the queen certainly has the ability to sell assimilation as something good...because that's exactly what she did with the young boy from Unimatrix Zero, Part II
To a child... Adults might take a bit more convincing
Apparently it has happened though, which is the sort of thing I was hoping to see them do in Voyager with the Queen and 7.
How do you mean? I don't understand what you mean...
Personally, I've always felt the Borg are better served being treated as a force of nature rather than a conventional adversary. Later efforts to "humanize" them have only led to softening and removing the very things that made them unique.
On a side note, I always felt the concept behind Locutus was a little odd... Not so much the idea of the Borg using Picard against the Federation, but the fact that they gave him a name. Not a serial number, not a job descriptor, but an actual individual name... not even the Queen has a name, so it just feels odd that Picard would be afforded such special treatment. Its not even like the Borg were even trying to talk to the Federation much, they just issued their usual ultimatum and then went about business like usual.
Well, that really would be one to take up with the writers for an explanation, but I would guess, that as before, he was being used as a Posterboy, and a point of contact, which means enabling those with whom the contact is to being made, to be able to relate to in Human Terms, rather than Borg Terms. The loss of individuality is enough of a fear to put many off the notion of assimilation. Why demonstrate the vality of that fear at the point of contact? Far easier to give a name rather than a designation...
Don't forget the crew members lost when the Enterprise first encountered the cube at J-25... Memory Alpha claims they were 'vaporised'... I've always believed that because the section of the Enterprise was cut out for analysis (biopsy) the crew members in that core would have been brought aboard the cube and assimilated as part of said analysis. (Seven stated that drones had been resurrected some hours after death, the crew in the removed section, would have been dead minutes...) Totally plausible that they were assimilated, revived, and their knowledge of the Federation (possibly several member races) then becoming part of the Collective's knowledge, and the Collective then understanding that Humans respond to Figureheads, so they sought to create a figurehead, from the vessel they had encountered: The Enterprise...
Regarding the crew killed in "Q Who?", I assumed they died of asphyxiation due to catastrophic failure of the freaking wall. The point of cutting a chunk out of the ship, and of beaming into Main Engineering, was to analyze the tech they were up against.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Regarding the crew killed in "Q Who?", I assumed they died of asphyxiation due to catastrophic failure of the freaking wall. The point of cutting a chunk out of the ship, and of beaming into Main Engineering, was to analyze the tech they were up against.
Keep in mind Q,Who Borgwas not interested in the crew. It was only interested in technology, and keeping it from getting to it would lead to "punishment". The two Borg incarnations aren't really comparable as the assimilation of individuals to get more drones doesn't make sense. The Borg is all about decentralised autonomy, hence why breeding new drones is much more efficient than to "hunt" for new ones.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
and if they REALLY wanna go the efficient route to 'perfection', they'd trade their technology for genetic samples and other technology from a species and then clone as many drones as they need instead of going with that incredibly wasteful and inefficient 'assimilation' route
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
and if they REALLY wanna go the efficient route to 'perfection', they'd trade their technology for genetic samples and other technology from a species and then clone as many drones as they need instead of going with that incredibly wasteful and inefficient 'assimilation' route
Well, they already did procreate autonomously. But zombies and vampires were popular, so they changed it to space zombies Seriously, post FC Borg are anything BUT efficient in what they do. The concept doesn't make sense any more.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
the queen certainly has the ability to sell assimilation as something good...because that's exactly what she did with the young boy from Unimatrix Zero, Part II
To a child... Adults might take a bit more convincing
Apparently it has happened though, which is the sort of thing I was hoping to see them do in Voyager with the Queen and 7.
How do you mean? I don't understand what you mean...
Regarding the crew killed in "Q Who?", I assumed they died of asphyxiation due to catastrophic failure of the freaking wall. The point of cutting a chunk out of the ship, and of beaming into Main Engineering, was to analyze the tech they were up against.
Yes, I completely agree, but for some reason, MA states they were vaporised, which I don't remember happening at all in that episode, so which I ignore as an inaccurate write-up...
Regarding the crew killed in "Q Who?", I assumed they died of asphyxiation due to catastrophic failure of the freaking wall. The point of cutting a chunk out of the ship, and of beaming into Main Engineering, was to analyze the tech they were up against.
Keep in mind Q,Who Borgwas not interested in the crew. It was only interested in technology, and keeping it from getting to it would lead to "punishment". The two Borg incarnations aren't really comparable as the assimilation of individuals to get more drones doesn't make sense. The Borg is all about decentralised autonomy, hence why breeding new drones is much more efficient than to "hunt" for new ones.
It wasn't interested in the crew, because it hadn't sampled enough of the technology to deem if they were 'worthy of assimilation' (which it was noted the Kazon were not...) The Borg would still have been assimilating others into the collective, because that's how they grow their numbers...
and if they REALLY wanna go the efficient route to 'perfection', they'd trade their technology for genetic samples and other technology from a species and then clone as many drones as they need instead of going with that incredibly wasteful and inefficient 'assimilation' route
Well, they already did procreate autonomously. But zombies and vampires were popular, so they changed it to space zombies Seriously, post FC Borg are anything BUT efficient in what they do. The concept doesn't make sense any more.
No they didn't, Riker merely assumed that they did... Later episodes confirmed this... To believd otherwise, would be the same as stating that until the episode where Picard had to have his artificial heart replaced, he had an organic one, and it was then changed. (which arguably could have worked, had Picsrd been suffering from heart disease, and had to go to the stsrbase for a replacement so he could return to duty) We've been told (in canon) that the Collective uses maturation chambers to make children into adults to then be drones. The episode which introduced the Borg Kids also had a Baby Borg, so a second canon example of a baby being placed in a maturation chamber (and I don't even want to daell on how they got the baby from its mother...) so that shows that while what Riker said was a truthful statement (from the information he had) what he assumed, was incorrect...
(...)
No they didn't, Riker merely assumed that they did... Later episodes confirmed this... To believd otherwise, would be the same as stating that until the episode where Picard had to have his artificial heart replaced, he had an organic one, and it was then changed. (which arguably could have worked, had Picsrd been suffering from heart disease, and had to go to the stsrbase for a replacement so he could return to duty) We've been told (in canon) that the Collective uses maturation chambers to make children into adults to then be drones. The episode which introduced the Borg Kids also had a Baby Borg, so a second canon example of a baby being placed in a maturation chamber (and I don't even want to daell on how they got the baby from its mother...) so that shows that while what Riker said was a truthful statement (from the information he had) what he assumed, was incorrect...
It was retconned, yet. That still doesn't make sense, though. I don't argue the canonicity of retcons, I just think they're dumb as they only work assuming characters like Q previously lied or hat faulty information, which wasn't the case as we got exposition dialogue and not a hint of trickery (for once, Q was very straight forward in that moment).
It's not exclusive to Borg, mind you. I don't accept retcons in general. I will acknowledge their canonicity but I will point out how they don't make sense every single time Picard's heart is not a retcon, by the way. There is a way to continue events or add new ones but a retcon fundamentally changes/rewrites past events. The Borg Queen "being there" is one as she clearly was not. Now one can do any brain acrobatics one desires to make this work, but the simple truth is it wasn't written back then. In my opinion needing a retcon to make a current story work is a sign of poor writing and/or lack of imagination. But that's my opinion.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
(...)
No they didn't, Riker merely assumed that they did... Later episodes confirmed this... To believd otherwise, would be the same as stating that until the episode where Picard had to have his artificial heart replaced, he had an organic one, and it was then changed. (which arguably could have worked, had Picsrd been suffering from heart disease, and had to go to the stsrbase for a replacement so he could return to duty) We've been told (in canon) that the Collective uses maturation chambers to make children into adults to then be drones. The episode which introduced the Borg Kids also had a Baby Borg, so a second canon example of a baby being placed in a maturation chamber (and I don't even want to daell on how they got the baby from its mother...) so that shows that while what Riker said was a truthful statement (from the information he had) what he assumed, was incorrect...
It was retconned, yet. That still doesn't make sense, though. I don't argue the canonicity of retcons, I just think they're dumb as they only work assuming characters like Q previously lied or hat faulty information, which wasn't the case as we got exposition dialogue and not a hint of trickery (for once, Q was very straight forward in that moment).
It's not exclusive to Borg, mind you. I don't accept retcons in general. I will acknowledge their canonicity but I will point out how they don't make sense every single time Picard's heart is not a retcon, by the way. There is a way to continue events or add new ones but a retcon fundamentally changes/rewrites past events. The Borg Queen "being there" is one as she clearly was not. Now one can do any brain acrobatics one desires to make this work, but the simple truth is it wasn't written back then. In my opinion needing a retcon to make a current story work is a sign of poor writing and/or lack of imagination. But that's my opinion.
Sadly, it makes absolutely perfect sense as to what happens if the Borg were to assimilate a pregnant woman...
*/*Two lifeforms detected...*/*
*/*Utilize all resources...*/*
*/*Bringing maturation chamber online...*/*
And yet the rewrite of the Borg Queen was explained by Picard's "Yes, I remember... You were there all along... But that ship, and every Borg on it... was destroyed..."
To which the Borg Queen says something along the lines of Human minds being such fragile things, and how small he has become, (for having forgotten (or more likely blocked out) those details of his experience...)
I can see what you're saying, but in context to FC, it does make sense (froma certain point of view )
I just see the Borg seeing two potential drones rather than one, or a "Leave this one alone..." decency/morality, because the Borg Collective doesn't do what it does out of malice, but the desire to bring beings closer to perfection. It sees itself as uplifting them...
So far as I am concerned, that was where things went wrong. The Borg were NOT really villans, as such, in 'Q-Who' or 'Best of Both Worlds'. They were a proverbial 'force of nature'.
^This Nova gets it!
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
the queen certainly has the ability to sell assimilation as something good...because that's exactly what she did with the young boy from Unimatrix Zero, Part II
Assimilation is FUN!
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Comments
Don't forget the crew members lost when the Enterprise first encountered the cube at J-25... Memory Alpha claims they were 'vaporised'... I've always believed that because the section of the Enterprise was cut out for analysis (biopsy) the crew members in that core would have been brought aboard the cube and assimilated as part of said analysis. (Seven stated that drones had been resurrected some hours after death, the crew in the removed section, would have been dead minutes...) Totally plausible that they were assimilated, revived, and their knowledge of the Federation (possibly several member races) then becoming part of the Collective's knowledge, and the Collective then understanding that Humans respond to Figureheads, so they sought to create a figurehead, from the vessel they had encountered: The Enterprise...
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Keep in mind Q,Who Borgwas not interested in the crew. It was only interested in technology, and keeping it from getting to it would lead to "punishment". The two Borg incarnations aren't really comparable as the assimilation of individuals to get more drones doesn't make sense. The Borg is all about decentralised autonomy, hence why breeding new drones is much more efficient than to "hunt" for new ones.
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A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Well, they already did procreate autonomously. But zombies and vampires were popular, so they changed it to space zombies
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No they didn't, Riker merely assumed that they did... Later episodes confirmed this... To believd otherwise, would be the same as stating that until the episode where Picard had to have his artificial heart replaced, he had an organic one, and it was then changed. (which arguably could have worked, had Picsrd been suffering from heart disease, and had to go to the stsrbase for a replacement so he could return to duty) We've been told (in canon) that the Collective uses maturation chambers to make children into adults to then be drones. The episode which introduced the Borg Kids also had a Baby Borg, so a second canon example of a baby being placed in a maturation chamber (and I don't even want to daell on how they got the baby from its mother...) so that shows that while what Riker said was a truthful statement (from the information he had) what he assumed, was incorrect...
It was retconned, yet. That still doesn't make sense, though. I don't argue the canonicity of retcons, I just think they're dumb as they only work assuming characters like Q previously lied or hat faulty information, which wasn't the case as we got exposition dialogue and not a hint of trickery (for once, Q was very straight forward in that moment).
It's not exclusive to Borg, mind you. I don't accept retcons in general. I will acknowledge their canonicity but I will point out how they don't make sense every single time
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*/*Two lifeforms detected...*/*
*/*Utilize all resources...*/*
*/*Bringing maturation chamber online...*/*
And yet the rewrite of the Borg Queen was explained by Picard's "Yes, I remember... You were there all along... But that ship, and every Borg on it... was destroyed..."
To which the Borg Queen says something along the lines of Human minds being such fragile things, and how small he has become, (for having forgotten (or more likely blocked out) those details of his experience...)
I can see what you're saying, but in context to FC, it does make sense (froma certain point of view
My character Tsin'xing
^This Nova gets it!
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Assimilation is FUN!
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."