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Matchmaking of tholian/borg red alert or how to annoy beginners with constant failure

aranvararanvar Member Posts: 4 Arc User
Hello;
I just wanted to say that I'm not particularly fine with losing often 30 minutes of my life, in a game wich, even great for star trek stuff, is already extremly grindy.
I lost those precious minutes of my life for litterally nothing because those alerts are clearly not scaled for players that are still not 60, not ultra rare +/reputation geared, and want to level their grindy reputations another time, just to make next missions a bit sweeter....
I failed all of those with very rare stuff crafted from main character, and I was always matched with other beginners that may have even worse stuff than me every time...as a result, dps is never sufficient to compensate the health and regeneration of the main ennemies (borg unimatrix, tarantula dreadnoughs etc), we all get constantly respawning and killed almost immediatly, lacking of damage resistance, whatever the class, and the timer quickly come out.
In the end, no one gets anything, and the loop start again...with no one progressing, because not having any marks to do so...
I dont remember it was like this in the past, i mean, that punishing...i remember it was even quite easy for my main character (science), and iremember to be matched fairly with more advanced players.

To solve this, may I suggest you just to make sure begginners arent only matched with other beginners; a single well geared character could even do any of those red alert mission alone easily, and would greatly help some player, or people with reroll progressing with a veteran on their side, and not having them instead trying to demolish a dps gate with their skull...

Just a feedback i wanted to leave, because I wasnt sure exactly what was the appropriate feedback subforum to leave it in...
Main character.
Lysten@aranvar (29th century Federation betazoid) :
U.S.S. Hari Seldon : Wells temporal science vessel
U.S.S. Rene Barjavel : Paradox temporal dreadnought

Comments

  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,602 Arc User
    The Red Alerts are scaled to 50, not 60. That means all players above 50 are reduced in apparent level to 50. A team of lvl 50 players 'should be able to handle it.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    I wouldn't expect many experienced players to play Borg alerts at all anymore, since they made it a queue and removed the XP boost.

    I certainly don't.
  • tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    they scale to L50 and I think most folks who do, dont do them any more... for marks just go to Deferra or Nukura. Making em ques, turned off some offs... removing xp boost, the others. Also for marks, for right now... faster to do event.
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    They don't need to change anything with the exception of removing the queue system.

    A team of fresh 50's can easily handle a Borg Red Alert. If you get even one moderately experienced player on your team then you'll finish it in under 5 min.

    This is some of the easiest content in the game, if you're asking for it to be made easier then it's time to open the discussion on your build and tactics. Changing the content is simply not needed.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • neomodiousneomodious Member Posts: 428 Arc User
    They don't need to change anything with the exception of removing the queue system.

    A team of fresh 50's can easily handle a Borg Red Alert. If you get even one moderately experienced player on your team then you'll finish it in under 5 min.

    This is some of the easiest content in the game, if you're asking for it to be made easier then it's time to open the discussion on your build and tactics. Changing the content is simply not needed.

    I would say they still ought to put the double XP back. It really helps level ships...​​
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,865 Arc User
    Polarize hull for tractors, hazard emitters for plasma burn. Brace for impact and evasive maneuvers to get away from a cube explosion.

    Stay together if you're new players, don't try to solo a couple of cubes and their probes.
  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,984 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    if I'm reading OP right he is more upset that lower tier captains are going into matches with min maxers
    sig.jpg
  • angrybobhangrybobh Member Posts: 420 Arc User
    if I'm reading OP right he is more upset that lower tier captains are going into matches with min maxers

    It seems to me like the other way around. Low geared guys aren't being matched with someone who can solo it. We should probably do as seaofsorrows suggested and help the OP put together a build worth using.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    neomodious wrote: »
    They don't need to change anything with the exception of removing the queue system.

    A team of fresh 50's can easily handle a Borg Red Alert. If you get even one moderately experienced player on your team then you'll finish it in under 5 min.

    This is some of the easiest content in the game, if you're asking for it to be made easier then it's time to open the discussion on your build and tactics. Changing the content is simply not needed.

    I would say they still ought to put the double XP back. It really helps level ships...​​

    I agree completely. Especially now that you're time gated on these and can't hop from alert to alert, removing the XP bonus is even more pointless.
    Insert witty signature line here.
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    They don't need to change anything with the exception of removing the queue system.

    Exactly this. People capable of soloing it would show up, if they were allowed to solo it and not have to wait in line.

    Removing the intermediary jump-in introduced with the sector space revamp would also be of the good. Used to be you could enter the mission instantly, straight from the prompt, and be returned back to sector space where you left off. That was much more convenient for a quickie mission than being transwarped halfway across the quadrant just to click another button. Especially when occasionally the mission would time out while in the first loading screen so you would be left halfway across the quadrant with no button to click.

    Add the queue on top of that and it's just become an incredible pointless hassle that I for one don't consider worth it anymore.
  • tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    i very much doubt a brand new L50 with green weapons mk 12 on a T5 or T6 can solo a red alert.

    L60 with full spec tree and rep abilities using purple mk 12s or better... yeah they can solo it.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,573 Arc User
    Hyperbole.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    tigeraries wrote: »
    i very much doubt a brand new L50 with green weapons mk 12 on a T5 or T6 can solo a red alert.

    L60 with full spec tree and rep abilities using purple mk 12s or better... yeah they can solo it.

    You actually can. It takes more work, but it's do-able.

    Honestly, the only thing that might kill you in an undergeared ship is the Unimatrix, and even then you can respawn and fly right back in. The cubes and the Spheres aren't that tough at all. Of course, it will be easier for a more experienced Captain then it would be for a new player.

    It's obviously harder then a 60 with a fully decked out T6, but it's do-able. Thing is, you never have to face this scenario because it always puts you with a team. If you have 3 or more people then the only way to fail a red alert is to do it on purpose.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,744 Arc User
    These alerts are garbage now anyway. Just stop doing them.
    Tza0PEl.png
  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    aranvar wrote: »
    Hello;
    I failed all of those with very rare stuff crafted from main character

    I have to say, you're doing it wrong. I run mk XII gear all the time, mostly blue/purple but sometimes the odd green slips in because Ive forgotten or been too lazy to upgrade. The Borg RA aren't that bad, a little tougher than the old ones, but still easily doable.

    The thing most people seem to forget, is that its NOT only about the gear. Quite often, knowing how your ship works and when to fire off abilities, how to make a solid build, and which BOFF powers to slot(and again when to use them) will make a shitton more difference than the difference between blue XII and gold XIV.
    tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo1_400.gif
    tacofangs wrote: »
    STO isn't canon, and neither are any of the books.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    and also understanding the relative value of various skills. TBR and FaW are GREAT for dealing with targetable torps!
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • admiralkogaradmiralkogar Member Posts: 875 Arc User
    @aranvar
    The game will always fluctuate in difficulty. I would focus on your personal abilities at making teams work because no matter how the game evolves, being good at finding ways to help the other people with you will always be useful. I wouldn't mess with Alerts right now except to increase experience, or remove the queue aspect, as some have already noted.

    I have been defeated fighting Tholians once this week partly because it seemed like right away the Tholians got too close to the respawn point. That is usually a rookie mistake, but I think it can happen to anyone. I tried to aggro them away from there but it didn't work in the time frame available.

    Sure I lost, but I liked the challenge. I don't want to see it made easier because I am happier when challenge can exist. It's also a reason I actually like flying with noobs, since the high DPS players can make things way to easy. Crazy DPS can be worse than easy. Much worse. ;)

    So, to address your concern; Learn how to team; Learn your tools. Keep making changes and test them as you play the Alerts, and take your bruises. Bridge Officers, Duty Officers, Gear selection, and the ship you pick, are still only half the battle.

    Put heart into being a good team mate. If you can, find a good fleet where membership actually tries to help you grow as a player, and as a team. It should probably either be a big fleet or at least one where everyone has the same time frames to play in. Make friends and kill them in PvP matches. Get killed! Find out where you can improve. Help others to learn. If you are using different classes of ship, learn how they work best in unison. If you are all flying cruisers don't all use the same cruiser commands, etc.

    Even if you are 'average' and flying low tier garbage, go with the idea that every time you are in a queue, that you might be the most skilled, and best equipped player there, and be ready to carry the less well off. I don't mean carrying leeches, although you may have an increased risk of it. I mean that whatever you do should make the team better able to win, as a team. Noobs, or not. I'd rather have noobs than I would someone who can 'solo' a mission (no offense to those of you who can). 'Solo' and 'team' are just different ways of coming at the game, and like sharing the experience.

    When you are in an Alert, or other fight, take hits for the team. Your willingness to explode and respawn over and over again can make you an asset. Trust me when I say, as you die over and over again, you are drawing fire away from someone else, and if that someone is lining up for the crucial kill shot on Unimatrix whatever, then 'We win!' and you helped.

    As far as I am concerned the best thing a good team mate does what helps the team best. Like maybe to aggro the enemies off the respawn point. :)

    I've been informed that my posts are to long ... so I'm done. ;)

    Qapla!
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  • admiralkogaradmiralkogar Member Posts: 875 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    @aranvar
    The game will always fluctuate in difficulty. I would focus on your personal abilities at making teams work because no matter how the game evolves, being good at finding ways to help the other people with you will always be useful. I wouldn't mess with Alerts right now except to increase experience, or remove the queue aspect, as some have already noted.

    I have been defeated fighting Tholians once this week partly because it seemed like right away the Tholians got too close to the respawn point. That is usually a rookie mistake, but I think it can happen to anyone. I tried to aggro them away from there but it didn't work in the time frame available.

    Sure I lost, but I liked the challenge. I don't want to see it made easier because I am happier when challenge can exist. It's also a reason I actually like flying with noobs, since the high DPS players can make things way to easy. Crazy DPS can be worse than easy. Much worse. ;)

    So, to address your concern; Learn how to team; Learn your tools. Keep making changes and test them as you play the Alerts, and take your bruises. Bridge Officers, Duty Officers, Gear selection, and the ship you pick, are still only half the battle.

    Put heart into being a good team mate. If you can, find a good fleet where membership actually tries to help you grow as a player, and as a team. It should probably either be a big fleet or at least one where everyone has the same time frames to play in. Make friends and kill them in PvP matches. Get killed! Find out where you can improve. Help others to learn. If you are using different classes of ship, learn how they work best in unison. If you are all flying cruisers don't all use the same cruiser commands, etc.

    Even if you are 'average' and flying low tier garbage, go with the idea that every time you are in a queue, that you might be the most skilled, and best equipped player there, and be ready to carry the less well off. I don't mean carrying leeches, although you may have an increased risk of it. I mean that whatever you do should make the team better able to win, as a team. Noobs, or not. I'd rather have noobs than I would someone who can 'solo' a mission (no offense to those of you who can). 'Solo' and 'team' are just different ways of coming at the game, and like sharing the experience.

    When you are in an Alert, or other fight, take hits for the team. Your willingness to explode and respawn over and over again can make you an asset. Trust me when I say, as you die over and over again, you are drawing fire away from someone else, and if that someone is lining up for the crucial kill shot on Unimatrix whatever, then 'We win!' and you helped.

    As far as I am concerned the best thing a good team mate does what helps the team best. Like maybe to aggro the enemies off the respawn point. :)

    I've been informed that my posts are to long ... so I'm done. ;)

    Qapla!

    Or you know, get good enough to solo the runs...then you help the team. It's not hard.

    Yes! That is fair. Sorry if I implied the other in any way that was insulting. I think it is an achievement to be respected. :)

    But, I'm not that guy right now. Good thing you are here. ;)

    Qapla!
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    They don't need to change anything with the exception of removing the queue system.

    A team of fresh 50's can easily handle a Borg Red Alert. If you get even one moderately experienced player on your team then you'll finish it in under 5 min.

    This is some of the easiest content in the game, if you're asking for it to be made easier then it's time to open the discussion on your build and tactics. Changing the content is simply not needed.

    You have to take into account the average STO player. You, me, some players around here can do the RA solo with our eyes blindfolded.

    I don't do the Borg and Tholian RAs anymore. They're a waste of time, there's no point to them, there's no rewards like even XPs to make it desirable to do. Are veteran players still doing these RAs like mad men like I used to.? If they're like me and not bothering with it anymore due to pointlessness, then yes, those newbies without the gameplay experience and/or gear can get rekt bad.

    I've seen it, you've seen it: Where some poor guy is getting owned by a sphere and probe. Now toss in Borg Cubes, 2 Borg Cubes, or if they didn't know any better, a Tactical Cube.

    With the old RA, a single decent player can carry them. But if none are around and it really is reduced to newbies, it's not quite so easy for them.
    XzRTofz.gif
  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    Are veteran players still doing these RAs like mad men like I used to.?

    I dont know if people are doing them like mad men but I do know people with high dps are doing them still, did 4 Borg RA today and in 2 of them there were people with enough DPS to vaporize cubes in seconds, the unimatrix fared little better
    tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo1_400.gif
    tacofangs wrote: »
    STO isn't canon, and neither are any of the books.
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  • admiralkogaradmiralkogar Member Posts: 875 Arc User
    Just ran one of each, Borg and Tholian, in my T5U K'tinga.

    As I said earlier, I'm only probably average but I didn't blow up, and I don't think anyone else did either. The missions were quick, but not painfully so, and It was possible to get into the 'moment' of each battle and just enjoy it. Teamwork was good, and folks seemed to be using a variety of abilities that went well together. I got boosted a lot, and I always like that. :)

    The worst I got to was about 28% hull remaining when I got a little too deep into a pack of Tholians without support, and I was aggroing. My BC is actually fairly good at surviving PvE though, as long as I remember what I'm doing.

    Everyone had fun, and there was lots of congrats in the chat, which is another thing I like.

    So I'll stick with what I said earlier, with a nod to coldnapalm who reminded me that 'solo' skills don't mean that a player who can go solo isn't also a team player as well.

    Qapla!
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    neomodious wrote: »
    They don't need to change anything with the exception of removing the queue system.

    A team of fresh 50's can easily handle a Borg Red Alert. If you get even one moderately experienced player on your team then you'll finish it in under 5 min.

    This is some of the easiest content in the game, if you're asking for it to be made easier then it's time to open the discussion on your build and tactics. Changing the content is simply not needed.

    I would say they still ought to put the double XP back. It really helps level ships...​​
    Yes, I want that back, too. I can probably deal with the queues, even though I vastly prefer the open-instance type deal we used to have (and many fleet actions and patrols used to use at some point),but if we can't have that... at least the bonus skill points should be back. I am fine if they remove or lower the mark bonus in turn.

    Cryptic, bonus XP for faster Starship Masteries are good for your coffers! It means people are "done" with their ships faster and are in the market for a new ship sooner!
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • nebfabnebfab Member Posts: 672 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    The problem with open instances was that it was basically an unfair contest -- the fastest DPSer who showed up the earliest got most of the XP, and an unlucky fellow who just warped into Tholians 15 seconds before the last ship exploded got almost nothing, and a 30 minutes cooldown. So making them into queues with everyone showing up at the same time and rewarded as a team actually makes sense.

    But without bonus XP there's literally nothing in red alerts that can't be gotten elsewhere faster and easier.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    tigeraries wrote: »
    i very much doubt a brand new L50 with green weapons mk 12 on a T5 or T6 can solo a red alert.

    L60 with full spec tree and rep abilities using purple mk 12s or better... yeah they can solo it.

    I could solo them in season 6, before spec trees and rep abilities even existed.

    The boss used to take a good long while to kill solo back then, but as long as you killed the regen probes before they healed it, it was only a matter of time.
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