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Passive hull repair rate mainly depends on ship class - but why is this a hidden stat?

After having played around with the new skill system a bit - I noticed that passive hull regeneration, while it can be modified by gear and captain skill, greatly varies between ship classes.

For instance, and Assault Cruiser Refit (T5U) shows a native rate of 146% per minute, while a Jem'Hadar Dreadnought shows 80%, all other things being equal.

Not that it does not make sense, but should this not be a stat that is displayed in the ship vendor?
Remember, STO is nothing but a cosmetics game, where only the rule of cool matters. The game mechanics are intentionally out of balance, don't try to "optimize" anything, as it would just frustrate you.
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Comments

  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 9,403 Arc User
    Because nobody cares about passive hull regen?!?
  • semalda226semalda226 Member Posts: 1,994 Arc User
    My entire hull healing aspect of my Tankiness is passive healing tyvm. I don't use hull healing skills because among my traits and gear (Borg 2 Piece) my hull literally heals itself!
    tumblr_mxl2nyOKII1rizambo1_500.png

  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,513 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    If you think that, then think again. Make a simple computation: At 90 000 hull hit points, a repair rate of 150% would mean a passive healing of 2250 per second outside of combat and 450 per second in combat. For comparison: Auxiliary to Structural II gives your ship a base heal of ca 3600 every 15 seconds (at 81 aux), or 240 per second.

    And I have pushed one Assault Cruiser Refit to a hull repair rate of 233% with skills and gear, at 89,180 hull hit points.


    Nobody cares? Everybody should.



    The thing is it’s far easier to boost the heal skills then hull regen. For example my Auxiliary to Structural II heals 10.5k with a 10second recharge. That’s 1050 hit points per second with a resistance boost far higher than I can push passive regen. I do fly passive hull regen builds as I like them but they are not effective to use and the new skill tree nerfed passive regen :(

    I do kind of like the idea of a passive shield and hull build next. Very ineffective but who cares.
  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 9,403 Arc User
    @sophlogimo you do realize that there are ways to lower cooldowns beyond having a second copy...right? And who needs hull heal when you can just vape things before they even touch your shields?
  • rmy1081rmy1081 Member Posts: 2,840 Arc User
    If your assault cruiser is t5u then you get an extra 10% hull regen. Also, larger ships would have more crew (I know that system was taken out but the regen bonus still exists) and as you already know, the more hull hp you have the better that repair % heals.

    I don't know what @coldnapalm and @pottsey5g are going on about. It's not hard to get a high passive hull regen. I get a 100% in combat without much of a sacrifice in dps (if any). It's just a different way of playing. It's not a must have but not having to heal hull even while taking damage is really nice.
  • rmy1081rmy1081 Member Posts: 2,840 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    rmy1081 wrote: »
    If your assault cruiser is t5u then you get an extra 10% hull regen. Also, larger ships would have more crew (I know that system was taken out but the regen bonus still exists) and as you already know, the more hull hp you have the better that repair % heals.[...]

    Yeah, but my point here is: When buying a ship, there is currently no way to know what the base hull repair rate will be, other than "it's a cruiser, it probably has more". Ships stats viewable at the vendor should include that base hull repair rate.

    BTW, the Jupiter class was supposed to have a very large crew, but it's base value is in the 80% range. So it is probably a bit more complicated than that.

    I agree.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,513 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    You do realize that this does not matter, as it has been shown that native hull regeneration is in the same ballpark as all the hull healing abilties? In other words, it is worth a boff power. Who would not want a free boff power?

    So, you say you would not want to know if the ship you are about to buy has a 80%, 150% or possibly a 200% hull repair rate?
    It’s not in the same ballpark at all. I have a bonus speed to skill recharge and 50% to hull healing from 2 consoles and another 30% I think it was from a trait so 80%. One can push active hull healing far higher and far more effectively than one can push passive regen.


    “I don't know what @coldnapalm and @pottsey5g are going on about. It's not hard to get a high passive hull regen.”
    @rmy1081 Passive regen doesn’t work as well as active healing. I prefer passive but it’s less effective. 2 consoles and 1 trait focused on active healing works far better then 2 consoles and 1 trait focused on passive.

  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,513 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    [...]
    It’s not in the same ballpark at all. I have a bonus speed to skill recharge and 50% to hull healing from 2 consoles and another 30% I think it was from a trait so 80%. One can push active hull healing far higher and far more effectively than one can push passive regen.[...]

    Care to share some numbers? Because I have given numbers (copied directly from actual game tooltips), and they show exactly how it is the same ballpark, passive hull repair rate vs. 1 boff ability.
    My current build is with 1 copy of each.

    Eng team 1 @ 10,541 per 18 seconds.
    AuxSif3 13,079 per 12 seconds
    Hazard Emitters 1 is 20,923k per 42 seconds
    Rally Point Marker 1, is 9653 with an extra 152 per second while ships stay within the marker area.

    I don’t have AuxSif2 fitted but its 10,462 if I did.

    The above times are not including The trait "Emergency Response" which knocks AuxSif down to 10seconds when below 50% hull and it also knocks Eng team down to the speed cap. Alternately I could take 3% more skill recharge with my spare skill point.

    As far as I can see passive regen lags far behind active healing. EDIT: That’s not even counting the other benefits I didn’t list here. Still I am going build another passive regen setup. It works just not as well as other setups.
    Post edited by pottsey5g on
  • semalda226semalda226 Member Posts: 1,994 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    Ok so with a hull of 75133

    The borg rep trait Hull Repairing Nanites heals 1% of my hull every 3 seconds that's 751.3 Hull every 3 seconds

    the Borg 2 piece healing 1% every 2 seconds for 751.3 hull
    So over 10 seconds I restore 6,235.79 hull passively and that's without buffs to the restoration at all. Nor is this adding the passive healing the ship already has (Annorax) but I do heal 5% of my hull every 3 seconds in combat.

    Edit: I should go on to note that I also have Ablative Shell and Nanite Repair Matrix slotted as well to add to passive healing.
    tumblr_mxl2nyOKII1rizambo1_500.png

  • kyle223catkyle223cat Member Posts: 583 Arc User
    A lot of my builds have about 150% hull regen rate (in combat). My hull bounces up pretty fast with this level of regeneration. It's definitely not useless.
    da84303d8bc4080b9860968f634f98682215bbe5.gifv
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,513 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    [...]
    My current build is with 1 copy of each.

    Eng team 1 @ 10,541 per 18 seconds.
    [...]

    That is impressive. (My own carrier with 3 pips in Hull Restoration gets 6000 per 30 seconds) Would you please list everything that boosted this, just so that it is observable what this cost you in your build. Also, could you add the class of the vessel?

    But even so: 10541/18= 585.6 per second. You can easily buff a cruiser to 250% for the cost of a deflector, a console, two trait slots, and three pips in Damage Control. At 90,000 hull, that would be 45000 per minute in combat, or 13,500 per 18 seconds. Bonus: It even works during cutscenes.

    Same ballpark. In ships that support this - which seem to be cruisers.

    Now, can we please have basic hull repair rate added to the stats in the ship vendor?
    I find passive healing outside of combat for the most part useless the only thing that matters is healing in combat.

    Little short of time as getting ready for work so if something not detailed enough ask away and I will post later. Battlecruiser.

    - Sustained Radiant Field console. 25% healing, 2 part set provides a boost to the temporary hitpoints when my Radiant Quantum torpedo hits.
    - Bio-Neural Gel, 7% cooldown reduction, 2 part Neut Torpedo.
    - Adapted MACO 2 part set 3.5% max hall every 6 seconds. (passive)
    - Regenerative Integrity Field 26.6% healing.

    Traits
    -Biotech Patch, 20% hull healing (this is a major one)
    -Give it your all, dodge 20% of all damage for 3 seconds on active hull heal.

    Star Ship Traits (I bealive there are no passive hull traits?)
    -Emergency Response
    -Desperate Repairs
    -Improved Temporal Insight.



    “You can easily buff a cruiser to 250% for the cost of a deflector, a console, two trait slots, and three pips in Damage Control.”
    How? I could do that in the old skill system but after the revamp I don’t seem to be close. I thought the Borg set was best for passive regen and the Borg Set & Nanite circuitry only gives me 170 (no traits) that puts me on 80% in combat at the expense of losing a lot of damage. What did I miss? Could be the traits are better then I remember. Also what’s the easy way to do the math to work out how much regen you get from passive hull healing?

    At 80% passive regen and 100k hull how often are the armor regen ticks? For example the Adapted MACO is 3.5% every 6 seconds but how to do the math to add that into the passive regen every x seconds? Didn't get enough sleep last night so might play with passive regen tomorrow.

  • shurkhemolightshurkhemolight Member Posts: 399 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    Because nobody cares about passive hull regen?!?

    Lol sadly this is true, unless im falling asleep, or get distracted otherwise nothing is left in front of my 3 tacs to hurt them anyway.

  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,193 Arc User
    Because nobody cares about passive hull regen?!?

    No, really, no one does.
    I7edZ33.jpg
  • kyle223catkyle223cat Member Posts: 583 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    I care about passive hull regen. I have about 350% hull regeneration rate on my science star cruiser. This amounts to about 150% in combat.

    What I use:
    1. 5 Human BOFFs plus my captain is Human
    2. Hull-Repairing Nanites Trait
    3. Kobali 2 Piece + Assimilated 2 Piece
    4. Rapid Repairs Trait which is the T2 Mastery Passive on the Science Star Cruiser
    5. 3 Points in Damage Control
    6. Techie Personal Trait
    da84303d8bc4080b9860968f634f98682215bbe5.gifv
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,513 Arc User
    kyle223cat wrote: »
    I care about passive hull regen. I have about 350% hull regeneration rate on my science star cruiser. This amounts to about 150% in combat.

    What I use:
    1. 5 Human BOFFs plus my captain is Human
    2. Hull-Repairing Nanites Trait
    3. Kobali 2 Piece + Assimilated 2 Piece
    4. Rapid Repairs Trait which is the T2 Mastery Passive on the Science Star Cruiser
    5. 3 Points in Damage Control
    6. Techie Personal Trait
    That looks to be a very large investment for very little benefit. Sure it works but its not very effective compared to a active hull heals. Didn't they change is so humans no longer stack? Humans (hull rep) have been changed so often I lost track.
  • kyle223catkyle223cat Member Posts: 583 Arc User
    They do stack, and I also have active hull heals as I'm a healer. 70k Hazard Emitters 3, 33k Engineering Team 3, 25k Aux2SIF 3, etc as well as all the usual healing gear and traits(Regenerative Integrity Field, Sustained Radiant Field, Hull Repairing Embassy Consoles [+Emit], Enhanced Neutroniums [+SIF], Biotech Patch, etc)
    da84303d8bc4080b9860968f634f98682215bbe5.gifv
  • kyle223catkyle223cat Member Posts: 583 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    It strange, but my active healing values, despite three pips in Hull Restoration, are much lower, regardless of the ship. For example, on a Fleet Aussault Cruiser Refit T5U, I get +7428 hp (at 113 aux) every 15 seconds, and I don't really see any options to actually triple that. Improve a bit, yes. But triple?

    This is my science star cruiser build:
    http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/c12ca33d1267cf5a77f804f7216b25d7

    It has a 24k Aux2SIF 3, I could get it higher if I used my SIF generators, but I would lose damage resistance.
    da84303d8bc4080b9860968f634f98682215bbe5.gifv
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,164 Arc User
    I haven't ran into anything in PVE-Land that makes me want to add good regen on top of ever-reliable, normal repairs, much less replace it as a primary means of repairs. The NPCs are still Derp and we got Moar Creep.
    XzRTofz.gif
  • e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    I am under the impression active heals are a better investment because they also give you a damage resistance boost on top of the heals so you actually get more bang for the buck in terms of skill investment. The top elite PVE tanks I know don't invest in regen either so there must be something into that.

    Also, I think Cruisers in general get a bonus to regen and healing?
  • e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Uh, nobody actually proposes to replace the one with the other.

    I just wanted to point out that this is a relevant ship stat, and all relevant ships stats should be displayed in the ship vendor.

    Ah yes, sorry I did not mean to imply that.

    I do think Cruisers get an innate boost to both regen and healing from its Mastery Tree. I am not in-game to confirm, but that could be why you are seeing disparities between your ships.
  • e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    That cannot be it, because you can observe this difference also on lower-tier cruisers, or cruisers where you don't have the Mastery yet.

    On T5-U and up at least the differences does seem partly due to Mastery:

    http://sto.gamepedia.com/Starship_Mastery

    For the lower tier ships, it could still be based on ship class (I know for sure Cruisers get bonus power levels for example). But you are right, this should be clearly shown in the shop selection.
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