God knows how long ago I put this idea up to give cannons some more flavor. Well It has faded into obscurity. Now I'm bringing the idea back.
First for single cannons. 1 increase their angle to around 200 degrees so they can be used broadside, and second allow them to be attached to the rear. Allow for some ships who want to use cannons to be able to broadside.
Second, Dual cannons, beef them up to where DHCs are since DCs are effectively useless. I'll explain what to do with DHCs. Oh and I'd open up their arc to around 70-90 somewhere.
Third DHCs. Ok this is the biggest change. First I'd limit them to the biggest ships that can mount dual cannons. So Yamato, Bortasqu etc, big ships. Second I'd completely change them to be like the BIG guns off a Battleship. When you let a broadside off the chain with these, it's just one shot per cannon, but it's again like landing a full broadside off a modern day BB. Give them 180 degree arc so they can fire, but the flip side is, if you mount 8 of these bad boys and fire them all at once. you go from full energy to zero, and it takes a while to reload these guns. These are the BIG guns of the fleet.
Turrets, basically already good as is.
These are the basic ideas of what I would do with the actual guns, far as abilities, well that's for you all to figure out.
Edit: Well after some feedback, some changes.
1. Most want DHCs to stay as is. OK cool. One other idea was to ditch DCs since they are 2 steps from worthless anyways and replace them. And idea to be sure.
2. To bring in some type of siege weapon style cannon, but again to be used for all ships. Which I could go for.
3. Merge DC and DHC and have some kind of variation on my idea.
4. Having DCs have a wider angle than DHC, which if they do keep them, I would agree.
5. most seem to kinda be 50/50 on my idea for single cannons. One said if we do this for single cannons, what is the point of turrets? Umm I point to 360 arrays and beam arrays. Did 360 arrays erase beam arrays? nope, so I don't think turrets will be taken out either.
Again guys, this was to really force my idea down upon people. More to open up the ball and get it rolling on ideas to get cannons something to get them on even keel with beams. I use both, but I want to be just as equally viable.
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DHC's only in the most useless ships to put them on? Trying to take weapons away from someone's build is sorely unappreciated.
You didn't comprehend and or understand. Not surprising. You COMPLETELY missed the spot where I said make DCs and buff them up to where DHCs are now.
Can you read, or are you just blind and venting your spleen?
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First for single cannons. 1 increase their angle to around 200 degrees so they can be used broadside,
I use single cannons on one of my toons strictly because I suck at advanced piloting and wanted the bigger arc. IMO they're fine the way they are. If I'm going to broadside I'll use beam arrays.
Second, Dual cannons, beef them up to where DHCs are since DCs are effectively useless. I'll explain what to do with DHCs. Oh and I'd open up their arc to around 70-90 somewhere.
I agree that the arc needs to be widened. There doesn't seem any reason to pick them over DHCs the way they are now and that would certainly help. Doesn't make sense to be beefed up to where DHCs are though. In between single and DHCs would be appropriate.
Third DHCs. Ok this is the biggest change. First I'd limit them to the biggest ships that can mount dual cannons. So Yamato, Bortasqu etc, big ships. Second I'd completely change them to be like the BIG guns off a Battleship. When you let a broadside off the chain with these, it's just one shot per cannon, but it's again like landing a full broadside off a modern day BB. Give them 180 degree arc so they can fire, but the flip side is, if you mount 8 of these bad boys and fire them all at once. you go from full energy to zero, and it takes a while to reload these guns. These are the BIG guns of the fleet.
Absolutely not. How many people do you think put DHCs on escorts and spend tons of resources upgrading them? You'll never get any support for this change so it's DOA.
The main thing that needs to be "fixed" with cannons is that ridiculous damage drop off.
Having your DHC idea as a different type of cannon entirely (siege cannons maybe?) could work if done right - that way the people who've spent tons on their existing gear can choose if they want to get any new stuff or keep their existing guns as-is. But overall I don't think cannons need to be changed as much as you describe - as tempus says, fix the damage drop off and cannons could become viable again.
Regarding DHCs vs DCs, maybe they should just merge the two into the exact same weapon type. It's pretty stupid to have a superior and inferior version of what's otherwise the exact same type of weapon--a 45-degree firing arc cannon.
Definitely agree about single cannons though. Right now, they're a complete joke.
I would rather see a mechanic used on larger ships to make existing dual heavies (and even other cannons) more worthwhile to use on them, while keeping them usable on the smaller ships that can use them as well right now. Kinda like a siege or artillery mode that the ship would enter giving up mobility for increased power/range/firing-arc of their cannons. This idea would take more to implement, but would make for some interesting choices an play-style changes between cruisers an escorts that use cannons. Trying to keep the idea vague an more of a concept, and let those that are good at the numbers figure how the numbers would work like the devs an such.
Siege/Artillery mode: When a cruiser/battle-cruiser/carrier or other such large vessels enter into a seige type mode it will divert power away from the ship's engines reducing the ship's turn-rate as well as their speed by a large margin; Then the diverted power is pooled into the weapon an shield systems buffing the range, firing-arc, while also reducing the damage fall off from firing cannons at long range.
Now you could also give the different cannon types a slightly different buff based on what they are good at, such as that single cannons might have their rate of fire buffed, while dual heavies would get a buff to their damage output, and yet dual cannons would get smaller buff to both their rate of fire an damage output keeping them in the middle ground.
The last part would be that the additional power diverted into the shields would increase their effectiveness to reduce impact of the lack of mobility incurred by entering the mode. I would say either that the buff to the shields should increase the shield's hp, and/or the hardness/resistance to energy damage of the shield, but could also be done to reduce the bleed thru of shields to zero making you able to shrug off alot of damage while being so immobile.
I would not mind seeing that cannons get a buff to their damage the closer they are to a target, like a reverse of the damage drop off, maybe like a damage penetration effect that the closer you are to the target your cannon fire bleeds thru their shield from rapid close successions of hits on the shields destabilizing them abit in that area.
Regarding DHCs vs DCs, maybe they should just merge the two into the exact same weapon type. It's pretty stupid to have a superior and inferior version of what's otherwise the exact same type of weapon--a 45-degree firing arc cannon.
Definitely agree about single cannons though. Right now, they're a complete joke.
Single cannons are actually quite efficient. It does require a different play style though.
If SC get an even larger firing arc and can be placed anywhere then what is the point of turrets?
I would argue for a change to DC: change firing arc to 90 degrees and allow them to be used on all ship types. Keep DHC restricted.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
DHC's only in the most useless ships to put them on? Trying to take weapons away from someone's build is sorely unappreciated.
You didn't comprehend and or understand. Not surprising. You COMPLETELY missed the spot where I said make DCs and buff them up to where DHCs are now.
Can you read, or are you just blind and venting your spleen?
So i got to find the funds to change my DHCs to DCs then upgrade them just so i can keep my build as is?
No Thanks.
Right. I think EVERYONE got the point of what the first post meant. But you missed the impact you would have on existing builds.
In addition to that, in the shows, small ships use cannons mainly, the Defiant, birds of prey, etc...
I DO agree that DCs and single cannons are vastly underused because of the game mechanics.
The real way to enact the kinds of changes you're talking about would be to add left/right arcs to large ships. But this kind of overhaul would completely break everything already out there, so it's really just not worth it.
Large ships that use beams get the advantage of both front and back arcs firing at the same time by broadsiding already. So broadsiding is already where we'd want it be for big ships. There's really not much to change.
DHC's only in the most useless ships to put them on? Trying to take weapons away from someone's build is sorely unappreciated.
I still agree with this. Some of us like the beefy energy blast visuals of DHCs over the puny tiny DC pewpew.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
DHC's only in the most useless ships to put them on? Trying to take weapons away from someone's build is sorely unappreciated.
You didn't comprehend and or understand. Not surprising. You COMPLETELY missed the spot where I said make DCs and buff them up to where DHCs are now.
Can you read, or are you just blind and venting your spleen?
Buffing up DCs to match DHCs isnt going to matter. Think about all the people who are using DHCs on other ships like escorts and BOPs or anything that isnt a "big ship" like you mentioned. Those people paid dil and real money for those things. You cant just put in a change with DHCs and say "ohh just get some DC's they are buffed to DHC levels now". That just looks like a big cash grab...
Well some good points made, with the DHCs already in use. Well could just like someone already said merge them into DCs we have so noone loses out on the builds they have now. That I think would be fair under what I am proposing. Far as DHCs of what I am proposing, hey new weapons to try out.
And far as restricting it to bigger ships, could drop that idea, but still keep the slower rate of fire, but harder hitting shots per shot.
Again guys, I was merely spitballing ideas to help cannons.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Regarding DHCs vs DCs, maybe they should just merge the two into the exact same weapon type. It's pretty stupid to have a superior and inferior version of what's otherwise the exact same type of weapon--a 45-degree firing arc cannon.
Definitely agree about single cannons though. Right now, they're a complete joke.
The DC & DHC stuff isn't "superior vs inferior", it's more a "different job" type of thing. To wit:
Dualies fire the same 4 volleys per shot that arrays, turrets, etc. use. Therefore, they're great at generating proc effects
Dual Heavies fire the same amount of DPS that the dualies provide, but does it in two shots per volley. These are great with crit boosters, etc., cause when the hit lands, it lands with a thud. Problem is, they don't proc as often as the regular ones...
So, it depends on your goal/build/whatever. DHCs are great for damage, especially crits, while DCs are your "proc machines"...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
I think that DHCs are fine as-is, but DCs should get the ninety-degree firing arc to have something in between thr 180 degree single cannons and the 45 degree DHCs.
Op stay away from my Dual heavy cannons on my tactical officers please. I like them on my small nimble ships such as bird of preys. To point NO on your idea.
Seems like an overall ill-conceived idea, basically designed to get the DHC's to the OPs favorite ship.
You don't even have a clue so I'm just going to point and laugh since one of my favorite ships is the Intel Raptor on the KDF side.
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Op stay away from my Dual heavy cannons on my tactical officers please. I like them on my small nimble ships such as bird of preys. To point NO on your idea.
I guess you missed my follow on post so let me reiterate for ya.
Well some good points made, with the DHCs already in use. Well could just like someone already said merge them into DCs we have so noone loses out on the builds they have now. That I think would be fair under what I am proposing. Far as DHCs of what I am proposing, hey new weapons to try out.
And far as restricting it to bigger ships, could drop that idea, but still keep the slower rate of fire, but harder hitting shots per shot.
Again guys, I was merely spitballing ideas to help cannons.
Try reading everything. step away from the drugs man.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Well some good points made, with the DHCs already in use. Well could just like someone already said merge them into DCs we have so noone loses out on the builds they have now. That I think would be fair under what I am proposing. Far as DHCs of what I am proposing, hey new weapons to try out.
And far as restricting it to bigger ships, could drop that idea, but still keep the slower rate of fire, but harder hitting shots per shot.
Again guys, I was merely spitballing ideas to help cannons.
Well some good points made, with the DHCs already in use. Well could just like someone already said merge them into DCs we have so noone loses out on the builds they have now. That I think would be fair under what I am proposing. Far as DHCs of what I am proposing, hey new weapons to try out.
And far as restricting it to bigger ships, could drop that idea, but still keep the slower rate of fire, but harder hitting shots per shot.
Again guys, I was merely spitballing ideas to help cannons.
I think that DHCs are fine as-is, but DCs should get the ninety-degree firing arc to have something in between thr 180 degree single cannons and the 45 degree DHCs.
I'm hesitant to say that DHCs are fine as is, they suffer from about the same things as DCs do, but with an increased downtime, a -12 power where the DCs have -10. To improve the DCs and NOT improve the DHCs would throw DHCs further into obsolescence than they already are. I don't mind the suggestions for making the DCs better, just in the part about leaveing DHCs behind. But throw in a +25 base damage to DHCs and IT'S A DEAL!
So I have a mouth, sue me.
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Instead of turning DHCs into something new, why not turn the useless _DC_ into something new? That is, drop them and add something new like Siege Cannons or Wave Motion Guns or Buster Cannons or Big Friendly Guns.
But i'd rather have heavy beam arrays. as big guns.
No thanks...last bloody thing this game needs is *more* beam love...what...the easiest weapon to use in the game is the most powerful isn't enough for you?
To the OP, with the change to the embassy console DC's are more powerful now...but I assume they still aren't the level of DHCs?
But i'd rather have heavy beam arrays. as big guns.
No thanks...last bloody thing this game needs is *more* beam love...what...the easiest weapon to use in the game is the most powerful isn't enough for you?
To the OP, with the change to the embassy console DC's are more powerful now...but I assume they still aren't the level of DHCs?
I don't know I haven't tried them.
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Instead of turning DHCs into something new, why not turn the useless _DC_ into something new? That is, drop them and add something new like Siege Cannons or Wave Motion Guns or Buster Cannons or Big Friendly Guns.
That is an idea. Could go that angle.
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Comments
You didn't comprehend and or understand. Not surprising. You COMPLETELY missed the spot where I said make DCs and buff them up to where DHCs are now.
Can you read, or are you just blind and venting your spleen?
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http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
And all ec and dilithium i spend on my 16 toons to get ur/epic weapons i need to do again.... No thanks.
I use single cannons on one of my toons strictly because I suck at advanced piloting and wanted the bigger arc. IMO they're fine the way they are. If I'm going to broadside I'll use beam arrays.
Why? I don't see any need for that at all. Just seems silly to me.
I agree that the arc needs to be widened. There doesn't seem any reason to pick them over DHCs the way they are now and that would certainly help. Doesn't make sense to be beefed up to where DHCs are though. In between single and DHCs would be appropriate.
Absolutely not. How many people do you think put DHCs on escorts and spend tons of resources upgrading them? You'll never get any support for this change so it's DOA.
The main thing that needs to be "fixed" with cannons is that ridiculous damage drop off.
Definitely agree about single cannons though. Right now, they're a complete joke.
I would not mind seeing that cannons get a buff to their damage the closer they are to a target, like a reverse of the damage drop off, maybe like a damage penetration effect that the closer you are to the target your cannon fire bleeds thru their shield from rapid close successions of hits on the shields destabilizing them abit in that area.
Single cannons are actually quite efficient. It does require a different play style though.
If SC get an even larger firing arc and can be placed anywhere then what is the point of turrets?
I would argue for a change to DC: change firing arc to 90 degrees and allow them to be used on all ship types. Keep DHC restricted.
So i got to find the funds to change my DHCs to DCs then upgrade them just so i can keep my build as is?
No Thanks.
Right. I think EVERYONE got the point of what the first post meant. But you missed the impact you would have on existing builds.
In addition to that, in the shows, small ships use cannons mainly, the Defiant, birds of prey, etc...
I DO agree that DCs and single cannons are vastly underused because of the game mechanics.
The real way to enact the kinds of changes you're talking about would be to add left/right arcs to large ships. But this kind of overhaul would completely break everything already out there, so it's really just not worth it.
Large ships that use beams get the advantage of both front and back arcs firing at the same time by broadsiding already. So broadsiding is already where we'd want it be for big ships. There's really not much to change.
I still agree with this. Some of us like the beefy energy blast visuals of DHCs over the puny tiny DC pewpew.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
indeed.
why I should stop to use DHC on my pilot ships? they are the perfect ships for this kind of weapons!!!
Buffing up DCs to match DHCs isnt going to matter. Think about all the people who are using DHCs on other ships like escorts and BOPs or anything that isnt a "big ship" like you mentioned. Those people paid dil and real money for those things. You cant just put in a change with DHCs and say "ohh just get some DC's they are buffed to DHC levels now". That just looks like a big cash grab...
And far as restricting it to bigger ships, could drop that idea, but still keep the slower rate of fire, but harder hitting shots per shot.
Again guys, I was merely spitballing ideas to help cannons.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
The DC & DHC stuff isn't "superior vs inferior", it's more a "different job" type of thing. To wit:
Dualies fire the same 4 volleys per shot that arrays, turrets, etc. use. Therefore, they're great at generating proc effects
Dual Heavies fire the same amount of DPS that the dualies provide, but does it in two shots per volley. These are great with crit boosters, etc., cause when the hit lands, it lands with a thud. Problem is, they don't proc as often as the regular ones...
So, it depends on your goal/build/whatever. DHCs are great for damage, especially crits, while DCs are your "proc machines"...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
You don't even have a clue so I'm just going to point and laugh since one of my favorite ships is the Intel Raptor on the KDF side.
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http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
I guess you missed my follow on post so let me reiterate for ya.
Try reading everything. step away from the drugs man.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
And also flaming those who disagree with you.
So I have a mouth, sue me.
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http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
No thanks...last bloody thing this game needs is *more* beam love...what...the easiest weapon to use in the game is the most powerful isn't enough for you?
To the OP, with the change to the embassy console DC's are more powerful now...but I assume they still aren't the level of DHCs?
I don't know I haven't tried them.
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http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
That is an idea. Could go that angle.
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http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1