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Na'kuhl Lock Box

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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Arc User
    kingmj4891 wrote: »
    I really dislike the F2P model of this game when it comes to all missions are free

    You actually think this game would survive in a different model? If people had to pay for the episodes this game would be dead.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    huskerklg wrote: »

    You never know who the Ferengi might contract out to. :P

    That was my guess also given they were relatively in the same neighborhood.

    Just a bit TOO similar for my aesthetic taste. Still will likely pick them up.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Arc User
    lots of nimble ships with low hull, I'll personally keep to my Sarr Theln.

    Plenty of ways to compensate for low hull, including lot of the pilot abilities themselves, and some of the mastery abilities: "While slotted, defeating any enemy will grant a Hull and Shield Heal over time effect."

    But fast ships tend to mean more FAW Beam array builds to compensate for the constant movement for most players.
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    risian4 wrote: »

    I very much doubt that. Rewards from a box or from an episode aren't that different to make and thus would likely demand the same kind of work. (That's just an assumption from my part of course, based on some vague idea.)

    I doubt it would make much difference. If they'd scale down the creation of lock boxes, we still wouldn't get many more episodes I think. LB's and the chance based system that underlies it a necessary evil to keep the game going, C-store sales probably wouldn't be able to cover the loss in revenue or I'd imagine that that option would have been explored by Cryptic. No one spends hundreds of euros on C-store items, even if they did, they'd only do it once.

    I know there are plenty of fools who do spend hundreds of euros on lb's, something they'd be unlikely to spend on C-store items. I'm one of those fools ;) and given there are multiple exclusive ships like the Vonph on the exchange, I can't be the only one.

    Well it would probably help to be clear on one point: there's episode rewards and the episode themselves. Obviously I can't say with any authority how this works in cryptic but, from other developers I've followed along with, gameplay related items (ie. "the sandbox") and levels/maps (ie. "the environments") tend to be handled by different people/teams within the company. One group works out the stuff while others are building out where that stuff is played. Granted they both involve rendered assets but there's some very different considerations behind them (especially when it comes to application) which you hope have been delegated to people who specialize in that specific type of content.

    So, cut lock boxes and you wouldn't necessarily be freeing up devs to work out more story missions (just as with the forum trope that cutting story missions would free up devs for bug testing, it's not a zero-sum problem). You'd probably have more people on hand who's job is working out more analogous content to what the lock boxes contained (ie. ships, gear, costumes.) Now of course cryptic could handle things completely differently and have their artists work on anything and everything that needs doing, but just how many new levels a few ground weapons, ships, and space FX are costing is a mightily uncertain question ("possibly some" is likely as far as we'll be able to speculate. :P)

    But here's where I don't understand the concern here: have we really had a noticeable drop in the frequency of ships, abilities, and other boxable items (or missions) before and after lock boxes? I can't say that we have (see. mission rewards since season 10 especially) except in one area: ground costumes which you can heap a good helping of criticism on Cryptic for (but pretty much as its own topic). Why might that be? Well, just look at what lock boxes generally have, out of faction ships, active abilities, and weapons that generally have been made for new or existing NPC's.

    It represents a whole lot of content recycling which, if you removed, might only free up a marginal amount of dev time even just relative to the total you could say went into the boxes (never mind in the grand scheme of things). So in justifying why lock boxes exist you probably don't have to use the point "well, it comes at a cost to everything else but it seems to make them a whole lot of money," because it might not actually take that great a bite out of other releases (except again for new tailor options, for which the Lobi store has pretty much replaced the C-Store.)

    Good points. The fact that most newer boxes contain episode-related stuff does make it questionable if cutting them from the game would result in more content indeed. I hadn't even thought about that yet.

    I also do agree that it's not a good thing that the C-store only gets new ships added (beside the promotions), and that all other new stuff is placed in the lobi store. It certainly wouldn't hurt to add some new costumes to the C-store next time, instead of the lobi store. Given how many people I see wearing lobi uniforms, I can imagine that they'd be quite popular.

    Assuming 5 lobi on average per box, with an occasional 7-15 and a few +20 drops, let's say it would take 20 keys to get enough lobi for a costume. Of course people don't usually buy the keys for the costume itself but to get a ship, but still, they spend the hard-earned lobi on a costume.

    It wouldn't surprise me if a few 1000-1500 Zen uniforms that look really awesome and nothing like the more standard uniforms in the C-store and it could still sell well. I think they'll need to add something else than ships sooner or later anyway.
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    huskerklg wrote: »
    lots of nimble ships with low hull, I'll personally keep to my Sarr Theln.

    Plenty of ways to compensate for low hull, including lot of the pilot abilities themselves, and some of the mastery abilities: "While slotted, defeating any enemy will grant a Hull and Shield Heal over time effect."

    But fast ships tend to mean more FAW Beam array builds to compensate for the constant movement for most players.

    I've come to appreciate Brace for Impact after the changes to Tachyon beam were made ;)
  • turbomagnusturbomagnus Member Posts: 3,479 Arc User
    While I'll agree that the forward-curving rear section with the panels does seem similar to the Ferengi ships (though I'd say more D'Kora than Nandi), you want to know what the Na'kuhl ships really remind me of? Does anyone else remember the Chaos ships from the old Battlefleet Gothic tabletop war game?

    The blood-red paintjobs, the outward-pointing peaks along the hulls, the hard-point of the battleship's prow - the biggest different is the Na'kuhl ships have smooth hulls rather than the BFG Chaos ships' latticework appearance...
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
    ^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
  • trillbuffettrillbuffet Member Posts: 861 Arc User
    With ummm the whole raider thing would be nice if we had bird of preys to get other than depending on lockbox ships.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,572 Arc User
    It is closer to 40 Lockboxes for a One Character Uniform (200 Zen). Average drop per box is 5. Assuming about an average of 100 Zen per Key (list price balanced against sale price for a rounded average). About 4,000 Zen ($40) per Uniform.

    Account-wide C-Store Uniform is 500 Zen.

    Do the math and think again about future C-Store Uniform chances.
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  • sunfranckssunfrancks Member Posts: 3,925 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    It is closer to 40 Lockboxes for a One Character Uniform (200 Zen). Average drop per box is 5. Assuming about an average of 100 Zen per Key (list price balanced against sale price for a rounded average). About 4,000 Zen ($40) per Uniform.

    Account-wide C-Store Uniform is 500 Zen.

    Do the math and think again about future C-Store Uniform chances.

    The only thing I am interested in is the uniforms, but being so expensive for a per character unlock put's be off entirely.

    I would rather put in that amount for a guaranteed account wide cstore ship..
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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,980 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    ltminns wrote: »
    It is closer to 40 Lockboxes for a One Character Uniform (200 Zen). Average drop per box is 5. Assuming about an average of 100 Zen per Key (list price balanced against sale price for a rounded average). About 4,000 Zen ($40) per Uniform.

    Account-wide C-Store Uniform is 500 Zen.

    Do the math and think again about future C-Store Uniform chances.

    Assuming, naturally, that the only thing you get out of those boxes is that one uniform. The problem for the simple math though is that there's other stuff too (which if you want to take from a production standpoint also costs dev time and whatever internal resources that requires.) The calculated cost of any lobi store item is that minus all the other content that went into the boxes. And because that's variable it's not directly comparable to c-store equivalents (as is readily apparent when examining ships.)

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  • tobiashirttobiashirt Member Posts: 630 Arc User
    Well, I don't think the raider is as common as a Malon ship, but it's a lot less rare than a grand prize ship.

    ...But still nothing resembling a consolation prize like the Malon ship. Looks like they went back to the herald box setup where you have a "regular" grand prize at (I'm guessing) similar to the odds of drawing a tarantula, krenim warship, or the like, and a figurative 1-in-a-million "deluxe" grand prize. Nobody should fool themselves thinking that just because there are 2 possible ships in the box, that the raider suddenly goes up in likelihood and the battlecruiser drops to normal odds.
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    It is closer to 40 Lockboxes for a One Character Uniform (200 Zen). Average drop per box is 5. Assuming about an average of 100 Zen per Key (list price balanced against sale price for a rounded average). About 4,000 Zen ($40) per Uniform.

    Account-wide C-Store Uniform is 500 Zen.

    Do the math and think again about future C-Store Uniform chances.

    Average drop, yes. But it happens quite often that you get 7, 10 or more, up to 50 from one box.

    And as pointed out by @duncanidaho11 , there's more in those boxes than just Lobi. For each box you open you might end up with enough EC to buy more keys. If you know which ones to open of course. Plenty of Doffs or other unique items such as traits that can be sold for enough EC to get multiple keys. I've had it happen quite often that I'd start with 10 keys and eventually I'd be able to open many more than just those first 10 boxes.

    I've seen plenty of people with lobi uniforms. If they're prepared to spend a lot of lobi on those items, I don't see why they wouldn't be prepared to spend a few thousand Zen which is still much easier to get for most people. There might be a market for new special uniforms if they're brought to the C-store.
  • turbomagnusturbomagnus Member Posts: 3,479 Arc User
    I know that I'm primarily an Exchange buyer for my Keys now - with the 50, 100 and 200k rewards from the Admiralty System, plus Contraband farming on KDF and KDF-Rom characters, I can easily make enough Account Bank enough EC to buy a Key a day off the Exchange... and if it's something I don't want or can't use (some Traits, Fleet Mark/Credit bonuses, etc.) I can re-sell those for more EC and just let the Lobi build up... then, of course, like has been mentioned, there's the times when I get something good like a Rich Dilithium Claim or something I can use (ships, traits, some Modules, etc.); it all allows me to save my Dilithium/Zen for other things. (Currently saving up for a Legacy Pack, even if the T6 Dreads keep tempting me...)
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
    ^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
  • zedbrightlander1zedbrightlander1 Member Posts: 14,782 Arc User
    Infiltrators and saboteurs, the Na'kuhl have become a scourge of the timelines. With the introduction of the Na’kuhl Lock Box, these powerful abilities can yours!

    Learn more in our first Lock Box blog here.

    ~Morrigan "LaughingTrendy"
    There's so much stuff in these boxes it feels like there should be part of a Reputation System. :)

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  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    the only thing interesting for me is the package of clothes, but i'm not going to gamble for lobis. why you don't put clothes in the c-store.

    if you could add also in the c-store a package of marauder clothes -kdf- (with LONG trousers and useable with everything), that would be interesting.

    for me now, clothes are the only thing that would make me open my wallet, like I have all the ships that I need (i'm not going to buy more).
  • valetharvalethar Member Posts: 174 Arc User
    Oh look. Yet another plasma weapon setup.

    Was there some sort of temporal rift that removed every other weapons type from the universe?
  • cuchulainn74cuchulainn74 Member Posts: 831 Arc User
    Wait, we've recently had Agony Phasers, Herald Antiproton, Coalition Disruptors, Vaadwaur Polaron...
    Is there something you're specifically waiting for, or just forgetting?
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  • turbomagnusturbomagnus Member Posts: 3,479 Arc User
    Infiltrators and saboteurs, the Na'kuhl have become a scourge of the timelines. With the introduction of the Na’kuhl Lock Box, these powerful abilities can yours!

    Learn more in our first Lock Box blog here.

    ~Morrigan "LaughingTrendy"
    There's so much stuff in these boxes it feels like there should be part of a Reputation System. :)

    Shh! Don't say that, they might listen and we'd end up with a 'Temporal War Reputation'!
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
    ^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
  • breadandcircusesbreadandcircuses Member Posts: 2,355 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    Active Rerouting (Ground)
    • Activating any Kit Module has a small chance of restoring a moderate amount of Shields.

    Sweeping Strikes just got really interesting...
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  • tarran61tarran61 Member Posts: 827 Arc User
    Everything looks really good in my book. I dont play the lockbox game anymore, I feel I have better odds playing blackjack. Just want to say thanks to the devs, the work looks great in the ships. Im hoping for something in the C-store other than a key sale. Either way, thanks again guys and gals. The 12th is almost upon us :+1:
    Positive thoughts.
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  • borgified007borgified007 Member Posts: 150 Arc User
    Daemosh science vessel looks an awful lot like a Narn Battlecruiser..... from Babylon 5. Also agree the raider definitely looks like the Vasari Dreadnought.
  • borgified007borgified007 Member Posts: 150 Arc User
    Monetizing the admirality system. We knew it was coming. I don't even bother with pass tokens.
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    Looks like somebody liked the look of the Mirak League vessels from Starfleet Command II.

    MirakHeavyCruiser.jpg

    looks like the osaarian merchant ship from enterprise in season 3, episode 2 "anomaly".
    The Daemosh Science vessel looks semi-influenced from the Babylon 5 Thirdspace fighter. The Tadari Raider looks like a Vasari Titan. Am I the only one seeing this?

    you should read back on page 1.
    After losing their homeworld to the machinations of the Tholian Assembly, the Na’kuhl people underwent a terrible transformation as they were forced into refugee status amongst the stars. They hold the Federation responsible for this loss, since it was they that failed to fulfill their promise of protecting the Na’kuhl.

    That's not true at all. What happened was a time traveler from the future brought a sun-killing superweapon back with him in time to save his own timeline, failed to secure it and got it stolen from him whereupon it was used against the Na'kuhl star. We then proceeded to recapture it and then the Temporal authority had it eliminated rather than try to use it to save the Na'kuhl. The same Temporal Authority then continues to refuse to do anything about it, and refuses Na'kuhl requests to be allowed to fix it themselves. Only after attempting to work within the system and getting nowhere do they finally rebel for the sake of billions of lives and their entire world.

    So to sum up, these future "heroes" create a mess by way of time travel used to save their own butts, utterly fail to do anything to clean it up and in fact actively prevent anyone else from fixing it either all because it turned out well for them and the innocent Na'kuhl are written off as collateral damage. And these are supposed to be the good guys, the ones we're helping? Are you freaking kidding me?

    We are on the WRONG side here. And I refuse to play this storyline so long as it requires me to choose the side of genocide against an innocent species.​​

    What happened was that tholian raiders got this weapon and used it, the time traveller and the local help didnt make much difference until afterwards, the na'khul leaders didnt have a particularly great dealing with other races, and as a result the na'khul people dispersed through the stars after their homeworld became uninhabitable and their leader blamed you for this disaster.

    only a small band of misguided na'khul were the ones who started attacking outright though, i doubt the rest of the ma'khul people were so willing to sacrifice themselves for a cause that is not theirs. however starfleet did what they could to help the na'khul refugees, some willingly refused and other accepted the aid.

    to side with these na'khul terrorists just because they were destined to have this happen to them as the timeline demanded it, doesnt make fighting starfleet, klingons or romulans worth destroying them over it as there is no point, the action has already happened and adding more deaths wont help anything.

    the chances are that in knowing this war is coming, starfleet/kdf/rr could help those na'khul who are displaced and give them hope and thereby avoiding what you would consider genocide because i doubt the na'khul people themselves all want to join this.
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  • azpatraoazpatrao Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    Love the designs! Beautiful ships
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    It always disheartens me to see these wonderful costumes they make get shoved into the lobi store for extortionate prices. I'd happily buy all of the costumes if they were in the c-store. I've only ever bought the Vaadwaur costume because I really liked it but if these were c-store I'd happily part with some zen in the quiet periods between ship releases.
    The choice of costumes to buy from the c-store is getting a tad dated now.
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  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    @pwlaughingtrendy a question~

    If you open a [Chronoplasma Weapon Pack] and choose beam weapons is there a possibility of getting 360° Chronoplasma Beam Array?

    The 360° Agony Phase Arrays were a great addition to the Temporal Incursion Lock Boxes and I'm hoping the trend continues.
  • kianazerokianazero Member Posts: 247 Arc User
    risian4 wrote: »

    I very much doubt that. Rewards from a box or from an episode aren't that different to make and thus would likely demand the same kind of work. (That's just an assumption from my part of course, based on some vague idea.)

    I doubt it would make much difference. If they'd scale down the creation of lock boxes, we still wouldn't get many more episodes I think. LB's and the chance based system that underlies it a necessary evil to keep the game going, C-store sales probably wouldn't be able to cover the loss in revenue or I'd imagine that that option would have been explored by Cryptic. No one spends hundreds of euros on C-store items, even if they did, they'd only do it once.

    So, cut lock boxes and you wouldn't necessarily be freeing up devs to work out more story missions (just as with the forum trope that cutting story missions would free up devs for bug testing, it's not a zero-sum problem). You'd probably have more people on hand who's job is working out more analogous content to what the lock boxes contained (ie. ships, gear, costumes.)

    This is quite true, and as a person who works in Retail, VERY few people believe/understand (or want to believe/understand) this. I can't count the number of customers who see me working in the Garden Center, and automatically think I have a Masters Degree in Indoor Plumbing, work on the Company Website, know when a specific item from three departments over will be delivered, or can fix the bugs in what the Website says we have compared to what we really have.

    Just because I'm the guy stocking the shelves with plant food and water the plants does not mean I have the expertise to know how to fix a leaking toilet or what bedsheets go with certain curtains after Labor Day, nor do I know how to fix the website or how to tell Corporate to get off their behind and correct the mistake you saw a week ago! And pulling me off my job of stocking the shelves with plant food will not make the website work any faster or better!

    And the same can be said of any game company. They'll have people who have skills and knowledge in one thing but not in another. Their Head 3D Artist and his team will not necessarily have the coding know-how to fix bugs, and their Coding Team probably only spends an hour or two entering the ship/weapon/console stats into the system, copy-pastes the old LB rewards like the R&D Packs to the new one, and sends it up for review before getting back to what they were doing.

    I can remember when City of Heroes revamped one zone to make it more friendly to new players; shifting the harder mobs to other areas, spreading mobs further out, changing a few enemy groups around, and players started complaining "Why revamp The Hollows? You could have used that all that time to fix bugs!" and one dev popped on the forums to say "I did this revamp in about two hours. At home. By myself." so there was no appreciable Dev Time lost in revamping the zone (which was just changing the enemies/the level range) that could have been allocated for bug fixing.
  • jtoon74jtoon74 Member Posts: 409 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    What I find amusing is people complaining about the aesthetics of the ships. Alot of Star Ttrek fans seem to love the Enterprise-D style ship and not only have I personally always found it fairly ugly, in STO it handles like a brick. Awful ship.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,980 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    jtoon74 wrote: »
    What I find amusing is people complaining about the aesthetics of the ships. Alot of Star Ttrek fans seem to love the Enterprise-D style ship and not only have I personally always found it fairly ugly, in STO it handles like a brick. Awful ship.

    Aesthetics are something that's difficult to criticize but it can be done. Sometimes there's a point to make that a given thing doesn't fit, doesn't work, or isn't finished but that always comes down to how those aesthetics work within a functional media (there's a thing that art's trying to do but for some problem or another that isn't happening). However that's divorced from the question of what you do or don't find tasteful. :tongue:

    Rule of thumb for people: if the statement deals only with "I" when talking about how something looks you should try your darnedest to make sure you don't appear to be reflexing that reaction as something others (implicitly) should be concerned about. It's just personal trivial you're sharing. :smile:
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  • bumperthumperbumperthumper Member Posts: 513 Arc User
    As far as aesthetics, i think this sums up the whole "eye of the beholder" thing.
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    Honestly, I don't have a problem w/the ships so far. Just waiting on the official stats to make a decision.
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