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Torps: I tried, I really tried

Since the Delta expansion I have been running an all cannon build on my Tac Scimi mainly as my power levels and leech were high enough to compensate with the extra drain and still maintain over 100 weapon power and as much as I loved the cannon+torp setup my torps were severely lacking in power even with Spread 3, my cannons often hit with crits between 16k-40k depending on circumstances and toprs were way way behind.
What with the recent shift in trying to get torps up there a bit more I decided to invest in the new Terran set torp and upgraded it to mk14, swapped back to Spread 3 from Omega 1 and shifted some points in my skill tree (I had no points in torp powers obviously)
I was expecting great things from the torp mainly due to the huge 200% damage increase on low health enemies but I just didn't see anything.

I played advanced Gateway to Gre'thor and went to town on them pesky Heralds but alas the torp just didn't work. I fly at full throttle all the time as I use Peddle to the Metal II and Point Blank trait which is fun but I will occasionally overshoot my target(s) leaving them with very little health and whilst my rear weapons sometimes finish them off I usually have to turn for another run at them (I have a stupidly high turn rate though) I figured using torps with Spread 3 would act as a good killing blow but all but the smallest ships (like shuttles) would shrug them off even with lower than 25% hull and tiny or no shields, you'd notice a spike in damage but really quite low.

I switched the Terran torp to my Neutronic MK14 Ultra Rare to see if that helped things along and whilst I did notice a small increase ion damage output despite the Terran's apparent 200% damage increase on low health targets it was still woefully inefficient.

In one instance I was playing with a lone Herald Baltim, knocked its shields out with a couple volleys of cannon fire and reduced it to about 30% hull whilst about 3km form it then unleashed a torp spread with the Terran torp only for the ship to laugh it off with all torps registering hits in the low hundreds with 2 crits of a whopping 600, a single rear turret does several times that damage output.

All in all torps seem to still be all but useless unless on lower difficulty areas and even then most enemy ships explode before my torps can reach them so whats the point. The damage resistance of enemy ships with torps is insanely high and shields seem to stop all damage altogether with some of my torps not registering damage at all against enemy ships with even a slither of shield left. They need a HUGE boost in power or enemy ships need a HUGE nerf in resistance to them especially shields before anyone will take them seriously.


Anyway I'm off to fit my 5 epic dual heavy cannons again and Kemocite Laced Weaponry, that should satisfy my need to more explosions :)
star_trek_scimitar_redesign_2_by_adamburn-d93puvq.jpg


Comments

  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    This is why even though it's not the flavor of the month, I fly with transphasics on my main: I am going to at least get the 40% bleedthrough hit even when my enemy's shields aren't all the way down. One toon flies with quantums just to have something different, and while I like that they hit harder when they do connect, relying on the shields to be all the way down makes that a riskier gamble as to whether I'll connect with bare hull and be able to do that damage.

    Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
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  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    That's the one reason the QPT was so loved, it gave you a realistic chance to fully remove the shields off a target and still do kinetic damage.
    Even a tiny 1% of shields can totally knacker your expertly timed attack.
    SulMatuul.png
  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    Yep...whereas even a 40% hit from a Mk XIV VR Breen Boom Bomb (TM ;) ) is going to give a smaller craft a VERY bad day, and at least take a chunk of hull out of a larger ship. With transphasics timing is not so much of a concern especially if you think about what you are trying to accomplish. Fighter spam? Rip a torpedo spread and take care of that so you can get back to killing your primary target.

    Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
    Proudly F2P.  Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
  • harlequinpixieharlequinpixie Member Posts: 172 Arc User
    No idea how you are getting 600 damage on a crit with the Terran torpedo. Unless you are exaggerating. Which is totally possible. As it is, if your auxiliary power is set low, you'll do far less damage with torpedoes. I fly a torpedo boat, with the terran rep torpedo and manage crits of 200k or so. And I have focused in torpedoes with consoles, skills points and so on. Oh yes, I don't have kemocite, so the numbers I am getting are rather decent. Even my other two torpedoes, which are the gravimetric and the neutronic still manage around 60-80k crits.
  • e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    The Terran Torp needs more testing on my end but it does seem to underperform on Torpedo Spread. My logs show its performance on Torpedo Spread is pretty low compared to my other torps. On the other hand, I get some really high normal hits with it (up to 200k+) against low-hull targets.
  • horatiofenixhoratiofenix Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    Thats where it seems to fall down, Torp Spread it seems to significantly impact its damage output. Single use I can get some decent damage out of it including high crits but as soon I go with Spread 3 it plummets massively. I don;t use any torp consoles but do have the space trait for increased torp damage but again my experience using Spread 3 with any of my torps results in a huge drop off in damage output.
    star_trek_scimitar_redesign_2_by_adamburn-d93puvq.jpg


  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    Thats where it seems to fall down, Torp Spread it seems to significantly impact its damage output. Single use I can get some decent damage out of it including high crits but as soon I go with Spread 3 it plummets massively. I don;t use any torp consoles but do have the space trait for increased torp damage but again my experience using Spread 3 with any of my torps results in a huge drop off in damage output.

    You do realize, that TS3 lowers the dmg of the torpedo, but you fire multiples of that lower dmg = higher generally overall, than a single torpedoes base dmg.

    Also, are you even skilled in torpedoes? As in, did you spend any skill points into kinetic weapons? If not, this could be part of your problem!
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    On single shot I've got some massive crits as well. But like others have said spread seems a bit odd, almost like it's either not criting or they are too low. Haven't parsed it that's just based on the numbers flying over the screen.
    SulMatuul.png
  • jorantomalakjorantomalak Member Posts: 7,133 Arc User
    Yup i loved the QPT but will now switch to transpasics for all my torpedo needs.
  • e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    Because there are more torpedoes flying in the air, torp spread generally has lower damage per torp.

    Now the thing with the Terran torp is that it scales damage up on low hull. Whether or not that damage modifier is applied to it under torp spread, I am not sure yet but right now it doesn't seem like it from my experience so far. What I have noticed on some of my logs though is that the Terran torp roughly equals my Enhanced-Biomolecular torp under torp spread, which shouldn't be the case under low hull situations if the 200% damage multiplier was applied.

    I haven't tested this extensively myself though so maybe the numbers do add up correctly in the end.

    Maybe @darkknightucf played with this torp more and placed it under scrutiny himself (he's pretty thorough with testing his torps).
  • lamyrslamyrs Member Posts: 312 Arc User
    If you don't use sets that increase torp dmg, if you don't use torp tac consoles and if you don't use torp traits what are you expecting? I wonder how you do to keep a scimatar over 100 weapons power with a 5/3 ship full cannon but anyway if it working for you keep going that way.
    I am from Belgium and english isn't my main language, sorry if I make mistakes.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    Problems with the new Terran Torpedo would not surprise me much, it is not that unusual unfortunately that torpedo interaction with torpedo spread and high yield torpedo is borked initially. Maybe we're lucky and someone less lazy than me will test things. ;)
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    The few parses I have collected, the Terran torpedo has performed higher in most cases!
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • thatcursedwolfthatcursedwolf Member Posts: 1,617 Arc User
    Shield slamming is a sad fact of life for torp boats.

    That's why I stick to all plasma or all transphasic torp boats. QPT's shield stripping had given me hope that I could run other torp types.
    This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
  • horatiofenixhoratiofenix Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    I respeced to add in some torp points and used a couple space traits to increase torp damage and such and whilst I am aware that Torp Spread decreases the damage of each single torp it seemed to drop off an awful lot more than I was expecting, maybe I'm just jaded and seem to think when using Torp Spread in the past is was amazing but I guess after shifting to an all cannon build and performing so well that using torps I notice the drop off more than I would have back before the expansion released.

    Also I manage to keep high weapon power due to decreasing power drain from weapons with a ship trait from the T6 Mogai I think, PLasmonic Leach, Supremacy ship trait, Fleet Spire Core, and Warp Core Doff, constant use of EPtW, and the Omega Weapons thing. Plus some other things happening during combat that means all my power levels are well over 75% (thus benefiting from the AMP core) and weapon power never drops bellow 100. Basically I think the whole issue is not the torps being TRIBBLE just that my ship has outgrown them haha.
    star_trek_scimitar_redesign_2_by_adamburn-d93puvq.jpg


  • kyrrokkyrrok Member Posts: 1,352 Arc User
    Torp spread individually may pack less punch than tossing them solo, but they sure have several major advantages over High Yield. More damage total, multiple targets, and my favorite, guaranteed hits That's right, they never miss. If the ship moves out past 20km they still take the big time damage. If the torps give up and disappear, the target still takes a reduction in shield/hull strength anyway. Spread sure has it better than High Yield I can tell you that much.

    Torp spread may not be the best ability in all the game, but it sure is the best torp ability in the game.
  • darkknightucfdarkknightucf Member Posts: 1,546 Media Corps
    I am focusing on the KLW procs (or lack of) for HY, but I will add this to the list of torp tests. Maybe if I can get the Chief Engineer, @jarvisandalfred to join me on some tests over the weekend?
    @Odenknight | U.S.S. Challenger | "Remember The Seven"
    Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
    Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
    "A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
    I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
  • gerwalk0769gerwalk0769 Member Posts: 1,095 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    Since the Delta expansion I have been running an all cannon build on my Tac Scimi mainly as my power levels and leech were high enough to compensate with the extra drain and still maintain over 100 weapon power and as much as I loved the cannon+torp setup my torps were severely lacking in power even with Spread 3, my cannons often hit with crits between 16k-40k depending on circumstances and toprs were way way behind.
    What with the recent shift in trying to get torps up there a bit more I decided to invest in the new Terran set torp and upgraded it to mk14, swapped back to Spread 3 from Omega 1 and shifted some points in my skill tree (I had no points in torp powers obviously)
    I was expecting great things from the torp mainly due to the huge 200% damage increase on low health enemies but I just didn't see anything.

    I played advanced Gateway to Gre'thor and went to town on them pesky Heralds but alas the torp just didn't work. I fly at full throttle all the time as I use Peddle to the Metal II and Point Blank trait which is fun but I will occasionally overshoot my target(s) leaving them with very little health and whilst my rear weapons sometimes finish them off I usually have to turn for another run at them (I have a stupidly high turn rate though) I figured using torps with Spread 3 would act as a good killing blow but all but the smallest ships (like shuttles) would shrug them off even with lower than 25% hull and tiny or no shields, you'd notice a spike in damage but really quite low.

    I switched the Terran torp to my Neutronic MK14 Ultra Rare to see if that helped things along and whilst I did notice a small increase ion damage output despite the Terran's apparent 200% damage increase on low health targets it was still woefully inefficient.

    In one instance I was playing with a lone Herald Baltim, knocked its shields out with a couple volleys of cannon fire and reduced it to about 30% hull whilst about 3km form it then unleashed a torp spread with the Terran torp only for the ship to laugh it off with all torps registering hits in the low hundreds with 2 crits of a whopping 600, a single rear turret does several times that damage output.

    All in all torps seem to still be all but useless unless on lower difficulty areas and even then most enemy ships explode before my torps can reach them so whats the point. The damage resistance of enemy ships with torps is insanely high and shields seem to stop all damage altogether with some of my torps not registering damage at all against enemy ships with even a slither of shield left. They need a HUGE boost in power or enemy ships need a HUGE nerf in resistance to them especially shields before anyone will take them seriously.


    Anyway I'm off to fit my 5 epic dual heavy cannons again and Kemocite Laced Weaponry, that should satisfy my need to more explosions :)

    Torpedoes can be extremely frustrating, and effective. And dealing with shields can be maddening, they can regenerate quickly and the slightest sliver introduces kinetic resistance.

    I've rarely, if ever, delivered a first strike killing blow using only torpedoes (I should be fully specced into torpedoes). I often have to engage in more than one attack run and also use support attacks using Sci magic; but then I'm only using torpedoes. Perhaps utilizing the right Tac or Engie magic can give you an edge.

    If I was running energy weapons with torpedoes, I'd first consider Teryon or Polaron.

    A few tips:

    When running specialty torpedoes check to see what stats boost that torpedo's performance. (e.g. Neutronic: Flow Caps)
    • Boost those stats if you can.
    • Use all torpedo damage consoles if you are not already.
    • Use Kemo with torpedoes if you can.
    • If using beams try using Target Sub Systems to weaken shields. The new Engie Cryo power might help torpedoes batter down shields.
    • Some torpedoes work better and are more effective using HY.

    Consider torpedoes that use shield-bypassing damage: Plasma, Transphasic, Specialty torpedoes:Hargh'peng, and variants: Enhanced Bio Molecular, Neutronic, Gravimetric, Terran, etc. (some of these have a chance to apply shield-bypassing damage and others automatically apply it).
    • I think you'll get more satisfaction out of using the Particle Emission Plasma torpedo, which you can pick up on the exchange for a very low price, or other plasma torpedoes.

    I agree that the Terran torpedo is lackluster. It's chance to apply radiation damage is inadequate and it's scaling damage seems to favor more tactical consoles boosting its base, that might lead, to increased damage on the scaling end, just my sense. I've not been impressed with this situational weapon, and so far I've run it a very specific designed ships. But I'll test it on my general build.

    At the moment torpedoes are slower that energy weapons, you need to find targets away from the crowd and attack them.

    If you are using torpedoes as your main weapon you have to approach piloting differently in some cases.
    • If you are constantly flying then consider long or figure-eight attack runs.
    • If your weapons face fore than consider stationary frontal attacks.


    Play with a torpedo for a while before upgrading it.

    Run torpedoes for a while and become comfortable with them before speccing into them; its a lifestyle choice and some cannot easily respec out of those skills.

    I hope you continue to play with torpedoes, both successes and failures can be impressive.
    Post edited by gerwalk0769 on
    Joined STO in September 2010.
  • reynoldsxdreynoldsxd Member Posts: 977 Arc User
    Particle Emission torpedoes, because burns do not care about shields and the free, absolute crowd control is gold.
    I use it on every char that has not a specific build with other torps.

    As for ease of torpedo use:

    Vaadwaur polarons signifcantly break shields protective propertis versus torpedoes.
    My jemmy dread Starts with a volley of mk14 dual heavys/duals to spread the proc, then the neutronic spread goes in and maul's the targets some more.



    As For scimitars: Going full burn frontloaded damage is a good approach. You should replace any forward torp with a dual beam bank and us the combionation of Beam Overload and Energy weapon Doffs (those who give shield pen on BO hits) to just straight up kill stuff throguh their shields.
  • darkknightucfdarkknightucf Member Posts: 1,546 Media Corps
    reynoldsxd wrote: »
    Particle Emission torpedoes, because burns do not care about shields and the free, absolute crowd control is gold.
    I use it on every char that has not a specific build with other torps.

    As for ease of torpedo use:

    Vaadwaur polarons signifcantly break shields protective propertis versus torpedoes.
    My jemmy dread Starts with a volley of mk14 dual heavys/duals to spread the proc, then the neutronic spread goes in and maul's the targets some more.



    As For scimitars: Going full burn frontloaded damage is a good approach. You should replace any forward torp with a dual beam bank and us the combionation of Beam Overload and Energy weapon Doffs (those who give shield pen on BO hits) to just straight up kill stuff throguh their shields.

    I'll save you the pain; Vaadwaur Polarons aren't worth it.
    @Odenknight | U.S.S. Challenger | "Remember The Seven"
    Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
    Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
    "A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
    I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    Yes the particle emission torp is always a winner. The slowdown of npcs and the AOE plasma fire cloud makes it extremely useful.

    Need to slow down enemies out of grav wells - PEP
    Need some AOE shield bypassing damage - PEP
    Need something to synergize with your high partigen sci attacks - PEP

    Also I've found using the intimidating strikes trait works wonders too, they can't fight back when they are stunned!
    SulMatuul.png
  • burstorionburstorion Member Posts: 1,750 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    Shh! don't give away the secrets to torping or they'll get nerfed as it uses sci magic!​​
  • lowy1lowy1 Member Posts: 964 Arc User
    I use photons on my scis boat and it hits hard, nightly news the gravimetric set in its completed hotness. Its wonderous for photon builds. I use primarily the ebm photon as well to fire first.
    HzLLhLB.gif

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