Why wouls TOS Gorn work for the KDF, also why would nobody notice the ridge head version of a klingon in TOS era klingons new they existed but I'm not sure who else did. Although admitedly the klingon could be from a later era, I still stod by my Gorn statement.
Maybe they are going for another alternate reality thing, or maybe these are just teasers.
We will get some sort of explanation when the expansion will hit the servers. Since the 23rd century part is probably restricted to TOS characters who are Starfleet, TOS Gorn and Klingons don't necessarily work together. And if they do Cryptic could invent some sort of alliance going on.
The ridged head Klingons are more difficult to explain, as Cryptic already decided that they want to go with the nonsense that TOS Klingons and TNG Klingons actually look different - Rodenberry didn't intend for them to do, according to him TNG and TOS Klingons always looked the same, just that the budget was bigger on the latter istallment. This was before the stupid augment mess the incredible talentless ENT writers came up with...
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Why wouls TOS Gorn work for the KDF, also why would nobody notice the ridge head version of a klingon in TOS era klingons new they existed but I'm not sure who else did. Although admitedly the klingon could be from a later era, I still stod by my Gorn statement.
Maybe they are going for another alternate reality thing, or maybe these are just teasers.
We will get some sort of explanation when the expansion will hit the servers. Since the 23rd century part is probably restricted to TOS characters who are Starfleet, TOS Gorn and Klingons don't necessarily work together. And if they do Cryptic could invent some sort of alliance going on.
The ridged head Klingons are more difficult to explain, as Cryptic already decided that they want to go with the nonsense that TOS Klingons and TNG Klingons actually look different - Rodenberry didn't intend for them to do, according to him TNG and TOS Klingons always looked the same, just that the budget was bigger on the latter istallment. This was before the stupid augment mess the incredible talentless ENT writers came up with...
The gorn in the 23rd are an independent faction that is yet to be conquered by the IKE and i doubt the Gorn would willingly work with the Klingons and vice versa. The Klingons before Praxis exploded did not need any allies to be powerful.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Why wouls TOS Gorn work for the KDF, also why would nobody notice the ridge head version of a klingon in TOS era klingons new they existed but I'm not sure who else did. Although admitedly the klingon could be from a later era, I still stod by my Gorn statement.
Maybe they are going for another alternate reality thing, or maybe these are just teasers.
We will get some sort of explanation when the expansion will hit the servers. Since the 23rd century part is probably restricted to TOS characters who are Starfleet, TOS Gorn and Klingons don't necessarily work together. And if they do Cryptic could invent some sort of alliance going on.
The ridged head Klingons are more difficult to explain, as Cryptic already decided that they want to go with the nonsense that TOS Klingons and TNG Klingons actually look different - Rodenberry didn't intend for them to do, according to him TNG and TOS Klingons always looked the same, just that the budget was bigger on the latter istallment. This was before the stupid augment mess the incredible talentless ENT writers came up with...
That can of worms was already open when they changed things and didn't explain anything. All they comment on the change in DS9
Also that Scotty could be the one that was found during TNG....furthering rumors that time travel will be involved
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Really digging the classic locations like Taurus II.
And having Scotty back, that is awesome. I wonder though if Chris Doohan will also do some lines for Scotty's appearance in the Devidian arc.
And of course there's him wearing his outfit from the TMP era movies. Maybe my dreams of an endgame Miranda aren't quite as dead and buried as I thought...
Yeah, good point. Scotty spent an entire episode of TNG talking to Geordi about engineering.
The ridged head Klingons are more difficult to explain, as Cryptic already decided that they want to go with the nonsense that TOS Klingons and TNG Klingons actually look different - Rodenberry didn't intend for them to do, according to him TNG and TOS Klingons always looked the same, just that the budget was bigger on the latter istallment. This was before the stupid augment mess the incredible talentless ENT writers came up with...
Not really. There's no reason to not assume the two didn't co-exist. The virus wouldn't have affected all of them. Same with the Romulan ridges. If you want to get in a fuss about makeup changes, try the Trills for size .
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
The ridged head Klingons are more difficult to explain, as Cryptic already decided that they want to go with the nonsense that TOS Klingons and TNG Klingons actually look different - Rodenberry didn't intend for them to do, according to him TNG and TOS Klingons always looked the same, just that the budget was bigger on the latter istallment. This was before the stupid augment mess the incredible talentless ENT writers came up with...
Not really. There's no reason to not assume the two didn't co-exist. The virus wouldn't have affected all of them. Same with the Romulan ridges. If you want to get in a fuss about makeup changes, try the Trills for size .
Romulans and Klingons have a genetic history with each other, it is assumed that klingons and vulcans bred to create something like Ba'el and then vulcans bred with these mixed race members of their group to create the new romulan race.
however there is no proof to claim that the genetically modified levodian flu virus which took the klingons ridges from them would not of effected romulans equally, the chances because of their genetic history they also could be affected the same way.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I only meant the fact that some Romulans have ridges and some don't even into the 24th century. I assume it's a racial thing like skin colour.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Why wouls TOS Gorn work for the KDF, also why would nobody notice the ridge head version of a klingon in TOS era klingons new they existed but I'm not sure who else did. Although admitedly the klingon could be from a later era, I still stod by my Gorn statement.
Maybe they are going for another alternate reality thing, or maybe these are just teasers.
We will get some sort of explanation when the expansion will hit the servers. Since the 23rd century part is probably restricted to TOS characters who are Starfleet, TOS Gorn and Klingons don't necessarily work together. And if they do Cryptic could invent some sort of alliance going on.
The ridged head Klingons are more difficult to explain, as Cryptic already decided that they want to go with the nonsense that TOS Klingons and TNG Klingons actually look different - Rodenberry didn't intend for them to do, according to him TNG and TOS Klingons always looked the same, just that the budget was bigger on the latter istallment. This was before the stupid augment mess the incredible talentless ENT writers came up with...
I actually really like that particular enterprise arc ... it's a rather genius way of explaining the difference in an in-universe way imho
Why wouls TOS Gorn work for the KDF, also why would nobody notice the ridge head version of a klingon in TOS era klingons new they existed but I'm not sure who else did. Although admitedly the klingon could be from a later era, I still stod by my Gorn statement.
Maybe they are going for another alternate reality thing, or maybe these are just teasers.
We will get some sort of explanation when the expansion will hit the servers. Since the 23rd century part is probably restricted to TOS characters who are Starfleet, TOS Gorn and Klingons don't necessarily work together. And if they do Cryptic could invent some sort of alliance going on.
The ridged head Klingons are more difficult to explain, as Cryptic already decided that they want to go with the nonsense that TOS Klingons and TNG Klingons actually look different - Rodenberry didn't intend for them to do, according to him TNG and TOS Klingons always looked the same, just that the budget was bigger on the latter istallment. This was before the stupid augment mess the incredible talentless ENT writers came up with...
I actually really like that particular enterprise arc ... it's a rather genius way of explaining the difference in an in-universe way imho
Why wouls TOS Gorn work for the KDF, also why would nobody notice the ridge head version of a klingon in TOS era klingons new they existed but I'm not sure who else did. Although admitedly the klingon could be from a later era, I still stod by my Gorn statement.
Maybe they are going for another alternate reality thing, or maybe these are just teasers.
We will get some sort of explanation when the expansion will hit the servers. Since the 23rd century part is probably restricted to TOS characters who are Starfleet, TOS Gorn and Klingons don't necessarily work together. And if they do Cryptic could invent some sort of alliance going on.
The ridged head Klingons are more difficult to explain, as Cryptic already decided that they want to go with the nonsense that TOS Klingons and TNG Klingons actually look different - Rodenberry didn't intend for them to do, according to him TNG and TOS Klingons always looked the same, just that the budget was bigger on the latter istallment. This was before the stupid augment mess the incredible talentless ENT writers came up with...
I actually really like that particular enterprise arc ... it's a rather genius way of explaining the difference in an in-universe way imho
I always preferred Worf's explanation in "Trials and Tribbleations" - "We do not discuss it with... outsiders." That's all the explanation we ever needed, I think...
I also like the starbase. Let's me hope the STO-verse will really be a little pocket universe full of TOS authenticity
God, I hope not. Hard to be the 3rd 'expansion' if it's nothing more than a whole separate server. It'd be like playing on Tribble Server while everyone else plays on Holodeck. Now just imagine the horrible wait times for queues when people get tired of one server. Might as well just call it STO2 and move on.
I only meant the fact that some Romulans have ridges and some don't even into the 24th century. I assume it's a racial thing like skin colour.
technically the skin color doesnt identifying a "race" since for people from earth in the 21st are all humans with some slightly different random genetics.
i suspect the romulans caught the virus and had the same thing, in the 22nd romulans had ridges and the same for klingons, in the 23rd neither had ridges and by the end of the 23rd both had ridges again, it continued through to the 25th without fail.
i suspect there were romulan spies on qu'vat colony and other worlds which got infected by this virus, they retreated back home and on an unsuspecting romulus, the rest of their people caught it until it was identified and eliminated.
further thought, remember that tng episode were humans, cardassians, klingons and romulans were chasing pieces of a genetic map to a preserver who all told them they had a common bond in genetics because of these preservers? and they were created by the preservers to fill in empty galaxy?
so there is a fair chance the romulans picked up the human augment virus in the levodian flu and it did change them until romulan and klingon physiology reasserted themselves after a few generations.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I actually really like that particular enterprise arc ... it's a rather genius way of explaining the difference in an in-universe way imho
The point is that it didn't need an "in-universe explanation". People confuse good storytelling with phony explanations these days. As @jonsills said, "Trials and Tribbleations" gave a charming and witty comment about the issue and that was everything we need to know - that was purely intented as a poke at the fourth wall, though, as we already knew that Klingons are not supposed to have looked different. Rodenberry straight forward said it's just make-up.
The whole augment story hurt Khan and the augments we knew and the Klingons. To me personally it's just one of those almost insulting things ENT came up with
Or do we develop stories why Geordi was appearantly demoted for a single scene as well?
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I only meant the fact that some Romulans have ridges and some don't even into the 24th century. I assume it's a racial thing like skin colour.
technically the skin color doesnt identifying a "race" since for people from earth in the 21st are all humans with some slightly different random genetics.
i suspect the romulans caught the virus and had the same thing, in the 22nd romulans had ridges and the same for klingons, in the 23rd neither had ridges and by the end of the 23rd both had ridges again, it continued through to the 25th without fail.
i suspect there were romulan spies on qu'vat colony and other worlds which got infected by this virus, they retreated back home and on an unsuspecting romulus, the rest of their people caught it until it was identified and eliminated.
further thought, remember that tng episode were humans, cardassians, klingons and romulans were chasing pieces of a genetic map to a preserver who all told them they had a common bond in genetics because of these preservers? and they were created by the preservers to fill in empty galaxy?
so there is a fair chance the romulans picked up the human augment virus in the levodian flu and it did change them until romulan and klingon physiology reasserted themselves after a few generations.
this could be just the fact that romulans and vulcans share the same ancestors. the gene responsible of the ridges could be a recessive gene, like the one responsible of the blue eyes and the blond hair of the melanesian people. the genetic is fascinating because everything is possible.
I only meant the fact that some Romulans have ridges and some don't even into the 24th century. I assume it's a racial thing like skin colour.
technically the skin color doesnt identifying a "race" since for people from earth in the 21st are all humans with some slightly different random genetics.
i suspect the romulans caught the virus and had the same thing, in the 22nd romulans had ridges and the same for klingons, in the 23rd neither had ridges and by the end of the 23rd both had ridges again, it continued through to the 25th without fail.
i suspect there were romulan spies on qu'vat colony and other worlds which got infected by this virus, they retreated back home and on an unsuspecting romulus, the rest of their people caught it until it was identified and eliminated.
further thought, remember that tng episode were humans, cardassians, klingons and romulans were chasing pieces of a genetic map to a preserver who all told them they had a common bond in genetics because of these preservers? and they were created by the preservers to fill in empty galaxy?
so there is a fair chance the romulans picked up the human augment virus in the levodian flu and it did change them until romulan and klingon physiology reasserted themselves after a few generations.
this could be just the fact that romulans and vulcans share the same ancestors. the gene responsible of the ridges could be a recessive gene, like the one responsible of the blue eyes and the blond hair of the melanesian people. the genetic is fascinating because everything is possible.
i am not saying point is any more right than yours as it is all merely speculation, perhaps the new trek series could rectify some of these anomalies left in trek history.
romulans were considered a different race from Vulcans of centuries ago, vulcans as a rule since the surak think embraced logic and purge of emotions, vulcans were so violent at one point they almost destroyed themselves, some continued down this path under the raptors wings.
it however doesnt explain how klingon and romulan dna is compatible with each compared to human andd klingon dna, when it came to a compatible donor to save a romulans life, worf was the only one who had compatible dna to help, and when it came to torres and paris to have a child, even a half klingon, the chances of the dna being compatible was a long shot at best, it would of been even more so between a full klingon and a full human.
there could of been some klingon romulan interbreeding at one point, or it could of been dna sequeunces that mutated and created a new distinct dna sequence.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
God, I hope not. Hard to be the 3rd 'expansion' if it's nothing more than a whole separate server. It'd be like playing on Tribble Server while everyone else plays on Holodeck. Now just imagine the horrible wait times for queues when people get tired of one server. Might as well just call it STO2 and move on.
Well, it could just be a pocket universe that's implemented as a separate sector bloc (and may, given all the temporal shenanigans going on, be accessible in both directions from the 25th century main area).
technically the skin color doesnt identifying a "race" since for people from earth in the 21st are all humans with some slightly different random genetics.
I was using race as a shorthand for ethnicity rather than species or subspecies. And genetics, especially relating to race, is rarely 'random'.
My thinking is that, as Humans in equatorial regions have higher levels of pigmentation in their skin to act as a sun block, what if the ridge was some form of protection for the eyes from the sun?
The Romulan Star Empire is an Empire with Romulans on other worlds, so say the Vulcans rarely have the ridges and that Equatorial Vulcans were the ones that formed Romulus, the ridge would be a dominate trait. In colony worlds with fewer of these equatorial Vulcans you get populations of Romulans that lack this trait, i.e. the Romulans of worlds closer to Federation space and therefore the ones encountered in TOS and TAS.
i suspect the romulans caught the virus and had the same thing, in the 22nd romulans had ridges and the same for klingons, in the 23rd neither had ridges and by the end of the 23rd both had ridges again, it continued through to the 25th without fail.
The Romulan ambassador in the TOS films didn't have the ridge at a time when Chang and whatnot were growing theirs back.
And Nero and his crew didn't have the ridge either.
Besides, unlike with Klingons the ridge is the only feature that differs between TOS and TNG Romulans. Klingons lost their size, strength, ridges, blood lust, but apparently grew bigger brains.
That's why I don't think it's the same reason.
We saw only about 12 or so Romulans in TOS, TAS, and the TOS films and all from relatively close to the Federation (so I suspect the same world, that world not being Romulus), it could be like that planet in Code of Honour where everybody is black, or the DMZ planets full of American Aborigines, or the planet of the Irish in TNG.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I only meant the fact that some Romulans have ridges and some don't even into the 24th century. I assume it's a racial thing like skin colour.
technically the skin color doesnt identifying a "race" since for people from earth in the 21st are all humans with some slightly different random genetics.
i suspect the romulans caught the virus and had the same thing, in the 22nd romulans had ridges and the same for klingons, in the 23rd neither had ridges and by the end of the 23rd both had ridges again, it continued through to the 25th without fail.
i suspect there were romulan spies on qu'vat colony and other worlds which got infected by this virus, they retreated back home and on an unsuspecting romulus, the rest of their people caught it until it was identified and eliminated.
further thought, remember that tng episode were humans, cardassians, klingons and romulans were chasing pieces of a genetic map to a preserver who all told them they had a common bond in genetics because of these preservers? and they were created by the preservers to fill in empty galaxy?
so there is a fair chance the romulans picked up the human augment virus in the levodian flu and it did change them until romulan and klingon physiology reasserted themselves after a few generations.
this could be just the fact that romulans and vulcans share the same ancestors. the gene responsible of the ridges could be a recessive gene, like the one responsible of the blue eyes and the blond hair of the melanesian people. the genetic is fascinating because everything is possible.
i am not saying point is any more right than yours as it is all merely speculation, perhaps the new trek series could rectify some of these anomalies left in trek history.
romulans were considered a different race from Vulcans of centuries ago, vulcans as a rule since the surak think embraced logic and purge of emotions, vulcans were so violent at one point they almost destroyed themselves, some continued down this path under the raptors wings.
it however doesnt explain how klingon and romulan dna is compatible with each compared to human andd klingon dna, when it came to a compatible donor to save a romulans life, worf was the only one who had compatible dna to help, and when it came to torres and paris to have a child, even a half klingon, the chances of the dna being compatible was a long shot at best, it would of been even more so between a full klingon and a full human.
there could of been some klingon romulan interbreeding at one point, or it could of been dna sequeunces that mutated and created a new distinct dna sequence.
Alexander's mother, you know K'Ehleyr, was half human half klingon like B'lanna, she and Worf needed no help producing Alexander. Alexander of course has the same percentages of human and klingon dna as Miral Paris.
Paris - human
Torres - half klingon
Worf- klingon
k'ehleyr - half klingon
i mentioned human to klingon genetics not klingon to klingon genetics.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
i mentioned human to klingon genetics not klingon to klingon genetics.
That's clever framing, but you could also phrase it like this:
Paris - human
Torres - half human
The offspring are inverses of one another - one 3/4 Klingon and the other 3/4 human. The way they've depicted it has been a sort of sliding scale of 'klingonness' (basically ridges and attitude) based on percentage of Klingon you have.
They are able to interbreed presumably because of the Preservers.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I actually really like that particular enterprise arc ... it's a rather genius way of explaining the difference in an in-universe way imho
The point is that it didn't need an "in-universe explanation". People confuse good storytelling with phony explanations these days. As @jonsills said, "Trials and Tribbleations" gave a charming and witty comment about the issue and that was everything we need to know - that was purely intented as a poke at the fourth wall, though, as we already knew that Klingons are not supposed to have looked different. Rodenberry straight forward said it's just make-up.
The whole augment story hurt Khan and the augments we knew and the Klingons. To me personally it's just one of those almost insulting things ENT came up with
Or do we develop stories why Geordi was appearantly demoted for a single scene as well?
See I don't see it as insulting at all, tbh it always bothered me a LOT that they looked so radically different between TOS and TMP. To the point that I had a lot of trouble even watching TOS. Once enterprise gave an explanation for it, TOS became a lot easier for me to watch.
As far as the augments, they behaved exactly as expected imho.
Again the gorn still dont have the 3 finger option.
Tellarites seemingly don't as well. Sure, it was only in the make up test, the actors themselves had normal hands in the episode but it can't be too hard to include a hand with fused digits.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I actually really like that particular enterprise arc ... it's a rather genius way of explaining the difference in an in-universe way imho
The point is that it didn't need an "in-universe explanation". People confuse good storytelling with phony explanations these days. As @jonsills said, "Trials and Tribbleations" gave a charming and witty comment about the issue and that was everything we need to know - that was purely intented as a poke at the fourth wall, though, as we already knew that Klingons are not supposed to have looked different. Rodenberry straight forward said it's just make-up.
The whole augment story hurt Khan and the augments we knew and the Klingons. To me personally it's just one of those almost insulting things ENT came up with
Or do we develop stories why Geordi was appearantly demoted for a single scene as well?
It's nice that you have an opinion and I don't begrudge you. Having said that, the Klingon explanation, the Augments with Brent Spiner returning, Through a Mirror Darkly were some of my favorite Enterprise episodes and were only ruined by the fact that Scott Bakula happened to still be there.
Also, the Worf comment, while nice that DS9 made a tongue and cheek reference to a problem in Trek Lore really didn't fill the void for me and I'm suspecting quite a few others. Gene Roddenberry may have also said this or that, and with all respect to Mr. Roddenberry, to just watch a TOS episode and pretend that the smooth forehead you're seeing on the Klingons is really a ridged forehead is quite the suspension of disbelief.
And lastly, how in the Hell did the augment story hurt Khan?
And lastly, how in the Hell did the augment story hurt Khan?
Been mulling that one over and my only guess is because it added a ton of cheese to the whole augment concept
oh... you mean Scott Bakula was in it?
No, but seriously, Kahn had a bleeping mullet in TWOK and showed off his chest every chance he got. Not saying that TWOK isn't a good film. It is. But Bakula didn't add that much to the cheese factor in that arc.
Comments
We will get some sort of explanation when the expansion will hit the servers. Since the 23rd century part is probably restricted to TOS characters who are Starfleet, TOS Gorn and Klingons don't necessarily work together. And if they do Cryptic could invent some sort of alliance going on.
The ridged head Klingons are more difficult to explain, as Cryptic already decided that they want to go with the nonsense that TOS Klingons and TNG Klingons actually look different - Rodenberry didn't intend for them to do, according to him TNG and TOS Klingons always looked the same, just that the budget was bigger on the latter istallment. This was before the stupid augment mess the incredible talentless ENT writers came up with...
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The gorn in the 23rd are an independent faction that is yet to be conquered by the IKE and i doubt the Gorn would willingly work with the Klingons and vice versa. The Klingons before Praxis exploded did not need any allies to be powerful.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
That can of worms was already open when they changed things and didn't explain anything. All they comment on the change in DS9
Also that Scotty could be the one that was found during TNG....furthering rumors that time travel will be involved
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
My character Tsin'xing
Not really. There's no reason to not assume the two didn't co-exist. The virus wouldn't have affected all of them. Same with the Romulan ridges. If you want to get in a fuss about makeup changes, try the Trills for size
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Romulans and Klingons have a genetic history with each other, it is assumed that klingons and vulcans bred to create something like Ba'el and then vulcans bred with these mixed race members of their group to create the new romulan race.
however there is no proof to claim that the genetically modified levodian flu virus which took the klingons ridges from them would not of effected romulans equally, the chances because of their genetic history they also could be affected the same way.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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I actually really like that particular enterprise arc ... it's a rather genius way of explaining the difference in an in-universe way imho
My character Tsin'xing
God, I hope not. Hard to be the 3rd 'expansion' if it's nothing more than a whole separate server. It'd be like playing on Tribble Server while everyone else plays on Holodeck. Now just imagine the horrible wait times for queues when people get tired of one server. Might as well just call it STO2 and move on.
technically the skin color doesnt identifying a "race" since for people from earth in the 21st are all humans with some slightly different random genetics.
i suspect the romulans caught the virus and had the same thing, in the 22nd romulans had ridges and the same for klingons, in the 23rd neither had ridges and by the end of the 23rd both had ridges again, it continued through to the 25th without fail.
i suspect there were romulan spies on qu'vat colony and other worlds which got infected by this virus, they retreated back home and on an unsuspecting romulus, the rest of their people caught it until it was identified and eliminated.
further thought, remember that tng episode were humans, cardassians, klingons and romulans were chasing pieces of a genetic map to a preserver who all told them they had a common bond in genetics because of these preservers? and they were created by the preservers to fill in empty galaxy?
so there is a fair chance the romulans picked up the human augment virus in the levodian flu and it did change them until romulan and klingon physiology reasserted themselves after a few generations.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
The point is that it didn't need an "in-universe explanation". People confuse good storytelling with phony explanations these days. As @jonsills said, "Trials and Tribbleations" gave a charming and witty comment about the issue and that was everything we need to know - that was purely intented as a poke at the fourth wall, though, as we already knew that Klingons are not supposed to have looked different. Rodenberry straight forward said it's just make-up.
The whole augment story hurt Khan and the augments we knew and the Klingons. To me personally it's just one of those almost insulting things ENT came up with
Or do we develop stories why Geordi was appearantly demoted for a single scene as well?
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this could be just the fact that romulans and vulcans share the same ancestors. the gene responsible of the ridges could be a recessive gene, like the one responsible of the blue eyes and the blond hair of the melanesian people. the genetic is fascinating because everything is possible.
i am not saying point is any more right than yours as it is all merely speculation, perhaps the new trek series could rectify some of these anomalies left in trek history.
romulans were considered a different race from Vulcans of centuries ago, vulcans as a rule since the surak think embraced logic and purge of emotions, vulcans were so violent at one point they almost destroyed themselves, some continued down this path under the raptors wings.
it however doesnt explain how klingon and romulan dna is compatible with each compared to human andd klingon dna, when it came to a compatible donor to save a romulans life, worf was the only one who had compatible dna to help, and when it came to torres and paris to have a child, even a half klingon, the chances of the dna being compatible was a long shot at best, it would of been even more so between a full klingon and a full human.
there could of been some klingon romulan interbreeding at one point, or it could of been dna sequeunces that mutated and created a new distinct dna sequence.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
My character Tsin'xing
I was using race as a shorthand for ethnicity rather than species or subspecies. And genetics, especially relating to race, is rarely 'random'.
My thinking is that, as Humans in equatorial regions have higher levels of pigmentation in their skin to act as a sun block, what if the ridge was some form of protection for the eyes from the sun?
The Romulan Star Empire is an Empire with Romulans on other worlds, so say the Vulcans rarely have the ridges and that Equatorial Vulcans were the ones that formed Romulus, the ridge would be a dominate trait. In colony worlds with fewer of these equatorial Vulcans you get populations of Romulans that lack this trait, i.e. the Romulans of worlds closer to Federation space and therefore the ones encountered in TOS and TAS.
The Romulan ambassador in the TOS films didn't have the ridge at a time when Chang and whatnot were growing theirs back.
And Nero and his crew didn't have the ridge either.
Besides, unlike with Klingons the ridge is the only feature that differs between TOS and TNG Romulans. Klingons lost their size, strength, ridges, blood lust, but apparently grew bigger brains.
That's why I don't think it's the same reason.
We saw only about 12 or so Romulans in TOS, TAS, and the TOS films and all from relatively close to the Federation (so I suspect the same world, that world not being Romulus), it could be like that planet in Code of Honour where everybody is black, or the DMZ planets full of American Aborigines, or the planet of the Irish in TNG.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Paris - human
Torres - half klingon
Worf- klingon
k'ehleyr - half klingon
i mentioned human to klingon genetics not klingon to klingon genetics.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
That's clever framing, but you could also phrase it like this:
Paris - human
Torres - half human
The offspring are inverses of one another - one 3/4 Klingon and the other 3/4 human. The way they've depicted it has been a sort of sliding scale of 'klingonness' (basically ridges and attitude) based on percentage of Klingon you have.
They are able to interbreed presumably because of the Preservers.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
My character Tsin'xing
See I don't see it as insulting at all, tbh it always bothered me a LOT that they looked so radically different between TOS and TMP. To the point that I had a lot of trouble even watching TOS. Once enterprise gave an explanation for it, TOS became a lot easier for me to watch.
As far as the augments, they behaved exactly as expected imho.
Tellarites seemingly don't as well. Sure, it was only in the make up test, the actors themselves had normal hands in the episode but it can't be too hard to include a hand with fused digits.
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It's nice that you have an opinion and I don't begrudge you. Having said that, the Klingon explanation, the Augments with Brent Spiner returning, Through a Mirror Darkly were some of my favorite Enterprise episodes and were only ruined by the fact that Scott Bakula happened to still be there.
Also, the Worf comment, while nice that DS9 made a tongue and cheek reference to a problem in Trek Lore really didn't fill the void for me and I'm suspecting quite a few others. Gene Roddenberry may have also said this or that, and with all respect to Mr. Roddenberry, to just watch a TOS episode and pretend that the smooth forehead you're seeing on the Klingons is really a ridged forehead is quite the suspension of disbelief.
And lastly, how in the Hell did the augment story hurt Khan?
Been mulling that one over and my only guess is because it added a ton of cheese to the whole augment concept
oh... you mean Scott Bakula was in it?
No, but seriously, Kahn had a bleeping mullet in TWOK and showed off his chest every chance he got. Not saying that TWOK isn't a good film. It is. But Bakula didn't add that much to the cheese factor in that arc.