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Regarding the End of the Iconian War...
sevenofnine13141
Member Posts: 4,272 Arc User
Since the Iconian War ended in peace...
Was there ever a peace treaty? Most wars nowadays and even in the 24th to 25th centuries, there were peace treaties and cease-fires... All except the Iconian War. No cease-fire, no peace treaty; just... normal peace and no actual terms except a vague "We wish to be alone" or somethin' like that. We should actually be seeing a Treaty being drawn up, but it was never shown in an episode, or even in a lore post story like with the Iconian War stories.
Was there ever a peace treaty? Most wars nowadays and even in the 24th to 25th centuries, there were peace treaties and cease-fires... All except the Iconian War. No cease-fire, no peace treaty; just... normal peace and no actual terms except a vague "We wish to be alone" or somethin' like that. We should actually be seeing a Treaty being drawn up, but it was never shown in an episode, or even in a lore post story like with the Iconian War stories.
| State of the Federation |
The German Empire
Founded 2413
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But I imagine that there never was a real political peace treaty.
I don't think the Federation / Alliance bureaucrats will knock on the door to get one... The Iconians was toooooooo close to win the war.
Better just leave them alone and let us lick our wounds in peace.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
I think it was more like they were sparing the lives of those who were left alive by chance. They just halted their ultimate extermination with the caveat we leave them alone.
It's actually a bit unsettling.
We won the dominion war, because we had them boxed in on Cardassia and had leverage in the ability to cure the founder's disease, which would eventually wipe them out.
Even in that case, our cease fire is tenuous at best.
With the Iconians we don't even have a guarantee of a complete cessation of hostilities. If I recall correctly M'ket and her forces could attack us at anytime.
The very idea that there would be some kind of treaty seems a very Earth-centric way of dealing with things, too. Probably not all aliens do those things, they might as well think: no active hostility = peace, no treaty or anything needed to confirm what is already happening. They always seemed very pragmatic beings anyway.
Besides, if you do want to take a human or Earth-like approach: there were never any diplomatic relations between the Iconians and us and there won't be for the next few years / centuries. A treaty would therefore be pointless. They also tend to be negotiated between equals, which we aren't in this case of course. In fact, the Alliance isn't even a formal state so there's also a problem there.
However, the whole "T'Ket is still at war" to justify the PvE queues was an incredibly stupid reason cooked by the devs/writers as not only was it unnecessary (since all other queues don't have such justification, and understandably so: it's an acceptable break from "reality" to keep the queues up even if from the story perspective, you only did it once, or recreated it several times to improve your tactics on Holodeck) but also make the Iconians surrender more bitter since they don't stop their angsty sister from playing with her toys.
Id have shot sela for L'Miren and made a nice porta potty out of her skull and place it n a bolian bathroom
You can't blame Sela for not being able to understand the paradox.
One might as well argue that the Iconians (or Hakeev and Taris) started the whole thing and that she was right in striking back when she got the chance and to prevent everything from happening.
There's no clear cause and effect here. Blaming Sela for something our own characters and Kagran didn't realise (that we were the Other) until the moment we activated the Gateway to save them isn't fair. She just got back from a time where the Iconians were purging the Galaxy, where they had destroyed one of the major powers including killing billions of people.
There's no way she could have foreseen it. She was trying to prevent everything from happening, it might as well be argued that, by stopping her, Kagran and the PC are responsible for allowing everything to happen.
Anyway, you can't blame people for not understanding a temporal paradox if they perceive time as something linear in daily life. We're not higher beings like the Q or the Wormhole Aliens. All we know is that Sela had to do what she did, because she was meant to do it. I know, that way you can find excuses for almost all, including the most perverse acts, but that's the way it is written.
Hm I see I took way too long to write my post
In Ragnarok (at least I think it's that one) we encounter records from several other universes. One of them talks of a Dominion-Iconian Alliance.
There's not much info given on it in our own universe, but it may well be that Sela also prevented this alliance from coming into existence in our case.
This is more a meta-level issue. In the fiction, everyone wants to get her punished for all the crimes she did. But on a meta-level - Denise Crosby is the one Star Trek alumni that definitely loves coming back to STO, the STO team likes working with her - and that requires her staying in an active role in the game, so she can reappear regularly. Stuck in a prison cell or executed by the Romulan Republic (or an angry player character) is not a fate that works well with that.
Haha, no. Their method of destabilizing the galaxy was anything but pragmatic compared to the Dominion's actions in DS9. And it also failed miserably.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
The galaxy is ours to use, just leave the Iconians in peace for them to rebuild their ancestral home.
Anyways, the Alliance was in no position to press anything and make gains with the Iconians, who seemed pretty content to tuck away in their corner of the galaxy.
What we did get is the current Federation - Klingon Empire - Rom Republic alliance dominating the Alpha & Beta Quadrants and possibly being on better terms with Sela's RSE and the Dominion over in the Gamma Quadrant.
If I may be so bold, They WERE wiping the floor with us in so far as the logistics of winning with military might, that is absolutely true. no argument there.
BUT, Upon reflection: One can still take away our victory, a small victory maybe, but one significant enough that ultimately it ended the war.
It was the fact that the strategy the Iconians employed, "divide and conquer", failed. and rather miserably. In fact, the opposite happened We united and that ultimately ended the war.
Granted our combined forces after years of fighting one another, wasn't enough to win the war on military might alone, BUT it did buy time, Time to formulate the time travel plan, execute it: (as a combined force) and ultimately find a way to end the war.
If the Iconians suffered a failure, It was with their ultimate strategy to divide us, they underestimated us in that measure and ultimately it did lead to and end of their war campaign.
And our combined forces have thus far neutralized *T'ket's (thanks somtaawkhar ), efforts and kept her at bay despite her advantage of having superior technology.
GOD: "Fine you live, don't bother me anymore"
Asswhopped bug: "Madam we'd like you to sign these forms in triplicate to establish formal peace"
yeah I'm sure that will end well...
Yeah I know, but General Order 272 will still be used. Also, if you're past the episode "Midnight", then the said General Order would apply. But if you have NOT reached Midnight, then it doesn't apply. Just so that people can get where in STO lore General Order 272 was instated.
So all the Terran Empire has to do is fire a couple of shots at Iconia and then sit back and watch the Iconians slaughter us? :O
You have just summed up exactly how I would launch such a operation.
Obviously Admiral Leeta can't go because like you say she's the idiot of the Empire and now a traitor.
I acknowledge the fact that the ship signatures might be traced to the Terrans, so .. to counter that we steal some of the Federation's ships then attack Iconia.
P.S. Don't announce your General Orders via fourms, subspace or McDonalds signs. thy can be used against you.
Love
Terran Emperor.
P.S. @artan42 ... Marmite room NOW!
P.S. Your forces will always seem to fail, because apparently, for some reason, Imperial troops and ships tend to have bad aim....