test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

2.5% Time To Adjust For Inflation?

xapocalypseponyxxapocalypseponyx Member Posts: 577 Arc User
As many know, 2.5% is pretty much the standard for Proc rates in STO. Phasers have a 2.5% chance to take 1 subsystem offline. Tetryon, 2.5% chance for extra shield damage, etc. I've been thinking, with all that's occurred since the early days of STO, maybe it's time to take another look at that standard proc rate.

I've pretty much ditched all of my Reputation weapons, because 2.5% chance to do whatever typically does not make up for not having some of the pretty spectacular mods you can get on crafted weapons. Not to mention, the elephant in the room. Who cares about a 2.5% chance to do a couple hundred extra shield damage with Tetryons, when Antiproton's are dishing out all kinds of extra hurt at a 30% Crit rate?

I've suggested before leveling the playing field. Having all "enhancements" Proc on Crit. That was not received well. :) So how about just doubling the rate for weapons to 5% and see how that goes? Double the chance for you to take advantage of your chosen weapon's specialty, but at still only 5%, hopefully not stepping on any toes.

And I say weapons, because I don't think we need to include things like the Embassy consoles just yet.

2.5% Time To Adjust For Inflation? 61 votes

Yea
67% 41 votes
Nay
32% 20 votes

Comments

  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,602 Arc User
    No, never in a million years. They should be reducing power creep. IMO having CritH at more than 5% is over-powered, yet there are people claiming they have more than 20%!
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • xapocalypseponyxxapocalypseponyx Member Posts: 577 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    20% Crit rate is easily achievable these days. 30+% for Romulans. As for power creep, my Sig may give some indication of my feelings towards run-away power creep. What I'm suggesting is more of power balance. Giving a little something to the weapons that, in my opinion at least, have been left behind.

    -Edit-

    And just FYI, Proc rate is different than Crit rate. Proc rate being how often your weapon's special ability takes affect, with Crit rate being how often you do extra damage.
  • thatcursedwolfthatcursedwolf Member Posts: 1,617 Arc User
    I'd even put AP's proc on a flat 2.5% chance to deal an extra CritD's worth of damage and take it off of CritH.
    This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
  • tessaravejgantessaravejgan Member Posts: 276
    Not sure, I don't know much about how that stuff works but I wouldn't mind having some other abilities that do dmg turned into % based. For instance there's a power that does say 300 shield or hull dmg or something and then you go fight an enemy that has thousands or 100s of thousands shield or hull and more depending on difficulty.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,865 Arc User
    How about changing the phaser proc to something useful in PVE first? 2.5% chance to do nothing.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    How about changing the phaser proc to something useful in PVE first? 2.5% chance to do nothing.

    When this game launched, Phasers were the best proc. There was no subsystem shutdown protection / lockouts back then. When you had a bunch of Feds shooting Phasers at a target in PVE or PVP, the target would suffer from a chain of random shutdowns, including shields. Taking those shots from a team of Feds and surviving was an artform back then. But when Science got nerfed into oblivion in about 2011, one of the things affected was Subsystem Disables & Shutdowns. Phaser Proc took it in the teeth alongside Science BOFF abilities.

    There's tons of other procs that are very weak. Voth AP, Tetryon, Polaron has no purpose outside a Drain Build, etc.

    Disruptor had always had a decent place. AP's initial problem was that it was a rare weapon and crit rates were nothing at all like today compared to launch.
    XzRTofz.gif
  • kyrrokkyrrok Member Posts: 1,352 Arc User
    How about changing the phaser proc to something useful in PVE first? 2.5% chance to do nothing.

    When this game launched, Phasers were the best proc. There was no subsystem shutdown protection / lockouts back then. When you had a bunch of Feds shooting Phasers at a target in PVE or PVP, the target would suffer from a chain of random shutdowns, including shields. Taking those shots from a team of Feds and surviving was an artform back then. But when Science got nerfed into oblivion in about 2011, one of the things affected was Subsystem Disables & Shutdowns. Phaser Proc took it in the teeth alongside Science BOFF abilities.

    There's tons of other procs that are very weak. Voth AP, Tetryon, Polaron has no purpose outside a Drain Build, etc.

    Disruptor had always had a decent place. AP's initial problem was that it was a rare weapon and crit rates were nothing at all like today compared to launch.

    Which brings us back to the question of "Which type of proc should replace disable a random subsystem so as to make it worthwhile?".
  • daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    I wish They would just make the weapons give extra bonuses to specific faction ships.
    Leave the existing 2.5% stuff alone for everybody but...

    Give the Fed's an extra 2.5% for using Phasers on Federation ships...
    Give the Klink's an extra 2.5% for using Disruptors on Klingon ships...
    Give the Rom's an extra 2.5% for using Plasmas on Romulan ships...
    (the Romulan players would not get the extra Federation or Klingon percentages)

    Then They could add 2.5% for anybody using Polarons on Dominion ships...

    ... and so forth.
    Folks could still load whatever type of weapons they wish, but staying true to their faction would be a bit more advantageous.
    B)
    STO Member since February 2009.
    I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
    Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
    upside-down-banana-smiley-emoticon.gif
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    kyrrok wrote: »
    How about changing the phaser proc to something useful in PVE first? 2.5% chance to do nothing.

    When this game launched, Phasers were the best proc. There was no subsystem shutdown protection / lockouts back then. When you had a bunch of Feds shooting Phasers at a target in PVE or PVP, the target would suffer from a chain of random shutdowns, including shields. Taking those shots from a team of Feds and surviving was an artform back then. But when Science got nerfed into oblivion in about 2011, one of the things affected was Subsystem Disables & Shutdowns. Phaser Proc took it in the teeth alongside Science BOFF abilities.

    There's tons of other procs that are very weak. Voth AP, Tetryon, Polaron has no purpose outside a Drain Build, etc.

    Disruptor had always had a decent place. AP's initial problem was that it was a rare weapon and crit rates were nothing at all like today compared to launch.

    Which brings us back to the question of "Which type of proc should replace disable a random subsystem so as to make it worthwhile?".

    If we're talking strictly Phasers, remove Subsystem Disable Lockouts (which also applies to SCI BOFF abilities and unnerfing Viral Matrix), then we're talking.

    You guys should have seen the chaos on a target unnerfed Phaser Proc did in both PVP and PVE. Most especially so since in those early days, EVERY Fed in PVP and PVE used Phasers. With a bunch of Feds focusing on a target, systems randomly shutting down made Phasers a very powerful proc in those days. Phasers were so good back then that even a small portion of the KDF playerbase, including myself resorted to using them even in PVP. Yes, KDF ships using Phasers. When the Lockout came with those Science nerfs, Phaser was instantly worthless except for "aesthetic purity" reasons on a Starfleet ship.

    No proc in the game had fallen so far as Phaser proc did. It's 2.5% proc rate wasn't an issue before the massive nerf, especially with all the Phasers a ship could mount and the number of users.
    XzRTofz.gif
  • lowy1lowy1 Member Posts: 964 Arc User
    Tie the procs to power levels or stats like Polaron drain being affected by flow caps:

    Something like this for each base weapon type:
    Polaron - flow caps
    Plasma - prtg
    Disruptor - subspace decompiler
    Phaser - auxiliary power
    Tetryon - graviton gens
    Ap would use nothing
    HzLLhLB.gif

  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    I think it would be nice to see some sort of standardization of procs across the board.

    Most weapons have 2.5% chance but then you have protonic polaron that is 25% chance based off the critH value (so is the only proc rate that you can actually change) or the player and basic antiproton which is "always on" and so is instantly better than anything else.

    Then you've got torps with all manner of weird proc rates:
    • Grav torp procs on all torps with a 33% chance.
    • Quantum phase torp proce on only a single torp with 100% chance.
    • Particle emission torp proc on all torps with a 100% chance

    And that's just 3 types, it's seriously confusing how this work in this game, there's just no standard rule to what to expect.
    SulMatuul.png
  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    I actually like the idea of shifting the base-line critical severity buff that anti-proton weapons get to a similar 2.5% chance to proc for a limited duration (say 5-10 second duration). It is true that back when anti-proton weapons were rare it was understandable to have a base-line buff such as critical severity, but now that they are much more common place it should be shifted in line with some of the other weapon types. This could also lead to making more of the other weapons more viable than currently are seen to be.

    I would not mind seeing more things tagged onto the power sub-systems like the damage reduction from torpedos on shields, in that based on how much power you have in your shield system it would determine how much of a torpedo's damage is reduced instead of a static amount like it is now. Another thing that would be nice atleast with tetryon is is that it might have a chance to negate the shield recharge of the target for a period of time,
  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    This wouldn't be power creep so much as differentiating weapon types better by making procs more reliable, I've suggested this in the past myself and I totally agree with it. 2.5% is just useless.

    NPC'S would benefit from this just as much as players.
  • This content has been removed.
  • xapocalypseponyxxapocalypseponyx Member Posts: 577 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    I think people are greatly over estimating the effect this would have. You can actually get a preview of what it would be like, with the 2 piece bonus from the Counter Command Ordnance set. It raises the proc rate for Biomolecular Incubation (bonus radiation damage that ignores shields) up to 4.5%. I can tell you from personal experience, even at 4.5% it adds a minuscule amount to your overall damage.

    Alternatively, do like I did and load a ship with Rapid modded weapons. I have 6 of them. 6 weapons each with a 2.5% chance to trigger Rapid fire. Try it and see just how often procs happen at 2.5%.

    If you are concerned about power creep, that ship has sailed my friends and like the Titanic, I don't think it's coming back. Again, I'm talking about a small increase to secondary weapon assets to bring them a tiny, tiny bit closer to being useful. I can assure you, the players ripping through your ISA with 150K DPS are not going to be switching to Tetryons because they are procing at 5%.
  • kyrrokkyrrok Member Posts: 1,352 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    kyrrok wrote: »
    How about changing the phaser proc to something useful in PVE first? 2.5% chance to do nothing.

    When this game launched, Phasers were the best proc. There was no subsystem shutdown protection / lockouts back then. When you had a bunch of Feds shooting Phasers at a target in PVE or PVP, the target would suffer from a chain of random shutdowns, including shields. Taking those shots from a team of Feds and surviving was an artform back then. But when Science got nerfed into oblivion in about 2011, one of the things affected was Subsystem Disables & Shutdowns. Phaser Proc took it in the teeth alongside Science BOFF abilities.

    There's tons of other procs that are very weak. Voth AP, Tetryon, Polaron has no purpose outside a Drain Build, etc.

    Disruptor had always had a decent place. AP's initial problem was that it was a rare weapon and crit rates were nothing at all like today compared to launch.

    Which brings us back to the question of "Which type of proc should replace disable a random subsystem so as to make it worthwhile?".

    If we're talking strictly Phasers, remove Subsystem Disable Lockouts (which also applies to SCI BOFF abilities and unnerfing Viral Matrix), then we're talking.

    You guys should have seen the chaos on a target unnerfed Phaser Proc did in both PVP and PVE. Most especially so since in those early days, EVERY Fed in PVP and PVE used Phasers. With a bunch of Feds focusing on a target, systems randomly shutting down made Phasers a very powerful proc in those days. Phasers were so good back then that even a small portion of the KDF playerbase, including myself resorted to using them even in PVP. Yes, KDF ships using Phasers. When the Lockout came with those Science nerfs, Phaser was instantly worthless except for "aesthetic purity" reasons on a Starfleet ship.

    No proc in the game had fallen so far as Phaser proc did. It's 2.5% proc rate wasn't an issue before the massive nerf, especially with all the Phasers a ship could mount and the number of users.

    Exactly. With the phaser proc nullified, it would be nice if it got a new proc instead.

    Back to the issue though, I would only like to see a single, one-per-ship proc increase console sort of deal. I'm neither overly optimistic about it, nor am I overly desperate for something like it to happen.
  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »
    No, never in a million years. They should be reducing power creep. IMO having CritH at more than 5% is over-powered, yet there are people claiming they have more than 20%!

    You might want to re-read the OP post, before posting something not on topic!
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    lowy1 wrote: »
    Tie the procs to power levels or stats like Polaron drain being affected by flow caps:

    Something like this for each base weapon type:
    Polaron - flow caps [seems right]
    Plasma - prtg [maybe]
    Disruptor - subspace decompiler [hell no]
    Phaser - auxiliary power [hell no, should be either flow caps, or better yet subspace decomp]
    Tetryon - graviton gens [change this to either flow caps, or partcile gens]
    Ap would use nothing

    Made some changes!
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • This content has been removed.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    IMO, it's not the proc % that's hurting some of those procs. When you have a fully armed ship of that type, that proc is going to happen sooner rather than later.

    The problem is that a number of those procs considered weak today have never scaled up properly, even in the STO launch era where there was no power creep.

    Standard Tetryon Proc - Flow Caps dependent, but even on a high Flow Caps build, has never did enough shield damage on the proc to make it useful.

    Standard Phaser Proc - I already mentioned about how far Phaser Proc had fallen from being the Best in the Game when STO launched to being worthless. This was nerfed with Science.

    Standard Polaron Proc - Only useful on a very high Flow Caps Drain Build to supplement other SCI Drain Attacks.

    There are numerous other Procs out there that their damage effects just don't scale with the game.

    There are also Procs that help counter themselves, like Thoron-Infused! :D
    XzRTofz.gif
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    Give ships an inate 2.5% bonus to specific weapon types (and their specialised variants).
    All Fed ships - phaser proc bonus
    All KDF ships - Disruptor
    All Rom ships - Plasma and disruptor
    Breen, Dominion, Vaad, Kaboli etc. - Polaron
    An so on.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    I think weapon energy type and their procs are overrated. At the very top end of DPS, the actual weapon type only makes a miniscule difference in overall performance. In fact you will see 100k+ builds of varying beam energy types. In terms of damage, only those wishing to be at the absolute top of the DPS charts would get a (very) slight advantage on using AP.

    If there was a proc that needed a change, I think it would be Tetryon because its proc becomes useless once shields are down. Phasers would come in second due to the lockouts.
  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    A few things i think that should be done with the procs of weapons at least base-line.
    • Phaser: For this type i would say it is fine that it stays as is, but maybe give it a chance to add a debuff that reduces the effectiveness of abilities that are affected by the sub-system that is knocked offline/affected by this weapon's proc.
    • Tetryon: I would not mind if they made it that standard tetryon has a chance to negate the shield regeneration rate of a target for a peroid of time, alongside it dealing additional damage to shields as it does now. Though it could be done that it has a chance to leave a de-buff that increases the damage done to a target's shield as well, which would be a good alternative.
    • Polaron: This one kinda like with phasers i think would be improved if subsystems had more effect on your ship's effectiveness, like that your shield power level effected the reduction to torpedo damage.
    • Plasma:This one is pretty good overall, so not really needing much change. Though maybe make something like part-gen or weapon power causes the plasma dot to tick more frequently.
    • Disruptor: This is similar I think it works fine, with maybe just needing some way of buffing the effect abit.
    • Anti-proton: For this one I think it should have the critical severity buff that it has natively shifted over to a stacking procced buff with the standard proccing chance of 2.5%, and with the buff capping out at 25-30 percent compared to the 20 percent that it would have otherwise.
    • Proton: I like the idea of making proton a standard weapon energy type you can get, with it having a stacking shield penetration buff with the standard 2.5 percent chance to procc, though not sure how much of a shield penetration amount it should gain per procc of the buff.

  • lowy1lowy1 Member Posts: 964 Arc User
    lowy1 wrote: »
    Tie the procs to power levels or stats like Polaron drain being affected by flow caps:

    Something like this for each base weapon type:
    Polaron - flow caps [seems right]
    Plasma - prtg [maybe]
    Disruptor - subspace decompiler [hell no]
    Phaser - auxiliary power [hell no, should be either flow caps, or better yet subspace decomp]
    Tetryon - graviton gens [change this to either flow caps, or partcile gens]
    Ap would use nothing

    Made some changes!

    Yea that maybe better. I was just listing examples because some stats are never used and this way it would incorporate them all.
    HzLLhLB.gif

  • fovrelfovrel Member Posts: 1,448 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    Tetryon works fine imo. It has no use against a shieldless opponent, but when there is a shield you can sooner begin to eat the hull because of the proc. Combine it with kinetic damage, I would say.

    The 2.5 proc rate is also fine. You have it at level 1 with your starting gear and you still have it at level 60 with MK XIV. It is supposed to be a constant.
  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    It might be fine in a single player type situation, but outside that an even in some single player one, it is actually quite gimped. Since in the end you have weapons that can deplete the hull of a target prior to dropping their shields thru shield by-passing effects, as well as some that can drop shields even quicker than tetryon can. Tetryon could use a buff to either the shield damage/stripping amount it has on the procc, or a secondary effect that make the shields that it hits more vulnerable to shield damage like a de-buff increasing the damage the target's shields take.

    If it was asked for a buff to the procc chance of these effects at only max level making it that prior to 60 you have a 2.5% chance to proc yet than at level 60 it is raised to 5% for example, than i would agree it would be bad to make that chance unless the boost is a mod (we do have the chance mod that boosts the chance to procc effects). Though what is being asked is actually boosting the base-line chance to procc the energy type effect from 2.5% top 5% roughly, which might be a good idea overall to make them more valuable overall.

    My biggest issue though is that anti-proton is given a constant buff over a proccing buff like the other energy type, which made sense when it was released as it was rarer, but now it makes less sense with how much more common they are. Alongside it just makes it more attractive having a constant 10% critical severity (20% if you have anti-proton dual heavy cannons) compared to the other energy types having a unreliable proccing ability, even if some might be more useful in places than others, as such I think that anti-proton should in the least place be brought in line having it's critical severity buff shifted into procced buff like the other energy types. I would even say make it a stacking buff that slowly raises in power as you procc it off attacks, such as it proccs at 2.5-5% chance on hit for a 1-2% critical severity buff stacking up to 50% cap.
Sign In or Register to comment.