test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Options
Long Live the Trinity...!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hyefather
Member Posts: 1,286 Arc User
The way we are able to pick our skills now along with a gazillion traits (ship, personal, rep, bla bla bal). Should cryptic start designing our 5 man space/ground missions to revolve arouind a dedicated Tank, Healer and some DPS. I think if done right it could be the best thing that ever happened to STO. I even think they should go back and rework all the older space missions to reflect the Trinity gameplay. Whats your opinion. All I know is this, the last dozen or so space missions that I have done. Everyone just zooms in, kills everything ane zooms out. Not one (1) person says GG or anything anymore. Hell, people used to at least spam their dps addon to brag about doing 200k dps. Not anymore. People just don't give a TRIBBLE. Thats one reason why I think the Trinity would bring new life back into the old girl. Social interaction. I mean if a MMO isn't social then what is it? I'm all for it and I hope it eventually happens. I think it needs it more than I want it tbh. What do you think?
0
Comments
And honestly, they should just remove the trinity all together. It never really made sense in the context of Star Trek, beyond the bridge officers / away team. Captains should have only had one profession: command. Tactical, engineering, and science would have worked better as specializations. The trinity is especially useless on starships, where the lines between cruiser, escort, etc. are arbitrary, which ends up dictating their stats.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
I personally wouldn't mind them bringing it in, I typically like playing healer/support roles in groups, but I suspect most players would be opposed.
Me too.
However we all know that DPS is 'king' especially now it is even easier to get DPS and therefore easier to just shoot first and be done in 5 seconds rather than 10!
Many (most?) of the players are casuals who raid infrequently if at all. Since they spend most of their time in story episodes they need to focus on DPS, plus heals to themselves. They can't tank to cover a DPS because there is no other ship. They can't heal other ships because there are no other ships. So the trinity does not make sense in space, in story episodes.
SWTOR has the trinity, but it is all ground combat, and you have a companion. So you can be a healer with a tank or DPS companion, or a tank with a healer or DPS companion. You can stay in your role for the story missions not just in raids.
Unless STO adds NPC companion ships, forcing the trinity will just hurt the casuals. And they pay too much into the game for Cryptic to want to hurt them.
Ships are arguably the most defining part of space combat, and we can currently switch them pretty much whenever we want. You can easily "switch spec" by switching your ships and/or loadout. The one problem is that our skills are locked to a single build, so you either have to build for general purposes or repeatedly buy respec tokens, neither of which is particularly desireable. Obviously it wouldn't be a good idea to have each ship have its own skill setup, for a variety of reasons, but I see no reason we couldn't at least have a second or third spec, even if they have to be unlocked through the C-Store.
The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
Trinity and hybrid classes and maybe even the option of having a NPC "merc" ship you can equip and which helps with your shortcomings in solo content would have been a good move. Of course you cannot turn around the game as it is now - every change so fundamental requires to start over.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Ships in the TV shows and movies did their own DPS, tanking and healing.
Most people here love that there is no strict trinity and it's part of the reason they play STO over other MMOs. For me it's one of the many things I dislike about this game ... in fact if it wasn't for the Trek license and the space combat I would probably be on some other forum somewhere trashing this game.
If it weren't for the Trek license this game would have been dead a long time ago for a whole host of reasons.
Champions has it's own draw: super heroes. Take that away and it's the same as taking trek away from STO
That game's on an artificial respirator though right?
We discussed this quite a bit on the last episode of The SHOW, along w/ meta vs non-meta builds.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
All the necessary elements of the trinity system already exist, if they just nerf self heals, buff outgoing heals, and get NPC damage to the point that tanks are mandatory, we would have a trinity system without significantly altering gameplay.
That would mean even less people willing to play queues.
In SWTOR, queues used to have very long waits to pop if you were a DPS instead of a tank or healer, because most players wanted to be DPS, just like in STO. That's nice if you're a tank or healer, not so nice for the majority of players.
So SWTOR created new queues that would work with 4 x DPS.
As someone who's played WoW since vanilla, I've come to expect that every time I go into a new MMO, and something I don't see a problem with. It also encourages you to try more than one play style, I've played and enjoyed all three roles in WoW, but I've never done anything except DPS in STO because ... why should I?
1- Ease of use. They do not want to create content that is excluded from the majority of the playerbase. As such they have never given much credence to designing the standard style dragon raid boss encounter. They create boss encounters. They create hard content. They get creative with the content they create. But it's a very clear message: This is not a Dragon Raid with a Dungeon Crawl to get to the Dragon.
2- Customization that breaks traditional class limitations. They don't like the trinity. So in City of Heroes, they didn't like the trinity. In Champions they didn't even like having classes until they went F2P. And the most popular thing about Champions is still to this day the freeform archetype where you can build whatever the heck you want. In STO they watered down the trinity and faced implementation problems with it anyways (space vs. ground). They had to have it in Neverwinter, but that's not even called an MMO by their top brass.
I don't know. I mean there's a lot of other games out there to scratch that itch for traditional MMO tropes and class roles. I don't see this development team changing course. Why do you guys think they'll switch direction now? Forcing players to group, forcing class roles, and trying to police behavior through access to content is going to push negatively through with their fans and players to an extent that I don't think they view it as financially successful. And this game makes profit a-OK right now.
Oh I know for a fact it'll never happen, I just really really really wish it would, cause it would easily triple my enjoyment of the game, and it would completely eliminate the "this game is just a mindless dps race" complaint I see all the time.
Understood, and my main was a healer in SWTOR. But Cryptic wants STO to appeal to Trek fans first, MMO players second. So given a choice between "do what you want" and "obey the trinity" they are going to continue to favor the player's choice.
Because of that design, nothing is stopping you in playing as a Trinity too. We accidentally formed a Trinity group in this run and it was fun.
We had so much fun we moved the group to HSE
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
No. I hae that tired old mechanic and it does not fit Star Trek at all.
Ships and crews are self sufficient. They have to be, because of all the single ship thing star trek has going on.
Every player should be able (and by now can be) to keep himself afloat.
For teams that want more teamplay, we already have cross tanking and healing.
But it is optional, which is good because of how much the game relies on casuals.
The casual gamer does not like to interact with other players in any other way but to shoot the same thing together.
Missions like Borg disconnected and Spire Assault demonstrate that the palyerbase simply is not "in" for social interaction.
People do not read chat, they do not follow mission instructions. They are at point to damn stupid to recognize what is to be done to win.
Making more missions that require me to rely on a playerbase that simply does not want to talk or co-op properly is a horrible thing.
No thx.
That is simply not true for a number of reasons.
Speaking in-universe, it is true that Starfleet designs most of their ships as multi-mission vessels that usually operate alone. This can also be reflected in a trinity model, it's called hybrid classes. Starfleet would profit from this versatility over specialized ships like Klingons would field (ironically, in the early days Cryptic got that completely wrong and gave versatile ships to Klingons and specialists to Starfleet). But even in the shows you don't see a Defiant or Miranda undertake the same missions as a Galaxy or Sovereign, for good reasons. A single frigate cannot be expected to form the anchor point in a battle or undertake year long solo missions in deep space. Even Star Trek knows ship classifications and mission profiles.
Second aspect under which that statement is wrong is gameplay. This is a game, not a show - and not a single Star Trek game in existence has made it so that all ships are equal and can do everything. Take Starfleet Command, the academies, bridge commander - you can play a frigate or a massive star cruiser - and it makes a fundamental difference! Pit your Miranda against three D7 in SFA - it is possible to win with great dedication and skill, but you probably get ripped to shreds. Now do the same in a Excelsior and your chances are much better. You cannot exclusively field Defiants in star Trek Armada and expect to win. And no one can be actually so naive as to onfuse a game with necessary mechanics with a dramatic show that even against dire odds let's you get out in the end because it also happened in the show.
And last but not least there's the social aspect of a online game. This is not a single player adventure game that should be balanced to be manageable with what you're given, it should be a dynamic experience requiring you to adapt based on your choices. Frigate captains are very useful, but they can't be expected to take on three dreadnoughts on their own. Playing WoW wandering through the lands there are always some quests you can do by yourself - but taking out the bandit kings fortress requires assistance. And social aspect doesn't mean you have to join a clan and dedicate your spare and work time to this, but the ability to freely team up with players to beat certain content, have a good time and be on your way afterwards is something that, at least back in my day and age, was welcome.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
That would be a more compelling argument if Cryptic hadn't all ready arbitrarily divided ships up into particular roles, rather than allowing players to fly whatever they want and customize it toward whatever role they happen to like.
I would love to have my Science Captain fly around in an Akira throwing out space magic, but I can't because Cryptic decided that the Akira is a 'Heavy Escort' that can only slot 2 low tier science powers.
Or the Galaxy, which we know it's entire purpose was exploration and that it was loaded down with all sorts of science labs, but no, Cryptic decided it's an engineering focused Cruiser with minimal science capabilities.
Even then, adding the Trinity as a requirement in this game will involve a huge change in the core mechanics of this game. Everything from ship layouts to captain skills, traits and bridge officer abilities will need to be changed. After that, you'll need to change how the STFs work and how the queuing system works.
Such a change is impractical due to the design philosophy this game has taken throughout the years and the devs know it and stated it on record.
Also, I do not think the majority of the playerbase would want another game with the same old "Trinity" model attached to it. If they did:
Don't blame the DPS meta either, because only a small percentage of the playerbase are actively chasing it. And the fact that the above builds are more than capable of sustaining enough damage for both advanced and elite makes the DPS meta irrelevant in this conversation.
You can see in my videos above that "Trinity" teams can work and work well. So I see that as a viable choice for many players. The fact that it isn't a requirement is good for the game since it promotes diversity while allowing players to play as they want.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
This is true and not in doubt by any party in these discussion. Still, ending a discussion becuse "It'll never happen anyway" would end a lot of discussions before they could take place
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Haha point taken. But we also have to place the "practicality" in implementing some suggestions into consideration or else we'd be endlessly frustrated because we can't have things we want to have in the game.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!