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Lock Box Ships: Specialization Review

nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
First a look at more recent Lock Boxes.

-- Lock Boxes released after introduction of Specializations --
[Delta Expedition Lock Box]
* Benthan Assault Cruiser: Already has Intel seating.
[Vaadwaur Lock Box]
* Manasa Assault Escort (T6) : Already has Intel seating.
[Xindi-Terrestrial Lock Box]
* Insectoid Olaen Heavy Escort Carrier: Has both Command and Pilot seating.
[Year of Hell Lock Box]
* Krenim Imperium Warship (T6): Has both Intel and Pilot seating.
[Herald Lock Box]
* Vonph Dreadnoaught Carrier: Has both Command and Intel seating.
* Quas Flight Deck Cruiser: Has both Command and Intel seating.
[Mirror Incursion Lock Box]
*Tarantula Dreadnought Cruiser: Has both Command and Intel seating.


The pattern is clear: these ships should showcase the flexibility offered by the Specialization system and have a slightly wider than average range of build options. The older “grand prize” ships should be reviewed to bring them more in line with current standards and maintain the appeal of their related lock boxes as a target for master keys. Suggestions follow:

-- Pre-specialization Lock Boxes --
[Cardassian Lock Box]
* Galor Class Cruiser: Lieutenant Engineering seat becomes Engineering/Intel.
[Ferengi Lock Box]
* D’Kora Marauder: Lieutenant Engineering seat becomes Engineering/Command.
[Tholian Lock Box]
* Orb Weaver: Lieutenant Commander Universal seat becomes Universal/Intel.
[Temporal Lock Box]
* Wells Temporal Science Vessel: Lieutenant Universal seat becomes Universal/Pilot.
* Korath Temporal Science Vessel: Lieutenant Universal seat becomes Universal/Pilot.
* R’Mor Temporal Science Vessel: Lieutenant Universal seat becomes Universal/Pilot.
[Dominion Lock Box]
* Jem’Hadar Heavy Escort Carrier: Lieutenant Universal seat becomes Universal/Command.
Update!! Re-released as a full T6 with a Lieutenant Engineering/Intel bridge officer seat and a Lieutenant Commander Universal/Pilot seat.
[Tal Shiar Lock Box]
* Tal Shiar Adapted Destroyer: One Lieutenant Universal seat becomes Universal/Pilot.
[Elachi Lock Box]
* S’golth Escort: One Lieutenant Universal seat becomes Universal/Pilot.
[Voth Lock Box]
* Bastion Flight Deck Cruiser: Lieutenant Commander Science seat becomes Science/Command.
[Hirogen Lock Box]
* Hunter Heavy Escort: Lieutenant Universal seat becomes Universal/Pilot.
[Undine Lockbox]
* Nicor Bio-Warship: Lieutenant Commander Universal seat becomes Universal/Intel.
[Xindi-Amphibious Lock Box]
* Narcine Dreadnought Carrier: Lieutenant Science seat becomes Science/Pilot.

Thank you for your consideration :).
Post edited by nikeix on

Comments

  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    Some of the ships you've listed are not lock box ships, but lobi ones. And there's a huge difference in price between those in some cases.

    That being said, it would make sense to add specialisations to these expensive ships. Might make the older ones a bit more attractive and boost sales.
  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    risian4 wrote: »
    Some of the ships you've listed are not lock box ships, but lobi ones. And there's a huge difference in price between those in some cases.

    I built that list directly from the wiki entries for the lock boxes without opening the Lobi Store page. Which Lobi store ship(s) snuck in?
    That being said, it would make sense to add specializations to these expensive ships. Might make the older ones a bit more attractive and boost sales.

    That's the real pay off for the Cryptic side - more appealing ships (hopefully without making them more powerful ships...) drives EC prices up and makes pulling the arm on the lock box slot-machine more attractive.
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    nikeix wrote: »
    risian4 wrote: »
    Some of the ships you've listed are not lock box ships, but lobi ones. And there's a huge difference in price between those in some cases.

    I built that list directly from the wiki entries for the lock boxes without opening the Lobi Store page. Which Lobi store ship(s) snuck in?
    That being said, it would make sense to add specializations to these expensive ships. Might make the older ones a bit more attractive and boost sales.

    That's the real pay off for the Cryptic side - more appealing ships (hopefully without making them more powerful ships...) drives EC prices up and makes pulling the arm on the lock box slot-machine more attractive.

    Derp. I may have been mistaken. They seem to be lock box ships indeed.
  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    All good. If I goofed I want to fix it :).
  • vegeta50024vegeta50024 Member Posts: 2,336 Arc User
    just FYI OP, any lock box ship pre-dating Delta Rising is going to be Tier 5/Tier 5-U. Specializations have been stated that they're for Tier 6 only, so they would need to be updated to Tier 6 first before they get specializations.

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  • mainamaina Member Posts: 430 Arc User
    Your list looks like it's T5 VS T6. All the new ships with specialization are T6, the ones without are T5. If you want to add more value, adding specialization seems kinda just a call to make them T6.

    I'm not going to double check all the ships, but that's the difference I see. You want to add value, T6 is better, just as easy as just a specialization. Why open a old lockbox for a T5 ship with specialization, and feel like your gimped by a T6 with specialization?

    Good idea, but specializations are T6 and that is the real value. Up the old ships to T6. The bad business man in me says, all lock boxes opened from set date give you a T6 varient, all older lockbox ships (already opened) can take a second upgrade token to go from T5-U to T6. >:)
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  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    maina wrote: »
    Your list looks like it's T5 VS T6. All the new ships with specialization are T6, the ones without are T5. If you want to add more value, adding specialization seems kinda just a call to make them T6.

    With their built in T-5U upgrades the "grand prizes" already have the distinctive 11 consoles of T6 ships. "The call" to make them "True T6" beyond the Specialist seating and possibly a small bump in Hull HP would be that they would each require a Starship-Trait... which is a hell of a lot more work than I'm asking for :sunglasses:. Re-flagging some seats is probably a much simpler undertaking than cobbling together ELEVEN more Ship-Traits. The kind of minor task I'm hoping they would consider as more of QoL pass and incentive for buy keys :).
    The bad business man in me says, all lock boxes opened from set date give you a T6 variant, all older lockbox ships (already opened) can take a second upgrade token to go from T5-U to T6. >:)

    Honestly I'd buy/use a fleet module or upgrade token to get just the improved seating on the two "grand prize" ships I have. Its not a spectacularly good value, but it would still let me do some builds I can only daydream about now.

  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    Since we're talking possible ways to expand the pool of T6 ships again, I thought I'd mention this list again :).
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 7,058 Arc User
    This'll all be fixed with Cardassian Lockbox II, Undine Lockbox II, etc
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  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    I don't know that there's much advantage in obsoleting existing boxes...
  • vegeta50024vegeta50024 Member Posts: 2,336 Arc User
    nikeix wrote: »
    I don't know that there's much advantage in obsoleting existing boxes...

    Wouldn't it have been better to start a new thread?

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  • dalolorndalolorn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    maina wrote: »
    Your list looks like it's T5 VS T6. All the new ships with specialization are T6, the ones without are T5. If you want to add more value, adding specialization seems kinda just a call to make them T6.

    I'm not going to double check all the ships, but that's the difference I see. You want to add value, T6 is better, just as easy as just a specialization. Why open a old lockbox for a T5 ship with specialization, and feel like your gimped by a T6 with specialization?

    Good idea, but specializations are T6 and that is the real value. Up the old ships to T6. The bad business man in me says, all lock boxes opened from set date give you a T6 varient, all older lockbox ships (already opened) can take a second upgrade token to go from T5-U to T6. >:)

    For more profit, make the Lobi ships upgrade too - crank the price up to 900 Lobi, and tell players that they can upgrade their existing T5U Lobi ships to T6 if they pay the extra Lobi.

    I know I'd probably be up for that. :p

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  • tessaravejgantessaravejgan Member Posts: 276
    Old ships are old. Why waste resources on them when those boxes aren't available anymore anyway outside the begging of a new season and they keep introducing new fancy ships all the time making bags of cash selling keys in the process.
  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    They have all the old boxes available weekends from time to time, which let you buy piles of any box you want for a pittance in dilithium. That's above and beyond the thousands of them available on the exchange 24/7. Thye're still very much part of the game's economy and RWM financial engine. Keeping them relevant is keeping that faucet turned on.
  • tessaravejgantessaravejgan Member Posts: 276
    I've been here about some one and half yrs and never seen them being available outside of new season. I'm not gonna say never to making those old ships T6 because a precedent has already been set but I don't want to see them. I spent hundreds of millions and a lot of time gathering some of those old T5 ships and to see them then at T6 would make me feel kinda stupid :smile:
  • dareaudareau Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    When they went back and "overhauled" all the then T5+1 equivalent lockbox & lobi ships to the Fleet T5 standard, a statement was made that all lockbox and lobi ships would be kept "at the top of the power structure to prevent invalidation of such a tremendously expensive purchase".

    While one can argue that, due to funky equivalencies, the T5U11 level has the same statistics as a Fleet T6, and that a subset of Fleet T6s - specifically all Fleet T6s that have a C-store and Fleet Yard variant - do not have a baked in mastery trait (said mastery trait is supposed to come from the purchase and use of the C-store variant), the only thing lacking from the T5U11 lockbox and lobi ships that's part and parcel of the T6 system is the specialist seat(s).

    So, I agree with the OP. Going ahead to retrofit a specialist seat into all the lockbox & lobi ships would be a worthwhile endeavor. However, I'll go a touch farther and recommend that a "given ship family" should also be given a mastery trait that's currently available only to the Federation - for example, I think All Hands on Deck hasn't been released to the KDF and Rommies yet - so attaching AHOD to all the, say, Tal'Shiar Adapted Destroyer (lockbox) and T'S. Adapt. Battlecruiser (lobi) birds would be a method to get that trait to the remaining playerbase. D'Kora could pick up the Nandi's trait, etc.

    Yeah, this "skews" the options for future lockbox trait swaps, but then again, how easy is it to do lockbox trait swaps when all the KDF and RR ships are being handed the trait from it's "Matching Fed Contemporary"?
    Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...

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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    I think it will be interesting to see what they do on the consoles. Since every console player will start with a clean slate - will they rerun the old lockboxes? Will they make Tier 6 variants for future lockboxes? Will they create some "old times" lockbox that combines all those old ships and item rewards? (Plasmonic Leech is stuck in a Tier 5 era console, for example)
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  • pcscipiopcscipio Member Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited May 2016
    nikeix wrote: »
    maina wrote: »
    Your list looks like it's T5 VS T6. All the new ships with specialization are T6, the ones without are T5. If you want to add more value, adding specialization seems kinda just a call to make them T6.

    With their built in T-5U upgrades the "grand prizes" already have the distinctive 11 consoles of T6 ships. "The call" to make them "True T6" beyond the Specialist seating and possibly a small bump in Hull HP would be that they would each require a Starship-Trait... which is a hell of a lot more work than I'm asking for :sunglasses:. Re-flagging some seats is probably a much simpler undertaking than cobbling together ELEVEN more Ship-Traits. The kind of minor task I'm hoping they would consider as more of QoL pass and incentive for buy keys :).
    The bad business man in me says, all lock boxes opened from set date give you a T6 variant, all older lockbox ships (already opened) can take a second upgrade token to go from T5-U to T6. >:)

    Honestly I'd buy/use a fleet module or upgrade token to get just the improved seating on the two "grand prize" ships I have. Its not a spectacularly good value, but it would still let me do some builds I can only daydream about now.

    T5U lockbox and lobi ships are actually 3 steps behind T6 lockbox and lobi ships:

    1- Starship trait
    2- Specialisation seats
    3 - T6 has one more bridge officer skill (13 over 12 for all ships except raiders - 12 over 11-)

    Cryptic only made the number of consoles (11) on par.
    For the old lockbox ship it would be more valuable upgrading either a ensign seat co lt, or a lt seat to lt. cmdr. rather than adding specialisation.
  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    This'll all be fixed with Cardassian Lockbox II, Undine Lockbox II, etc

    Or though the infinity box! :)

    http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10199593-infinity-lock-box

    So, now we know - the old grand prize and lobi ships are getting a new lease on life as T6's with full console upgrade, starship trait and specialist seating.

    As an added bonus they're being even more generous that my initial request with multiple specialist seats and some ships getting mixed specialist types (Jem'hadar Hv. Escort Carrier with Intel AND Pilot seats! Hotness!!).

    I cannot wait to see the upgraded Undine and Tal Shiar T6s. Well played Cryptic, you WILL be getting gobs of cash from me to upgrade my TSA-Destroyer on my main.

    Another segment of the FTC thread bites the dust. Hallelujah.
  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    BAD NECROMANCER!! No cookies!
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  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    What actually goes through people's heads when they GLORIFY having the short term memory of a goldfish?

    Only one piece of data in this thread is out-of-date and I marked it with an update edit in the first post.

    People sit here wringing their hands and wail "woe is we, they never listen to players!" This is an MMO. The minimum turn around time on anything is 4-8 months so thanks to this "ooo, bad necromancer' obsession no one can actually SEE THAT REQUESTS DO GET ACTED ON.

    And if you're so goddam thrilled about rules then stop posting "I want everyone to see what a great little mini-Mod I imagine myself to be" and just click the flag button. Like the mods have SPECIFICALLY TOLD YOU TO DO. Because more than once the Mods have understood the intent and value of my bringing up old posts and how they reveal the SUCCESSES of the game that took longer than 2 months to come to fruition...
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    That they release them in the infinity box suggests that they still have a long list of ideas for new lockbox ships and don't want to just fill the boxes with repeat showings. Neat.

    On "the other note"
    It's not exactly an uncommon attitutude of people that they stop thinking about why a rule exist and just blindly follow them.
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  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    That they release them in the infinity box suggests that they still have a long list of ideas for new lockbox ships and don't want to just fill the boxes with repeat showings. Neat.

    It really is. Having the Infinity boxes not only weld together the reward pools of all the old boxes but ALSO be a source of completely new ship (in terms of mechanics even if the skins are re-used) is kind of amazing.

    While it does mean they've dropped the idea that acquiring lock box ships means you've invested in a permanent endgame ship, and I will say that having the option to use zeni-store upgrade modules to PAY to update a grand prize ship you already have would be a nice alterative to have in addition to the ships being part of the new redemption box, I can set both those quibbles aside in exchange for their being any movement on this issue at all. Its the least cheap option for me as a player with several T5 lock box ships I enjoy flying enough to replace. But at least the option to upgrade will exist.
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    Personally I think lobi and lock box ships are still interesting enough, even when they will never be T6. The Xindi Narcine carrier for example is still one of my favorites.

    If you have enough ship traits, then you don't really another one anyway. I rarely use specialisation seatings, I've found the standard sci, tac and engineering abilities to be too useful to replace them with what I in most cases consider fun but ultimately not that much more useful specialisation stuff.

    I do believe that these ships deserve one more Boff power though, as that does still make a huge difference even with all the cooldown reduction stuff we have nowadays.

    That being said, a full T6 upgrade token would be nice to have for those interested in it. And if there are ships that are deserving of such a thing, it's the ones that are less likely to get T6 versions anytime soon and that were quite expensive to get at T5 already. I certainly think that older lobi and lock box ships deserve at least some attention.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    I wouldn't say never... (points at Galor)
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