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  • psycoticvulcanpsycoticvulcan Member Posts: 4,160 Arc User
    Agreed, very cool.

    One interesting bombshell: according to this, the Kelvin Timeline diverged at the Earth/Romulan War rather than Nero's arrival in 2233 as we'd believed.
    NJ9oXSO.png
    "Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
    -Thomas Marrone
  • pappy02upappy02u Member Posts: 141 Arc User
    Actually according to this it is a completely different timeline that just crosses ours. I guess my theory that the kelvin timeline was a different totally timeline/dimension (like the mirror) was correct. Explains a lot and makes more sense now.
  • sevenofnine13141sevenofnine13141 Member Posts: 4,275 Arc User
    Agreed, very cool.

    One interesting bombshell: according to this, the Kelvin Timeline diverged at the Earth/Romulan War rather than Nero's arrival in 2233 as we'd believed.

    Mhm, but it also establishes the entire Prime Universe Timeline from the Earth Romulan War to the 29th Century. I suspect the Galactic Union formed sometime between 2410 AD and 3000 AD.
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  • daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    Will be interesting to see how much any of that changes once "Discovery" starts adding to the early history of the Trek Universes.
    B)
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  • sevenofnine13141sevenofnine13141 Member Posts: 4,275 Arc User
    daveyny wrote: »
    Will be interesting to see how much any of that changes once "Discovery" starts adding to the early history of the Trek Universes.
    B)

    Mhm. It will most certainly prove interesting indeed... Can't wait to see what ST Discovery has to offer for the Prime Universe Timeline.
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  • dalolorndalolorn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    Some of the arcs and episodes don't line up:

    The episodes that clearly had to inspire the Devidian and B'vat arcs are listed under 'Romulan Mystery', when the most accurate placement under the current configuration would be 'Klingon War - Federation', especially for the B'vat part.

    Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.p3OEBPD6HU3QI.jpg
  • reafisreafis Member Posts: 147 Arc User
    Actually I suspect the 4th nu trek film might explain that as has been stated to have George kirk in it who was last seen kersploding on the kelvin. Prehaps the kelvin or bits of it went back in time ?
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  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    True Story: Had a friend of mine who hasn't played the game in years link it to me in chat today.

    So not only does it look sweet, but you all are getting the word out too.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • anodynesanodynes Member Posts: 1,999 Arc User
    I'm kind of wondering what the other 2 faint dashed lines represent. 2 other alternate universes? Perhaps one is the Mirror Universe, but what is the other one?
    This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 4,115 Arc User
    True Story: Had a friend of mine who hasn't played the game in years link it to me in chat today.

    So not only does it look sweet, but you all are getting the word out too.

    Yeah - too bad it's just the Console version timeline as it leaves out all the "Agents of Yesterday" mission references (and "Yesterday's War" isn't listed either.) -- That said, the real day to release it would have been September 8th. ;)
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
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  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    That said, the real day to release it would have been September 8th. ;)

    Good point. Ah well.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    anodynes wrote: »
    I'm kind of wondering what the other 2 faint dashed lines represent. 2 other alternate universes? Perhaps one is the Mirror Universe, but what is the other one?

    prime timeline perhaps? Since STO is not canon but its own variant of the prime
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    tacofangs wrote: »
    STO isn't canon, and neither are any of the books.
  • anodynesanodynes Member Posts: 1,999 Arc User
    That's a sort of dodgy argument, though. STO follows the Prime timeline canon, such as it is, until the end of canon depictions. Anything after Romulus' destruction and the disappearance of Nero and Spock shortly afterward is, of course, entirely made up, as is any alteration to the past, and anything shown from the periods that we did see in canon that wasn't actually shown. Canon for the Prime timeline was always highly mutable itself, anyway, due to making things up as they went. UESPA, Starship class, James R. Kirk, "Was this before the Klingons joined the Federation?" That only scratches the surface.
    This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    The novels maybe :).
  • pappy02upappy02u Member Posts: 141 Arc User
    I still say the Kelvin timeline should be the Kelvin universe.
  • tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    Shouldn't STO be 2409 - 2410? I was under impression that we shift into 2410 in Surface Tension.

    Nevertheless, it's really cool they did that graph.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,557 Arc User
    pappy02u wrote: »
    Actually according to this it is a completely different timeline that just crosses ours. I guess my theory that the kelvin timeline was a different totally timeline/dimension (like the mirror) was correct. Explains a lot and makes more sense now.

    This was initially explained at the start of the Terminal Expanse mission. Of course, it doesn't explain if the Kelvin Universe in that mission is the Kelvin Universe or the Kelvin-STO Universe. Personally, I think that the supernova in Star Trek 2009 took place in the STO universe not the Prime Universe. So who we think is Spock Prime in the new Star Trek movies is actually our Spock in the STO Universe. Therefore, the Prime Universe is free to create a new story with Romulus still exists if they want and STO is just the sacrifice for the new Star Trek movies.

    So it is still possible that a new timeline was created from the Prime Universe. However, even if that is the case, then the events before 2233 in the Kelvin Universe would not be the same as the events in the Prime Universe. Nero destroying the Kelvin would have resulted in every temporal event being reset since the time travelers that initially went back in time no longer exist or didn't change the past for that particular instance. Of course, there would be new temporal events caused by new time travelers.
  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    anodynes wrote: »
    That's a sort of dodgy argument, though. STO follows the Prime timeline canon, such as it is, until the end of canon depictions. Anything after Romulus' destruction and the disappearance of Nero and Spock shortly afterward is, of course, entirely made up, as is any alteration to the past, and anything shown from the periods that we did see in canon that wasn't actually shown. Canon for the Prime timeline was always highly mutable itself, anyway, due to making things up as they went. UESPA, Starship class, James R. Kirk, "Was this before the Klingons joined the Federation?" That only scratches the surface.

    not really.... there has never EVER been an instance where a video game or novel was considered canon. So the Prime timeline is different than the STO timeline. For a quick example (as far as we know) our character was not there beating down vorgons while the nx-01 fought tholians near a disabled vulcan ship. So theres a difference between prime and sto timeline
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    tacofangs wrote: »
    STO isn't canon, and neither are any of the books.
  • tarran61tarran61 Member Posts: 827 Arc User
    A picture is worth a 1000 words, a picture with words, even more. Thanks for making and sharing it.
    Positive thoughts.
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  • sylveriareldensylveriarelden Member Posts: 531 Arc User
    3000's - The Discovery of New Eden... :P

    Well it does sort of make for an interesting game cross-over LOL
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  • zedbrightlander1zedbrightlander1 Member Posts: 14,782 Arc User
    I'd be curious to learn of Michael Okuda had a hand in the making of this. :)
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    Sig? What sig? I don't see any sig.
  • pappy02upappy02u Member Posts: 141 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    This was initially explained at the start of the Terminal Expanse mission. Of course, it doesn't explain if the Kelvin Universe in that mission is the Kelvin Universe or the Kelvin-STO Universe. Personally, I think that the supernova in Star Trek 2009 took place in the STO universe not the Prime Universe. So who we think is Spock Prime in the new Star Trek movies is actually our Spock in the STO Universe. Therefore, the Prime Universe is free to create a new story with Romulus still exists if they want and STO is just the sacrifice for the new Star Trek movies.

    So it is still possible that a new timeline was created from the Prime Universe. However, even if that is the case, then the events before 2233 in the Kelvin Universe would not be the same as the events in the Prime Universe. Nero destroying the Kelvin would have resulted in every temporal event being reset since the time travelers that initially went back in time no longer exist or didn't change the past for that particular instance. Of course, there would be new temporal events caused by new time travelers.

    Well I always thought that it was a different universe because, if it was suppose to be prime, the Kelvin would have look like a Prime/Rodenberry ship not a Kelvin/Abrams ship. In my theory the Kelvin universe does not match prime timeline on date but is off a few centuries. So the shock wave plus red matter just opened a rift that pulled Spock and Nero into the Kelvin universe. This took the time travel out of the equation. So when we visit the Kelvin universe it's not time travel it's a side step to a universe that is similar to our history.
  • psycoticvulcanpsycoticvulcan Member Posts: 4,160 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    pappy02u wrote: »
    if it was suppose to be prime, the Kelvin would have look like a Prime/Rodenberry ship not a Kelvin/Abrams ship.

    I always thought the Kelvin looked like a smooth transition between the ENT and TOS eras.

    latest?cb=20060106114547&path-prefix=en
    latest?cb=20160125234159&path-prefix=en
    latest?cb=20090130211317&path-prefix=en
    NJ9oXSO.png
    "Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
    -Thomas Marrone
  • pappy02upappy02u Member Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited September 2016
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,557 Arc User
    pappy02u wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »
    This was initially explained at the start of the Terminal Expanse mission. Of course, it doesn't explain if the Kelvin Universe in that mission is the Kelvin Universe or the Kelvin-STO Universe. Personally, I think that the supernova in Star Trek 2009 took place in the STO universe not the Prime Universe. So who we think is Spock Prime in the new Star Trek movies is actually our Spock in the STO Universe. Therefore, the Prime Universe is free to create a new story with Romulus still exists if they want and STO is just the sacrifice for the new Star Trek movies.

    So it is still possible that a new timeline was created from the Prime Universe. However, even if that is the case, then the events before 2233 in the Kelvin Universe would not be the same as the events in the Prime Universe. Nero destroying the Kelvin would have resulted in every temporal event being reset since the time travelers that initially went back in time no longer exist or didn't change the past for that particular instance. Of course, there would be new temporal events caused by new time travelers.

    Well I always thought that it was a different universe because, if it was suppose to be prime, the Kelvin would have look like a Prime/Rodenberry ship not a Kelvin/Abrams ship. In my theory the Kelvin universe does not match prime timeline on date but is off a few centuries. So the shock wave plus red matter just opened a rift that pulled Spock and Nero into the Kelvin universe. This took the time travel out of the equation. So when we visit the Kelvin universe it's not time travel it's a side step to a universe that is similar to our history.

    This is my view as well, but more about its creative freedom rather than the look of a specific ship. If the new Star Trek movies involved time travel instead of a parallel universe that looked similar to the 23rd Century, then the Borg, Dominion, and other enemies would have to exist instead of creating completely new enemies. For example, the Borg could be replaced with a collective mind that uses organic technology instead of cybernetic technology. So assimilation would involve changing the DNA of everyone infected to become a drone instead of becoming part machine.
    pappy02u wrote: »

    The NX Refit is not canon so it is not known if it existed in the Prime Universe and certainly can't be used as a link between the NX and TOS Enterprise.
  • zedbrightlander1zedbrightlander1 Member Posts: 14,782 Arc User
    That NX Refit reminds me of a few of the ship designs FASA created back in the 1980s for there Star Trek game.

    housevampyr.com/training/library/books/fasa/fed/FAS2302%20-%20Star%20Trek%20-%20Federation%20Ship%20Recognition%20Manual.pdf

    f5cc65bc8f3b91f963e328314df7c48d.jpg
    Sig? What sig? I don't see any sig.
  • pappy02upappy02u Member Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    Well it made to the official starship collection
    memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/NX_class_model?file=Eaglemoss_Star_Trek_Official_Starships_Collection_issue_SP6.jpg

    And the 2014 ships of the line calendar. Miss February

    So it is canon enough for merchandise.
  • zedbrightlander1zedbrightlander1 Member Posts: 14,782 Arc User
    Requisite post.
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    Sig? What sig? I don't see any sig.
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    pappy02u wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »
    This was initially explained at the start of the Terminal Expanse mission. Of course, it doesn't explain if the Kelvin Universe in that mission is the Kelvin Universe or the Kelvin-STO Universe. Personally, I think that the supernova in Star Trek 2009 took place in the STO universe not the Prime Universe. So who we think is Spock Prime in the new Star Trek movies is actually our Spock in the STO Universe. Therefore, the Prime Universe is free to create a new story with Romulus still exists if they want and STO is just the sacrifice for the new Star Trek movies.

    So it is still possible that a new timeline was created from the Prime Universe. However, even if that is the case, then the events before 2233 in the Kelvin Universe would not be the same as the events in the Prime Universe. Nero destroying the Kelvin would have resulted in every temporal event being reset since the time travelers that initially went back in time no longer exist or didn't change the past for that particular instance. Of course, there would be new temporal events caused by new time travelers.

    Well I always thought that it was a different universe because, if it was suppose to be prime, the Kelvin would have look like a Prime/Rodenberry ship not a Kelvin/Abrams ship. In my theory the Kelvin universe does not match prime timeline on date but is off a few centuries. So the shock wave plus red matter just opened a rift that pulled Spock and Nero into the Kelvin universe. This took the time travel out of the equation. So when we visit the Kelvin universe it's not time travel it's a side step to a universe that is similar to our history.

    Why do people keep saying this? The Kelvin era (not the timeline) is not TOS. The Kelvin era ships look like evolutions of the NX and similar designs because they are from a different era. Less time passes between the radically different Galaxy and Defiant than between the Kelvin and Constitution, aesthetic changes just happen.​​
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