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Uniting the Factions

daedalus304daedalus304 Member Posts: 1,049 Arc User
YES it's that time of year again, the time where I put up the annual Uniting the Factions thread.

I know some people are aprehensive on this, but I can assure you....we'll always disagree. But for now, let's try to have a rational discussion on this topic, as for the moment, it seems to be the only functional direction of STO.

Big topic in the UtF thread, always boils to PVP, well I can say we'd just do the good old Wargames like we used to do, so that can be closed for the instanced and private matches, but for badlands and such.....hell who knows, in reality we're all just playing the same story, we're just ourselves in a holodeck, eveyone else is fake as far as we're concerned. Perhaps some sort of "raider" or "pirate" debuff or tag would be appropriate durring one of these maps, should you attack another ally that is.

then there's uniqueness, all I can say is we shouldn't be united right off the bat, much like the romulans having a set time to decide which side to join. we should have the united form in the late game, keeps the storylines intact, but it would also allow us to partner up with other factions outside of STF's.

and yes, I know everyone want's to jump on the "NO SHIP SHARING" bandwagon, but since LoR that ship kinda sailed, at this point, we should be able to use our C-Store and other such ships, factions at the moment are pointless aside from the story aspect, and that's solved through being late game union.

and yes, we KNOW, from both in game, and from in prime universe canon that the klingons will merge with the federation, same for the romulans presumably. it's not a matter of if anymore, it's when. and so far the story seems to be winding to that point.
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Comments

  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    Think if, erm *when* they do such a merge cross faction team-ups will finally be possible or still be too hard to be implemented?

    Just asking because one of the last three players in STO that are willing to PvE with me always has to be kdf and we are one man short for lobby…
    animated.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
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  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,602 Arc User
    At the moment it IS NOT a matter of when. There are already numerous threads recently on this. Fact is, 4 factions, 4 tutorials, 4 branches of story before they merge into an Alliance. You can't just erase this 'history' of the STO story. They could allow mission teaming during the latter branches, HOWEVER, there are still plenty of Klingons and Romulans who don't like the Federation AND vice-versa. When only a half-dozen of people ask to merge the factions, you can take this as FACT that the appetite IS NOT there.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • daedalus304daedalus304 Member Posts: 1,049 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    leemwatson wrote: »
    At the moment it IS NOT a matter of when. There are already numerous threads recently on this. Fact is, 4 factions, 4 tutorials, 4 branches of story before they merge into an Alliance. You can't just erase this 'history' of the STO story. They could allow mission teaming during the latter branches, HOWEVER, there are still plenty of Klingons and Romulans who don't like the Federation AND vice-versa. When only a half-dozen of people ask to merge the factions, you can take this as FACT that the appetite IS NOT there.

    from both Star Trek Canon, and in game Canon, it is a matter of When, the fact that we're seeing less and less unique non-fed assets, and more fed assets is an indication of that.

    there are very few people who realistically want a separate faction anymore, people do want separate lineage of races and unique zones though. The forums are a small alignment of such an indication, if you go into the game in ESD (if you can wait for the weird sh*t to die down) and ask that question, you'll see a lot of people call for the unification.

    We've had people since the launch either call for a massive overhaul of the KDF, or a merge to the unity, there was one or the other, we then saw it turn to unity in large numbers before LoR, then LoR dropped and everyone was all for separate factions when they were in the belief that the neglected factions would get their long awaited spa treatment....it never happened of course. people are all for separate factions when they think there's going to be support for them later, but as it stands.....it's never going to happen.

    Unity at this point is the only option available to keep the separate linegage's alive. I mean, even the temporal ships are showing the indication of unity soon. The romulans and klingons have barely been improved over the last few years, and the federation seems to be growing in number. the fact of durring the Kelvin lockbox that only one faction got a lobi ship, and the other two got kits is another indication of this trend.

    also read what I originally posted, the unity wouldn't be until the late game, so as to keep the main story segments intact.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    We already have unity in the storyline. It's all been "faction agnostic" for years. By endgame, all that remains of faction separation is a list of "can't buy that," "can't wear that," "can't fly that," "can't team with that player," etc messages. Those don't contribute anything of value and only serve to marginalize the Romulan and Klingon factions, their content and players by condemning them to an unprofitable niche market.

    It's high time to synch up the gameplay with the storyline by removing the restrictions.

    And the only objections I've ever heard consist of irrational fear of a few extra choices of ship, delusions of continued faction hostility and/or misguided belief that keeping the restrictions up will somehow "force" Cryptic to make new exclusive Klingon ships, despite years of the exact opposite happening (and yes, it's always Klingon fans saying that).
  • sunfranckssunfrancks Member Posts: 3,925 Arc User
    Yes please, my Fed characters want access to my Romulan endgame ships!
    Fed: Eng Lib Borg (Five) Tac Andorian (Shen) Sci Alien/Klingon (Maelrock) KDF:Tac Romulan KDF (Sasha) Tac Klingon (K'dopis)
    Founder, member and former leader to Pride Of The Federation Fleet.
    What I feel after I hear about every decision made since Andre "Mobile Games Generalisimo" Emerson arrived...
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  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    I'm okay with uniting the factions under one roof. I would very much enjoy being able to team up with literally anybody from any faction for any content seamlessly and unobstrusively.

    I should not -- at any point in the game -- have to say to other players who want to play with me, "I would love to do that, but I'm on my KDF character."

    I should not expect them to roll a KDF character to play with me, nor should I be expected to switch to a Fed character to play with them.

    I'm not okay with starships being shared between factions, nor am I okay with Feds getting access to KDF duty officers missions (and vice versa). I'm not okay with vulcans joining the KDF, or gorn joining the Romulan Republic, or romulans joining the Federation. I'm not okay with faction-specific uniforms being shared among all 3-4 factions. I think there should still be some degree of segregation to add a bit of uniqueness and flavor to each faction, but each faction should not be needlessly obstructed simply through playing the game with their friends who might prefer playing other factions.

    Unification of all of the factions is not a bad thing, the idea and concept is not a unique one and it shouldn't be arbitrarily dismissed out of fear. What really matters is how Cryptic makes the choice of executing such a plan, and what it would actually look like in reality, rather than on paper.

    Uniting the factions brings to mind different interpretations to different people who play the game. It's important to keep an open mind and convey feedback of what you would/would not want to see if factions were ever united, rather than dismissing the idea in its entirety, since again... the idea itself can be interpreted and executed in a variety of ways.​​
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  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,602 Arc User
    Yes, in the long term future there is an Alliance that stands the test of time.....however, as I said, there are Klingons and Romulans who don't like the Federation. Despite Cryptic saying the Fed-KDF war wasn't 'sustainable', keeping the factions 'seperate' leaves open avenues for 'internal' disputes and, yes, a 'new' war for when Cryptic need an 'easy' storyline. Uniting factions into one is 'cutting off one's proverbial nose to spite your face' and quite frankly, horrible 'business' sense. Yes, I know it's more work, but you should never back yourself into a corner, which is what the OP is suggesting.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »
    Uniting factions into one is 'cutting off one's proverbial nose to spite your face' and quite frankly, horrible 'business' sense.

    Making it easier for players to play the game with their friends for an MMO is never horrible business sense.​​
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  • dirlettiadirlettia Member Posts: 1,632 Arc User
    I still believe that ships should be kept seperated across the faction only so far as playable ships are concerned. Since Admiralty starts after the story has merged the faction storylines we should be able to claim cross faction ships for Admiralty missions only in my opinion which would alleviate a lot of Admiralty issues on those factions where they are not inclined to make ships of certain types needed by the missions.

    Still waiting to be able to use forum titles
  • daedalus304daedalus304 Member Posts: 1,049 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »
    Yes, in the long term future there is an Alliance that stands the test of time.....however, as I said, there are Klingons and Romulans who don't like the Federation. Despite Cryptic saying the Fed-KDF war wasn't 'sustainable', keeping the factions 'seperate' leaves open avenues for 'internal' disputes and, yes, a 'new' war for when Cryptic need an 'easy' storyline. Uniting factions into one is 'cutting off one's proverbial nose to spite your face' and quite frankly, horrible 'business' sense. Yes, I know it's more work, but you should never back yourself into a corner, which is what the OP is suggesting.

    like others have stated, Cryptic already backed themselves into said corner.

    Internal disputes are always going to be possible, even with the united factions. and Cryptic laid out the foundation for easy storylines with the temporal agency involvement. Time travel is the end all be all for every form of story content.

    Late game unification (NOT total unification from the begining) is not going to hamper the game.

    and yes....there are SOME MINOR amounts of klingons and romulans who don't like the federation, but the point is, Cryptic is already declining the support for the other factions, and now they've shown a new faction is just (as others have said) a new federation tutorial.

    the KDF hasn't been touched up in any meaningful way in years, the romulans have pretty much stagnated with the exception of them ironically getting more ships than the klingons in the last few years.

    Unification is happening, there's no way to avoid it if STO is to survive.
  • garaks31garaks31 Member Posts: 2,845 Arc User
    there are rumors that kdf and fed fleets will merge in same armada
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »
    Yes, in the long term future there is an Alliance that stands the test of time.....however, as I said, there are Klingons and Romulans who don't like the Federation. Despite Cryptic saying the Fed-KDF war wasn't 'sustainable', keeping the factions 'seperate' leaves open avenues for 'internal' disputes and, yes, a 'new' war for when Cryptic need an 'easy' storyline. Uniting factions into one is 'cutting off one's proverbial nose to spite your face' and quite frankly, horrible 'business' sense. Yes, I know it's more work, but you should never back yourself into a corner, which is what the OP is suggesting.
    Another war between the player factions is the exact opposite of an "easy" storyline. It would require making separate missions for factions again which is something they've made quite clear isn't in the books. It's never going to happen.
  • autumnturningautumnturning Member Posts: 743 Arc User
  • vegeta50024vegeta50024 Member Posts: 2,336 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    leemwatson wrote: »
    At the moment it IS NOT a matter of when. There are already numerous threads recently on this. Fact is, 4 factions, 4 tutorials, 4 branches of story before they merge into an Alliance. You can't just erase this 'history' of the STO story. They could allow mission teaming during the latter branches, HOWEVER, there are still plenty of Klingons and Romulans who don't like the Federation AND vice-versa. When only a half-dozen of people ask to merge the factions, you can take this as FACT that the appetite IS NOT there.

    There aren't "FOur factions" there are two factions, a Half Faction, and an alternate tutorial.

    and it's too much work for the team Cryptic has, and that's before they added to the workload by adding two more platforms that aren't cross-compatible.

    Fact: from day one, Cryptic's struggled to handle TWO factions. They added Legacy of Romulus and increased that to two-and-a-half just so that Fed teams could have battlecloaks in PvP-a mode that cryptic put zero effort into completing and demonstrated they can't manage effectively.

    What makes up a faction may have changed over time from Cryptic's perspective.

    When they released the Klingons along side Starfleet at launch, All Klingons had was leveling through PvP if I remember reading right. It wasn't until they started releasing story and PvE stuff that the Klingons could do besides PvP. They had their own ships, own bases and beam in effects and once they got their own storyline, that made them a faction.

    When LoR launched, in order to facilitate the introduction of a Romulan playable faction into the game & appease the Klingons who were missing what the Federation had (the chance to start from level 1), they revamped the tutorial and gave them additional missions. The Romulans got their own beam in effects, their own tutorial and mission storyline, their own hubs and allowed them to ally with one of the two bigger factions so they could also access those facilities. The only way they weren't 100% their own faction was the whole alliance system which was due to cryptic wanting to keep the game's PvP tied to Red vs. Blue or a 2 faction system.

    When they finally release a fourth group to play as, what it takes to make a faction truly a faction must have shifted. Until the end of the TOS tutorial & initial storyline, despite being Federation, they can't join fleets right away and the game treats them as though they are a different faction by the hail whenever they approach ESD. For the purposes of gameplay, they come with their own beam effects, a unique ship and a partial story that makes them distinct from the 25th century Federation. However in regards to the rest of the game, they are treated as Federation since that's what they technically are.

    Clearly what makes up a faction today is the unique starting experience and animation effects. anything else is just the icing if they want to add it.
    Integration is absolutely necessary at this point because cryptic can't do what they've advertised. They can't handle, manage, and grow more than a single faction game, just as they can't handle, manage, or balance modes like PvP, or Exploration.

    These things are simply beyond the company's ability to provide.

    They don't have the funding, the management, manpower, drip-drop. Pick your reason-they only ended the KDF/Federation conflict because they couldn't manage it.

    I mean, Geko said it himself- they ended it so that they were "...no longer forced to work on faction specific material for the Klingons."

    This was at the end of a two year period with no faction specific material for KDF being worked on. (apparently there really wasn't a LOT of forcing, the Tutorial was done by a handful of staffers off-the-books on their own time and added to bulk out the Legacy of Romulus release via a patch note two weeks after release day).

    Mainly the issue is that they're catering to Starfleet more than the other two factions because of the fact that Starfleet is what Star Trek has always gone with as the sole focus of any series. We had some exploration of Klingons and whatnot throughout Star Trek, but not once has any series ever focused in on the Klingons solely or the Romulans or any other group.

    As for PvP, it's a matter of trying to figure out some way to make it viable & balanced without a massive nerf to everyone.

    Exploration is another beast that's hard to tackle because they're trying to balance giving people a sense of discovering the unknown with the making of something that won't make it feel like its repetitive. The Genesis engine failed because after a while it just became repetitive after a while and downright stupid in certain enemy factions (Third Dynasty Borg).

    One reason why I think they ended the KDF-Federation conflict is because by the time New Romulus came into focus, The Klingons and the Federation put aside a lot of the conflict already with the Borg. A conflict only started because the Iconians wanted them to be waging war so they would be easier to conquer, so they used the Undine to spark it. A formal alliance venture got started with the Iconian Gateway and the Discovery of the Solanae Sphere, and the push by the Iconians to try and separate the alliance not only made it stronger, but also ceased hostilities moving forward in the storyline.

    I think it takes approximately 2 months (maybe longer) for them to build a story from idea to a finished product, especially since they have voice actors for the missions now. Every mission they build is towards the 3 major factions from "Echoes of Light" and this means building new map locations and assets. If they didn't have to build new assets and crank out stories, they could probably cut down the time it takes to release an episode but it would be a boring one.

    While I would love to see more faction specific episodes, that would be asking a lot since you can't just make an episode for one faction without leaving the other factions twiddling their thumbs for something to do. That's why we have faction agnostic episodes.
    It is simple. Unity is going to happen sooner rather than later, because the company can't sustain, grow, or maintain faction specific material, can't develop existing factions and can't develop new ones beyond a short tutorial and a thin list of c-store ships. Agents of Yesterday took longer (eighteen months) than Legacy of Romulus (eight months) to complete-with a larger team that was minus some key players that have departed Cryptic studios for places that can afford them.
    That's the management issue.

    It took 3 years for KDF to get 1-20 tutorial, and two years (between release of the Bortasque bundle and the next c-store ship for Klingons) to get a new entry in the C-store at all, and that one got delayed an additional 3 months due to lack of personnel. (again, this is Geko's statement regarding the delay of what we would learn was the Mogh when it released three months after being publicly cancelled.)

    that's the budget/manpower issue.

    Cryptic only HAD multiple factions because of the existence of PvP. PvP has been on a plunge from 'minority with a strong community of players' to 'declining population so bitter with the company they advise their IRL friends to play literally anything else.'

    time to put it to bed. Cryptic can't handle PvP, they don't comprehend balance on any of the standard three measures necessary to pit one player against another and have a fun game.

    1. Don't understand Powers balancing.
    2. don't understand FACTION balancing-which is what most games use if they don't balance powers.
    3. don't understand SCENARIO balancing. That is, an objective algorithm that lets players with non-identical forces engage in a match that has an equal chance of winning minus actual player skill. Cryptic can't do this, they don't have the ability to do it-mainly because of money, time, and manpower problems.


    teh package of work in the proposal that got Cryptic the License, is too big for Cryptic Studios to manage and too complex for a team of their size and quality to achieve in a reasonable amount of time.

    One of the major problems with creating any new faction is that they would have to make sure that they have a way to properly integrate them into the storyline. When LoR came about, it was easy at the time to fold them into the story since they sowed the seeds with Season 7, and the story wasn't 100% built yet on any sort of alliance. With TOS, it made sense that the only way they could integrate them into the story was to make them a Temporal Agent and dump them into 2409.

    To make a faction like the Cardassians, they would have to find a way to integrate them into the story that makes sense. In the lore of STO from pre-2409, the cardassians are essentially reduced to a planetary defense force while they reform into a democratic power that values everything besides the military. While they would have an enemy to conflict with in the Alpha Quadrant, we literally have nothing to really say what their motive to join the rest of the storyline would be. You also have to factor in that the Keldon and the Galor are now lock box ships so they would have to get creative with how to solve this and not alienate people who already bought prior ships.

    Another choice I see people say is making the Borg cooperative, which almost happened. You would have to tie them out of the storyline pre-Surface Tension mainly due to the fact that they don't come into the game an ally until the Delta Quadrant arc.

    Then there's the fact that you have all these special ship packs that are clearly tied to the 3 factions already in the game. They could go the route Geko stated in the past and just start them level 50, but some people might like starting from level one.

    LoR had a lot that came out in a short amount of time compared to AoY simply because they probably had the storyline down prior to Season 7 being announced.

    PvP really isn't something that Cryptic wants to do at the present time. It becomes clear in any interview they do that they only do things they want to have done first because they schedule priority on it. Building the story take priority over anything because without an ongoing story, what else is there to look forward to?

    In the end, I'm all for unity if it means we can team up with any character regardless of factional allegiance, but that's where I would draw the line. Let them keep what makes them a faction. Just let them team up for the sake of the story.



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  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,602 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    *SIGHS* I've already said to allow teaming across missions to allow for the 'current' alliance missions. I'm against merging the factions into one completely!
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • staq16staq16 Member Posts: 1,181 Arc User
    there are very few people who realistically want a separate faction anymore, people do want separate lineage of races and unique zones though. The forums are a small alignment of such an indication, if you go into the game in ESD (if you can wait for the weird sh*t to die down) and ask that question, you'll see a lot of people call for the unification.

    Source for that, please? I mean as in some actual research, rather than texas sharpshooter quoting of forum posts?

    Oh, right, there isn't any, because you don't have access to Cryptic's player metrics. Here's a thought; perhaps a majority of STO players actually like factional themes, and play Klingons or Romulans for a change. Which is why Lockbox ships don't rule ESD, even though they're barely any more expensive than C-store numbers.

    Equally, look at behavior; despite Klingon and Romulan alts making up "only" 30% of the game (as at the 5-year infographic) Cryptic felt it was worthwhile developing Klink/Rom Command Cruisers, Pilot Escorts, Flagships, iconic ships... with the icing being the Kelvin Timeline ships. The D4X has an utterly unique vectored thrust animation set that does not speak of a throwaway design. That, to me, suggests that Klink/Rom sales *do* account for a significant portion of their income, or we'd have seen much more in the way of cross-factional C-store ships and trait boxes.

    From a game background perspective, multiple factions adds depth to the game-verse, even if it's only different takes on the same events; from a sales perspective, it encourages players to roll extra alts, as well as spending extra money, which some people will do. As patrickngo has often noted, the hardcore fanbase of Klinks/Roms is probably... well, a hardcore base which is far more likely to buy everything available.

    For whatever reason, I don't personally think Cryptic are quite so mindlessly sales-motivated as some would believe; while what constitutes the "right" level of immersion is a very subjective thing, the way the game is being written and developed suggests that the management view is that it's not zero.

  • gaalomgaalom Member Posts: 536 Arc User
    Here we go again what a shocker...
    Op no if that is not clear enough, I enjoy player factions at odds with each other, this is why I left certain mmorpgs in past year. Mainly because they did exactly what you are suggesting. You know what happens when the factions unite? It gets boring, dull, and bland. I enjoy my klingon and I have no interest in seeing the Klingon Empire become the feds pet targ.
  • daedalus304daedalus304 Member Posts: 1,049 Arc User
    staq16 wrote: »
    there are very few people who realistically want a separate faction anymore, people do want separate lineage of races and unique zones though. The forums are a small alignment of such an indication, if you go into the game in ESD (if you can wait for the weird sh*t to die down) and ask that question, you'll see a lot of people call for the unification.

    Source for that, please? I mean as in some actual research, rather than texas sharpshooter quoting of forum posts?

    Oh, right, there isn't any, because you don't have access to Cryptic's player metrics. Here's a thought; perhaps a majority of STO players actually like factional themes, and play Klingons or Romulans for a change. Which is why Lockbox ships don't rule ESD, even though they're barely any more expensive than C-store numbers.

    Equally, look at behavior; despite Klingon and Romulan alts making up "only" 30% of the game (as at the 5-year infographic) Cryptic felt it was worthwhile developing Klink/Rom Command Cruisers, Pilot Escorts, Flagships, iconic ships... with the icing being the Kelvin Timeline ships. The D4X has an utterly unique vectored thrust animation set that does not speak of a throwaway design. That, to me, suggests that Klink/Rom sales *do* account for a significant portion of their income, or we'd have seen much more in the way of cross-factional C-store ships and trait boxes.

    From a game background perspective, multiple factions adds depth to the game-verse, even if it's only different takes on the same events; from a sales perspective, it encourages players to roll extra alts, as well as spending extra money, which some people will do. As patrickngo has often noted, the hardcore fanbase of Klinks/Roms is probably... well, a hardcore base which is far more likely to buy everything available.

    For whatever reason, I don't personally think Cryptic are quite so mindlessly sales-motivated as some would believe; while what constitutes the "right" level of immersion is a very subjective thing, the way the game is being written and developed suggests that the management view is that it's not zero.

    while I don't have a solid source, I can say the majority of people, when asked, do Agree with uniting the factions, albeit their definitions of such are different.

    and
    staq16 wrote: »
    Which is why Lockbox ships don't rule ESD, even though they're barely any more expensive than C-store numbers.

    I take it you've only been to ESD sparringly? last I checked over the last two weeks, Lockbox ships have been in the higher numbers than C-Store ships, a few scimitars here and there, a few romulan ships here and there, but fed ships are low, and a lot more lockbox ships rule ESD.
    staq16 wrote: »
    Equally, look at behavior; despite Klingon and Romulan alts making up "only" 30% of the game (as at the 5-year infographic) Cryptic felt it was worthwhile developing Klink/Rom Command Cruisers, Pilot Escorts, Flagships, iconic ships... with the icing being the Kelvin Timeline ships. The D4X has an utterly unique vectored thrust animation set that does not speak of a throwaway design. That, to me, suggests that Klink/Rom sales *do* account for a significant portion of their income, or we'd have seen much more in the way of cross-factional C-store ships and trait boxes.

    The Kelvin timeline ships, are not as much of a deal seal as you'd like to believe, they've almost nothing to do with the full sales representation, with the Fed ships being extremely EXTREMELY more popular, and numerous, while the Klingon bird of prey comes a close second, and the romulan being dead last as one of the rarest seen, rarest used, and least noted of the lockbox ships, though they are coveted by many, not many want to drop any kind of money on a ship. even when the lockbox was at its height, the romulan intel carrier was the least seen of all of the ships.

    of the flagships, the romulan scimitars were the most requested ship at LoR launch, and had one of the most successful sales runs in STO history (until T6), the bortas was given for free, along with the oddy when they were initially revealed/launched. and since it was one of the few....extremely few NEW klingon ships added at the time, it sold relatively well when the bundle came out years ago.....then T6 dropped, and we note how many more romulans are flying the new ships, compared to klingons. It's not hard, to form these conclusions, from the start of the game, to now we can see the pattern of ebb and flow from the half factions.

    that 5-year info-graphic, like most of STO's info-graphic, doesn't account for alts, or ACTIVE playing factions as well as it should. 30% of the game, 30% of active players with low chances of buying the ships, WOULD make a significant amount of their income....but it's not 30%, it's just about 27%, and all of that is just listing chars that have been made, not even active accounts. it's significantly lower than most would like to admit. in short, it really doesn't make up enough income to justify the costs, which is probably why we are seeing the temporal ships.
    staq16 wrote: »
    From a game background perspective, multiple factions adds depth to the game-verse, even if it's only different takes on the same events; from a sales perspective, it encourages players to roll extra alts, as well as spending extra money, which some people will do. As patrickngo has often noted, the hardcore fanbase of Klinks/Roms is probably... well, a hardcore base which is far more likely to buy everything available.

    ok, now keep this in mind, which is more likely to have more sales? a few hardcore fans, or the entire game? which has a higher chance of actually buying the C-Store ships? the very niche? or the very many? I'm not saying I'd like for every ship to be available to all factions (though LoR did kinda TRIBBLE the pooch on that), but many new ships, made for a unified faction would probably be more lucrative.

    multiple factions don't add depth, multiple story lines do, which is even more acceptable.

    Merging the factions, LATE GAME, would solve more issues than keeping them around, draining resources and letting them wither away. those few who'd roll alts AND spend money, aren't even close to justify the costs of keeping the factions around.


    you're welcome to do your own research into the amount of players who'd be into a faction merge, and I'll do the same, from strawpolls (outside of the forum, the forums are not even close to indicative of the player base, and ya know...rules) to several other forms, I'll gather some backed evidence for this.

  • daedalus304daedalus304 Member Posts: 1,049 Arc User
    gaalom wrote: »
    Here we go again what a shocker...
    Op no if that is not clear enough, I enjoy player factions at odds with each other, this is why I left certain mmorpgs in past year. Mainly because they did exactly what you are suggesting. You know what happens when the factions unite? It gets boring, dull, and bland. I enjoy my klingon and I have no interest in seeing the Klingon Empire become the feds pet targ.

    the other games with factions, I assume they had good PVP? which would explain why those games got boring, dull, and bland. But STO.....apart from a few unique stories here and there, there's no use for separate factions, let alone factions which isolate players to dwindling numbers. you'd still play your klingon, you'd still have your ships. and you'd still play those unique stories if the plan I put up there goes through.

    the only difference is no more restrictions on teaming up, no more isolating players to factions which either have huge numbers of end game players and beginners, or not enough players for the the latter. the federation has both, in comfortable numbers, as well as many people in the middle.

    The Klingon empire, is going to be part of the Federation, sooner rather than later if Star Trek canon is to be taken to heart.
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  • gaalomgaalom Member Posts: 536 Arc User
    Well not entirely pvp based. I will give you an example a faction my toon belonged to had superb lore, so I enjoyed playing that character, but upon this unite everything there was no point to the game anymore. Everything was exactly the same it did not matter what story they came out with, because you knew how it was going to end up before you even did the content.

    Patrickngo's point is well taken in the end it always comes down to resources. This is why I was surprised when LOR was announced, and this is why I am even more surprised at the amount of feds calling for a new playable faction. When we have three, and the devs have already shown they lack the ability to develop the three perspectives.

    My final point is yea its not perfect right now but you can endure, and enjoy the game right now. You can enjoy some uniqueness from your chosen faction.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    staq16 wrote: »
    there are very few people who realistically want a separate faction anymore, people do want separate lineage of races and unique zones though. The forums are a small alignment of such an indication, if you go into the game in ESD (if you can wait for the weird sh*t to die down) and ask that question, you'll see a lot of people call for the unification.

    Source for that, please? I mean as in some actual research, rather than texas sharpshooter quoting of forum posts?

    Oh, right, there isn't any, because you don't have access to Cryptic's player metrics. Here's a thought; perhaps a majority of STO players actually like factional themes, and play Klingons or Romulans for a change. Which is why Lockbox ships don't rule ESD, even though they're barely any more expensive than C-store numbers.
    Which is logically irrelevant, because players who want to fly a Fed ship will fly a Fed ship, players who want to fly a Klingon ship will fly a Klingon ship and so on. It doesn't matter to them if the long list of other ships they're allowed to fly is increased a bit.

    See also, "irrational fear of a few extra choices of ship."
    From a game background perspective, multiple factions adds depth to the game-verse, even if it's only different takes on the same events; from a sales perspective, it encourages players to roll extra alts, as well as spending extra money, which some people will do. As patrickngo has often noted, the hardcore fanbase of Klinks/Roms is probably... well, a hardcore base which is far more likely to buy everything available.
    Bull. From a storyline perspective we don't even have factions, we have origin stories. And that's good. We could have a lot more if they didn't come with the extra baggage. The TOS origin was very well implemented here.

    Giving players free character slots encourages them to roll extra alts. Restricting their ability to use their already-purchased items only encourages them to stick to the faction they can use their stuff on.

    Making it easier to buy what you want encourages players to spend extra money.
  • daedalus304daedalus304 Member Posts: 1,049 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    From a game background perspective, multiple factions adds depth to the game-verse, even if it's only different takes on the same events; from a sales perspective, it encourages players to roll extra alts, as well as spending extra money, which some people will do. As patrickngo has often noted, the hardcore fanbase of Klinks/Roms is probably... well, a hardcore base which is far more likely to buy everything available.
    Bull. From a storyline perspective we don't even have factions, we have origin stories. And that's good. We could have a lot more if they didn't come with the extra baggage. The TOS origin was very well implemented here.

    Giving players free character slots encourages them to roll extra alts. Restricting their ability to use their already-purchased items only encourages them to stick to the faction they can use their stuff on.

    Making it easier to buy what you want encourages players to spend extra money.

    pretty much this, there's not much right now which actually distinguishes the factions, there's no PVP (practically none at least) for the factions, there's no real difference other than some old now outdated story, which has since been discontinued because one side wasn't popular enough to keep devoting resources to.

    origin stories are the best way to describe this, and merging the factions won't get rid of them. like in WoW there's a different origin quest line for most races.

    there's no depth to factions since there's no factions. just one faction, a single half faction, and an alternate race for all.
  • gaalomgaalom Member Posts: 536 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    Words from Martock "by bringing aliens into our families we risk losing our identity as klingons" We are klingons worf we do not embrace other cultures we conquer them" My point by these two quotes is the Klingon faction is 100 percent unique, however the devs have chosen to ignore Klingon lore in order to bring forth a generic view for all, thus conserving what resources they have. Do not try to stand there and say the Klingon Empire is the same as the rest, it is not. To further my point this recent series is a good example. A example where it is made plain that these Lukari are weak, and would have made for a good conquest to take what resources they had. Instead they chose a thin reply of we will just make you a protectorate if you are worthy.
  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    take yer united factions and shove em where the sun dont shine
    tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo1_400.gif
    tacofangs wrote: »
    STO isn't canon, and neither are any of the books.
  • daedalus304daedalus304 Member Posts: 1,049 Arc User
    gaalom wrote: »
    Words from Martock "by bringing aliens into our families we risk losing our identity as klingons" We are klingons worf we do not embrace other cultures we conquer them" My point by these two quotes is the Klingon faction is 100 percent unique, however the devs have chosen to ignore Klingon lore in order to bring forth a generic view for all, thus conserving what resources they have. Do not try to stand there and say the Klingon Empire is the same as the rest, it is not. To further my point this recent series is a good example. A example where it is made plain that these Lukari are weak, and would have made for a good conquest to take what resources they had. Instead they chose a thin reply of we will just make you a protectorate if you are worthy.

    ah hell, DS9 screwed that pooch, as did most of TNG, and some of the TMP movies. and hell STO did the same thing, naussicans, gorn, and a whole manner of other species all fighting with the KDF.

    Cryptic is accellerating the timeframe needed to unite the factions, the fact that the klingons even accepted ROMULANS into their ranks speaks volumes. we KNOW from standard Star Trek lore that the klingons eventually become part of the federation, there's no way to deny this unless you want to do the askew future with the kelvin incursion.

    there is no uniqueness anymore, each factions most unique aspects have been pretty much given to each other, the only thing we've got is a slight origin story shape up. but that's it.
  • ikonn#1068 ikonn Member Posts: 1,451 Arc User
    I am all for cross-faction teaming, but definitely against "essentially" merging the factions. Fed and KDF fleets/armadas should remain as they are... separate entities.

    Most STFs already allow cross-faction queues, which is great. I do support allowing cross-faction premade teams with regards to grouping up for things like patrols, storyline missions (where applicable), Red Alerts, etc. Since the Federation and the Empire are supposed to be allies now, I could see that happening.
    -AoP- Warrior's Blood (KDF Armada) / -AoP- Qu' raD qulbo'Degh / -AoP- Project Phoenix
    Join Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010
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