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T6 Assault Cruiser...

Is it me or does it look like a "glorified" Guardian Cruiser? I took a quick glance at both the specs on the Archon and Guardian class's. Besides a few hull points and a minor turn rate boost on the Archon. They looked exactly the same spec/boff wise. I am not knocking it by any means. I was considering getting it myself. I just don't want to spend $$$ on another Guardian Cruiser so-to-speak.
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Comments

  • vegeta50024vegeta50024 Member Posts: 2,336 Arc User
    fl219 wrote: »
    Is it me or does it look like a "glorified" Guardian Cruiser? I took a quick glance at both the specs on the Archon and Guardian class's. Besides a few hull points and a minor turn rate boost on the Archon. They looked exactly the same spec/boff wise. I am not knocking it by any means. I was considering getting it myself. I just don't want to spend $$$ on another Guardian Cruiser so-to-speak.

    It is just you. They probably took more of the design queues from the Regent and improved on them.

    TSC_Signature_Gen_4_-_Vegeta_Small.png
  • seriousdaveseriousdave Member Posts: 2,777 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    Don't know were you've been looking but those are two very different ships.

    Guardian:
    cmdr engi
    lt.cmdr tac
    lt.cmdr sci
    lt.engi/intel
    ensign uni
    consoles: 3 tac, 4 engi (+1 fleet), 3 sci

    Archon:
    cmdr engi
    lt.cmdr tac
    lt.cmdr uni/intel < command on the other (worse) variant
    lt.engi
    ensign tac
    consoles: 3 tac (+1 fleet), 5 engi, 2 sci

  • fl219fl219 Member Posts: 211 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    I am not talking about the "looks" or the fleet version. I am talking about the regular T6 versions of both.


    LTC Tac (guardian/archon)
    ENS Uni (Uni guardian, tac archon)
    CMDR (guardian/archon)
    LT Eng (guardian/archon)
    LTC Sci (sci guardian, uni archon)

    Cons: Tac (3 guardian/3 archon)
    Eng (5 guardian/ 4 archon)
    Sci (2 guardian/ 3 archon)

    Hull: 53,000 guardian, 52,000 archon
    Shield: Same for both

    Those are what I see. I might still get the Archon. I just don't want 2 ships with same abilities.

    You have to admit they are ALMOST identical. And easly made simular. I am not knocking the Archon. It looks cool aside from the overgrown warp nacelles. :)
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    As always.. you're completely and totally wrong.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 59,174 Community Moderator
    If you want to look at it that way... then just consider the Archon an alternative to the Guardian if you don't like the look of the ship model.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
    colored text = mod mode
  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    As always.. you're completely and totally wrong.

    Can you walk me through it? Because at a very superficial level the question seems fair.

    They clearly diverge a bit more at the fleet level. And the Guardian's universal slot is more flexible unless you like going null-blue.

    Hmm. That actually suggest you could do something obnoxious with an Archon with triple Krenim tactical Boffs...
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 59,174 Community Moderator
    edited November 2016
    I think its the issue that you can't really have a lot of diversity with only a limited range. How many variations can you make based on what is established as typical Cruiser stats and setup before you have something similar appear? Even if it is similar to the Guardian, the Archon is another option available to people. If someone doesn't like the look of the Guardian, but likes the stats, the Archon is close enough and can look like a canon ship.

    Its not all a numbers game. Asthetics do come into play as well. And the Archon DOES have a lot more customization options available to her than the Guardian does.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
    colored text = mod mode
  • captainchaos66captainchaos66 Member Posts: 409 Arc User
    I'm hoping the Archon is NOTHING like the Guardian. The Guardian is a HORRIBLE ship in my experience!!! I've tried multiple builds on multiple characters and each one has a different level of suckage, but the suck-o-meter is pegged on all of them!!! I'm looking forward to getting the Archon and trying it out tonight! May even invest in some shiny new gear just for the occasion!
    ***************************
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    Fighting 5th Attack Squadron
    The Devils Henchman
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    Guardian is fine, but the both T6 Sovereigns are very different ships from her. I don't know what kind of pot you're smoking, OP.
    XzRTofz.gif
  • kontarnuskontarnus Member Posts: 289 Arc User
    They're both cruisers, after a while there's not much variation to be had:
    CDR Eng -- Standard Cruiser boff seating.
    Lt Eng -- Standard.
    LtC Tac -- Now standard T6 Cruiser seating
    Ens Tac/Uni -- Standard options
    Ltc Sci -- Adds overall tactical capability in battle, standard on tactically oriented T6 cruisers.

    I suppose some people would like the LtC Sci to be Universal, so that they can load up on tactical, similar to how they could with the Regent, but that Sci seat is useful and effective.
    "Intelligence is finite, stupidity is infinite" -- Umberto Eco
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  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    Have to admit, I've got more than a bit of buyer's remorse with mine, I think I prefer the Guardian...
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    The Guardian and Assault Cruiser are very similar but not the same. Lots of ships are very similar to other ships BTW. Nothing new here.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • fl219fl219 Member Posts: 211 Arc User
    Thanks for all your views. I am not against the Archon. A simple nacelle switch (wich you can do) would solve my view about the over large nacelle's. I was just commenting on what I saw as similar stat wise. I didn't mean to ruin anyones view of the Archon. Or cause "buyer's remorse" on anyone. If it handles totally different then the Guardian does, then great! Even similar to the Guardian.....great! Player's wanted a T6 Sovereign. And player's got a T6 Sovereign! I am still thinking about getting it. I just thought the stats looked like the Guardian's stat's. If I am wrong, then I can accept that. Thats why i posted my question. If it does infact handle different, then I can feel like my $$$ isn't being wasted on a Guardian rehash. (again stat, not looks) Not that I have anything against the Guardian either.
  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    Still like the looks, big nacelles and all - once I slapped Imperial pylons on it :). Normally I find the TDI shield awful, but it was sort of fun in this case.

    Archon%20TDI%20beneath%20board_zpsrkvhcdrr.jpg
    Archon%20TDI%20board_zpsnbfgddih.jpg
  • fl219fl219 Member Posts: 211 Arc User
    nikeix.....your right, that does look sorta fun in that case.
  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    Have to say the 'upgrade' hull material is just gorgeous on this ship with a soft yellow sheen over the greys. I'm also a big fan of the Imperial saucer, so it sort of all came together...

    Imperial%20Defender%20Glow%20board_zpstsobiqob.jpg
    Imperial%20with%20web%202%20board_zps8yvowyp0.jpg
    Imperial%20Defender%20board_zpsoox9xbgh.jpg
    Imperial%20Defender%20Beneath%20board_zpsba3kyscc.jpg
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  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    So what would you put there?

    I mean I can see how you can go null-Sci and still have working shield and hull heals strictly through Engineering abilities. That opens up what? triple Krenim Tactical Boffs or maybe even more perversely triple Krenim Engineers? NINE abilities getting +30% cooldown could be hilarious... Cruisersaurus Rex :grin:. (Then toss in Battle Ready for unkillable zombie giggles)

    The ship trait is weird too - at least on the Archon itself. I may try it out on my Tholian Tarantula that I normally run with two command and two intel abilities.
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    fl219 wrote: »
    Thanks for all your views. I am not against the Archon. A simple nacelle switch (wich you can do) would solve my view about the over large nacelle's. I was just commenting on what I saw as similar stat wise. I didn't mean to ruin anyones view of the Archon. Or cause "buyer's remorse" on anyone. If it handles totally different then the Guardian does, then great! Even similar to the Guardian.....great! Player's wanted a T6 Sovereign. And player's got a T6 Sovereign! I am still thinking about getting it. I just thought the stats looked like the Guardian's stat's. If I am wrong, then I can accept that. Thats why i posted my question. If it does infact handle different, then I can feel like my $$$ isn't being wasted on a Guardian rehash. (again stat, not looks) Not that I have anything against the Guardian either.
    The thing which caused my buyer's remorse, was the Archon itself... I'm just not overly impressed with it, and prefer the BOFF layout of the Guardian, which I already had... I'll give it a bit longer to grow on me, and see if there's anything different I can do, any tricks I can learn or upgrades I can make (I'm already in the process of upgrading an RCS Console to try and improve the godawful turn-rate) but realistically, I'll probably Dry Dock or Discharge it by Monday...

    If anyone can make any suggestions for improving it, or tricks to try, I'd be open to them B)
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 3,215 Arc User
    The only problem I have with it so far is how the 4th tac console slot is the slot restricted to the fleet version, I'd rather if one of the sci or engi console slots were restricted to the fleet version instead.
    I stream on Twitch, look for Avoozl_
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    Further thoughts:
    After a little play, and a little research, my stance has moved to a strong 'f*ck the Archon'... It's been dry-docked, and is only not being dismissed altogether 'just incase' of future tweaks...

    If someone wants a Sovereign, get an actual Sovereign... The native console layout of the Sovereign is better...

    Oh, and it doesn't have clown-shoe nacelles ;)

    If someone wants a T6 Assault cruiser, I have found this to be a superior option:

    Yorktown-Class science cruiser... Load tactical officers into the LtCmdr and Ens slots, the weapons of your flavor, and bam: a T6 assault cruiser with good science and engineering seats, and five engineering slots...

    The skins available, allow the use of the Odyssey skin... Combined with the Yorktown skin, some very sleek combinations are possible (and although adding a Sojourner-Class saucer doesn't look sleek, I think it looks nice, so something else worth spending the extra Z on if you felt like it (I'm strongly considering doing so)

    Five engineering slots means plenty of options, and adding an RCS Accelerator begins boosting the turn rate immediately...

    So yeah, the Archon may be new, but new isn't always 'better', and for 500 Z more, I think there are better options available... B)

    YMMV B)
    Post edited by marcusdkane on
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    Further thoughts:
    After a little play, and a little research, my stance has moved to a strong 'f*ck the Archon'... It's been dry-docked, and is only not being dismissed altogether 'just incase' of future tweaks...

    If someone wants a Sovereign, get an actual Sovereign... The native console layout of the Sovereign is better, and the turn rate is over twice that of the Archon (7 degrees per second, rathe than 3 degrees per second)
    Have you tried equipping impulse engines on your Archon? Because the Archon has the same turn rate as the Sovereign, naturally, since it's a Tier 6 Sovereign and nothing else?

    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    Further thoughts:
    After a little play, and a little research, my stance has moved to a strong 'f*ck the Archon'... It's been dry-docked, and is only not being dismissed altogether 'just incase' of future tweaks...

    If someone wants a Sovereign, get an actual Sovereign... The native console layout of the Sovereign is better, and the turn rate is over twice that of the Archon (7 degrees per second, rathe than 3 degrees per second)
    Have you tried equipping impulse engines on your Archon? Because the Archon has the same turn rate as the Sovereign, naturally, since it's a Tier 6 Sovereign and nothing else?
    That would explain the low DpS on the stat list, which I checked while on the ground, with components off... :D Okay, I'll retract that part of my critique, but I stand by the rest, such as the better console layout of the Sovereign, and the significantly more versatile console layout of the Yorktown B)

  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    That would explain the low DpS on the stat list, which I checked while on the ground, with components off... :D Okay, I'll retract that part of my critique, but I stand by the rest, such as the better console layout of the Sovereign, and the significantly more versatile console layout of the Yorktown B)
    This doesn't make sense as the T5 Sovereign and T6 Archon console layout is identical with the exception that the Archon has an extra console slot which gives it a 5th engineering slot. Both T5 and T6 fleet versions have a 4th tactical console slot.

    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    Further thoughts:
    After a little play, and a little research, my stance has moved to a strong 'f*ck the Archon'... It's been dry-docked, and is only not being dismissed altogether 'just incase' of future tweaks...

    If someone wants a Sovereign, get an actual Sovereign... The native console layout of the Sovereign is better, and the turn rate is over twice that of the Archon (7 degrees per second, rathe than 3 degrees per second)

    Oh, and it doesn't have clown-shoe nacelles ;)

    If someone wants a T6 Assault cruiser, I have found this to be a superior option:

    Yorktown-Class science cruiser... Load tactical officers into the LtCmdr and Ens slots, the weapons of your flavor, and bam: a T6 assault cruiser with good science and engineering seats, and five engineering slots...

    The skins available, allow the use of the Odyssey skin... Combined with the Yorktown skin, some very sleek combinations are possible (and although adding a Sojourner-Class saucer doesn't look sleek, I think it looks nice, so something else worth spending the extra Z on if you felt like it (I'm strongly considering doing so)

    Five engineering slots means plenty of options, and adding an RCS Accelerator begins boosting the turn rate immediately...

    So yeah, the Archon may be new, but new isn't always 'better', and for 500 Z more, I think there are better options available... B)

    YMMV B)
    Did you even put engines on? You absolutely have no idea WTH is going on, do you?

    T5U Fleet Sovereign: Console Slots are 4 TAC / 5 ENG / 2 SCI. In addition, Turn Rate is 7, Impulse Mod 0.15, Inertia is 30.

    T6 Fleet Sovereign (Regular C-Store and Fleet Version info): Console Slots are THE SAME. In addition the handling is slightly better. Turn Rate, Impulse Mod is the same as with the T5 versions but Inertia is 40.

    You don't have to use the Archon model, you can use the previous models like the revamped Sovereign one.
    XzRTofz.gif
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    That would explain the low DpS on the stat list, which I checked while on the ground, with components off... :D Okay, I'll retract that part of my critique, but I stand by the rest, such as the better console layout of the Sovereign, and the significantly more versatile console layout of the Yorktown B)
    This doesn't make sense as the T5 Sovereign and T6 Archon console layout is identical with the exception that the Archon has an extra console slot which gives it a 5th engineering slot. Both T5 and T6 fleet versions have a 4th tactical console slot.
    The number of console slots is one thing, but the Sovereign and Yorktown have a dedicated science position, which the Archon does not...
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    ...but I stand by the rest, such as the better console layout of the Sovereign...
    The number of console slots is one thing, but the Sovereign and Yorktown have a dedicated science position, which the Archon does not...
    So what you meant to say is "boff station" not "console slot." Those are completely different things. The console layout, as I pointed out, is nearly identical and slightly superior on the Archon.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    Further thoughts:
    After a little play, and a little research, my stance has moved to a strong 'f*ck the Archon'... It's been dry-docked, and is only not being dismissed altogether 'just incase' of future tweaks...

    If someone wants a Sovereign, get an actual Sovereign... The native console layout of the Sovereign is better, and the turn rate is over twice that of the Archon (7 degrees per second, rathe than 3 degrees per second)

    Oh, and it doesn't have clown-shoe nacelles ;)

    If someone wants a T6 Assault cruiser, I have found this to be a superior option:

    Yorktown-Class science cruiser... Load tactical officers into the LtCmdr and Ens slots, the weapons of your flavor, and bam: a T6 assault cruiser with good science and engineering seats, and five engineering slots...

    The skins available, allow the use of the Odyssey skin... Combined with the Yorktown skin, some very sleek combinations are possible (and although adding a Sojourner-Class saucer doesn't look sleek, I think it looks nice, so something else worth spending the extra Z on if you felt like it (I'm strongly considering doing so)

    Five engineering slots means plenty of options, and adding an RCS Accelerator begins boosting the turn rate immediately...

    So yeah, the Archon may be new, but new isn't always 'better', and for 500 Z more, I think there are better options available... B)

    YMMV B)
    Did you even put engines on? You absolutely have no idea WTH is going on, do you?
    You have absoluely no idea how to communicate like a civilized person, do you...

    Did you even read my above acknowledgement of looking at the stats on the ground with the engine uninstalled? And my retraction of said comment from my previous post?

    I made a mistake, I corrected it... No need to jump all over it, but hey, that's clearly your schtick...
    T6 Fleet Sovereign (Regular C-Store and Fleet Version info): Console Slots are THE SAME. In addition the handling is slightly better. Turn Rate, Impulse Mod is the same as with the T5 versions but Inertia is 40.

    You don't have to use the Archon model, you can use the previous models like the revamped Sovereign one.
    I'm not talking about Fleet versions, but C Store versions... And yes, using the Sovereign skin is possible, or even putting Sovereign pylons and nacelles on the other Archon hull components, which looks pretty slick, but there's absolutely no escaping the fact that the Archon's lack of a dedicated science seat, means using the universal seat as either engineering or science, to get the healing options, which takes away the capacity to load a tactical officer... A ship identified and sold as a tactical cruiser, where the tactical element is woefully under-represented. By comparison, fhe Yorktown can load LtCmdr, Lt and Ens in tactical, with Cmdr as engineering and LtCmdr science... By that measure alone, the Yorktown is superior as a 'tactical cruiser'...

  • nobscunobscu Member Posts: 136 Arc User
    Similarities between ships are bound to crop up here and there, anyway.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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