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Aceton Assimilator - still worth a console slot?

For years, I made the Aceton Assimilator console a standard part of all my KDF builds, as did many of us.

But with all the changes, especially in the last year, I have decided to go back and take another look at everything.

So, is the Aceton Assimilator still worth it? The basic power drain was never that big a deal, the good part was idiot NPCs shooting at it, and damaging themselves heavily. Especially on a Part Gens/Exotic build, it could be quite effective. But many NPCs now have far more HP than was once the case, and fights versus NPCs are often far more brief than was once the case.

So, is it still worth a slot?

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Comments

  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    Normally I'd say it isn't, on drain or exotic damage builds it can be useful but is so situational when things die so fast now. You have to get close to drop one too...
  • horridpersonhorridperson Member Posts: 665 Arc User
    I think it's situational. A T6 BoP is still a BoP and quite fragile. It's nice to have someone to take the heat off and kindly get the enemy to expose their flanks. I found it helpful during the mirror event so I could close a rift without interruption and during Borg DC to free drones while not on fire with my HE on cd. If you on a run with your fleet or part of a team that knows you the console slot might be better filled with something else. In a pug where everyone is going their own way it is useful.
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  • chastity1337chastity1337 Member Posts: 1,608 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    I'd go with the situationally useful...but overall...yeah it hasn't been worth it for a long while now.

    coldnapalm, I'm not arguing with you, but could you please tell us a little bit about why you feel that way? I'm inclined to agree, but I'm curious if your reasons are the same as mine.
  • chastity1337chastity1337 Member Posts: 1,608 Arc User
    One other interesting point about Aceton Assimilator - I had always thought of it as KDF-only, but there's a pack Feds can get on the exchange for about 1 to 1.5 million that includes one (or optionally a Sabotage Probe).
  • swamarianswamarian Member Posts: 1,506 Arc User
    It's like the leech. It's available for Feds if you get lucky in a lockbox.
  • chastity1337chastity1337 Member Posts: 1,608 Arc User
    swamarian wrote: »
    It's like the leech. It's available for Feds if you get lucky in a lockbox.

    Yeah, but the Leech goes for like 90M on Exchange; at 1 to 1.5 million, the AA is far cheaper to experiment with :)
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    The Aceton Assimilator in PVE use is a "Utility" item to me. The drain isn't appreciable (has it EVER been fixed?). The damage it does is only deadly in PVP with dumbasses that don't know any better (hilarious to watch though unless it was your Fed teammate doing it with you closeby). However, AA still:

    - Grabs aggro immediately on NPCs if it's the first thing in range. This buys time for stealthy ships (Enhanced Battle Cloak ships) and a huge amount of initial freedom. If getting pursued, dropping AA sometimes peels NPCs off of you.

    - The constant "aura" of AA insta-kills targetable projectiles. Hint, hint, Borg HYT Plasma Torps. Dropping it next to Cubes negates some of the Borgs' nastier attacks.

    - Enemy fighters swarm towards AA once it's in range.

    The item I will agree works best in PVP. It still is a mean tool because unbelievably, the general populace has never learned its lesson facing these things, even when dropped by NPC Nausicaan ships. Using an Enhanced Battle Cloak ship to sneak into a pack of FAWboats to drop AA is hilarious, especially when you throw Scramble Sensors into the mix.
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  • chastity1337chastity1337 Member Posts: 1,608 Arc User
    Using an Enhanced Battle Cloak ship to sneak into a pack of FAWboats to drop AA is hilarious, especially when you throw Scramble Sensors into the mix.

    I can see where that might be highly amusing. Seems there should be some Intel ability that would increase the fun.

  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    Using an Enhanced Battle Cloak ship to sneak into a pack of FAWboats to drop AA is hilarious, especially when you throw Scramble Sensors into the mix.

    I can see where that might be highly amusing. Seems there should be some Intel ability that would increase the fun.

    Ionic Turbulence to debuff nearby ships' resistance B)

    Enhanced Battle Cloak + Intel? Only one ship in the entire game that can do that.
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  • tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    AA works well in AA.

    What I mean is is, Aceton Assimilator is great on shuttles (like in Atmosphere assault). On large ship it's probably not that useful seeing how many better consoles we've got.
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  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    I've toyed with the idea of using this console but as with all special consoles it seemed a bit meh unless used in very specific situations.
    Figured it could go well on a sci ship using a combo of crowd control and drains, suck in enemies with grav well and drop this right in the middle together with ionic turbulence and a few other AOE abilities and weapons.


    Can anyone list anything that boosts it? Is it better to use on a drain boat than any other type of ship?
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  • chastity1337chastity1337 Member Posts: 1,608 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    Using an Enhanced Battle Cloak ship to sneak into a pack of FAWboats to drop AA is hilarious, especially when you throw Scramble Sensors into the mix.

    I can see where that might be highly amusing. Seems there should be some Intel ability that would increase the fun.

    Ionic Turbulence to debuff nearby ships' resistance B)

    Enhanced Battle Cloak + Intel? Only one ship in the entire game that can do that.

    Warmaker, what ship is that? And could you offer us a quick summary of the difference between Cloak, Battle Cloak, and Enhanced Battle Cloak?

    **edit**

    I did some research and it looks like maybe the Faeht Intel Warbird is the one unique ship with Enhanced Battle Cloak and Intel abilities.

    It appears that cloaks work like this-

    Cloak is just that, and you can't use while in a fight.
    Battle Cloak lets you cloak up anytime when not on CD, but tracking weapons like torps will still track you and beams and cannons that were already shooting at you will continue to do so.
    Enhanced Battle Cloak adds the ability to use mines and torpedoes while cloaked.

    BC seems to have two versions, one for KDF and a slightly better one for Rommies.

  • kayajaykayajay Member Posts: 1,990 Arc User
    When I first got into the game, I used to use nothing other than universal consoles in my slots...just for fun. Isometric Charge, Graviton Pulse Generator...but then you can get annihilated by someone with a building designed to annihilate you.
  • bones1970bones1970 Member Posts: 953 Arc User
    Its handy when playing borg assault, drop a Aceton Assimilator and you can scan !!
  • dareaudareau Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    I did some research and it looks like maybe the Faeht Intel Warbird is the one unique ship with Enhanced Battle Cloak and Intel abilities.

    It appears that cloaks work like this-

    Cloak is just that, and you can't use while in a fight.
    Battle Cloak lets you cloak up anytime when not on CD, but tracking weapons like torps will still track you and beams and cannons that were already shooting at you will continue to do so.
    Enhanced Battle Cloak adds the ability to use mines and torpedoes while cloaked.

    BC seems to have two versions, one for KDF and a slightly better one for Rommies.

    Enhanced Battle Cloak will also let you use many Science powers "while cloaked". I stuck my Rommie into a Fleet T'Varo (EBC-capable) just so I can spam torps, mines, and the ever-so-lovely Grav Well I... Change of pace from the "usual" beam-boat Science ship and/or carrier...
    Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...

    To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
  • makocallowaymakocalloway Member Posts: 455 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    So, does AA not get affected by your flowcap level?

    Also very informative about the difrence between battle cloak and enhanced battle cloak, I did not know that. What's the list of ships that have enhanced battle cloak?

    Edit: ok I answered one of my two questions:

    Enhanced Battle Cloak is a player-only ability available only to Klingon Empire and Romulan Republic players who use a B'rel Bird-of-Prey Retrofit, a T'varo Light Warbird Retrofit or a Faeht Intel Warbird.
    Post edited by makocalloway on
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    I've toyed with the idea of using this console but as with all special consoles it seemed a bit meh unless used in very specific situations.
    Figured it could go well on a sci ship using a combo of crowd control and drains, suck in enemies with grav well and drop this right in the middle together with ionic turbulence and a few other AOE abilities and weapons.


    Can anyone list anything that boosts it? Is it better to use on a drain boat than any other type of ship?
    IIRC it is affected by your flow caps, so...
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    I want to emphasize the point on why others question the use of this console, especially in PVE.

    The strength of Aceton Assimilators lies first and foremost on dishing back energy weapons damage in the form of a Radiation PBAOE blast for EVERY shot. NPCs don't do much. But players? With the high offensive capability players can achieve these days? AA is still very nasty in that regard since it returns that power straight back at an unknowing player. You can see this in action in PVE. When you do Federation Fleet Alerts and you end up fighting Nausicaan ships. They sometimes drop AAs and you'll see a player fly up to it and just unload on it. Then I watch in amusement as their own hull drops and wonder how long, if ever, the player realizes they should stop. Or use kinetic damage.

    I mentioned already why I like the console still and I quite understand why others won't slot it for PVE.
    So, does AA not get affected by your flowcap level?

    Also very informative about the difrence between battle cloak and enhanced battle cloak, I did not know that. What's the list of ships that have enhanced battle cloak?

    Edit: ok I answered one of my two questions:

    Enhanced Battle Cloak is a player-only ability available only to Klingon Empire and Romulan Republic players who use a B'rel Bird-of-Prey Retrofit, a T'varo Light Warbird Retrofit or a Faeht Intel Warbird.

    Flow Caps is supposed to boost the drain but last I faced them, it was very minimal in its effects. Also, Cryptic nerfed it where players can't have so many AA's out at a time. We (KDF) used to troll the Feds hardcore by having multiple AAs in their spawn points and the drains actually started to matter when a bunch are in close proximity. Because many didn't spec into Power Insulators.

    Correct, 3 ships in the entire game are Enhanced Battle Cloak capable. As for cloak differences:

    Standard Cloak - Recloak only during combat. Cannot use attacks, abilities that target others while cloak is up. This is the very basic version.

    Battle Cloak - Can recloak during combat if the CD is finished. Same limitations on abilities and attacks as with Standard Cloaks.

    Enhanced Battle Cloak - Can recloak like Battle Cloak. However, can use torpedo and mine attacks and use practically every ability while the cloak is up. When using such abilities and torpedo attacks, you temporarily show yourself (with your shields off, BTW) but the full cloak automatically goes back up when you do your last attack / ability. Mines however, do not even drop you temporarily out of cloaks.

    EBC use in PVP, PVE:

    There is one danger with using EBC and abilities on others during combat. As mentioned before, you show yourself temporarily and your shields are down. If someone can nail you during that time, they will get you good. That's for PVP. In PVE, if you are the only one facing a bunch of enemies and they're in range, they will attack you immediately. That is still bad. In PVE, I do not keep spamming attacks and abilities on others with EBC up unless I'm fighting with other friendly players nearby. This is very important in PVE.

    It takes some extra skill, practice to use EBC properly in both PVP and PVE. Being able to repair yourself with cloaks up, doing the "Cloak & Poke" and repeatedly make use of the decloak ambush damage bonus, especially for Romulan Republic players. During the process of you weaving in & out of combat, you can patch yourself up while your cloaks are up and get into the action sooner than a Battle Cloak vessel which can't repair itself with cloaks up. Once you got it down, you'll appreciate the huge benefits it has, most especially in PVP.

    Extra tip: When you do something that temporarily drops you out of cloaks with EBC up, Surgical Strikes will do a brief attack in that window >:) Of course, that's more of a PVP application. And that "one ship in the entire game" is the only one that can do that.
    Post edited by warmaker001b on
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  • chastity1337chastity1337 Member Posts: 1,608 Arc User
    edited December 2015

    I want to emphasize the point on why others question the use of this console, especially in PVE.

    The strength of Aceton Assimilators lies first and foremost on dishing back energy weapons damage in the form of a Radiation PBAOE blast for EVERY shot. NPCs don't do much. But players? With the high offensive capability players can achieve these days? AA is still very nasty in that regard since it returns that power straight back at an unknowing player.

    The part of this that really appeals to me is that you're exploiting the weakness of BFAW, namely the inability to choose your targets. Given the popularity of BFAW, something which actually offers a counter has great potential. If you could actually manage to get two AA's out there, and some poor fool hit them both with his BFAW, you'd probably still be laughing when he respawned.

    I can just see it. He hits OSS III, BFAW III, an attack pattern and god-only-knows what else, then taps the spacebar and pew-pew-pew BOOM!

    Post edited by chastity1337 on
  • makocallowaymakocalloway Member Posts: 455 Arc User
    Technically, we might want to consider saying there are actually 5 types of cloaks, counting the voth cloak and voth battle cloak. I'm counting those as diffrent based on this fact found in the sto wiki:

    "The Voth Cloak and Battle Cloak are the only cloaks in the game (at time of writing) that give a hull resistance buff when activated. Meaning you're less susceptible to damage when starting the cloak and shields go down."
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  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    I'd go with the situationally useful...but overall...yeah it hasn't been worth it for a long while now.

    coldnapalm, I'm not arguing with you, but could you please tell us a little bit about why you feel that way? I'm inclined to agree, but I'm curious if your reasons are the same as mine.

    Well...for one, there are better consoles out there. Generally speaking since all your tact consoles should have the spire fleet console and all your science the embassy fleet console

    coldnapalm, would you say this applies to a Science Ship? because on my Vesta I tend to pack science console slots wit
    I want to emphasize the point on why others question the use of this console, especially in PVE.

    The strength of Aceton Assimilators lies first and foremost on dishing back energy weapons damage in the form of a Radiation PBAOE blast for EVERY shot. NPCs don't do much. But players? With the high offensive capability players can achieve these days? AA is still very nasty in that regard since it returns that power straight back at an unknowing player.

    The part of this that really appeals to me is that you're exploiting the weakness of BFAW, namely the inability to choose your targets. Given the popularity of BFAW, something which actually offers a counter has great potential. If you could actually manage to get two AA's out there, and some poor fool hit them both with his BFAW, you'd probably still be laughing when he respawned.

    I can just see it. He hits OSS III, BFAW III, an attack pattern and god-only-knows what else, then taps the spacebar and pew-pew-pew BOOM!

    This is mainly a PVP application. Knowledgeable players know to control their fire with AA's around and those with kinetic capability can remove them. But it was surprising to see, even when there was more PVP going on before, just how many players never learned their lessons against AA.
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  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    The funniest AA I've ever seen was the time I accidentally dropped one, in the middle of nowhere, because I pressed the wrong button. Some random Fed decided to wander over to investigate this and then WHARRGARBL'ed it until he died from it. For absolutely no reason at all. Keep in mind this wasn't near anything of importance, nor was there anything else to attack. He went and attacked THAT, for no reason, shooting it until he died from it.

    That's the beauty of that console in PVP.

    Feds seriously HATED that Console and had many forum threads demanding it get nerfed (Nerf cloaks, nerf AA, nerf the BOP, etc). The counter to AA is so easy. Hell, even KDF players in the forum and even ingame told Feds how to counter them... DURING THE MATCH. And yet, Feds home in on AA's like you described. Some knew better. Many more never did.

    The best? The situation you just described except that player had friendly ships of his team nearby. I remember dropping an AA and some noob in a JHAS just absolutely U-N-L-O-A-D-E-D on it with his friends nearby. I slowly flew away in my B'Rel firing Scramble Sensors (DOFFed, BTW) and a Breen Cluster, laughing the entire way. They were screaming for him to stop :D
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,573 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    I seem to recall that the cooldown on the AA Console was pretty short. I was pretty shocked at how quickly I could drop another and have had multiple strewn across the battlefield.

    The other thing I noticed in Delta Patrols and I remember the Kazon portion of the 'Alliances' Delta Mission that until the AAs expired I couldn't get out of Red Alert and finish.

    Does anyone have any experience with the Aceton Field Generator from the Voth Palisade Science Vessel?
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
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  • waldotrekwaldotrek Member Posts: 320 Arc User
    AA used to be huge when NWS was still around. Since that PVE is no longer with us demand has gone down.
    Former Moderator 10-28-16
  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    I think the cooldown is only 45 seconds.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    Technically, we might want to consider saying there are actually 5 types of cloaks, counting the voth cloak and voth battle cloak. I'm counting those as diffrent based on this fact found in the sto wiki:

    "The Voth Cloak and Battle Cloak are the only cloaks in the game (at time of writing) that give a hull resistance buff when activated. Meaning you're less susceptible to damage when starting the cloak and shields go down."
    If you're going that route there are 7. Romulan Battle Cloak and Romulan EBC. They give a turn rate bonus when active.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
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