The [Pen] mod is an effective -10 HULL resistance only for that torpedo impact
I will further elaborate on the two different armor penetration in this game that I think many people either mix up or misunderstand.
The first type of armor penetration like the Delta reputation trait gives you a direct and flat % negation of your target's resistance, and that regardless of its armor rating. Whether your target has 100 or 1000 armor rating you will always negate or rather ignore 5% damage resistance (Delta trait) and 15% (Subwarp Sheath). This makes these two traits very useful in all kinds of situations and very solid against any targets... even those with very high armor rating.
The second type of armor penetration is that from the [PEN] weapon modifier. What this one does is provide -10 armor rating. Effectively, it reduces the target's armor rating by a value of 10. Armor rating has diminishing returns which means that the higher the target's innate armor rating, the less effectiveness the [PEN] modifier has. Here is an example of why with fictional scaling numbers.
10 rating = 10% resistance
20 rating = 20%
30 rating = 30%
40 rating = 40%
50 rating = 50% (The PEN modifier only useful up to this point with 10% damage resistance negation)
100 rating = 60% (diminishing returns would start here)
200 rating = 70%
400 rating = 80%
800 rating = 90%
1600 rating = 100%
From 10 to 50 armor rating the negation of -10 rating from the [PEN] modifier would effectively and consistently ignore 10% damage resistance. Anything beyond that and the target would need a lot more armor rating to gain damage resistance. This also means that the [PEN] modifier needs to go through the same amount of armor rating that is added because of the diminishing returns. So if the [PEN] modifier brings 1600 armor rating down to 1590 then it would no longer equal ignoring 10% damage resistance. Instead it would probably amount to something like 0.1% or even less.
So the [PEN] modifier is very useful against targets with low amount of armor rating, whereas the Delta and Subwarp Sheath % armor penetration will always ignore their amount of damage resistance.
Cryptic devs have for a long time tried to improve the standing of torpedoes.
Oh? Is that why Bort nerfed the sh*t out of the Neutronic and Quantum torp?! Every time torps look like they might be good again, Bort comes in and ruins the fun again. Ugh!
Cryptic devs have for a long time tried to improve the standing of torpedoes.
Oh? Is that why Bort nerfed the sh*t out of the Neutronic and Quantum torp?! Every time torps look like they might be good again, Bort comes in and ruins the fun again. Ugh!
It was stated that it was a band-aid for the client and server performance issues that were being experienced at the time. Since those issues have been fixed, and it has been demonstrated that those changes are indeed a performance loss, it is only logical that the changes be reversed, or at least modified, so that their performance would equal what they were before the major change.
Cryptic devs have for a long time tried to improve the standing of torpedoes.
Oh? Is that why Bort nerfed the sh*t out of the Neutronic and Quantum torp?! Every time torps look like they might be good again, Bort comes in and ruins the fun again. Ugh!
It was stated that it was a band-aid for the client and server performance issues that were being experienced at the time. Since those issues have been fixed, and it has been demonstrated that those changes are indeed a performance loss, it is only logical that the changes be reversed, or at least modified, so that their performance would equal what they were before the major change.
Yes, let's hope that happens soon. I get how applying Neutronic to every wee target allegedly caused server lag, but making torps weaker isn't going to bring back torps as a viable alternative to beams (except in your hands, of course). Torps need a buff, and *stay* buffed.
Cryptic devs have for a long time tried to improve the standing of torpedoes.
Oh? Is that why Bort nerfed the sh*t out of the Neutronic and Quantum torp?! Every time torps look like they might be good again, Bort comes in and ruins the fun again. Ugh!
It was stated that it was a band-aid for the client and server performance issues that were being experienced at the time. Since those issues have been fixed, and it has been demonstrated that those changes are indeed a performance loss, it is only logical that the changes be reversed, or at least modified, so that their performance would equal what they were before the major change.
Yes, let's hope that happens soon. I get how applying Neutronic to every wee target allegedly caused server lag, but making torps weaker isn't going to bring back torps as a viable alternative to beams (except in your hands, of course). Torps need a buff, and *stay* buffed.
We just need more people to calmly stay on top of this... and enjoy a Sisko rant every now and then
The whole torp spread thing with the Neutronic and quantum phase torps could be improved greatly if they just proc' don each target once. The performance issues were from anything up to 20+ torps all going off with and AOE at once, but the solution was to take a machete to the mechanics so it only now goes off on a single target. So in these cases spread is useless. Allowing one proc per target would be at least halfway decent.
There seems to be more community support for this than initially thought. Can we have the people from this thread bring someone who normally does not visit the forums and have them post here?
Photons are my torp of choice, pack a punch and very quick reload time, been trying the kelvin photon up front on my kelvin phaser eclipse and they have their pack a good bang for your ec
Post edited by theraven2378 on
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Hey @darkknightucf I have put a thread up on my fleet's forums asking for any kinetic users to come here to show some support. Hopefully word can get round that this isn't just a minority bunch of us grumbling on this forum alone!
Hope I'm not repeating anything but I challenged myself to do a full transphasic build mines and tops on tac B'Rel. The idea based off of Aventine's push to max transphasics. https://m.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/comments/3ezns5/uss_kate_upton_aventine_transphasic_torpboat/ Sometimes I just like to explore going all in on an idea going against the grain. My main problem was upgrading breen torps not gaining rarity. It was pretty fun laying out mines everywhere. There is no best if you play how you like.
The purpose of a Torp Boat is not to achieve reliable DPS; the purpose of a torp boat is to achieve massive spike damage.
Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying you should ignore DPS. I'm saying that DPS is a secondary consideration to the ability to spike an enemy hull.
To that end, torp boats require timing. Transphasics are good for players who shoot torps at shielded targets. But your goal should be to drop an enemy's shield facing and dump a torp spread into it. On a dead shield facing, even Chroniton Torps can do massive spike damage.
For my purposes, Quantums are the best compromise. Certainly Tricobalts can achieve the highest spike damage, even to the extent of a single Tric hit blowing an unshielded 'scort away, but I find they are almost always on cooldown when I need them for that critical window between taking the shield facing down and the enemy getting it restored. Photons fire fast and do significant damage, (especially the modified ones such as BioMolecular,) but they cannot achieve the spike damage potential of a Quantum torp spread.
I will mention that for a PvP build, don't overlook those other torp types. The otherwise useless Chroniton Torps, for example, can give a shielded and otherwise difficult to fight target a really bad day if you are cycling torp spreads at it (while still being effective against spam.) As a player there is really no way to resist the Chroniton proc. Other torp types might exploit an enemy's specific kinetic resistance build as well. In this case, there is no such thing as a 'worst' torp type. Those Transphasics may be just the thing when dealing with a player who has a shield-tank build, for example, while Quantums bounce harmlessly off his reinforced and hardened shields.
However, for all torp types, a down shield facing is the target of choice. Learning to time it so the enemy has no opportunity to buff his shield before your torp spread hits is the key to success in a torp boat, regardless of the chosen type of torp. To this end, a Torp Boat player should always make use of Subsystem Targeting attacks. I also highly recommend Phaser weapons with high ACC traits, even if your weapons power level is set to minimum. That moment when you see the 'OFFLINE' result is always a good opportunity to drop a spread, but you will have only a very few seconds to do so. Your torps must be ready to fire; a weapon on cooldown at this critical stage means the target has time to recover and no matter which type of torp you use it will bounce.
So, as I said, the Quantum appears to me to be a superior choice. Certainly Photons will fire three times for every two shots of your Quantums, but when you time it right a Quantum Torpedo Spread I slamming into an open shield facing is a difficult thing for any ship in the game to survive. Slower loading torps are far more likely to be reloading at that critical moment, and less powerful torps won't get you into 20k + spike damage range that you can achieve easily with a Quantum crit.
The purpose of a Torp Boat is not to achieve reliable DPS; the purpose of a torp boat is to achieve massive spike damage.
Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying you should ignore DPS. I'm saying that DPS is a secondary consideration to the ability to spike an enemy hull.
With the current mechanics in game, Torp captains have no other choice but to throw as much spike damage down range as quickly as possible, and use Traits like Weapon System Synergy, Self-Modulating Fire, and any shield weakening/shield bypass mechanics available, and/or brute force and/or remove shields & reducepower levels. Science used to pair well with Torpedo ships, but with the latest skill tree, Science can stand on its own 100% and not need to be paired with torps at all.
1. Work on piloting. Think at least one move ahead at all times and position accordingly.
2. DO NOT use autofire. This is a play style choice, but I'm studying other up-and-coming torpedo pilots, and there's a distinct pattern between players who auto-fire torps and players who don't. Exception: Any torpedo that does NOT cause the global cooldown for other torpedoes can be set to autofire.
3. Shot selection and shot timing is crucial. Knowing what to shoot, where, when, calculating travel time, and picking the right target for all of the above will take you from a 5K player to a 35K+ player w/ MK XII gear.
Transphasics are good for players who shoot torps at shielded targets. But your goal should be to drop an enemy's shield facing and dump a torp spread into it. On a dead shield facing, even Chroniton Torps can do massive spike damage.
Transphasics, IMHO, are "good" for Normal STF's, where the target hulls are much lower. Transphasics lost their punch in the low 50's in leveling, and have fallen to the wayside with the Rep torpedoes being better in most performance measurements.
Furthermore, with the amount of shield regen that all of the big targets have (especially in Advanced and Elite STF's), dropping shield facings is a near impossibility for the average player vs those targets.
For my purposes, Quantums are the best compromise. Certainly Tricobalts can achieve the highest spike damage, even to the extent of a single Tric hit blowing an unshielded 'scort away, but I find they are almost always on cooldown when I need them for that critical window between taking the shield facing down and the enemy getting it restored. Photons fire fast and do significant damage, (especially the modified ones such as BioMolecular,) but they cannot achieve the spike damage potential of a Quantum torp spread.
I will mention that for a PvP build, don't overlook those other torp types. The otherwise useless Chroniton Torps, for example, can give a shielded and otherwise difficult to fight target a really bad day if you are cycling torp spreads at it (while still being effective against spam.) As a player there is really no way to resist the Chroniton proc. Other torp types might exploit an enemy's specific kinetic resistance build as well. In this case, there is no such thing as a 'worst' torp type. Those Transphasics may be just the thing when dealing with a player who has a shield-tank build, for example, while Quantums bounce harmlessly off his reinforced and hardened shields.
Chronitons will not work against any speed tanker, due to the nature of the code checking buffs vs debuffs and see which wins vs what. On top of that, APO = "Get out of whatever Free + kick your TRIBBLE$" power, which defeats the slows of both Chronitons and PEP. FYI, you're better off using PEP over a Chroniton, as it will do more damage vs a shielded target AND stop them until they use a HazEm, EPtE, Evasive, APO, etc.
If I use a Transphasic against a player, it will be the Resonant Transphasic, for its debuffing potential (which synergizes so well with the Temporal Tree.
VS Shield Tankers (if any are left), load up on 3x BO DOffs, get an [Over] beam, get BO1, and go to town with the biggest & fastest torps you can fire at them. Add in OKS for a nasty DOT, and win.
However, for all torp types, a down shield facing is the target of choice. Learning to time it so the enemy has no opportunity to buff his shield before your torp spread hits is the key to success in a torp boat, regardless of the chosen type of torp. To this end, a Torp Boat player should always make use of Subsystem Targeting attacks. I also highly recommend Phaser weapons with high ACC traits, even if your weapons power level is set to minimum. That moment when you see the 'OFFLINE' result is always a good opportunity to drop a spread, but you will have only a very few seconds to do so. Your torps must be ready to fire; a weapon on cooldown at this critical stage means the target has time to recover and no matter which type of torp you use it will bounce.
Subsystem Targetting and Phaser procs are not as good or as reliable as they once were. In short, you have better options now with DrainX + Quantum Phase + Neutronic to deal with shielded targets vs relying on either of the aforementioned. Furthermore, proper use of High Yield, along with the right torpedo(es), will yield better results vs Torpedo Spread use alone.
So, as I said, the Quantum appears to me to be a superior choice. Certainly Photons will fire three times for every two shots of your Quantums, but when you time it right a Quantum Torpedo Spread I slamming into an open shield facing is a difficult thing for any ship in the game to survive. Slower loading torps are far more likely to be reloading at that critical moment, and less powerful torps won't get you into 20k + spike damage range that you can achieve easily with a Quantum crit.
While I agree with the use of Quantums for a hard-hitting salvo torpedo build, it really does come down to the right set of torps for the right job(s), paired with the right build. A Quantum Phase Torp Spread will strip shields, but if I want to help keep those shields lowered longer, follow up with a Neutronic HY. Want to hit hard after punching through shields and softening them up; Enhanced Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo (EBM) fired under HY. Have a high EPG build and want something that pairs well with a Grav Well; PEP under TS is your best option, followed by Gravimetric at a distant second.
The one thing about torpedoes in this game is that you have options based off of the kind of build that you want to do, and it will compliment other abilities well (once the bugs are fixed). The Rep & Special Torps give Torpedo Starships a much-needed reprieve vs the content and archaic mechanics. Now, it's time for torps to share in the powerCreep that energy weapons are benefitting from.. especially all that haste...
Yes, it is a stand alone torpedo and doesn't use HY or TS but in my opinion no torpedo build is complete without a "Peng"
The Peng is interesting, no doubt. The thing that makes it so underappreciated is the fact that much of its damage comes from the "Hargh'Peng Radiation" proc, which is hard to quantify, and does not seem to show up on damage parsers. AND, if you don't read the description carefully, you can miss the fact that the lump-sum proc damage is applied twice - once at the first impact, and again when the proc ends, assuming it hasn't been removed with Hazard Emitters or some such.
If you want to constantly spit out torpedoes, photons are your best option with their reload speed
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Yes, it is a stand alone torpedo and doesn't use HY or TS but in my opinion no torpedo build is complete without a "Peng"
The Peng is interesting, no doubt. The thing that makes it so underappreciated is the fact that much of its damage comes from the "Hargh'Peng Radiation" proc, which is hard to quantify, and does not seem to show up on damage parsers. AND, if you don't read the description carefully, you can miss the fact that the lump-sum proc damage is applied twice - once at the first impact, and again when the proc ends, assuming it hasn't been removed with Hazard Emitters or some such.
It's nice for a filler torp w/ a decent proc, but (as of last test) it isn't boosted by any of the torpedo consoles, and with the plethora of other torpedoes available, it's been left alone for a while (except for radiation-heavy Sci builds).
I was running MK 14 Gold Gravimetric Launcher, it does insane Damage. But, recently switched over to the Kelvin Torpedoes for the look and the Reload. Even without the chance for Gravity Well, at MK 14 gold when they hit, especially High Yield or Scatter 3, They hit like a freight train.
Tieberion, Captain of the USS Excalibur NX-97000-B
I' particularly interested in the Kelvin torps, simply for the pure fun to be had with them rapid-firing. I'm putting together a pure Kelvin torp bomber with the intention to just throw a near constant stream of torps at the enemy, the second any shield facing drops there will already be a torp on the way to the target. And that flight speed....that is what all torps should be doing.
The Peng with missiles and a reload doff is one of my fav shuttle torp builds. You end up with a lot of AoE blasts that are deadly against shuttle/fighter groups.
I' particularly interested in the Kelvin torps, simply for the pure fun to be had with them rapid-firing. I'm putting together a pure Kelvin torp bomber with the intention to just throw a near constant stream of torps at the enemy, the second any shield facing drops there will already be a torp on the way to the target.
And that flight speed....that is what all torps should be doing.
I was stupid enough to miss Upgrade Weekend, but next on my list is that Temporal torp. The console that's part of that set looks incredibly lame, though. It better come with wicked set bonuses, or I'll forego on that set altogether (and just stick with the torp).
I' particularly interested in the Kelvin torps, simply for the pure fun to be had with them rapid-firing. I'm putting together a pure Kelvin torp bomber with the intention to just throw a near constant stream of torps at the enemy, the second any shield facing drops there will already be a torp on the way to the target.
And that flight speed....that is what all torps should be doing.
I was stupid enough to miss Upgrade Weekend, but next on my list is that Temporal torp. The console that's part of that set looks incredibly lame, though. It better come with wicked set bonuses, or I'll forego on that set altogether (and just stick with the torp).
There are two temporal torps that work really well together. The advanced temporal torp with temporal disruption torp is a lot of fun. My recent build which is more for fun then high end has the trait and Rom set for x2 speed boost to destructible torps. Add on the new Temporal Operative rep and the destructible torps have a x2 speed boost, extra defence and hitpoints so rarely got shot down. The defence by itself is useless but works nicely with the extra hitpoints. Combined with high yield and con fire power you end up with a lot of cluster mine shots and a lot of high power 30k+ base damage shots that crit into the muti 100k’s. It works really well for solo play and in random groups but even with the redirect I expect it’s to slow for high end runs.
Then again I do then to favoure mines and this build has a lot of mines with all those cluster shots added with dispersal patterns. Not a build for everyone but more then good enough to get bye.
I' particularly interested in the Kelvin torps, simply for the pure fun to be had with them rapid-firing. I'm putting together a pure Kelvin torp bomber with the intention to just throw a near constant stream of torps at the enemy, the second any shield facing drops there will already be a torp on the way to the target.
And that flight speed....that is what all torps should be doing.
I was stupid enough to miss Upgrade Weekend, but next on my list is that Temporal torp. The console that's part of that set looks incredibly lame, though. It better come with wicked set bonuses, or I'll forego on that set altogether (and just stick with the torp).
There are two temporal torps that work really well together. The advanced temporal torp with temporal disruption torp is a lot of fun. My recent build which is more for fun then high end has the trait and Rom set for x2 speed boost to destructible torps. Add on the new Temporal Operative rep and the destructible torps have a x2 speed boost, extra defence and hitpoints so rarely got shot down. The defence by itself is useless but works nicely with the extra hitpoints. Combined with high yield and con fire power you end up with a lot of cluster mine shots and a lot of high power 30k+ base damage shots that crit into the muti 100k’s. It works really well for solo play and in random groups but even with the redirect I expect it’s to slow for high end runs.
Then again I do then to favoure mines and this build has a lot of mines with all those cluster shots added with dispersal patterns. Not a build for everyone but more then good enough to get bye.
Thanks. Guess I really need to start looking into this KT torp!
My aoy torpsci uses gravimetric, neutronic, and a few kelvins woth 3x proj doffs. yes @meimeitoo the kelvin torps are pretty slick with the rapid mod and proj doffs theyre very good
Comments
I will further elaborate on the two different armor penetration in this game that I think many people either mix up or misunderstand.
The first type of armor penetration like the Delta reputation trait gives you a direct and flat % negation of your target's resistance, and that regardless of its armor rating. Whether your target has 100 or 1000 armor rating you will always negate or rather ignore 5% damage resistance (Delta trait) and 15% (Subwarp Sheath). This makes these two traits very useful in all kinds of situations and very solid against any targets... even those with very high armor rating.
The second type of armor penetration is that from the [PEN] weapon modifier. What this one does is provide -10 armor rating. Effectively, it reduces the target's armor rating by a value of 10. Armor rating has diminishing returns which means that the higher the target's innate armor rating, the less effectiveness the [PEN] modifier has. Here is an example of why with fictional scaling numbers.
10 rating = 10% resistance
20 rating = 20%
30 rating = 30%
40 rating = 40%
50 rating = 50% (The PEN modifier only useful up to this point with 10% damage resistance negation)
100 rating = 60% (diminishing returns would start here)
200 rating = 70%
400 rating = 80%
800 rating = 90%
1600 rating = 100%
From 10 to 50 armor rating the negation of -10 rating from the [PEN] modifier would effectively and consistently ignore 10% damage resistance. Anything beyond that and the target would need a lot more armor rating to gain damage resistance. This also means that the [PEN] modifier needs to go through the same amount of armor rating that is added because of the diminishing returns. So if the [PEN] modifier brings 1600 armor rating down to 1590 then it would no longer equal ignoring 10% damage resistance. Instead it would probably amount to something like 0.1% or even less.
So the [PEN] modifier is very useful against targets with low amount of armor rating, whereas the Delta and Subwarp Sheath % armor penetration will always ignore their amount of damage resistance.
Oh? Is that why Bort nerfed the sh*t out of the Neutronic and Quantum torp?! Every time torps look like they might be good again, Bort comes in and ruins the fun again. Ugh!
It was stated that it was a band-aid for the client and server performance issues that were being experienced at the time. Since those issues have been fixed, and it has been demonstrated that those changes are indeed a performance loss, it is only logical that the changes be reversed, or at least modified, so that their performance would equal what they were before the major change.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Yes, let's hope that happens soon.
We just need more people to calmly stay on top of this... and enjoy a Sisko rant every now and then
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Allowing one proc per target would be at least halfway decent.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
The Kelvin torps DO fly faster than standard photon/quantum torpedoes. *sigh* Standard torpedo flight speed can be adjusted.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying you should ignore DPS. I'm saying that DPS is a secondary consideration to the ability to spike an enemy hull.
To that end, torp boats require timing. Transphasics are good for players who shoot torps at shielded targets. But your goal should be to drop an enemy's shield facing and dump a torp spread into it. On a dead shield facing, even Chroniton Torps can do massive spike damage.
For my purposes, Quantums are the best compromise. Certainly Tricobalts can achieve the highest spike damage, even to the extent of a single Tric hit blowing an unshielded 'scort away, but I find they are almost always on cooldown when I need them for that critical window between taking the shield facing down and the enemy getting it restored. Photons fire fast and do significant damage, (especially the modified ones such as BioMolecular,) but they cannot achieve the spike damage potential of a Quantum torp spread.
I will mention that for a PvP build, don't overlook those other torp types. The otherwise useless Chroniton Torps, for example, can give a shielded and otherwise difficult to fight target a really bad day if you are cycling torp spreads at it (while still being effective against spam.) As a player there is really no way to resist the Chroniton proc. Other torp types might exploit an enemy's specific kinetic resistance build as well. In this case, there is no such thing as a 'worst' torp type. Those Transphasics may be just the thing when dealing with a player who has a shield-tank build, for example, while Quantums bounce harmlessly off his reinforced and hardened shields.
However, for all torp types, a down shield facing is the target of choice. Learning to time it so the enemy has no opportunity to buff his shield before your torp spread hits is the key to success in a torp boat, regardless of the chosen type of torp. To this end, a Torp Boat player should always make use of Subsystem Targeting attacks. I also highly recommend Phaser weapons with high ACC traits, even if your weapons power level is set to minimum. That moment when you see the 'OFFLINE' result is always a good opportunity to drop a spread, but you will have only a very few seconds to do so. Your torps must be ready to fire; a weapon on cooldown at this critical stage means the target has time to recover and no matter which type of torp you use it will bounce.
So, as I said, the Quantum appears to me to be a superior choice. Certainly Photons will fire three times for every two shots of your Quantums, but when you time it right a Quantum Torpedo Spread I slamming into an open shield facing is a difficult thing for any ship in the game to survive. Slower loading torps are far more likely to be reloading at that critical moment, and less powerful torps won't get you into 20k + spike damage range that you can achieve easily with a Quantum crit.
With the current mechanics in game, Torp captains have no other choice but to throw as much spike damage down range as quickly as possible, and use Traits like Weapon System Synergy, Self-Modulating Fire, and any shield weakening/shield bypass mechanics available, and/or brute force and/or remove shields & reducepower levels. Science used to pair well with Torpedo ships, but with the latest skill tree, Science can stand on its own 100% and not need to be paired with torps at all.
Something I have been saying almost 2yrs ago:
1. Work on piloting. Think at least one move ahead at all times and position accordingly.
2. DO NOT use autofire. This is a play style choice, but I'm studying other up-and-coming torpedo pilots, and there's a distinct pattern between players who auto-fire torps and players who don't. Exception: Any torpedo that does NOT cause the global cooldown for other torpedoes can be set to autofire.
3. Shot selection and shot timing is crucial. Knowing what to shoot, where, when, calculating travel time, and picking the right target for all of the above will take you from a 5K player to a 35K+ player w/ MK XII gear.
Transphasics, IMHO, are "good" for Normal STF's, where the target hulls are much lower. Transphasics lost their punch in the low 50's in leveling, and have fallen to the wayside with the Rep torpedoes being better in most performance measurements.
Furthermore, with the amount of shield regen that all of the big targets have (especially in Advanced and Elite STF's), dropping shield facings is a near impossibility for the average player vs those targets.
Chronitons will not work against any speed tanker, due to the nature of the code checking buffs vs debuffs and see which wins vs what. On top of that, APO = "Get out of whatever Free + kick your TRIBBLE$" power, which defeats the slows of both Chronitons and PEP. FYI, you're better off using PEP over a Chroniton, as it will do more damage vs a shielded target AND stop them until they use a HazEm, EPtE, Evasive, APO, etc.
If I use a Transphasic against a player, it will be the Resonant Transphasic, for its debuffing potential (which synergizes so well with the Temporal Tree.
VS Shield Tankers (if any are left), load up on 3x BO DOffs, get an [Over] beam, get BO1, and go to town with the biggest & fastest torps you can fire at them. Add in OKS for a nasty DOT, and win.
Subsystem Targetting and Phaser procs are not as good or as reliable as they once were. In short, you have better options now with DrainX + Quantum Phase + Neutronic to deal with shielded targets vs relying on either of the aforementioned. Furthermore, proper use of High Yield, along with the right torpedo(es), will yield better results vs Torpedo Spread use alone.
While I agree with the use of Quantums for a hard-hitting salvo torpedo build, it really does come down to the right set of torps for the right job(s), paired with the right build. A Quantum Phase Torp Spread will strip shields, but if I want to help keep those shields lowered longer, follow up with a Neutronic HY. Want to hit hard after punching through shields and softening them up; Enhanced Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo (EBM) fired under HY. Have a high EPG build and want something that pairs well with a Grav Well; PEP under TS is your best option, followed by Gravimetric at a distant second.
The one thing about torpedoes in this game is that you have options based off of the kind of build that you want to do, and it will compliment other abilities well (once the bugs are fixed). The Rep & Special Torps give Torpedo Starships a much-needed reprieve vs the content and archaic mechanics. Now, it's time for torps to share in the powerCreep that energy weapons are benefitting from.. especially all that haste...
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
The Peng is interesting, no doubt. The thing that makes it so underappreciated is the fact that much of its damage comes from the "Hargh'Peng Radiation" proc, which is hard to quantify, and does not seem to show up on damage parsers. AND, if you don't read the description carefully, you can miss the fact that the lump-sum proc damage is applied twice - once at the first impact, and again when the proc ends, assuming it hasn't been removed with Hazard Emitters or some such.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
It's nice for a filler torp w/ a decent proc, but (as of last test) it isn't boosted by any of the torpedo consoles, and with the plethora of other torpedoes available, it's been left alone for a while (except for radiation-heavy Sci builds).
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
And that flight speed....that is what all torps should be doing.
I was stupid enough to miss Upgrade Weekend, but next on my list is that Temporal torp. The console that's part of that set looks incredibly lame, though. It better come with wicked set bonuses, or I'll forego on that set altogether (and just stick with the torp).
Then again I do then to favoure mines and this build has a lot of mines with all those cluster shots added with dispersal patterns. Not a build for everyone but more then good enough to get bye.
Thanks.