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Remember the siphon drones?

Remember how annoying those could be, when they'd suck your power dry and leave you sitting there raging?

Obviously those don't work anymore, or we would still see them. But I was just thinking about my Vesta build, wondering if it might be fun to try an alternate build with focus on drain rather than GW3/TBR2, and I remembered those old siphon drones with a nostalgic chuckle. That was the one good reason for having Vent Warp Plasma, which is otherwise rather hard to use effectively.

Among other things, I suspect the ubiquity of FAW would make picking off the siphon drones all too easy. But they were fun back in the day :)
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Comments

  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,921 Arc User
    Just like a lot of things Cryptic went way to far in one direction...drains are so useless in this game...npcs recover rapidly and players have lots of ways to heal...
  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    Um... i beg to differ. My drainboat can shut stuff the hell down faster than anything I've ever seen. When I take her into the badlands the entire zone goes by faster with me draining the bosses.
  • jadz3jadz3 Member Posts: 107 Arc User
    samt1996 wrote: »
    Um... i beg to differ. My drainboat can shut stuff the hell down faster than anything I've ever seen. When I take her into the badlands the entire zone goes by faster with me draining the bosses.

    Agreed... I took my drain/debuff build Samsar running high flow caps with leech and polaron also running Supressive Barrage on an Aux2Bat cruiser build... lets me debuff a lot and often, hard for mirror ships to take any hits when I leech their shields offline with polaron proc and Plasmonic Leech taking roughly 65-70 energy per SS before resists. Easy to tank when your enemy's weapons are at half power AND do about 35% less damage on top of that with Supressive Barrage.

  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    I don't think there has been any negative changes that affected Flow Caps / Drain Builds, has there? It's been forever since I flew a KDF Drain Boat. I used to be able to go to the biggest, meanest NPC and just "Turn it Off" or make it so that it's attacks are so weak to the point of meaninglessness. It was harder making it work in PVP because of all the Power Insulation and easy counters. The trick was getting the target to burn his counters or clear them before applying the drains. Others had nastier tricks to get to you before using a Drain but it took effort.

    My best platform to do it was with the Vo'Quv. SCI-heavy Carrier, 2 hangars with Elite Siphon Drones, Aceton Assimilators, Tyken's Rift / Energy Siphon. I have not tried it however when Tachyon Beam got buffed.

    Voth Palisade, especially with its console/console set is specifically suited for Flow Caps. I remember seeing long ago a pair of Voth Palisade players coming for me and I thought, "Well, I'm really f***ed now" :D

    Anyways, I don't recall any meta changes to drains making them worse off. It SHOULD still be viable but Drain Heavy builds have issues if you're heavily dedicated to it like my Vo'Quv was:

    1. You need significantly high Flow Caps to have any sort of effect, the same sort of build specialization that a truly effective PartGens build needs to stack Particle Generator Skill, Drain Boats need to do the same with Flow Capacitor Skill for its best performance.

    2. Drain Heavy Builds work slow on trash NPCs. I tend to save my best for the big targets so that it is easy for others to take it down with no worries (of course, a high DPS team wouldn't even need me in this regard). If I wanted to "Turn Off" a target, I had to stack everything against it. Not one ability. Everything. With cooldowns and such, this was why I saved my best for the main targets.
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  • jslynjslyn Member Posts: 1,791 Arc User
    One of my trio uses a Drain Build. It works great. My Torpedo Bomber uses it as a secondary to shield strip. That is less great being a side function. If you run Drains as your main ability type, then it will shut enemies down with little difficulty.

    Also, the Breen ships do well for that sort of build. Might not be a place to set it up. Although, yes, a Vesta would work, too. It just wouldn't benefit from the Breen Console Set.
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    Drain builds are good fun but they need a fair bit of planning and specialisation. Same with any serious science trickery really.
    Which is probably why a lot of people don't "get" science and it's not as popular as just dps'ing the game.
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  • chastity1337chastity1337 Member Posts: 1,608 Arc User
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    Drain builds are good fun but they need a fair bit of planning and specialisation. Same with any serious science trickery really.
    Which is probably why a lot of people don't "get" science and it's not as popular as just dps'ing the game.

    Absolutely true, and everything is so DPS-oriented these days, which is why my current Vesta build is so focused on damage. I used to load up with heals and support type stuff, now all she uses is Sci Team and Hazard Emitters; the rest is all damage output, aside from Polarise Hull, which is needed given Cryptic's obsession with putting tractor beams on everything lately
  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    Yes but a good particle generator boat melts stuff faster than FAW though parses don't agree. Because it doesn't have to worry about shields and armor. I'll be more than happy to b*tch slap some spacebar sleepers any day.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    jslyn wrote: »
    One of my trio uses a Drain Build. It works great. My Torpedo Bomber uses it as a secondary to shield strip. That is less great being a side function. If you run Drains as your main ability type, then it will shut enemies down with little difficulty.

    Also, the Breen ships do well for that sort of build. Might not be a place to set it up. Although, yes, a Vesta would work, too. It just wouldn't benefit from the Breen Console Set.

    IMO, you're better off without the Breen Console Set even if you could use a Breen ship. It takes an unholy amount of Console Slots and for that kind of space, does very little in giving you Flow Capacitor Skill increases. The 2 piece bonus is the equivalent of one Flow Cap Console and none of the consoles actually grant Flow Caps by themselves. Almost all the Breen Consoles have nothing to do with Flow Cap abilities, which is the funny part of the set and intent of the set.

    The Breen Console Set suffers from a lack of focus, reinforcing very little of what it's supposed to actually do. It's nothing more than a bunch gimmick abilities with nothing to make said abilities actually better.

    You're better off using things like Rom Embassy / Research Lab Consoles, Rule 62 (which has more pertinent bonuses for the way many Science ships are flown), Plasmonic Leech, etc than the Breen Consoles.

    On a side note, AHOD and some of those Terran Reputation Traits bring interesting aspects. Hell, the old Reciprocity + AHOD combo can still help in cutting down the SCI cooldowns.
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  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User

    IMO, you're better off without the Breen Console Set even if you could use a Breen ship. It takes an unholy amount of Console Slots and for that kind of space, does very little in giving you Flow Capacitor Skill increases. The 2 piece bonus is the equivalent of one Flow Cap Console and none of the consoles actually grant Flow Caps by themselves. Almost all the Breen Consoles have nothing to do with Flow Cap abilities, which is the funny part of the set and intent of the set.

    The Breen Console Set suffers from a lack of focus, reinforcing very little of what it's supposed to actually do. It's nothing more than a bunch gimmick abilities with nothing to make said abilities actually better.

    Yeah the Breen consoles are just silly gimmick clickies that give very little to your build or to the battle in general. Most of them don't even synergise with boff powers either so you don't really gain anything from slotting them. General science boosting consoles with +flow and +prtg etc. like the embasy or R&D lab stuff will give far more then the Breen set ever does.

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  • jslynjslyn Member Posts: 1,791 Arc User
    IMO, you're better off without the Breen Console Set even if you could use a Breen ship. It takes an unholy amount of Console Slots and for that kind of space, does very little in giving you Flow Capacitor Skill increases. The 2 piece bonus is the equivalent of one Flow Cap Console and none of the consoles actually grant Flow Caps by themselves. Almost all the Breen Consoles have nothing to do with Flow Cap abilities, which is the funny part of the set and intent of the set.



    I didn't mean the entire Set, just the ones that fit with the Drain Build. My fault; I should have been more specific.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited December 2015
    Palisade+Quantum Phase Torpedo+TS3 with high drain. Works wonders even in trash NPCs even after the huge nerf if you run a high flow caps boat. Just a heads up, a second nerf might or might not be coming for TS+secondary effect torpedoes at some point since the Neutronic which now drains x3 for a hot second is on its way to getting "fixed" to only proc once per TS and always the same amount.
    Post edited by lucho80 on
  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    Why cant they just leave that poor torpedo alone...
  • chastity1337chastity1337 Member Posts: 1,608 Arc User
    Yumpin' Yesus, they already nerfed the Neutronic Torpedo three times!

    I love the IKC from 3-piece bonus, but that torpedo gets less appealing all the time.
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    Lord above not another torpedo nerf!

    They may as well just delete torpedo spread from the game as the list of times when it's actually useful (especially with special torps) is rapidly being eroded by a barrage of nerfs.
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  • chastity1337chastity1337 Member Posts: 1,608 Arc User
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    Lord above not another torpedo nerf!

    They may as well just delete torpedo spread from the game as the list of times when it's actually useful (especially with special torps) is rapidly being eroded by a barrage of nerfs.

    ^^ This, exactly.

    I think what's going on is the usual thing that happens; a tiny group of elite players is achieving remarkable results with something, so the devs nerf it to death for everyone. As usual, the many are punished for the doings of the few.

    It's a heavy-handed, authoritarian, meat-axe approach to things.
  • makocallowaymakocalloway Member Posts: 455 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    Were those drain drones only A KDF thing? I don't see them in the hangar store in my Starbase.
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  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    I think so.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    Were those drain drones only A KDF thing? I don't see them in the hangar store in my Starbase.
    Nausicaan tech I think.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • makocallowaymakocalloway Member Posts: 455 Arc User
    Man that's too bad, I want them for my drain build.

    Now I have to decide between the Breen carrier and (some)of the Breen set, or my palisade and it's aceton console...
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  • misterferengi#8959 misterferengi Member Posts: 486 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    I remember flying Infected when they 1st split up the STF's way back and the tact cube at the end was a challenge. Stick 2 KDF siphon drones on it and "great"! shut it down to being nothing more than target practice, sadly the drones aren't what they used to be. But thats progression, games always changing. They'll probably at some point down the line have a 2nd lease of life
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  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    The ferengi Lobi Console is invaluable these days. The EPS boost alone makes it worth it's weight in gold.
  • chastity1337chastity1337 Member Posts: 1,608 Arc User
    samt1996 wrote: »
    The ferengi Lobi Console is invaluable these days. The EPS boost alone makes it worth it's weight in gold.

    Are we talking about the Rule 62 console?
    http://sto.gamepedia.com/Ferengi_Marauder#Console_-_Rule_62_Multipurpose_Combat_Console
  • chastity1337chastity1337 Member Posts: 1,608 Arc User
    I'm at the shipyard in Qo'nos now, and there are Power Siphon Drones available for about 25K EC. I seem to remember them being green quality, but these are blue, and it says they launch 3x level 61 power siphon drones. Oh, and it says right on the package that they are affected by Flow Caps.

    Wouldn't the level 61 part seem to indicate that these are a newer version of our old favorites?

    I am almost tempted to give this a try...
  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    Yes that console.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    I'm at the shipyard in Qo'nos now, and there are Power Siphon Drones available for about 25K EC. I seem to remember them being green quality, but these are blue, and it says they launch 3x level 61 power siphon drones. Oh, and it says right on the package that they are affected by Flow Caps.

    Wouldn't the level 61 part seem to indicate that these are a newer version of our old favorites?

    I am almost tempted to give this a try...
    Yeah the "great pet nerf" actually made pet power drain a bit better. Previously they weren't affected by Flow cap.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • chastity1337chastity1337 Member Posts: 1,608 Arc User
    So, does an optimal or near-optimal drain build require a Sci toon, or would an Engineer potentially work as well?
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    sci captains don't get unique skills for drain. so yeah....
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    A drain build or to be honest any specialised science build should in theory work with any captain in my opinion.
    The captain skills are universal so you can have a sci heavy tac or end to boost sci tricks. And the captain abilities whilst nice are not essential as most of your buffs will be coming from a very specific and well thought out set of equipment and boff powers.
    It's the equipment and use of those powers that makes science difficult to truly master I find. You can slap some random stuff on a build and it might work but to get a real science build working takes a fair bit of planning and choice of items.
    That's why I find it so much more appealing than just going for all out attack DPS builds. But un some ways a good science build is similar to a top 1% DPS build in that both need to be well planned and piloted.

    It's the main reason why I think the overwhelming majority think science is pointless as they just don't have the commitment needed to push that build as far as it needs to go. You've gotta put together a very specialised set of powers and parts that all synergize well and people just don't have the interest or patience in that it seems.
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