I'm sure everyone is familiar with this beauty:
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Guramba_Siege_Destroyer
With all the recent attention for the mirror universe i got thinking: what would the mirror version of the Guramba be like.
So,, why not make this a little thought experiment: What do you think would be the stats, consoles and boffs for a T5 or T5-U mirror Gurumba?
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
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T5 Mirror Guramba? My guess it would be the flip of it's current ENG & SCI alignment.
TAC Cmdr
TAC LtCmdr
ENG Lt
SCI Lt
SCI Ens
Consoles 2 ENG, 3 SCI, 4 TAC (5 at T5U)
On the "cold day in hell" chance of T6 Mirror ships, I would say that BOFF layout would go:
TAC Cmdr
TAC LtCmdr
ENG Lt
SCI LtCmdr/Hybrid
UNIV Ens
It would be an extremely fragile Escort and most players don't know how to survive with a Lt ENG station only. Hell, most players can't survive with even a Lt+Ens or LtCmdr ENG station. Just like the T5 Defiant. I had no problems staying alive with her BOFF layout but lots of others had major issues. A Mirror Guramba would be the same.
If one knew how to survive with that Lt ENG, it has a decent foundation supported by today's meta.
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
Instead of switching eng and sci, perhaps the LtCmdr slot can be switched to science.
Perhaps even a secondary deflector, making it a real science vessel?
They could use that setup to test the waters for a KDF science vessel.
I'd think it would have the trait. The Mirror Universe Guardian did, after all. Probably no fleet version though, unless our next fleet holding will be a Mirror Universe outpost.
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"Escort" is a generic, umbrella term for Cmdr TAC ships.
"Destroyer" is an old community term for the Escorts with at least a LtCmdr ENG station on it.
Cryptic's naming conventions to their own ships is completely irrelevant since they randomly put the names for ships, sometimes to sucker people into buying ships. An old favorite of mine is calling the T5 Galaxy-X a "Dreadnought" when the regular, dil Assault Cruiser from Lv40 was almost at its level in offensive capability and retained practically the same survivability.
Anyways, that's not what I'm going about from the post of mine you were referring to. One of the things I was going about was the simple, traditional "swaps" Cryptic does with Mirror Ship stats. They never change the Cmdr station around. But they will "mirror" the secondary, tertiary BOFF skill and console alignments around, especially when it came down to KDF ships.
Standard Negh'Var
Mirror Negh'Var
Standard Qin
Mirror Qin
Standard Vor'Cha
Mirror Vor'Cha
Easy to predict going by what they've done previously with previous KDF Mirror Ships. Mirror KDF ships were not simple skin swaps like several Fed Mirror Ships, for example the Prometheus, Mirror Prometheus. Predicting a Mirror Guramba is easy.
Edit: I want to clarify that the stats I gave out in my first reply are simply predictions on what Cryptic would actually do if they were up to it. Mirror Ships stats are very, very simple alterations and not some big revamp.
It's news to me since I didn't get the Mirror Guardian
Edit: A Mirror T6 ship. Oh my.
Yet here we are flying Species 8472 Bioships, Herald ships, etc.!
Yes but we are not the Mirror universe so by canon no mirror ships outside of Terran empire designs and jury is out on the tholians.
My character Tsin'xing
Dreadnoughts have been functionally different since Delta Rising, so that example does not fit into a mere superficial marketing ploy, or at least not entirely one.
Destroyers are not Escorts, period.
Edit: @borticuscryptic 's statement was made around the 4th anniversary on the old forums in regards to the question of the Dyson Science Destroyer's ability to use the Hirogen console that only Escorts, Raptors and Raiders can use, since "it's(the DSDs) an Escort", and Borticus gave that as a response.
Kinda hoping he'll come by and confirm so I don't have to dig 2-year-old threads up.
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Ahh, come on man, what Cryptic officially calls what is horseshit, and you know it
The officially named Dreadnoughts:
T5 & T6 Galaxy-X
T5 Voth Bulwark
T5 JHDC (TAC Cmdr; 2 Hangar Carrier)
T5 Scimitar Pack
T6 Sheshar
T6 Xindi Ateleh
T5 Xindi Narcine (TAC Cmdr; 2 Hangar Carrier)
T6 Annorax (Science Vessel; +1 weapon slot)
T6 Breen Rezreth
T6 Vonph (TAC Cmdr; 2 Hangar Carrier)
Now, you've been around this game long enough and know enough to have a general idea what these ships' general stats are. So what exactly makes them a "Dreadnought?"
- More weapon slots? Some of those compared to similar ships have more armament. But a lot more don't.
- Tougher ships? I don't think so. Their hulls aren't that so far above what the general stats are. They're not exactly resisting a lot more either because they're stat driven according to the build as other ships are.
- Superior armament? Only a few of the listed have gimmick attacks like the built-in Phaser Lance on the Galaxy-X. Yet some require sacrificing console slots (like Sheshar & Elachi Barrage).
I'll go one further. This is the old one that we used to bust Cryptic's balls about ever since the Galaxy-X came out. What do people think of when they see, read, hear the term, "Dreadnought?" They think along the lines of what a Battleship generally means. Super heavy armament, super tough protection. Power to dominate over other ships.
Yet those ships officially called "Dreadnought" are not necessarily tougher nor harder hitting. I'll gladly take a Fed Eclipse, Fed Avenger (T6 especially), KDF Qib, KDF Mogh (T6 especially) if we want to have very hard hitting, very tough ships. Back before T6 even existed, the Avenger, Mogh, Fleet Vor'Cha, Excelsior, C-Store+ Sovereign/Regent, Odyssey could keep up with hitting hard and staying alive quite well, yet were not named Dreadnought. There is no significant difference in BOFF & Console Layouts from Non-Dreadnoughts.
The TAC oriented Dreadnought Carriers do have +1 weapon slot over the Non-TAC oriented Carriers. The Annorax is a genre bending ship. But do they fulfill the imagery people have of what a "Dreadnought" really means?
The only one that truly busted the game and deserved the title "Dreadnought" was the Scimitar Pack.
Cryptic's naming conventions are jacked up. There are many things I go by with Cryptic's word on how things are supposed to be. But their naming conventions are not one of those.
Dreadnought carrier - an extra weapon slot and a tactical focus.
Dreadnought warbirds - can't be compared because warbirds are a totally different class and the Scimitar is unique among all ships.
Dreadnought cruiser - has a hangar bay and generally more tactical focus, also tends to be very slow and tough.
The last one is somewhat vague depending on the ship but that pretty much covers it.
Yes, Cryptic's naming conventions are indeed jacked up. But they ARE who gets to decide what their own ships(and their versions of "canon" ships) are called. And that's the point I'm trying to make.
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None of which makes a lick of difference in the original point raised that Escort is a blanket, if unofficial, term for those smaller faster Tac Cmdr ships, of which 'Destroyers', 'Raptors' and 'Tactical Warbirds' are all a part of, Raiders as well to a lesser extent.
Since Delta Rising its been easier to make distinctions on official naming, Just look at the mastery trait packages (ranks 1-4) and that tells you what sub-type of ship it is.
or: http://archivalclothing.com/tag/old-town-clothing/
My character Tsin'xing
Correction: They SAY they have conquered all of known universe.
Is it true or were they simply boasting.
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l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Oh and the mastery for the T5-u and T6 ships. That's not always consistent either,
My character Tsin'xing
Primary types are straightforward: Tactical ships, Engineering ships, and Science ships. These are defined by STO devs as either having a Commander bridge officer seat of the corresponding career or the amount of console slots of the corresponding career in which the number of the other two career console slots can not exceed. These parameters have direct and usually heavy influence on gameplay styles.
Secondary types are directly found in ship titles: Escort, Cruiser, Science Vessel, Destroyer, Carrier, Raider, Warbird, Raptor, Dreadnought, etc, with alterations or combinations on those types such as Flight-Deck Cruiser, Multi-Mission Science Vessel, Dreadnought Warbird etc. These classifications may or may not have much gameplay significance, but they are what they are.
Also, secondary types do not necessarily adhere to only one primary type. There are Warbirds that cover all three primary types(though Science much less so, unfortunately). Other ships that demonstrate this are the Obelisk Carrier, which is an Engineering ship, or the B'Rotlh Bird-of-Prey, which despite existing as a Tactical ship in Admiralty is a Science ship, as it has two Science console mod slots over one of each of the other two career's console modifications, and four bridge officer seats, one of which must be Science - the rest Universal.
But if one pays attention to these groupings in-game, less confusion will be had(sloppy shipyard filters and misleading C-store bundles notwithstanding). Not all Science ships are Science Vessels, not all Dreadnoughts necessarily need to match each other in gameplay style, no Cruiser is going to have 5 Tactical console mods if those particular ships only have 4 Engineering console mods, and "Escort" is certainly not synonymous with "Tactical ship". The Kolasi actually has the Destroyer/Warship Starship Mastery Package. The only ships so far that share mastery packages with Escorts are Raptors, as it is called(in blogs at least) "Escort/Raptor Starship Mastery Package".
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