I suppose the Entertainment industry wants you to shut off your brain and just absorb what they pump out without thinking about it which is why the "entertainment isn't art" lie got started. Or it might be nonsense dogma from the postmodernists trying to pretend their "art" (e.g. Pollock, Rothko, Bukowski, Steve Reich and their ilk) is actually really smart and deep instead of the mindless trash it appears to be.
Ah so you're not only conspiracy theorist, you're also a hater. Gotcha.
Pre JJ we had Star Trek movies. Post JJ we have action films with a Trek flavor. You have to think of it that way. The reboot films are not trying to be Star Trek movies. In that respect I don't mind them.
I'm going to watch it. You can't all moan about trailers giving away plot, then moan when they don't give it away.
Also, it's not a reboot, it's an alternate universe, and the last two films have been leaps and bounds above Insurrection, Generations, or the Final Fronter.
Try judging it on its content not by crying about it from one trailer.
I beg to differ. The last two films were eye candy with no content. Insurrection, Generations and Final Frontier were about family. They were far better than Star Trek and Star Trek Into Darkness. I might watch it on dvd but I will not see it in theaters. How many times will they destroy the Enterprise?
Nope. The last two films were about family. Kirk getting his, Nero loosing his, Harrison's being taken from him. FF was about Kirk, Spock, and mainly Kirk. Generations was about Kirk and Picard meting with the only link to family being Picard's was burnt. Insurrection was about, umm, magic space dust or something.
You can't all moan about ENT and VOY never putting the ship in danger and then moan about the AR films for doing so. Space is either dangerous to spaceships or it isn't. I think the latter is more likely.
Try judging it on its content not by crying about it from one trailer.
I judge it by not liking the first two.
Did you judge TWOK by TMP? or TUC by FF?
Those were great movies. Perhaps not the best of the lot but several notches higher than the new boring timeline.
No they weren't. The amount of logical fallacies needed to enjoy FF or Insurrection physically hurts. Most problems with the AR films can be summed up as blowing nitpicks out of all proportion because your sets are no longer made of cardboard.
Pre JJ we had Star Trek movies. Post JJ we have action films with a Trek flavor. You have to think of it that way. The reboot films are not trying to be Star Trek movies. In that respect I don't mind them.
Yes, yes they are. They are Star Trek films. Yes, the are supposed to be.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Ah so you're not only conspiracy theorist, you're also a hater. Gotcha. Enjoy the thread for yourself.
"Put simply, this is the idea that as a society, we are kept in a state of arrested development by dominant forces in order to keep us more pliant"
I didn't word it as strongly as Simon Pegg did when he talked about the dumbing down and childishness of contemporary culture.
When it comes to mass media, yes, I believe it is manipulated to control on various levels - but I think it mostly suffers from a lack of control from people who intend good for the culture. I don't think there's some sort of vast conspiracy as drastic as North Korea has to manipulate the media, but I don't believe there's no attention at all that goes into it. Frankly you'd have to be a real idiot to believe the mass media, 95% of which is controlled by no more than 5 companies (literally), is a completely organic institution that is not recognized and utilized as the primary apparatus of culture shaping. The culture intended with this massive apparatus appears to be a lack thereof.
Of course, I've misrepresented Pegg's quote. He was talking about so-called "geek culture" which I guess would mean Star Trek, Joss Whedon, X-Men, Lord of the Rings and some others. Some of so-called "geek culture" is quite childish and rightly regarded as such. However, he is mistaken to believe that Star Trek was more childish than the vast majority of TV in the 60's or the vast majority of media today - having apparently mistaken the unrealistic veneer of fantasy for the content of a drama. NCIS is vastly more childish than TOS, TNG, and DS9 - it is a world where all conclusions are foregone ones and black and white are always clear as day - nothing is ever questioned, no real dilemmas explored, the fright of a less than euphoric ending is never denied the viewer (Is Gibbs going to have to force the McGee-Dinozzo transporter accident to "die" to recover the individual McGee and Dinozzo? Is he clearly going to be right in doing this? No, when I watch NCIS I know I'm going to be told exactly what I should think and I'm going to agree because there's really no way to not agree because it's not written in such a way to allow disagreement. It is childish because it talks down to me with firm directness, moral clarity, and certainty that a more mature procedural show like Law and Order never condescended to and NCIS never gives me a moment or reason to think about anything).
"Now we’re essentially all consuming very childish things – comic books, superheroes."
This is what Simon Pegg believes - that because a story features something not found in reality then it must be childish. He, like the rest of the contemporary Star Trek production crew, sees nothing beyond the superficial veneer of a story.
What a dingbat. Does he think the Odyssey is childish? What of Hamlet's ghost? Is Macbeth a childish story because the witches tell prophecies?
I think what Pegg is noting is that Hollywood is full of spoiled idiot children.
Post edited by penemue#7777 on
"At the end of the movie, I really care about what happens to the characters … but I’m pretty much missing Gene Roddenberry in J.J.’s interpretation … and at the end of the day, that’s just not OK for me." - Levar Burton
"[OrciTrek] doesn’t have the story heart that the best of my Star Trek had," - William Shatner
"It doesn’t have that element that made … Gene Roddenberry‘s ‘Star Trek,’ what it was." - George Takei
"The Gene Roddenberry years, when stories might play with questions of science, ideals or philosophy, have been replaced by stories reduced to loud and colorful action." - Roger Ebert
I don't really know anything about the specifics of the movie from the trailer. If I can avoid spoilers, I am glad. Star Trek is interesting to me that I'll watch it anyway. It seems very unlikely I wouldn't see the movie.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
One thing I learned over on the old A2Files forums: Do not present JJ Haters with facts. It only confuses them. How sad they are so determined theirs is the only "true" vision and all the rest of us are heretical blasphemers who merely "desecrate this sacred space."
Star Trek is a big enough tent there is room for more than one group or type of fan. However, the JJ Haters want to remove us all or convert us with the sword. Like a lot of radical groups.
"Blessed are the ones with minds too small to doubt." How very sad they cannot wrap their minds around Star Trek adapting and growing to change with the times or die. Pity them.
Because they are willfully and deliberately blind to the true message of Star Trek: Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.
There are a great many things about TNG, DS9. and VOY I really dislike which others enjoy. However, unlike the JJ Haters, I can pass by an opportunity to disrespect them and by extension the fans who like them without throwing a childish hissy fit in public at the mere mention of the names.
The JJ Haters? Maybe they'll wander off to hate Star Wars and Disney now. Lord knows I am tired of them.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
the true message of Star Trek: Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.
You hit the nail on the head. I don't think it was the point you were trying to make, but you made it. The whole concept of IDIC was made for commercialism - to make a buck. Roddenberry wanted more revenue from merchandising so he invented the IDIC medal to sell, plain and simple.
Paramount has clearly embraced this with the reboot movies. If car chases, motorcycles, and 20th century music will get people in the seats for a "Star Trek" movie, they are fine with that.
(...)
Paramount has clearly embraced this with the reboot movies. If car chases, motorcycles, and 20th century music will get people in the seats for a "Star Trek" movie, they are fine with that.
I just want to point out that the 20th century music doesn't bother me at all (the "Nokia" product placement in the 09 movie does ). I always found it unbelievable that nobody in Star Trek listened to anything else but classical terran music or klingon opera.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
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And our friendly cultural imperialists aboard the Ent-D tried to tell him that he was wrong to enjoy it. You listen to ancient classical music from at least 600 years ago, or at the most modern maybe some 400-year-old Dixieland, or you don't listen to nuthin'!
And our friendly cultural imperialists aboard the Ent-D tried to tell him that he was wrong to enjoy it. You listen to ancient classical music from at least 600 years ago, or at the most modern maybe some 400-year-old Dixieland, or you don't listen to nuthin'!
Yeah, that's something that was really weird about that episode. It was like Picard was trying to dictate to him what he was allowed to like...
(...)
Paramount has clearly embraced this with the reboot movies. If car chases, motorcycles, and 20th century music will get people in the seats for a "Star Trek" movie, they are fine with that.
I just want to point out that the 20th century music doesn't bother me at all (the "Nokia" product placement in the 09 movie does ). I always found it unbelievable that nobody in Star Trek listened to anything else but classical terran music or klingon opera.
The JJ Haters? Maybe they'll wander off to hate Star Wars and Disney now. Lord knows I am tired of them.
I already hated Star Wars. :-)
I'm somewhat confused how you people who like Star Trek and also like Star Wars survived all the endless, painful, dialogue between action sequences in the Star Trek series. I mean, Trekkies dare to vote "Chain of Command Pt 2" as one of the best Star Trek episodes of all time and there's basically zero action at all in it unless you consider watching Picard get tortured by a Cardassian to be "fun and exciting sci-fi action-adventure."
"At the end of the movie, I really care about what happens to the characters … but I’m pretty much missing Gene Roddenberry in J.J.’s interpretation … and at the end of the day, that’s just not OK for me." - Levar Burton
"[OrciTrek] doesn’t have the story heart that the best of my Star Trek had," - William Shatner
"It doesn’t have that element that made … Gene Roddenberry‘s ‘Star Trek,’ what it was." - George Takei
"The Gene Roddenberry years, when stories might play with questions of science, ideals or philosophy, have been replaced by stories reduced to loud and colorful action." - Roger Ebert
Yeah, that's something that was really weird about that episode. It was like Picard was trying to dictate to him what he was allowed to like...
and yeah... Talarians... oops.
Picard is hardly a cultural relativist despite his, perhaps, overzealous adherence to the prime directive in some instances (the Prime Directive meant to be a protectionist foreign policy, not an announcement that they consider all cultures equal to all other cultures). The idea that Picard would regard objectively bad rock music as being on par with classical is absurd.
"At the end of the movie, I really care about what happens to the characters … but I’m pretty much missing Gene Roddenberry in J.J.’s interpretation … and at the end of the day, that’s just not OK for me." - Levar Burton
"[OrciTrek] doesn’t have the story heart that the best of my Star Trek had," - William Shatner
"It doesn’t have that element that made … Gene Roddenberry‘s ‘Star Trek,’ what it was." - George Takei
"The Gene Roddenberry years, when stories might play with questions of science, ideals or philosophy, have been replaced by stories reduced to loud and colorful action." - Roger Ebert
You cannot seriously be suggesting it is not possible (or Morally Right) to have diverse tastes (that are not in conformance with your *personal* tastes), can you?
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
You cannot seriously be suggesting it is not possible (or Morally Right) to have diverse tastes (that are not in conformance with your *personal* tastes), can you?
When did I say that? Some people have a taste for dirt.
"At the end of the movie, I really care about what happens to the characters … but I’m pretty much missing Gene Roddenberry in J.J.’s interpretation … and at the end of the day, that’s just not OK for me." - Levar Burton
"[OrciTrek] doesn’t have the story heart that the best of my Star Trek had," - William Shatner
"It doesn’t have that element that made … Gene Roddenberry‘s ‘Star Trek,’ what it was." - George Takei
"The Gene Roddenberry years, when stories might play with questions of science, ideals or philosophy, have been replaced by stories reduced to loud and colorful action." - Roger Ebert
You cannot seriously be suggesting it is not possible (or Morally Right) to have diverse tastes (that are not in conformance with your *personal* tastes), can you?
When did I say that? Some people have a taste for dirt.
As they say, one person's trash is another person's treasure. The JJ movies are trash to you, and that's fine. On the other hand, YOUR favorite movie is trash to someone else, and that is also fine. Neither of you are wrong about a completely subjective entertainment experience. Mature people understand the subjectivity of taste, while fools insist only their view is right. The good news is, you have free will, so you get to decide what kind stance you will take.
You cannot seriously be suggesting it is not possible (or Morally Right) to have diverse tastes (that are not in conformance with your *personal* tastes), can you?
When did I say that? Some people have a taste for dirt.
As they say, one person's trash is another person's treasure. The JJ movies are trash to you, and that's fine. On the other hand, YOUR favorite movie is trash to someone else, and that is also fine. Neither of you are wrong about a completely subjective entertainment experience. Mature people understand the subjectivity of taste, while fools insist only their view is right. The good news is, you have free will, so you get to decide what kind stance you will take.
^ This. These things are all subjective, different people like different things, and just because you dislike something doesn't mean it's objectively bad. Just accept that some people have different opinions than you, and move on.
You cannot seriously be suggesting it is not possible (or Morally Right) to have diverse tastes (that are not in conformance with your *personal* tastes), can you?
When did I say that? Some people have a taste for dirt.
As they say, one person's trash is another person's treasure.
Indeed. Dang it, now after looking this up I'm hungry.
The JJ movies are trash to you, and that's fine. On the other hand, YOUR favorite movie is trash to someone else, and that is also fine. Neither of you are wrong about a completely subjective entertainment experience. Mature people understand the subjectivity of taste, while fools insist only their view is right. The good news is, you have free will, so you get to decide what kind stance you will take.
Exactly. The mature person will say, "I don't care for [this aspect of something]," but can RESPECT others who hold a different opinion and not act like they are wrong or stupid. They will try to avoid this problem (watch carefully!!!):
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
(...)
Paramount has clearly embraced this with the reboot movies. If car chases, motorcycles, and 20th century music will get people in the seats for a "Star Trek" movie, they are fine with that.
I just want to point out that the 20th century music doesn't bother me at all (the "Nokia" product placement in the 09 movie does ). I always found it unbelievable that nobody in Star Trek listened to anything else but classical terran music or klingon opera.
Agreed on the music deal. But I will say that the product placement doesn't bother me. That is just typical Hollyweird and marketing.
The JJ Haters? Maybe they'll wander off to hate Star Wars and Disney now. Lord knows I am tired of them.
I already hated Star Wars. :-)
I'm somewhat confused how you people who like Star Trek and also like Star Wars survived all the endless, painful, dialogue between action sequences in the Star Trek series. I mean, Trekkies dare to vote "Chain of Command Pt 2" as one of the best Star Trek episodes of all time and there's basically zero action at all in it unless you consider watching Picard get tortured by a Cardassian to be "fun and exciting sci-fi action-adventure."
Oh, I see, you're replying to all those people who are saying the AR films are the greatest piece of Trek ever made right?
Are you going to point those people out because all I see are people trying to defend the films from insanity.
For me the AR films don't hold a candle to DS9. But funnily enough, the contents of two films vs. 7 series aren't equal, who'da thought?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Neither of you are wrong about a completely subjective entertainment experience. Mature people understand the subjectivity of taste, while fools insist only their view is right.
"At the end of the movie, I really care about what happens to the characters … but I’m pretty much missing Gene Roddenberry in J.J.’s interpretation … and at the end of the day, that’s just not OK for me." - Levar Burton
"[OrciTrek] doesn’t have the story heart that the best of my Star Trek had," - William Shatner
"It doesn’t have that element that made … Gene Roddenberry‘s ‘Star Trek,’ what it was." - George Takei
"The Gene Roddenberry years, when stories might play with questions of science, ideals or philosophy, have been replaced by stories reduced to loud and colorful action." - Roger Ebert
Samuel Johnson's sole real contribution to the world was the development of the first dictionary. This hardly makes him an expert at, well, much of anything, particularly since his "education" was in an era when one would still appeal to the ancients for all wisdom (hence, for example, the belief prevalent in his time that blood moved about the body by "sloshing", its motion generated by the motion of the body, because Pliny the Elder said so).
Even if this is correct (and IMO, it isn't), we obviously haven't reached that point yet, since if there are objectively bad and good things, we would all agree about them.
Unless you're trying to say you're more educated than us? IDK.
This hardly makes him an expert at, well, much of anything, particularly since his "education" was in an era when one would still appeal to the ancients for all wisdom (hence, for example, the belief prevalent in his time that blood moved about the body by "sloshing", its motion generated by the motion of the body, because Pliny the Elder said so).
Well I guess we can throw out Newton then since he was a predecessor to Johnson. Aristotle had some pretty kooky ideas about the composition of the heavens but I don't think you are capable of overturning his assertions regarding deductive logic.
I'm not really sure what "sloshing" theory you're talking about? Venous return is a motion greatly generated by the movement of the body itself so blood does actually move through the body via body movement. They may or may not have been uncertain about the nature of capillary beds at the time as any anatomist would have trouble determining what happens to blood as arteries simply apparently "end" without high quality microscopes to view capillaries.
I honestly don't know where you get the idea that 18th century English nobility was full of doofuses. However, if you regard the sum total of education to be scientific knowledge, then I suppose you're justified in saying that. Regardless, I still lack the architectural knowledge to construct the Tower of London so I guess there's still some things I don't know that people who lived before me did know.
Regardless - the foundation of civilization doesn't rest on scientific knowledge alone.
"At the end of the movie, I really care about what happens to the characters … but I’m pretty much missing Gene Roddenberry in J.J.’s interpretation … and at the end of the day, that’s just not OK for me." - Levar Burton
"[OrciTrek] doesn’t have the story heart that the best of my Star Trek had," - William Shatner
"It doesn’t have that element that made … Gene Roddenberry‘s ‘Star Trek,’ what it was." - George Takei
"The Gene Roddenberry years, when stories might play with questions of science, ideals or philosophy, have been replaced by stories reduced to loud and colorful action." - Roger Ebert
And you disagree that this is objectively true, then I assume there's something wrong with you. You are in fact following a dogma that declares two things equal which are empirically not.
"At the end of the movie, I really care about what happens to the characters … but I’m pretty much missing Gene Roddenberry in J.J.’s interpretation … and at the end of the day, that’s just not OK for me." - Levar Burton
"[OrciTrek] doesn’t have the story heart that the best of my Star Trek had," - William Shatner
"It doesn’t have that element that made … Gene Roddenberry‘s ‘Star Trek,’ what it was." - George Takei
"The Gene Roddenberry years, when stories might play with questions of science, ideals or philosophy, have been replaced by stories reduced to loud and colorful action." - Roger Ebert
If you are going to conflate your artistic *opinions* with hard facts, then science is the only ground on which you can offer a defense seeing as science offers measurable standards and experimental procedures that others can actually check you on and verify by repeating the experiment and ensuring proper control of variables. If you cannot mount a defense on such grounds then you need to acknowledge that what you have is an opinion and you need to treat others' opinions with respect since the only thing you can "support" it with is more opinion. Which has its place, but ONLY with respect towards others--i.e. No explicit OR implicit put-downs towards those who see it differently.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Comments
Ah so you're not only conspiracy theorist, you're also a hater. Gotcha.
Enjoy the thread for yourself.
Nope. The last two films were about family. Kirk getting his, Nero loosing his, Harrison's being taken from him. FF was about Kirk, Spock, and mainly Kirk. Generations was about Kirk and Picard meting with the only link to family being Picard's was burnt. Insurrection was about, umm, magic space dust or something.
You can't all moan about ENT and VOY never putting the ship in danger and then moan about the AR films for doing so. Space is either dangerous to spaceships or it isn't. I think the latter is more likely.
No they weren't. The amount of logical fallacies needed to enjoy FF or Insurrection physically hurts. Most problems with the AR films can be summed up as blowing nitpicks out of all proportion because your sets are no longer made of cardboard.
Yes, yes they are. They are Star Trek films. Yes, the are supposed to be.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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"Put simply, this is the idea that as a society, we are kept in a state of arrested development by dominant forces in order to keep us more pliant"
I didn't word it as strongly as Simon Pegg did when he talked about the dumbing down and childishness of contemporary culture.
When it comes to mass media, yes, I believe it is manipulated to control on various levels - but I think it mostly suffers from a lack of control from people who intend good for the culture. I don't think there's some sort of vast conspiracy as drastic as North Korea has to manipulate the media, but I don't believe there's no attention at all that goes into it. Frankly you'd have to be a real idiot to believe the mass media, 95% of which is controlled by no more than 5 companies (literally), is a completely organic institution that is not recognized and utilized as the primary apparatus of culture shaping. The culture intended with this massive apparatus appears to be a lack thereof.
Of course, I've misrepresented Pegg's quote. He was talking about so-called "geek culture" which I guess would mean Star Trek, Joss Whedon, X-Men, Lord of the Rings and some others. Some of so-called "geek culture" is quite childish and rightly regarded as such. However, he is mistaken to believe that Star Trek was more childish than the vast majority of TV in the 60's or the vast majority of media today - having apparently mistaken the unrealistic veneer of fantasy for the content of a drama. NCIS is vastly more childish than TOS, TNG, and DS9 - it is a world where all conclusions are foregone ones and black and white are always clear as day - nothing is ever questioned, no real dilemmas explored, the fright of a less than euphoric ending is never denied the viewer (Is Gibbs going to have to force the McGee-Dinozzo transporter accident to "die" to recover the individual McGee and Dinozzo? Is he clearly going to be right in doing this? No, when I watch NCIS I know I'm going to be told exactly what I should think and I'm going to agree because there's really no way to not agree because it's not written in such a way to allow disagreement. It is childish because it talks down to me with firm directness, moral clarity, and certainty that a more mature procedural show like Law and Order never condescended to and NCIS never gives me a moment or reason to think about anything).
"Now we’re essentially all consuming very childish things – comic books, superheroes."
This is what Simon Pegg believes - that because a story features something not found in reality then it must be childish. He, like the rest of the contemporary Star Trek production crew, sees nothing beyond the superficial veneer of a story.
What a dingbat. Does he think the Odyssey is childish? What of Hamlet's ghost? Is Macbeth a childish story because the witches tell prophecies?
I think what Pegg is noting is that Hollywood is full of spoiled idiot children.
"At the end of the movie, I really care about what happens to the characters … but I’m pretty much missing Gene Roddenberry in J.J.’s interpretation … and at the end of the day, that’s just not OK for me." - Levar Burton
"[OrciTrek] doesn’t have the story heart that the best of my Star Trek had," - William Shatner
"It doesn’t have that element that made … Gene Roddenberry‘s ‘Star Trek,’ what it was." - George Takei
"The Gene Roddenberry years, when stories might play with questions of science, ideals or philosophy, have been replaced by stories reduced to loud and colorful action." - Roger Ebert
Star Trek is a big enough tent there is room for more than one group or type of fan. However, the JJ Haters want to remove us all or convert us with the sword. Like a lot of radical groups.
"Blessed are the ones with minds too small to doubt." How very sad they cannot wrap their minds around Star Trek adapting and growing to change with the times or die. Pity them.
Because they are willfully and deliberately blind to the true message of Star Trek: Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.
There are a great many things about TNG, DS9. and VOY I really dislike which others enjoy. However, unlike the JJ Haters, I can pass by an opportunity to disrespect them and by extension the fans who like them without throwing a childish hissy fit in public at the mere mention of the names.
The JJ Haters? Maybe they'll wander off to hate Star Wars and Disney now. Lord knows I am tired of them.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
Paramount has clearly embraced this with the reboot movies. If car chases, motorcycles, and 20th century music will get people in the seats for a "Star Trek" movie, they are fine with that.
I just want to point out that the 20th century music doesn't bother me at all (the "Nokia" product placement in the 09 movie does
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My character Tsin'xing
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and yeah... Talarians... oops.
My character Tsin'xing
It was better. In the original Klingon.
I already hated Star Wars. :-)
I'm somewhat confused how you people who like Star Trek and also like Star Wars survived all the endless, painful, dialogue between action sequences in the Star Trek series. I mean, Trekkies dare to vote "Chain of Command Pt 2" as one of the best Star Trek episodes of all time and there's basically zero action at all in it unless you consider watching Picard get tortured by a Cardassian to be "fun and exciting sci-fi action-adventure."
I mean dear lord... this is the only action sequence in the entirety of one of DS9's most praised episodes - how boring:
"At the end of the movie, I really care about what happens to the characters … but I’m pretty much missing Gene Roddenberry in J.J.’s interpretation … and at the end of the day, that’s just not OK for me." - Levar Burton
"[OrciTrek] doesn’t have the story heart that the best of my Star Trek had," - William Shatner
"It doesn’t have that element that made … Gene Roddenberry‘s ‘Star Trek,’ what it was." - George Takei
"The Gene Roddenberry years, when stories might play with questions of science, ideals or philosophy, have been replaced by stories reduced to loud and colorful action." - Roger Ebert
Picard is hardly a cultural relativist despite his, perhaps, overzealous adherence to the prime directive in some instances (the Prime Directive meant to be a protectionist foreign policy, not an announcement that they consider all cultures equal to all other cultures). The idea that Picard would regard objectively bad rock music as being on par with classical is absurd.
"At the end of the movie, I really care about what happens to the characters … but I’m pretty much missing Gene Roddenberry in J.J.’s interpretation … and at the end of the day, that’s just not OK for me." - Levar Burton
"[OrciTrek] doesn’t have the story heart that the best of my Star Trek had," - William Shatner
"It doesn’t have that element that made … Gene Roddenberry‘s ‘Star Trek,’ what it was." - George Takei
"The Gene Roddenberry years, when stories might play with questions of science, ideals or philosophy, have been replaced by stories reduced to loud and colorful action." - Roger Ebert
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When did I say that? Some people have a taste for dirt.
"At the end of the movie, I really care about what happens to the characters … but I’m pretty much missing Gene Roddenberry in J.J.’s interpretation … and at the end of the day, that’s just not OK for me." - Levar Burton
"[OrciTrek] doesn’t have the story heart that the best of my Star Trek had," - William Shatner
"It doesn’t have that element that made … Gene Roddenberry‘s ‘Star Trek,’ what it was." - George Takei
"The Gene Roddenberry years, when stories might play with questions of science, ideals or philosophy, have been replaced by stories reduced to loud and colorful action." - Roger Ebert
As they say, one person's trash is another person's treasure. The JJ movies are trash to you, and that's fine. On the other hand, YOUR favorite movie is trash to someone else, and that is also fine. Neither of you are wrong about a completely subjective entertainment experience. Mature people understand the subjectivity of taste, while fools insist only their view is right. The good news is, you have free will, so you get to decide what kind stance you will take.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
^ This. These things are all subjective, different people like different things, and just because you dislike something doesn't mean it's objectively bad. Just accept that some people have different opinions than you, and move on.
...That's just my opinion, though.
Indeed. Dang it, now after looking this up I'm hungry.
Exactly. The mature person will say, "I don't care for [this aspect of something]," but can RESPECT others who hold a different opinion and not act like they are wrong or stupid. They will try to avoid this problem (watch carefully!!!):
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Agreed on the music deal. But I will say that the product placement doesn't bother me. That is just typical Hollyweird and marketing.
Oh, I see, you're replying to all those people who are saying the AR films are the greatest piece of Trek ever made right?
Are you going to point those people out because all I see are people trying to defend the films from insanity.
For me the AR films don't hold a candle to DS9. But funnily enough, the contents of two films vs. 7 series aren't equal, who'da thought?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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"At the end of the movie, I really care about what happens to the characters … but I’m pretty much missing Gene Roddenberry in J.J.’s interpretation … and at the end of the day, that’s just not OK for me." - Levar Burton
"[OrciTrek] doesn’t have the story heart that the best of my Star Trek had," - William Shatner
"It doesn’t have that element that made … Gene Roddenberry‘s ‘Star Trek,’ what it was." - George Takei
"The Gene Roddenberry years, when stories might play with questions of science, ideals or philosophy, have been replaced by stories reduced to loud and colorful action." - Roger Ebert
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Even if this is correct (and IMO, it isn't), we obviously haven't reached that point yet, since if there are objectively bad and good things, we would all agree about them.
Unless you're trying to say you're more educated than us? IDK.
Well I guess we can throw out Newton then since he was a predecessor to Johnson. Aristotle had some pretty kooky ideas about the composition of the heavens but I don't think you are capable of overturning his assertions regarding deductive logic.
I'm not really sure what "sloshing" theory you're talking about? Venous return is a motion greatly generated by the movement of the body itself so blood does actually move through the body via body movement. They may or may not have been uncertain about the nature of capillary beds at the time as any anatomist would have trouble determining what happens to blood as arteries simply apparently "end" without high quality microscopes to view capillaries.
I honestly don't know where you get the idea that 18th century English nobility was full of doofuses. However, if you regard the sum total of education to be scientific knowledge, then I suppose you're justified in saying that. Regardless, I still lack the architectural knowledge to construct the Tower of London so I guess there's still some things I don't know that people who lived before me did know.
Regardless - the foundation of civilization doesn't rest on scientific knowledge alone.
"At the end of the movie, I really care about what happens to the characters … but I’m pretty much missing Gene Roddenberry in J.J.’s interpretation … and at the end of the day, that’s just not OK for me." - Levar Burton
"[OrciTrek] doesn’t have the story heart that the best of my Star Trek had," - William Shatner
"It doesn’t have that element that made … Gene Roddenberry‘s ‘Star Trek,’ what it was." - George Takei
"The Gene Roddenberry years, when stories might play with questions of science, ideals or philosophy, have been replaced by stories reduced to loud and colorful action." - Roger Ebert
That's a ridiculous statement... compare it to the following:
"If there are objectively true and false things, we would all agree about them."
If I show you a picture of Dali's painting:
And tell you it's better than Rothko's:
And you disagree that this is objectively true, then I assume there's something wrong with you. You are in fact following a dogma that declares two things equal which are empirically not.
"At the end of the movie, I really care about what happens to the characters … but I’m pretty much missing Gene Roddenberry in J.J.’s interpretation … and at the end of the day, that’s just not OK for me." - Levar Burton
"[OrciTrek] doesn’t have the story heart that the best of my Star Trek had," - William Shatner
"It doesn’t have that element that made … Gene Roddenberry‘s ‘Star Trek,’ what it was." - George Takei
"The Gene Roddenberry years, when stories might play with questions of science, ideals or philosophy, have been replaced by stories reduced to loud and colorful action." - Roger Ebert
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.