Why haven't we gotten a T6 Sovereign yet? It's an iconic ship that needs an upgrade. We have gotten a T6 Excelsior, Defiant, Voyager, Galaxy Class, and they have all gotten ship skin upgrades as well so they look more like they did in the shows. The Sovereign's skin is horribly outdated, it needs to be updated to look like it came from Nemisis. It's one of the best looking ships in Star Trek and it deserves to be up to par with the other ships in the game, in terms of look and stats.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
Comments
TL;DR = I wouldn't hold my breath.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
They release one lock box plus ep. and all of a sudden they're in a (partially) KT-themed holding pattern. Never mind that this doesn't relate to the c-store at all, we've apparently got to wait until things tank before we see another T6 reboot of an iconic T5 ship (the occurrence of which is pretty much on par with the sun rising in the morning. It's a very customary thing at this point.)
That would but I don't see it as very necessary to have. The galaxy and oddy can both do it too. While that creates a sensible argument for why the one in the middle should have it as well, it means we are stocked for 25c cruisers with saucer separation. Personally (and because we are so well stocked generally on FED cruisers), I'd rather have cryptic explore some other mechanic which might help the Sovy stand out a little bit more against the alternatives (most especially the Oddy).
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
A pet that actually is worth separating?
Why? Simply because of the rules for T6 upgrades that they have already established. Let me elaborate..
The T6 Sovereign would be based off the stats of the T5 ship. This is how these things have always been done, you can use the stats of the T5 variant to figure out what the T6 will look like. The problem is, the T5 variant sucks and if they stuck to their own rules, they would release a T6 cruiser that would likely unseat the Resolute as the worst overall T6 ship. They might be able to save it by making some of the seating universal and giving it a specialist seating other then command, but they don't have a history of changing the officer seating on T6 versions. If they stuck with the T5 model, the ship would have 7 Engineering seats which is.. simply put.. awful. It was fine back in the 'Aux2Bat' days, but now it's a waste of seats. If they made the Lt. Engineering a Universal station and upgraded it's existing Lt Universal to a Lt. Commander Universal/Specialist seat, they might have something. That however, goes against their history of how they do things.
If they made this ship another Command Cruiser with way too many Engineering seats, it would be a total flop, they just can't do that, it would be a total waste. As long as it's not a Command Cruiser and they're willing to give it some flexibility over the T5 version, then sure. If it's just going to be based completely off the T5 version (which it usually is) then skip it.
They showed some flexability with the T6 Galaxy, they will need to do that again to make a T6 Sovereign worth while. It's going to be hard to find a role for this ship that isn't already filled more effectively by a ship that's already out.
Good points all... also why I've previously made the suggestion they abandon their specialization-specific boff seating model and move to a more universal system (as in universal specialization seating, instead of hard-coded) which would make things like this much easier to accomplish. They seem, however, hell-bent on painting themselves into a proverbial corner.
I'm actually wondering how much of it is because of the business model rather than the mechanics, such as they know if they were to move to such a system, it would remove the "variety" that people would be shoehorned into paying for as they do currently. Being able to get Intel specialization seating on a Command Cruiser rather than Command specialization seating, who would then buy the Intel-specific ships they designed? (and so forth)
As artificially bound and arbitrary as the system seems to be currently- they've also locked themselves into the Tiering model, which will in itself be limited. Price stepping per tier presents many problems- most of which comes to a cap in economic "value" of in-game pixels. How many people would pay twice as much for a single in-game item than they'd pay for two AAA games? (if it keeps going where it's going- that's where it will end up) Sounds absurd, yes- but take what's historically precedented in their releases and do the math going forward.
This is why I'm an advocate of removing the tier system completely- and perhaps moving toward the utilization of specialization points/skill choices to "enhance" base hulls of a ship rather than increased pricing based on "FOTM" content releases. Imagine being able to put a Temporal specialized boff in a Sovereign- and utilize their Temporal skills because it's no longer arbitrarily "hard coded". Or maybe an Intel boff... etc.
It's also why I'm waiting to see what they're planning for the future- and why I wish they'd just release a "road map" already for the next year or so, but not holding my breath here.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Assault_Cruiser_Refit
Basing it on the Refit seems to be simple enough to make it worthwhile. The Lt. Engineering could become a Hybrid seat, the Univeral Lt. a Lt.Cmdr seat.
But even basing it on the original ship stats - boosting the Lt.Tac to Lt.Cmdr and giving the Lt.Cmdr Engineer a Hybrid seat would already do much. (And turning the Lt.Cmdr Engineer in to Universal would be a serious upgrade.)
There have been a few ships they altered in unexpected ways. For example, the T6 Bortasque got a turn rate boost, which was unprecedented. The T6 Galaxy grew a lt.cmdr tactical slot which made no sense based on its original stats or its name, and it grew a hangar bay. (The same surprise that happened to the Nausican Destroyer.)
---
I think the real reason is simple - they haven't gotten around to it.
After that (frankly ridiculous) scene in Insurrection with the manual steering column, I kind of expect the T6 Assault Cruiser to have Lt. Pilot seating.
I don't understand this entire post (besides the last bit). They don't have a history of changing the officer seating on t6 versions? Well yeah. They don't change it by much, but you're making it sound like a t6 Sovereign would be obsolete.
I don't know why you're assuming this.
Remember when t5 Galaxy-X transitioned to Yamato? It raised its lt. tac station to lt. cmdr tac, the lt. cmdr engi gained command seating, and a hangar bay was added. Remember when t5 Intrepid transitioned to Pathfinder? It had its ensign sci turn into lt. universal and its lt. engi gained intel. Remember when t5 Prometheus transitioned to Hestia? The lt. engi was bumped up to lt. cmdr engi as well as gaining command. The ensign tac station was initially there, but it was later changed to ensign universal.
You seem to think that they can't do the same with Sovereign. The Regent's lt. engi can gain intel/pilot/command and have its lt. universal raised to lt. cmdr universal. There's really no reason to say that Cryptic wouldn't do this or do something similar.
Regardless of what you think about it stats wise, the t6 Defiant sold. Why? Because it's a t6 Defiant. Many people out there will always choose their favorite ship from the tv show/movie over any other ship IF they could only choose one. My friend, who's favorite series is DS9, was ecstatic when he saw the Defiant was getting a t6 version with a bonus rehaul of its model. My favorite Trek movie is First Contact, and you can bet your bottom dollar that I'll be there flying a t6 Sovereign if it also gets a remodel just like its other hero ship cousins.
Without some special gimmick or something to make it stand out, that's exactly what it would be. It would be obsolete the second it hit the C-Store.
Not assuming anything. 7 bridge officer seats locked to engineering is a horrible waste of BoFF spaces. Aux2Bat is dead, there is no need for that many engineering slots. It would still be better then the horrible Resolute which as an absurd 8 locked Engineering seats, so it would be just slightly better then the worst T6 ship in the game.
A straight T6 version of the current FACR would be a steaming pile of space garbage. If they're willing to give it the 'Galaxy Treatment' and alter it's seating then they might have something interesting. Either way, it's going to need something along the line of Pilot Maneuvers or something similar to make it stand out. As it sits right now, the T6 Sovereign simply has no place. Anything that ship could do is already being done better by another ship.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
This is what I'm talking about in the rest of my post that you replied to.
Huh? @valoreah is right. It's one of the iconic ships in Trek, of course it has a place. Not everyone has the mentality of passing on a ship simply because there are others that are similar or better. I have a plethora of cruisers/dreadnoughts to choose from. I have a Vengeance, which as of right now is possibly the best cruiser/dreadnought to fly in as a fed. Would that stop me from buying a t6 Sovereign or even switching to my other cruisers? Nope.
Probably with a lieutenant commander hybrid strategist seat.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
The assumption is based on every T6 ship they have done to date with the exception of the Galaxy which got an upgraded Tactical seating. The precedent has been long set, the T6 ships are built off the T5 counter parts with the addition of a specialist seat.
And that's great for you, but don't assume that is how most people approach it. The Excelsior class is as Iconic as it gets and how many T6 Resolutes do you see around ESD? They're about as common as a unicorn. Why? Because they're junk.
I want to be clear, I love the Sovereign. I think it's a great design, and I would love a T6 variant, but not if they're going to make it a bad ship. It's bad enough what they did to the Excelsior giving it a ridiculous amount of locked engineering seats, 2 science and 3 tactical consoles, and a garbage trait. I don't want to see the same thing happen to the Sovereign, it deserves better then that.. so did the Excelsior.
I feel like I'm talking in circles here.
I never said that I assume that most people approach my way of ship buying. I'm very well aware that some people put stats first above all else. I started my sentence with "not everyone". You're stating that Sovereign has no place in STO as a t6 ship because it needs something to stand out.
It really doesn't need any pilot maneuvers or anything close to as fancy as that. You are correct about the boff layout from t5 to t6 doesn't change it by much.
It's not that hard to see the difference between t5 ships and their t6 counterparts. It really doesn't go against their history. Because like I said before, look at the difference between t5 Galaxy-X and Yamato, t5 Intrepid and Pathfinder, t5 Prometheus and Hestia, ect.
I have already acknowledged that you could very well be possibly right and that they could go in the direction of the Resolute, but when it comes to the other side of the coin or the point that I'm trying to make to you, you're like "I guess, but what if it really sucks though?" Try not to be so negative.
Once again, if you take the FACR and have its lt. engi can gain intel/pilot/command while also have its lt. universal raised to lt. cmdr universal, then you have a formidable ship. Or they could go with your idea, or something else similar.
Another good point made by @mustrumridcully0 was that the Nausican Destroyer was given a hangar bay on its t6 version. Not to mention the fact that the Kara Advanced Warbird (t6 Ha'apax/Haakona) was given a plasma spinal lance out of nowhere. These decisions were unprecedented when you compare them to their t5 counterparts. Could the Sovereign follow the path of the Resolute? Yes, you could be right. Could it also not and instead follow Yamato, Pathfinder, ect, ect.? Yes as well.
There it is. It doesn't have to be a bad ship. Again, it could turn out that way, sure, but at the end of the day, there's really no guarantee that says a t6 Sovereign would be garbage. So no, I respectfully disagree with you when you say that t6 Sovereign has no place in this game. That is all I'm trying to say.
I think Cryptic has proven with something like the wondrous changes the Galaxy or the Kolasi experienced that they do try to optimize their ship stats to sell them better.
We can guarantee three things:
We do not know:
So we have as basis either:
Standard Assault Cruiser
Assault Cruiser Refit
I don't like the Refit seating much. The Lt.Universal is still basically locked into Science, nothing else will really make sense.
I could see a few ways to go from there, some bad, some good.
I think if they take the Standard Tier 5 layout as basis, the Lt.Cmdr Engineering either has to become Hybrid or Universal. The obvious choice is boosting the Lt.Tactical to Lt.Cmdr.Tactical. They could instead boost the Ensign Tactical to Lt. Universal.
Let me slightly amend my statement then and see if that helps bring us a little closer in opinion.
I believe that if they released a T6 Sovereign that followed a straight upgrade path based on the FACR, then that ship specifically would have no place in the current game.
I agree that it doesn't have to be a bad ship, I'm just not fully confident that it won't be. In my opinion.. a T6 version of the T5U FACR would be 'a bad ship.' And I believe that the majority of players would feel the same way, putting another great iconic ship in the scrap yard right next to the once proud Excelsior. I still however, believe that even if the bridge officer seating is 'fixed' it would still need something more to set it apart. That could be a unique seating option (like Pilot on a Cruiser for example) or even a dual specialization seating, a feature currently only found on Lobi/Lock Box ships. Again, to be clear.. I'm not saying I believe this will happen, I can almost guarantee that it won't. At least with a revamped BoFF seating though, it could be viable for those that really just want to fly a Sovereign. In it's current rendition, I don't believe that it's iconic look would overcome it's tremendous flaws for most people. In the end, we both want a T6 Sovereign that doesn't suck, we just have a base disagreement on what makes a ship 'suck,' and that's fine. This is all a matter of opinion based on a hypothetical ship, so it's all good either way.
What I don't want is to see it come out as another Engineering Heavy Command Cruiser. That market is already WAY over saturated. Giving it Pilot, Intel, or even Temporal Operative seating would be a huge step in the right direction. Sorry if you feel you're 'talking in circles,' I am seeing your points and felt the discussion was rather fruitful up to this point.
Agreed.
I don't doubt that it could be made an attractive option, my doubt is Cryptic's willingness to do so. Perhaps they'll surprise us all.
In other words, they sold out.
Engineer seating: D'kora -- 1 Lt, 1 Cmd; Assault Cruiser Refit -- 1 Lt, 1 Cmd
Science seating: D'kora -- 1 Lt; Assault Cruiser Refit -- None (this Lt seat became a Universal in the ACR)
Tactical seating: D'kora -- 1 Ens; 1 LtC, Assault Cruiser Refit -- 1 Ens, 1 LtC
Universal seating: D'kora -- None; Assault Cruiser Refit -- 1 Lt (swapped out the D'kora's Science seat in exchange)
If they maintain a comparable arrangement with the Nagus, as they did in the D'kora/ACR case.
Engineer seating: Nagus -- 1 Lt, 1 Cmd; T6 Sov -- 1 Lt, 1 Cmd
Science seating: Nagus -- 1 Lt; T6 Sov -- None, this seat would still be a Lt Universal seat.
Tactical seating: Nagus -- 1 LtC; T6 Sov -- 1 Lt (It switches the Nagus' Universal seat to Tac), 1 LtC
Universal seating: Nagus -- 1 Lt; T6 Sov -- 1 Lt
The loss of the Lt Science slot and changing it to Universal would be maintained to keep a semblance of difference between the two ships, as was done in the D'kora/ACR case. I make no claims that the T6 Sovereign will have Intel seating.
Prometheus --- Hestia
Negh'Var --- Negh'Tev
Avenger --- Arbiter
Vor'Cha --- Tor'Kaht
Ambassador --- Guardian
Some of those could be defined as sub-classes but the premise for the change is the same.
They could do it if they eant to. Who knows? Maybe they already have and are waiting to release it closer to Sept. 8.
Join Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010
Sell by the truckload.