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Full faction announcement before market research?
oliviaclaire
Member Posts: 158 Arc User
This is just to set the record straight.
The history of the Klingon Empire with Cryptic Studios:
Exclusive: Interview With Star Trek Online Producer Craig Zinkievich (October 7, 2009):
A professional development studio conducts market research before making an announcement on full PvE factions. This looks backwards with Cryptic and smells fishy. Additionally, if they did conduct a poll "very early on", why did they wait until October 7, 2009 to announce it? The game launched on February 2nd, 2010. This smells especially fishy when you take other evidence into account.
In September 2005, Perpetual Entertainment, the original company behind STO, has contracted Nielsen Media Research, a firm that measures media audiences, to conduct an extensive customer survey for a Star Trek MMORPG with over 600 active gamers on their preferences, including playable factions. These were their findings:
Perpetual Entertainment: "We also wanted to ensure that we were hearing from people beyond those that identify themselves as Star Trek enthusiasts since we assume their opinion is under represented within the existing Star Trek Online community forums."
By contrast, Cryptic has conducted a poll exclusively within the STO community. The aforementioned TrekMovie is also a Star Trek enthusiast site. Why is it important to poll outside of Star Trek enthusiasts? There's something called self-selection bias:
Someone might argue that the television show was focused on Starfleet and Federation. However, such arguments are invalid because this is also a computer game, which advertises multiple factions. There have already been Star Trek computer games such as Star Trek: Klingon, Star Trek: Klingon Academy and Star Trek: Klingon Honor Guard, which were exclusively from the Klingon perspective.
Here are additional results from the aforementioned customer survey:
In regards to the Star Trek species popularity, even Starfleet players voted for Klingons as the third most popular option:
To address common counter-arguments from similar discussions, see the following:
"It was only 600 gamers. The results would be different if many more voted."
Feel free to post a different third-party survey that polls beyond Star Trek enthusiasts with "many more" as proof. *crickets*
"The survey is too old to be of any relevance today."
The survey has more relevance today because it was conducted before the game launched in an unfinished state and lost players.
"The question 'opposing faction' was presented under the assumption that Starfleet was the primary player faction."
No, the incorrect assumption was on Perpetual Entertainment's part after they were surprised by the results. Nowhere in the survey did Nielsen Media Research state that it was "opposing to Starfleet". Otherwise, "Federation (Starfleet)" would not have been an option at all. The reason it states "opposing factions" is because they oppose each other and are not allied.
"Cryptic did try to make KDF more attractive with the story missions. If the survey were credible, there would have been a massive player shift to the KDF."
Not until May 21st, 2013. STO has already lost many players by that time. Otherwise, it would not have needed a Winback Weekend in only three months since its launch. Shouldn't the "Federation (Starfleet) bias" have been enough to keep the player base? As the first customer review on the linked site has put it:
"Federation has an equally large list of problems."
Try making this list of problems on the Fed side. Didn't think so.
"Most players pick to play as humans and elves in MMOs."
See Horde vs Alliance in World of Warcraft.
"Cryptic is a small company, they don't have enough workforce."
Whatever workforce Cryptic had was split unevenly between factions.
"Federation (Starfleet) are the 'good guys', so most players pick them."
See Horde vs Alliance in World of Warcraft, The Galactic Republic vs The Sith Empire in Star Wars the Old Republic and Omni-Tek vs The Clan in Anarchy Online. Why aren't they making the same excuses?
"It was all Atari's bad management."
The Cash Shop on top of the subscription, when the game was still P2P, was called C-Store for Cryptic Store, not A-Store for Atari Store. It's pretty clear who was the main party in ripping people off. Of course, that doesn't mean that Atari wasn't responsible too.
"Doom! The game survived just fine without the KDF and is still going strong. It doesn't need other factions."
This game needed a Winback Weekend in only three months since its launch on February 2nd, 2010. On September 1st, 2011 they already announced that it was going F2P, which is also known as "graveyard" for P2P. What a success!
You can't win the players back with the Federation alone or at all, not to mention by nickel-and-diming them.
The history of the Klingon Empire with Cryptic Studios:
August 10th, 2008 - At Gen Con Jack Emmert, CEO Cryptic Studios, said: "Starfleet and Klingon. Yeah. So two factions, full PvE content."
Exclusive: Interview With Star Trek Online Producer Craig Zinkievich (October 7, 2009):
TrekMovie: Star Trek Online has two warring factions, The Federation and the Klingon Empire. We did a poll on the site and it showed that the vast majority were more interested in playing on the Federation side. Plus it seems there are more Federation fleets forming as well. Are you concerned there is going to be an imbalance in the game?
Craig Zinkievich: No. Someone PMed me your poll, we did a poll very early on after we announced the game, and our numbers were right around the same numbers. So we have really tried to make sure that the design supports that natural imbalance. So the Klingon gameplay is going to be much different than what the Federation is getting. It is going to be a lot more focused on the PvP [Player vs. Player] and focused on the houses within the Klingon Empire than really big story episodic exploration-focused that the Federation faction is going to have.
Craig Zinkievich: No. Someone PMed me your poll, we did a poll very early on after we announced the game, and our numbers were right around the same numbers. So we have really tried to make sure that the design supports that natural imbalance. So the Klingon gameplay is going to be much different than what the Federation is getting. It is going to be a lot more focused on the PvP [Player vs. Player] and focused on the houses within the Klingon Empire than really big story episodic exploration-focused that the Federation faction is going to have.
A professional development studio conducts market research before making an announcement on full PvE factions. This looks backwards with Cryptic and smells fishy. Additionally, if they did conduct a poll "very early on", why did they wait until October 7, 2009 to announce it? The game launched on February 2nd, 2010. This smells especially fishy when you take other evidence into account.
In September 2005, Perpetual Entertainment, the original company behind STO, has contracted Nielsen Media Research, a firm that measures media audiences, to conduct an extensive customer survey for a Star Trek MMORPG with over 600 active gamers on their preferences, including playable factions. These were their findings:
Perpetual Entertainment: "We also wanted to ensure that we were hearing from people beyond those that identify themselves as Star Trek enthusiasts since we assume their opinion is under represented within the existing Star Trek Online community forums."
By contrast, Cryptic has conducted a poll exclusively within the STO community. The aforementioned TrekMovie is also a Star Trek enthusiast site. Why is it important to poll outside of Star Trek enthusiasts? There's something called self-selection bias:
In statistics, self-selection bias arises in any situation in which individuals select themselves into a group, causing a biased sample with nonprobability sampling. [. . .] A poll suffering from such bias is termed a self-selected listener opinion poll or "SLOP".
Someone might argue that the television show was focused on Starfleet and Federation. However, such arguments are invalid because this is also a computer game, which advertises multiple factions. There have already been Star Trek computer games such as Star Trek: Klingon, Star Trek: Klingon Academy and Star Trek: Klingon Honor Guard, which were exclusively from the Klingon perspective.
Here are additional results from the aforementioned customer survey:
Using web-ads placed on sites oriented towards MMO and PC gamers, Nielsen selected over 600 active gamers who expressed interest in both Star Trek and MMOs. They then used additional filter questions sorted participants into three groups of about 200 each:
The purpose of selecting people who fit into one of these three groups was to ensure that we were getting feedback from people who might be interested in Star Trek Online and to understand our opportunity within various target audiences. We also wanted to ensure that we were hearing from people beyond those that identify themselves as Star Trek enthusiasts since we assume their opinion is under represented within the existing Star Trek Online community forums.
- MMO gamers: Those who play MMOs frequently with various levels of Star Trek enthusiasm.
- Star Trek enthusiasts: Those who expressed a high level of interest in Star Trek and had watched several series and many episodes.
- Gamers: Those with at least a minimal interest in Star Trek and MMOs who don't fall into the MMO or Star Trek enthusiast categories.
The purpose of selecting people who fit into one of these three groups was to ensure that we were getting feedback from people who might be interested in Star Trek Online and to understand our opportunity within various target audiences. We also wanted to ensure that we were hearing from people beyond those that identify themselves as Star Trek enthusiasts since we assume their opinion is under represented within the existing Star Trek Online community forums.
In regards to the Star Trek species popularity, even Starfleet players voted for Klingons as the third most popular option:
To address common counter-arguments from similar discussions, see the following:
"It was only 600 gamers. The results would be different if many more voted."
Feel free to post a different third-party survey that polls beyond Star Trek enthusiasts with "many more" as proof. *crickets*
"The survey is too old to be of any relevance today."
The survey has more relevance today because it was conducted before the game launched in an unfinished state and lost players.
"The question 'opposing faction' was presented under the assumption that Starfleet was the primary player faction."
No, the incorrect assumption was on Perpetual Entertainment's part after they were surprised by the results. Nowhere in the survey did Nielsen Media Research state that it was "opposing to Starfleet". Otherwise, "Federation (Starfleet)" would not have been an option at all. The reason it states "opposing factions" is because they oppose each other and are not allied.
"Cryptic did try to make KDF more attractive with the story missions. If the survey were credible, there would have been a massive player shift to the KDF."
Not until May 21st, 2013. STO has already lost many players by that time. Otherwise, it would not have needed a Winback Weekend in only three months since its launch. Shouldn't the "Federation (Starfleet) bias" have been enough to keep the player base? As the first customer review on the linked site has put it:
You only get one chance to make a first impression. Maybe no one at Cryptic has ever heard that old adage; if they had they might not have delivered a half-finished game.
"Federation has an equally large list of problems."
Try making this list of problems on the Fed side. Didn't think so.
"Most players pick to play as humans and elves in MMOs."
See Horde vs Alliance in World of Warcraft.
"Cryptic is a small company, they don't have enough workforce."
Whatever workforce Cryptic had was split unevenly between factions.
"Federation (Starfleet) are the 'good guys', so most players pick them."
See Horde vs Alliance in World of Warcraft, The Galactic Republic vs The Sith Empire in Star Wars the Old Republic and Omni-Tek vs The Clan in Anarchy Online. Why aren't they making the same excuses?
"It was all Atari's bad management."
The Cash Shop on top of the subscription, when the game was still P2P, was called C-Store for Cryptic Store, not A-Store for Atari Store. It's pretty clear who was the main party in ripping people off. Of course, that doesn't mean that Atari wasn't responsible too.
"Doom! The game survived just fine without the KDF and is still going strong. It doesn't need other factions."
This game needed a Winback Weekend in only three months since its launch on February 2nd, 2010. On September 1st, 2011 they already announced that it was going F2P, which is also known as "graveyard" for P2P. What a success!
You can't win the players back with the Federation alone or at all, not to mention by nickel-and-diming them.
Post edited by oliviaclaire on
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"they might not have delivered a half finished game." heheh... basic research fail. The state of the game at launch was due to the deadline imposed by CBS. Waiting to release was not an option.
Also.... the game was a bug riddled mess at launch. Winback had little to do with KDF at all, it mostly had to do with them fixing bugs to make the game playable.
My character Tsin'xing
I've lost count of how many times somebody has wanted to "set the record straight" about the STO Klingon Faction, but my guess would be pretty close to 200+ different threads.
And that's through FOUR different iterations of STO Forums and SIX YEARS of posting in them.
smh
It is what it is, listing what happened in the past is not really going to change the future.
Time to either let it go and enjoy what you've got, or move on to another game.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Starfleet will always be the primary player faction considering how the vast majority of Star Trek involved a Starfleet crew. Therefore, it is not an assumption that Starfleet was the primary player faction, but FACT. The reason why Federation (Starfleet) was in the poll is due to a typo. This poll is almost as bad as a hypothetical poll asking which opposing faction should be in City of Heroes with Heroes as an option.
With the recent console launch involving completely new players and very few veterans, it should give valuable data on unbiased playable faction distribution. So is Klingons on the console at less than 20% like the devs have claimed for the PC? Might be something for Cryptic to consider with new C-Store items if Starfleet is at 40% and Klingons and Romulans are at 30% on the console. Or it could also show that the abysmal number of Klingons in STO is not due to the lack of attention that Cryptic gave to the Klingons, but due to most players want to be Starfleet. Not sure why most players would want to be Starfleet since Klingons have the best races of Orions and Gorn.
It's not 2005. MMOs are now F2P and live on their nickels and dimes. Cryptic tried a full KDF faction and it only reached ~20% of the characters created. The number of players on PC is not going to increase significantly by adding more KDF content. The budget only allows for shared endgame content. Maybe if the console versions do really well we'll get some KDF-only content but that's a long shot. No matter where you go, there you are.
Yeah, it's only in 2nd place behind Neverwinter in terms of ARC's weekly top games. With Forsaken World taking 3rd, PWI taking 4th, and Blacklight: Retribution taking 5th.
So, it's totally getting near the same status as Champions Online.
My character Tsin'xing
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
I've read a lot of the OPs posts these past several months, and despite sharing an IQ with Stephen Hawking (he gets 75%, I get 25%), I still can't fathom what the underlying point of all this is.
Thank you.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
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Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
In my own defense, this kind of topic comes up far too often and has become tiresome so one might expect sarcasm and foolish posts when faced with another one of these topics.
It'd be better for all if dead horses such as this topic were buried/closed immediately.
Here is somethnig to take away from that survey data:
- We should have a playable Borg faction.
- We need Humans, Vulcans and Klingons playable on every faction, since it's clearly a favorite among the players and not having these 3 options on a faction is bound to lose a lot of potential players.
It's easily seen how the Federation came to be the most popular faction. It has Libereated Borg, Humans, Klingons and Vulcans as playable species. It's the perfect faction setup. Forget all the nonsense about "we need more ships" or "we need more faction-specific story content". The surveys clearly tell us what is important, and where the KDF fails hard.Now Geko should just put that lever from "suck" to "does not suck" and we'll be done.
Cryptic tried to increase the number of Klingon players in the past. They added a special tutorial, a storyline starting at level 1 and numbers still wouldn't increase significantly. They tried, they failed, they have given up. You can set the record straight all you want, it won't make any difference.
It's all fine and well trying to claim that Cryptic didn't listen, however, they have the true figures. They decided the war between Fed and KDF was no longer feasable. Let's bear in mind that throughout the TV series numerous Fed/KDF wars and peace treaties were brokered, but each 'war' got shorter and shorter and through the many conflicts where the Fed and KDF fought side by side, they both started to get along and understand each. It's a fact that the KDF actually spent more time fighting with each other.
Whilst, yet again, others are calling for a Borg faction, it can't be possible as the Borg are controlled by a collective. It makes no sense to have a Borg Collective. As for the Co-operative, there maybe a point to a faction, however, it would require writing up at least 20 or so missions to make them worth creating, which then would detract attention from creating content from the main factions, as to which people would start complaining about 'lack of content', 'lack of quality' et all. There is also CBS to consider in this argument. CBS is consulted on all content. If CBS have said no to any Borg Faction, then that is what people must accept.
I see people increasingly thinking they are entitled to more and more say in what actually happens with-in the game. Fact is they are not. Cryptic is 'God' next to CBS in this game. Just because Cryptic issue a poll, it does not mean that what is voted for is going to happen. The last poll, by the way, was for the Jupiter.
Star Trek
Star Trek Characters
Star Trek Ships
What do you see? A clear focus on the "Fed Side".
By contrast: Star Wars
No clear focus - you have both strong Imperial/Sith and Republic/Jedi motives.
To set the record straight: The franchise has been rigged against KDF (or Romulans) from the very beginning.