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Lukari - Why no Alien creating contest?

Like the topic says, why isn't there ever a contest to create Aliens? I mean, we have the pieces that could have made the Lukari. It's a missed opportunity if you ask me.

There are some people out there with very interesting looking Aliens. Also, if the Dev's wanted, they could change the appearance of the winning Alien to finalize it - making it more unique.

I can probably figure out a few reasons not to ever have a contest of this sort, that is that the outfits are unique fitted. But I find that a little bit weak if that were an excuse.
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Comments

  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,983 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    1. We don't need to have a vote every time the devs add something "official" to the game. That's part of the dev-player relationship.

    2. Even if we did, the end product wouldn't be materially different from a design the devs chose themselves. Voting is just a selection process, not a new creative format with possibilities untapped by professional game development.

    3. What would be the difference is that a certain proportion of people would be able to say "I don't want this!" (the design that eventually wins) at every stage in voting, creating a progressively larger pool of disenfranchised players who have to deal with their preference for something else in addition to the subjective artistic appreciation for the winning design in its own right.

    It's basically a whole heap of extra trouble that should be reserved for very special occasions (ie. community PR where voting is just another way of announcing upcoming content and maintaining interest in the game during slow periods.) It shouldn't be taken as the default way to evaluate future content.


    Now, before I shoot myself in the foot with regard to some Foundry suggestions I've made, I have no issue what-so-ever with devs giving nods to player creations (especially those that aren't mine.) But contests like those held for the Jupiter and Lukari ship aren't the way to regulate what gets in because then the public focus is competition between creations (I want this, not that!), rather than appreciation for talent across the community.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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  • aliensamongusaliensamongus Member Posts: 285 Arc User
    As in anything democratic, there are always those that will lose - that's inevitable in any case. I just found it a missed oppertunity to do it just this one time - to introduce a major/minor species. Especially a species that's non-cannon and very much bound to STO.

    I understand that you wouldn't want every creative process to become democratic. It's not what I was asking for really.

    Maybe this could remain open to those who do want to show some of their Aliens off. I'm wondering if anyone else had this thought when they saw the Lukari or even the Defari, because they're a little simplistic in their creation.

    It's a good thing and a bad thing, good so you can recreate it yourself and relatively bad because it might not be that exclusive.
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  • byozuma#0956 byozuma Member Posts: 502 Arc User
    I think one of the things stopping them from doing an Alien design competition is the Alien template. Because of it there's a chance someone somewhere already made any entries they'd create and that makes for a tricky environment (though somehow I doubt it as likely, most aliens I see are short or tall gangly greys or Voth-crested harlots). There's also the research they'd need to do to make sure they don't accidentally create an alien that's already been featured in something else, like the recent Star Trek movie which had over 50 different ones. "But that was a Star Trek movie, fair game!" Not really, that's not how licensing works. Paramount owns everything in that movie and to use anything from it would need a new licensing deal, and that costs money.

    It's honestly easier to design a new ship than it is a new alien, not that designing a new ship is all that easy to begin with for all the same reasons.
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  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,865 Arc User
    Spoilers. When a new race or map is added for a story episode I like to let the artists surprise me.

    That makes less sense for ships that I will need to spend zen or 2-4 weeks of grinding to get.
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    I would say; Have a competition, but a competition with a prize (New ship/unlocked costume/500'000 dil etc) Not the prize being the prestige to have one's creation incorporated into the game (for the reasons mentioned above...) B)
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,983 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    As in anything democratic, there are always those that will lose - that's inevitable in any case. I just found it a missed oppertunity to do it just this one time - to introduce a major/minor species. Especially a species that's non-cannon and very much bound to STO.

    It would be a missed opportunity for Cryptic to delegate one of their few original species to a community creation. Remember, we are the audience. Even though we have a lot of creative flexibility in our little corners of the game that freedom has to stop once we start dealing with content analogous to what a new show or movie might create. That new "official" content is what we're here for (ultimately).

    If you really want to create your own species, or see what other players have created, check out the Foundry once it comes back online. That's a great format to explore UGC. We don't need to vote in any particular circumstance to see one creation highlighted in a featured episode. It's not fair to Cryptic, the general player base, or other creators. Promoting player content should be through a more systematic approach that makes all UGC more accessible (ex. Foundry search UI update, new feature to directly copy designs from other players). Community voting on community creations for official designs just seems misplaced. Nice idea, in spirit, but in practice it gets us further from where we want to be.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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  • byozuma#0956 byozuma Member Posts: 502 Arc User
    They may own anything we make with the Alien template, but given how the Alien template works they have no clue who made what and when. When we make Alien captains or bridge officers it's not submitted for approval when we click Save, it just saves it and sends us on our merry way to enjoy our creative efforts in the hubs and adventure zones. If someone were to submit a design to a contest who's to stop someone else from coming up demanding their fair cut if said design happens to match one they made? This is what I'm talking about. The only way to prevent such trolling would be to change how Alien designs are saved and lock the designs once saved so you can't change them later to be that someone else.
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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,983 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    If someone were to submit a design to a contest who's to stop someone else from coming up demanding their fair cut if said design happens to match one they made? This is what I'm talking about. The only way to prevent such trolling would be to change how Alien designs are saved and lock the designs once saved so you can't change them later to be that someone else.

    It's pretty unequivocal though if you didn't submit your design to the contest. So what that you've created something similar or identical in the past? You didn't put your name in the hat, nothing can be expected to go your way. This would only be a problem if two users happened to submit identical designs to the same contest, but the probability for that happening (calculate the combinations across all settings) is fantastically low. And even if it did happen, Cryptic could simply say "hey, these two designs belong to the same species. If it wins, both users get a shout out."

    In any case, I wouldn't say this is the big issue with community design contests for Cryptic species.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,557 Arc User
    Personally, I see it happening more like how they did the Lukari Anniversary Ship contest rather than the Design the Enterprise contest. Cryptic releases a bunch of rough concept art sketches for an alien race and we vote for the best one. If the did a Design an Alien contest, then there will be a bunch of people submitting other people's artwork instead of their own. The Lukari Anniversary Ship contest had a bunch of unique entries and one of them could be used for the winner of the Alien Voting contest.
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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,983 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    valoreah wrote: »

    "Fair cut" of what exactly? No player owns anything about anything they create in-game. Cryptic/PWE owns it. Your post doesn't make sense.

    I don't think byozuma was referring to any issue relating to copyright or royalties (which appears to be the track you're on). Previous community contests (ex. Foundry spotlight challenges) have included zen prizes. I believe their concern was that "trolls" could try to claim a cut of said prizes by supposedly arguing that they had created a winning design first. Unlike a Foundry mission, there's no publishing record for a custom costume and they're relatively easy to duplicate.

    But, as elaborated in my last post, that's probably not a significant concern. The basic facts of the contest, the rules of probability, and not caring what trolls have to say are sufficient safeguards if ever such a contest were attempted (which it shouldn't but it's worth keeping that "no" on track.)
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
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  • byozuma#0956 byozuma Member Posts: 502 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    I love your obliviousness Valoreah, it speaks of a belief in the best of the community... the same community that railed against the winner of the Lukari ship contest because their favorites didn't win. The same railing I've seen countless times in countless other contests comprising of both developer and player submitted entries. Do not discount the resolve of the malcontent, if they can find ways to disturb and disrupt they will, and will do so unabashedly. As if there was some crusade they felt the need to wage in 'our' name. I've seen it all too often and I fear I will see it time and again in the future.
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