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Can Anyone Explain the Exchange?!?!?

I've been playing around with the Exchange for a while now - perhaps a couple of months, and thought I'd started to grasp how things worked (though I know I've made some stupid errors - accidently sold for below cost) as well as managed to build up a bit of an EC balance. In the last week or so however things have gone really really weird so I was hoping to pick the collective wisdom of more knowledgeable folk.

I mostly lurk in the commodities market as while it offers only modest profit it has, at least in the past, offered reasonable turnover. I mostly buy from fleet or other discount vendors, list at an Exchange, then pocket part of the difference between regular and discounted prices - or on rare occasion make a 'killing' because the only people who've listed a stack want hundreds of thousands for something worth 20-200 thousand EC and folk still buy the convenient Exchange option in favour of the intelligent choice. Anyhow this past week there seems to have been something of a trade war in a couple of commodity lines with items being relisted every hour or perhaps even less by two or three players determined to have their listing as the cheapest option. At the same time other lines such as Industrial Replicator crashed for no reason and are now being sold for as little as two-thirds the discount price i.e. at a significant loss, and last time I looked the listings for that had grown to about 8 pages! As far as I can see pretty much all commodities are now being listed on the Exchange for less than it's possible to buy them for even when using a discount vendor, and possibly even less than a Ferengi could buy them for from a discount vendor. I can understand why players might flood the Exchange with stacks of at cost commodities, even with stacks of at Ferengi cost commodities, but not with loss making listings. I know I've stocked up on a few of the discounted stacks but I only have so much inventory space. Queerly there doesn't seem to have been a rush to purchase them, or if people are buying the stacks they're being replaced by other loss making stacks. Needless to say I'm rather confused!!! Anyone have any explanations?
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  • alethkiraenalethkiraen Member Posts: 306 Arc User
    Commodities used to be used in fleet projects but as of the latest update that is no longer the case, so people are dumping stockpiles.
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  • lapprenticellapprenticel Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    People purchased stacks of overpriced stuff for Fleet Projects? Really? :o Frankly that never crossed my mind - if ever I needed to dump commodities into a project I went to the relevant discount vendor and stood there buying and dumping the resources as required. Well if I do have a few too many worthless resources now I guess I'd better hope to get some helpful trade X for EC type doff missions :)

    Thanks for the quick response by the way.
  • edrogenedrogen Member Posts: 202 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    commodities became worthless with the fleet change. So basically, if you have some on hand...you are screwed. They did well before the update as fleets scrambled to get projects filled.

    ^This^
    The compelling reason to buy commodities from *anywhere* is now gone.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    edrogen wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    commodities became worthless with the fleet change. So basically, if you have some on hand...you are screwed. They did well before the update as fleets scrambled to get projects filled.

    ^This^
    The compelling reason to buy commodities from *anywhere* is now gone.
    Commodities still have their place in the game. But only in small stacks like 10 or less for doffing missions. And yes, gone are the days of buying thousands for a single fleet project.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • turbomagnusturbomagnus Member Posts: 3,479 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    edrogen wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    commodities became worthless with the fleet change. So basically, if you have some on hand...you are screwed. They did well before the update as fleets scrambled to get projects filled.

    ^This^
    The compelling reason to buy commodities from *anywhere* is now gone.
    Commodities still have their place in the game. But only in small stacks like 10 or less for doffing missions. And yes, gone are the days of buying thousands for a single fleet project.

    Only certain commodities; Provisions, Medical Supplies, Shield Generators, Warp Coils, Self Sealing Stem Bolts (Which are all needed for the Colonization Chains); basically, half the commodities (Weather Control Systems, Seismic Stabilizers for examples) now are rather pointless since there are no DOff Assignments for which they are used...
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
    ^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edrogen wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    commodities became worthless with the fleet change. So basically, if you have some on hand...you are screwed. They did well before the update as fleets scrambled to get projects filled.
    ^This^
    The compelling reason to buy commodities from *anywhere* is now gone.
    Commodities still have their place in the game. But only in small stacks like 10 or less for doffing missions. And yes, gone are the days of buying thousands for a single fleet project.
    Only certain commodities; Provisions, Medical Supplies, Shield Generators, Warp Coils, Self Sealing Stem Bolts (Which are all needed for the Colonization Chains); basically, half the commodities (Weather Control Systems, Seismic Stabilizers for examples) now are rather pointless since there are no DOff Assignments for which they are used...
    Those are used for other doff assignments. There's one for terraforming or something that gives decent CxP.
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  • turbomagnusturbomagnus Member Posts: 3,479 Arc User
    True, but there are other DOff assignments that give out decent CXP without needing commodities (the two Exploration ones in Sphere Allied Zone; most of the ones in the Undine Battlezone; once you progress to a certain point in the 'Shadows of the Jem'hadar' chain, there's a good Exploration one there; and so on), which is why I believe there's not much point in them. When we still had exploration clusters and you might come across a planet needing them, it was different.
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
    ^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    True, but there are other DOff assignments that give out decent CXP without needing commodities (the two Exploration ones in Sphere Allied Zone; most of the ones in the Undine Battlezone; once you progress to a certain point in the 'Shadows of the Jem'hadar' chain, there's a good Exploration one there; and so on), which is why I believe there's not much point in them. When we still had exploration clusters and you might come across a planet needing them, it was different.
    those were only good when you could get gear from them. :p
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    Simple...


    It's a place where one can buy and sell items in the game.







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    STO Member since February 2009.
    I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
    Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,559 Arc User
    People purchased stacks of overpriced stuff for Fleet Projects? Really? :o
    Check the price of synthale on the Exchange some time. Keep in mind that you can make it yourself, with the Replicator, for 20 EC.

    I don't understand why people buy things like that - but they do.​​
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  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    People purchased stacks of overpriced stuff for Fleet Projects? Really? :o
    Check the price of synthale on the Exchange some time. Keep in mind that you can make it yourself, with the Replicator, for 20 EC.

    I don't understand why people buy things like that - but they do.

    I don't understand why people buy the things they do, either. But I am thankful that they do, and for the price I list them for.​​
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  • daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    iconians wrote: »
    jonsills wrote: »
    People purchased stacks of overpriced stuff for Fleet Projects? Really? :o
    Check the price of synthale on the Exchange some time. Keep in mind that you can make it yourself, with the Replicator, for 20 EC.

    I don't understand why people buy things like that - but they do.

    I don't understand why people buy the things they do, either. But I am thankful that they do, and for the price I list them for.​​

    More EC's than Brains...

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    STO Member since February 2009.
    I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
    Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
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  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,865 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    People purchased stacks of overpriced stuff for Fleet Projects? Really? :o
    Check the price of synthale on the Exchange some time. Keep in mind that you can make it yourself, with the Replicator, for 20 EC.

    I don't understand why people buy things like that - but they do.​​

    Can KDF make synthale? Fed can't make bloodwine and I think it's used in the bartending doff chain.

    I can see why people buy some other things for over list price though -- say you're at Drozena station and need a tribble to make a comet cocktail tribble. The Exchange is a lot easier than waiting for a loot drop. Or you need a training manual and don't want to go through a half-dozen map transitions and 10 minutes of time to get to Earth Space Dock.


    People purchased stacks of overpriced stuff for Fleet Projects? Really? :o Frankly that never crossed my mind - if ever I needed to dump commodities into a project I went to the relevant discount vendor and stood there buying and dumping the resources as required. Well if I do have a few too many worthless resources now I guess I'd better hope to get some helpful trade X for EC type doff missions :)

    Thanks for the quick response by the way.

    So you were trading in commodities without understanding why people bought them?

    If you'd known, you might have paid attention to the several forum threads here that warned you in advance about fleet projects no longer needing them. That would have told you to sell off your stock.

    This is an example of why I warn people not to trade stocks in the real world. You don't have all of the information you need for it to be more than gambling. Buy and hold index funds, get rich slowly.

  • bobs1111bobs1111 Member Posts: 471 Arc User
    Now you understand how it works.

    Go and figure out what people are using and trade that. Pay attention to what is in fact going on in the game. If a new lockbox is coming out, as it just did. Pay attention to what is coming that people may want. For instance this box has a pretty solid weapon type that seems popular. So that means lots of people upgrading weapons. So weapon upgrades, weapon tech, and the crafting materials to make more weapon tech would likely get a bump for a few days after. Same thing happens when a new mission hits with new gear. So take a look at the feature mission item dates... when a new console or weapon comes along that seems like it will be popular. You can speculate on things like Z-particles / Rubidium / upgrade tech / boosters ect. When an event comes a long... consider stacking up on things that will be dropping in great supply and be cheap. (things like anniversary stuff... winter stuff... summer stuff, or the smaller events that feature things specific ques like CE which is a great time to stock up on rad particles for instance.)

    STO is a very easy game to get rich in... simply play the game, pay attention to what you need to use, and then use the exchange to either stock up when things are cheap, or predict spikes. Just like real life accept losses cost you nothing and seed money is free.
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,573 Arc User
    If you need to sell them to an NPC Vendor, go to the Ground Supplies Vendor in the Voth Ground Battlezone HQ. You will get the best vendor price to dump them.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • dumas13dumas13 Member Posts: 281 Arc User
    bobs1111 wrote: »
    Now you understand how it works.

    Go and figure out what people are using and trade that. Pay attention to what is in fact going on in the game. If a new lockbox is coming out, as it just did. Pay attention to what is coming that people may want. For instance this box has a pretty solid weapon type that seems popular. So that means lots of people upgrading weapons. So weapon upgrades, weapon tech, and the crafting materials to make more weapon tech would likely get a bump for a few days after. Same thing happens when a new mission hits with new gear. So take a look at the feature mission item dates... when a new console or weapon comes along that seems like it will be popular. You can speculate on things like Z-particles / Rubidium / upgrade tech / boosters ect. When an event comes a long... consider stacking up on things that will be dropping in great supply and be cheap. (things like anniversary stuff... winter stuff... summer stuff, or the smaller events that feature things specific ques like CE which is a great time to stock up on rad particles for instance.)

    STO is a very easy game to get rich in... simply play the game, pay attention to what you need to use, and then use the exchange to either stock up when things are cheap, or predict spikes. Just like real life accept losses cost you nothing and seed money is free.

    There's another reason to start selling ground gear upgrades: Kit frames and modules can be upgraded now. People will be wanting to get their favourite bits to Mk XIV, possibly chasing rarity upgrades for non-unique modules. There'll probably be a big bump for all upgrades the next time we get an upgrade weekend, too.

    So, yeah. Keep an eye on the game news for upcoming events and changes that are likely to make players consume certain items.
  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 4,115 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    People purchased stacks of overpriced stuff for Fleet Projects? Really? :o
    Check the price of synthale on the Exchange some time. Keep in mind that you can make it yourself, with the Replicator, for 20 EC.

    I don't understand why people buy things like that - but they do.​​

    Because they don't bother to check out the tools the game has for getting/creating cheap items. They start playing - see stuff of the Exchange, and figure that any item on there MUST be a drop (IE no one would put something you can create yourself cheaply on an MMO exchange) - and start buying to fill projects/doffing, etc.

    Not many explore MMOs or bother to check things out - they log in and expect the game to spoon feed them everything they need to do. ;)
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
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  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,545 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    Explain the Exchange? Simple. Three groups of people inhabit the Exchange.

    - The first group is known as the Ebil Ruthless Capitalists.
    Who insist on making people pay money for stuff.
    - The second group is called the Ebil Ruthless Socialists.
    Who insist you give them your money so they can then buy stuff from you.
    - The third group is called the Clueless People.
    Who try to sell Common articles for a gazillion EC.

    All three groups complain endlessly here about the other two groups and how they're, "ruining it for everybody else!" Until a sale on the Exchange comes out exactly the way they think it is supposed to. At which point they post here wondering why everyone else is complaining about the Exchange. Since it is working as intended.

    The best part? When members of the above named groups get into a girly-man fight here on the forums. They'll drag out phrases they don't really understand to simlutaneously explain and belittle each other. Things like, "supply and demand", or, "fixed prices for items". These are placed into overly long posts whose arguments usually can be distilled down to, "I'm right and you're stupid!" I find the entire process hugely amusing and remarkably akin to a monkey trying to TRIBBLE a football.
    Post edited by thunderfoot#5163 on
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,573 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    Don't forget about them tossing around Rule of Aquisition 18 like those same monkeys flinging about po*p. :)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • nickodaemusnickodaemus Member Posts: 711 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    I don't understand why people buy things like that - but they do.​​

    P.T. Barnum explained why.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    I don't understand why people buy things like that - but they do.​​
    P.T. Barnum explained why.
    "There's a sucker born every minute"?
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    My character Tsin'xing
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  • turbomagnusturbomagnus Member Posts: 3,479 Arc User
    Or was it that one about fooling all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time?

    ...I'm pretty sure it wasn't 'see the egress'...
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
    ^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
  • bobs1111bobs1111 Member Posts: 471 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    Don't forget about them tossing around Rule of Aquisition 18 like those same monkeys flinging about po*p. :)

    18 is for the children. No one really needs reminding of that past the age of 6.

    3 9 41 74 are the most important rules to remember when working the exchange.

    In then end Exchange PvP is the only PvP we have left in this game so if your going to play be prepared... and remember rule 69. Ok I won't make you look that one up, Rule 69 "Ferengi are not responsible for the stupidity of other races."

    Exchange wars really are the best part of STO.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    Or was it that one about fooling all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time?

    ...I'm pretty sure it wasn't 'see the egress'...
    "This way to the Ausgang." only works if you're too crowded. :p
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  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    iconians wrote: »
    jonsills wrote: »
    People purchased stacks of overpriced stuff for Fleet Projects? Really? :o
    Check the price of synthale on the Exchange some time. Keep in mind that you can make it yourself, with the Replicator, for 20 EC.

    I don't understand why people buy things like that - but they do.

    I don't understand why people buy the things they do, either. But I am thankful that they do, and for the price I list them for.​​

    Very much this. Drops or "rewards" such as items from 1st place CCA I sell for some strange prices. And they sell.
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  • devilment666devilment666 Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    If you need to sell them to an NPC Vendor, go to the Ground Supplies Vendor in the Voth Ground Battlezone HQ. You will get the best vendor price to dump them.

    You don't need to schlep all the way over to the Solanae Dyson Sphere to get the best prices. Plenty of other vendors around the galaxy will pay you 50%. ESD shipyard vendor, Qo'nos shipyard vendor, ground vendor at Klingon academy etc etc.

    Any vendor on this list whose markdown is 50% or less is who you want to be selling your vendor trash to. 60% or 70% markdown means you'll only get 40% or 30% of the value.
  • chastity1337chastity1337 Member Posts: 1,608 Arc User
    Here's an exchange-related question...

    When calculating your cost-of-goods-sold on something you have crafted, say for example a training manual, how do you calculate the value in EC of the Dil you put into it? In the case of a training manual, this is the 200 Dil to make the PADD. The PADD itself can be bought on the Exchange for 75-79K
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,573 Arc User
    To be honest I don't. I look at the price others have listed it for and will come in below it. If no one has the particular mods I have, I will extrapolate up or down based on closest mods.

    With the revision to Commodities in the recent Artifacts update, Cryptic changed the Commodities to an EC cost. They give this conversion:

    100 EC gives 1 Fleet Credit

    from previous

    1 Dilithium gives 1 Fleet Credit

    Given this you could extrapolate that 1 Dilithium is sort of equivalent to 100 EC.

    That is Cryptic math so take it for what it is worth.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
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