing? Because that was history being changed. Sisko wasn't always Bell.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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More likely, no Roswell landing. Come to think of it, I can't think of a lot of DS9 episodes involving time travel.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Triles and Tribblations. The one where the DTI
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Soooo... tribbles aren't brought back from extinction. I think this one has even less impact on pre-DS9 than the Roswell landing.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Uugh, my phone cut off the rest of my post. I was going to talk about the DTIs views on predestination paradoxes.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Ah... but your side effect is countered by a bit from Beyond where Krall mentioned fighting the Xindi, meaning that the events of the Xindi conflict, and later the Earth-Romulan War did take place. The Tuterians were the ones who pushed for the Xindi to strike Earth, this leading to the Xindi arc. The fact Krall mentions the Xindi by name means the Xindi arc did happen as seen in Enterprise in both Prime and Kelvin timelines since the branch point is Nero's arrival.
The Klingon ridges could be explained as we never saw Qo'nos in TOS, and therefor don't know how wide spread the Augment Virus was that spawned the TOS Klingons. It is entirely possible that Qo'nos itself was mostly spared, and thus the Klingons were more natural looking than those on the outer edges of the Empire who were affected by the Virus. Or they could be a subset who were unaffected or some other variable. Maybe the Kelvin Klingon look is part of a separate ethnic group of Klingons.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Assuming that the Kelvin timeline split off from the Prime timeline and is not a parallel universe. There is no proof either way whether the Kelvin Universe is a parallel universe or branched timeline. All that we know is that Spock and Nero were swallowed by what is assumed to be a black hole and ended up in a universe that looked like the 23rd Century.
However assuming that there is no time travel between the USS Kelvin in the Prime timeline and the start of TOS and the Kelvin timeline is a branched timeline, then the Kelvin timeline is originally from the timeline shown in the first few episodes of TOS and not the one from Nemesis with Whales being abducted in the 20th Century, Borg invading Earth in the 21st Century, and alien TRIBBLE. All instances of time travel would be removed and replaced with new instances of time travel. Just because there is a Xindi Conflict in the Kelvin timeline doesn't necessarily mean the Sphere Builders were involved. The cause of the Xindi Conflict in the Kelvin timeline could have been due to 29th Century Ferengi and had absolutely nothing to do with Sphere Builders and the Enterprise-J from the Kelvin Timeline for all we know.
The beats and the shouting!
No, it only really means there was a Xindi arc, not that it was the Xindi arc we saw in ENT. Like @starkaos said, it may very well have been the Kelvin Ferengi that traveled back to issue those orders. (It probably wasn't, I can't see the Ferengi doing stuff like that... but it could have been.)
In a universe that has time travel, the butterfly effect and all variants thereof aren't constrained only to the future but also to the past - without extremely detailed knowledge of its history from the Big Bang to the Gnab Gib, you can't know how the changes are going to affect the bulk of the timeline. (I like to think that the randomness of Butterfly's Alpha scenario was not so much 'random' as 'we thought about what might happen if the Iconians went extinct'. I may be a little optimistic there.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
I get your point and will say that it makes sense when the execution is well done. In STO though I don't have the impression. It's simply name-dropping most of the time and neglects the potential for interesting new stories in the old universe. Ultimately it's a matter of taste, but I don't have a big desire picking up old plots and see "what comes off it" when they ultiamtely feel shoehorned into a plot that would have worked otherwise, if that makes sense.
For example, I really disliked having 8472 be the big bad at the beginning of the game when the conflict was resolved already. Cryptic later retconned it so the Iconians were the bads and tricked 8472 into the war, but that simply doesn't make sense considering the deus ex machina Iconians wouldn't have a need for those games anyway since they are so uber - but at the same time fail again and again over simple plots.
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Jaylah!
With Sofia Boutella voice acting!
We've already got people to play "Montgomery Scotty!"
Finally a scene that can take place on OUR bridge, as Jaylah sits in YOUR captain's chair. And it'd be a reason to update the animations for melee combat!
Divide and conquer, weaken your opponents with your servitors and the use of deception and once they are weakened by fighting each other you finish them.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
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"All warfare is based on deception", Sun Tzu The Art of War
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
I agree, enough with ripping off stories that have been told already, just give us new stuff that is only canon to sto.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.