How about balance things so we don't need 3 flavors of queues? The power creep is exciting, until everything is faceroflstomp. We just need 2 flavors now, pre-60 and post-60. Too many queues means dead queues.
I noticed more and more aggro builds. With Threatening Stance and Cruiser Attract Fire, it's easier for people to build for aggro-FBP builds. Since gaining aggro means you can heal more and place higher in CCA, more people are doing it. That's probably why you aren't getting much damage. Also, if you have a lot of torp boats in the run, the Crystalline's pulse won't be as strong.
Even before the revamp, CCA lasted for a minute or less if you have at least 1 good torp ship in the run. After the revamp, there seems to be more torp ships (lots of torp build threads lately in Reddit) and many of these resort to PUGs because of the lag.
You have to consider that the Entity only has 5.1M HP. With 10 ships hitting it at once, plus all those warp core breaches from the Tholians, it can go down really quickly.
What he said. There are groups of people who go into a CCA where one person will be the DPS juggernaut, and 1-3 people will support that person using control, debuff, and/or drains. Expect runs like that to last less than 45 seconds on a laggy instance.
The Elite version (should one be created) will need 10x as much HP, and the Strengthening Strengths issue that @borticuscryptic brought up should play a factor in curbing some of the powerCreep 11.5... but not much is my guess.
How about balance things so we don't need 3 flavors of queues? The power creep is exciting, until everything is faceroflstomp. We just need 2 flavors now, pre-60 and post-60. Too many queues means dead queues.
Problem with queues is not that is there too many of them, but the very nature of queues. This is an enclosed, restrictive instances, like dungeons in your average mmo. If they tend to be too hard for majority of players, or there is minimal rewards, there won't be much players running it. People do fleet alerts on a regular basis, because you do it with fleet mates, and even if you have to go public you'll always have a couple of friends around. Joining a regular public queue may end up as waste of time. That's why it's nearly dead.
May be better if there were some above-average gear rewards, like a chance to get set items, XIII, UR, tech upgrades and stuff. Nobody will roll this just to get some mundane greens/blues and a handful of dilithium ore.
Its gotten to a point where failing this mission is becoming a dangerously likely scenario. People are reporting CCA failing because the entity dies during energy absorptions, which according to the game is too early.
Yesterday, the entity was at litterally 1% when it finishes its second absorption (it went from the first absorption straight to the second one btw).
People's DPS is getting out of hand in this, expect this PVE to be changed. Between the massive lag caused by all the players spamming every buff in existance and its short duration, there's bound to be something happening soon.
....ORRrr....they can create an Elite version of it finally?
That would be the obvious choice, but I didn't list it because you know as well as I do that that won't happen.
Sounds about as likely as ISE, KSE and CSE becoming a thing again.
Or perhaps they could cut it down to a 5 man que, instead of 10...
It might not work as well. On all those sub 1-min runs, it's just usually 1 really hard hitter and 2-3 people supporting/with decent damage. Sometimes, it's one really high DPS player and 9 really low ones.
I run CCA regularly (quick source of Dil for alts) and parse every one and that's what I see. I've seen runs where half of the team does less than 3k DPS and even 8 people in the team doing less than 8k.
Or perhaps they could cut it down to a 5 man que, instead of 10...
It might not work as well. On all those sub 1-min runs, it's just usually 1 really hard hitter and 2-3 people supporting/with decent damage. Sometimes, it's one really high DPS player and 9 really low ones.
I run CCA regularly (quick source of Dil for alts) and parse every one and that's what I see. I've seen runs where half of the team does less than 3k DPS and even 8 people in the team doing less than 8k.
I agree and do the same. Perhaps a bit on that map is due to distance because often players spread over the stage. Still the huge gap between a few high scorers and a large number of low contributing players (when it comes to damage dealing) is really obvious in CCa.
I wonder how many peeps reporting to forums about the “triviality” of this map would actually have a very hard time concluding it when those 1-3 match runners are not in.
How about balance things so we don't need 3 flavors of queues? The power creep is exciting, until everything is faceroflstomp. We just need 2 flavors now, pre-60 and post-60. Too many queues means dead queues.
That’s also a good point Dortan. If I look at the empty queue list on almost all maps we have a singled “favored” one. Sometimes its elite, sometimes advanced and on a few still normal. Getting rid of the most underused one would not hurt much and funnel the number of participants through those that are.
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I agree and do the same. Perhaps a bit on that map is due to distance because often players spread over the stage.
I usually stay within 1-2kms of the Entity so if they are not being caught by my logs, then they aren't really helping bring down the entity TBH, which would make things worse without those 1-3 big hitters.
This is an example sub 1-min CCAs I ran earlier (player names removed):
A run without any heavy hitter:
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [03:10] DMG(DPS)
TRIBBLE: 7.05M(37.99K)
TRIBBLE: 1.96M(11.08K)
TRIBBLE: 1.74M(9.22K)
TRIBBLE: 1.49M(8.01K)
TRIBBLE: 1.21M(7.69K)
TRIBBLE: 1.31M(7.27K)
TRIBBLE: 888.89K(4.81K)
TRIBBLE: 399.67K(2.88K)
TRIBBLE: 163.68K(1.12K)
TRIBBLE: 109.64K(636.35)
I'm focusing on the damage here because it's what speeds up the run.
Mind you, the "heavy hitters" are usually the same people over and over again. They've been doing this before the revamp. Out of the just over 8000 recorded players in CCA, only 50 are able to hit 100k and higher and only 365 go over 50k. Give those heavy hitters an elite version of Crystalline Catastrophe and give that elite queue a good set of rewards for top 3 finishers (maybe items with craftable mods like [Pen], [Over], [Spr], etc..) and the guys who want to do Advanced can have longer more satisfying queues IMO.
Also note, that the Entity's 5.1M HP may seem huge, but 10 people are teaming up against it. A team where everyone does at least 8500 DPS will take that entity down within 60secs if they all focused on it.
I agree and do the same. Perhaps a bit on that map is due to distance because often players spread over the stage.
I usually stay within 1-2kms of the Entity so if they are not being caught by my logs, then they aren't really helping bring down the entity TBH, which would make things worse without those 1-3 big hitters.
This is an example sub 1-min CCAs I ran earlier (player names removed):
A run without any heavy hitter:
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [03:10] DMG(DPS)
TRIBBLE: 7.05M(37.99K)
TRIBBLE: 1.96M(11.08K)
TRIBBLE: 1.74M(9.22K)
TRIBBLE: 1.49M(8.01K)
TRIBBLE: 1.21M(7.69K)
TRIBBLE: 1.31M(7.27K)
TRIBBLE: 888.89K(4.81K)
TRIBBLE: 399.67K(2.88K)
TRIBBLE: 163.68K(1.12K)
TRIBBLE: 109.64K(636.35)
I'm focusing on the damage here because it's what speeds up the run.
Mind you, the "heavy hitters" are usually the same people over and over again. They've been doing this before the revamp. Out of the just over 8000 recorded players in CCA, only 50 are able to hit 100k and higher and only 365 go over 50k. Give those heavy hitters an elite version of Crystalline Catastrophe and give that elite queue a good set of rewards for top 3 finishers (maybe items with craftable mods like [Pen], [Over], [Spr], etc..) and the guys who want to do Advanced can have longer more satisfying queues IMO.
Also note, that the Entity's 5.1M HP may seem huge, but 10 people are teaming up against it. A team where everyone does at least 8500 DPS will take that entity down within 60secs if they all focused on it.
Wow, I had never thought that the situation is that claustrophobic. If cryptic has the same data it could explain a bit. I mean if only 365 players in sto are over-qualified for CC advanced are they really likely to justify putting effort into another difficulty setting?
Sure you point out the gaming quality for the others but really, if just the two best players of your three recorded runs would have not been around the matches would have been more of a disaster than a satisfactory experience for the others, or am I wrong?
I mean the borderline between this forum’s typical canon “game is too easy, nerfs are needed” and “you kill the game because queues are too hard and the other players are just bad” might be creepy thin.
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Wow, I had never thought that the situation is that claustrophobic. If cryptic has the same data it could explain a bit. I mean if only 365 players in sto are over-qualified for CC advanced are they really likely to justify putting effort into another difficulty setting?
Maybe, but those 300 or so players are also likely very active, and would probably populate an Elite queue easily.
Sure you point out the gaming quality for the others but really, if just the two best players of your three recorded runs would have not been around the matches would have been more of a disaster than a satisfactory experience for the others, or am I wrong?
I think it's more of a "it can go either way" kind of run. It won't be 1 minute, but if all of them focused fire on the entity, it can still be done in a reasonable amount of time. The problem arises when players do not have sufficient damage at all and the map becomes swamped with Tholians. If that happens, then it'll fall under the "disaster" category.
I lost the log, but I've been in a CCA instance recently where there were so many Tholians that simply getting near the entity would vape my tank ship (a ship that could take over 90% of the attacks in an ISA with no problems). If I remember right, I was doing about 25k DPS at that point, with 2nd place doing 4k.
I mean the borderline between this forum’s typical canon “game is too easy, nerfs are needed” and “you kill the game because queues are too hard and the other players are just bad” might be creepy thin.
It is definitely thin. I PUG most of my game time and I have seen remarkably quick runs due to the DPS channels spilling into public queues to avoid lag to teeth gratingly bad ones where over half the team has no clue on what they are supposed to be doing.
I agree with you @e30ernest. I’d love to see an elite mode for CC and especially the borg STF. I was always under the impression we don’t get those because cryptic does not like to hand out quick/easy elite rewards but after the introduction of the admiralty system this argument would make no sense.
My problem is rather the player base as a whole. Most of this game’s players show a tendency to simply pick the highest difficulty setting around no matter if they belong there or not.
I’m just a bit afraid that the moment we have elite on the favorite missions threads like these will simply be exchanged again with those we had after delta rising.
As someone who is in the top 50 of the STO league I definitely feel the urge for harder content but the pugger and the fleet leader part in me is also quite happy with the situation we have now. I don’t have to look how good my team mates are, don’t have to tell anybody that he is to be left behind because he isn’t good enough.
I can just team up with everybody and play undisturbed. At the end of the day the strength of the teams I end up with determine the challenges I encounter more than the game contend itself. I take them as they come and the game remains fresh for me even after 4 years of playing it.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
As someone who is in the top 50 of the STO league I definitely feel the urge for harder content but the pugger and the fleet leader part in me is also quite happy with the situation we have now. I don’t have to look how good my team mates are, don’t have to tell anybody that he is to be left behind because he isn’t good enough.
I can just team up with everybody and play undisturbed. At the end of the day the strength of the teams I end up with determine the challenges I encounter more than the game contend itself. I take them as they come and the game remains fresh for me even after 4 years of playing it.
This is where I am as well. I like the fact that I can pull far enough ahead that I can PUG without fear. Right now, I can handle Advanced Queues pretty much by myself. If I get a team that's under geared or unprepared, I can drag them to kicking and screaming to victory. Yes, it will be considerably harder with unprepared players, but I won't be doomed to fail, and those that need the assistance to get through the content still get their victory. I am personally fine with Advanced Queues the way they are now, yes they're easy for those of us that put a lot of effort in to what we're doing, but they're still pretty tough for the 'average' player.
I am still in favor of all queues having an Elite Mode that's considerably harder, intended for coordinated and well equipped teams and offers a considerable boost in rewards. My preferred method, would be the increased mark and dilithium reward we currently have as well as a random chance for a piece of Mark XIV gear of random quality from VR to Epic. These would be the queues that players go to when they want a real challenge. Advanced would remain as is.
just make a b-line for the entity and start firing everything quick, you should be able to do at least some damage before the game ends, getting caught up in combat on your way to the entity is a sure fire way to get a low damage level.
What Bobby said.
That said, an Elite CCA would be all kinds of cool.
I thought they'd fixed it, but it turns out I was just in a "low" dps runs. I pull just over 20k, and wound up in second, so I figure the one who took first threw some heals & was doing about the same damage as me. everyone else was lower, had to be. My next run on a different toon went super fast, so clearly there was no fix. I love it when the runs are super short. This is better, imho.
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What he said. There are groups of people who go into a CCA where one person will be the DPS juggernaut, and 1-3 people will support that person using control, debuff, and/or drains. Expect runs like that to last less than 45 seconds on a laggy instance.
The Elite version (should one be created) will need 10x as much HP, and the Strengthening Strengths issue that @borticuscryptic brought up should play a factor in curbing some of the powerCreep 11.5... but not much is my guess.
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May be better if there were some above-average gear rewards, like a chance to get set items, XIII, UR, tech upgrades and stuff. Nobody will roll this just to get some mundane greens/blues and a handful of dilithium ore.
That would be the obvious choice, but I didn't list it because you know as well as I do that that won't happen.
Sounds about as likely as ISE, KSE and CSE becoming a thing again.
"Let them eat static!"
It might not work as well. On all those sub 1-min runs, it's just usually 1 really hard hitter and 2-3 people supporting/with decent damage. Sometimes, it's one really high DPS player and 9 really low ones.
I run CCA regularly (quick source of Dil for alts) and parse every one and that's what I see. I've seen runs where half of the team does less than 3k DPS and even 8 people in the team doing less than 8k.
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I agree and do the same. Perhaps a bit on that map is due to distance because often players spread over the stage. Still the huge gap between a few high scorers and a large number of low contributing players (when it comes to damage dealing) is really obvious in CCa.
I wonder how many peeps reporting to forums about the “triviality” of this map would actually have a very hard time concluding it when those 1-3 match runners are not in.
That’s also a good point Dortan. If I look at the empty queue list on almost all maps we have a singled “favored” one. Sometimes its elite, sometimes advanced and on a few still normal. Getting rid of the most underused one would not hurt much and funnel the number of participants through those that are.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I usually stay within 1-2kms of the Entity so if they are not being caught by my logs, then they aren't really helping bring down the entity TBH, which would make things worse without those 1-3 big hitters.
This is an example sub 1-min CCAs I ran earlier (player names removed):
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [01:01] DMG(DPS)
TRIBBLE: 10.02M(175.49K)
TRIBBLE: 1.91M(38.12K)
TRIBBLE: 780.88K(15.78K)
TRIBBLE: 914.28K(15.63K)
TRIBBLE: 168.77K(9.59K)
TRIBBLE: 165.02K(3.89K)
TRIBBLE: 153.85K(3.21K)
TRIBBLE: 91.95K(2.51K)
TRIBBLE: 95.24K(1.76K)
TRIBBLE : 9.74K(644.79)
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [01:01] DMG(DPS)
TRIBBLE: 3.70M(131.75K)
TRIBBLE: 5.33M(96.37K)
TRIBBLE: 298.89K(16.16K)
TRIBBLE: 705.07K(14.66K)
TRIBBLE: 740.17K(12.59K)
TRIBBLE: 313.27K(5.69K)
TRIBBLE: 157.59K(3.04K)
TRIBBLE: 145.17K(2.79K)
TRIBBLE: 136.62K(2.57K)
A run without any heavy hitter:
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [03:10] DMG(DPS)
TRIBBLE: 7.05M(37.99K)
TRIBBLE: 1.96M(11.08K)
TRIBBLE: 1.74M(9.22K)
TRIBBLE: 1.49M(8.01K)
TRIBBLE: 1.21M(7.69K)
TRIBBLE: 1.31M(7.27K)
TRIBBLE: 888.89K(4.81K)
TRIBBLE: 399.67K(2.88K)
TRIBBLE: 163.68K(1.12K)
TRIBBLE: 109.64K(636.35)
I'm focusing on the damage here because it's what speeds up the run.
Mind you, the "heavy hitters" are usually the same people over and over again. They've been doing this before the revamp. Out of the just over 8000 recorded players in CCA, only 50 are able to hit 100k and higher and only 365 go over 50k. Give those heavy hitters an elite version of Crystalline Catastrophe and give that elite queue a good set of rewards for top 3 finishers (maybe items with craftable mods like [Pen], [Over], [Spr], etc..) and the guys who want to do Advanced can have longer more satisfying queues IMO.
Also note, that the Entity's 5.1M HP may seem huge, but 10 people are teaming up against it. A team where everyone does at least 8500 DPS will take that entity down within 60secs if they all focused on it.
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Wow, I had never thought that the situation is that claustrophobic. If cryptic has the same data it could explain a bit. I mean if only 365 players in sto are over-qualified for CC advanced are they really likely to justify putting effort into another difficulty setting?
Sure you point out the gaming quality for the others but really, if just the two best players of your three recorded runs would have not been around the matches would have been more of a disaster than a satisfactory experience for the others, or am I wrong?
I mean the borderline between this forum’s typical canon “game is too easy, nerfs are needed” and “you kill the game because queues are too hard and the other players are just bad” might be creepy thin.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Maybe, but those 300 or so players are also likely very active, and would probably populate an Elite queue easily.
I think it's more of a "it can go either way" kind of run. It won't be 1 minute, but if all of them focused fire on the entity, it can still be done in a reasonable amount of time. The problem arises when players do not have sufficient damage at all and the map becomes swamped with Tholians. If that happens, then it'll fall under the "disaster" category.
I lost the log, but I've been in a CCA instance recently where there were so many Tholians that simply getting near the entity would vape my tank ship (a ship that could take over 90% of the attacks in an ISA with no problems). If I remember right, I was doing about 25k DPS at that point, with 2nd place doing 4k.
It is definitely thin. I PUG most of my game time and I have seen remarkably quick runs due to the DPS channels spilling into public queues to avoid lag to teeth gratingly bad ones where over half the team has no clue on what they are supposed to be doing.
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My problem is rather the player base as a whole. Most of this game’s players show a tendency to simply pick the highest difficulty setting around no matter if they belong there or not.
I’m just a bit afraid that the moment we have elite on the favorite missions threads like these will simply be exchanged again with those we had after delta rising.
As someone who is in the top 50 of the STO league I definitely feel the urge for harder content but the pugger and the fleet leader part in me is also quite happy with the situation we have now. I don’t have to look how good my team mates are, don’t have to tell anybody that he is to be left behind because he isn’t good enough.
I can just team up with everybody and play undisturbed. At the end of the day the strength of the teams I end up with determine the challenges I encounter more than the game contend itself. I take them as they come and the game remains fresh for me even after 4 years of playing it.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
This is where I am as well. I like the fact that I can pull far enough ahead that I can PUG without fear. Right now, I can handle Advanced Queues pretty much by myself. If I get a team that's under geared or unprepared, I can drag them to kicking and screaming to victory. Yes, it will be considerably harder with unprepared players, but I won't be doomed to fail, and those that need the assistance to get through the content still get their victory. I am personally fine with Advanced Queues the way they are now, yes they're easy for those of us that put a lot of effort in to what we're doing, but they're still pretty tough for the 'average' player.
I am still in favor of all queues having an Elite Mode that's considerably harder, intended for coordinated and well equipped teams and offers a considerable boost in rewards. My preferred method, would be the increased mark and dilithium reward we currently have as well as a random chance for a piece of Mark XIV gear of random quality from VR to Epic. These would be the queues that players go to when they want a real challenge. Advanced would remain as is.
What Bobby said.
That said, an Elite CCA would be all kinds of cool.