The game is becoming no longer fun. Why? Because there is no challenge anymore. Why? Not because of me, but because high DPS wizards are in every STF i join now. It was a grind but it was a challenging grind. A few weeks back I hit parsed 17k on my Astika and thought WOW I am really hitting hard. In normal difficulty this is true and nothing poses a threat to me anymore, thus why I don't do normal STFs anymore cause it's no longer a challenge. So being in advanced it's a huge jump in difficulty, everything hits harder and you ballooned every enemy's HP by five times their amount (which I don't agree with, that was just laziness). Regardless, it pushed me to retool my ships, and while 17k is strong, it still doesn't let me solo more than one borg sphere at a time, if second is in the mix at the same time I gotta get the hell outta dodge.
But now, especially in the past few weeks, there is a gigantic DPS parser in every STF I join, everything dies so fast I can't even guage my own strength anymore, I'm not using any crazy space doffs, zero, I have some torp doffs and a grav well doff, thats sort of it. Just all MK12 or above gear and good use of bridge officer abilities. But something has got to be reigned in and I'm not sure what. Is kemocite still an issue? Is it attack pattern alpha on the tac captains? (I'm a science captain). When 1-2 people in every STF individually do more damage than the other 3 below them combined by a magnitude of 2 or more, the game feels pointless as you can barely even contribute even with all I did to up my damage.
I know people don't like nerfs but something has got to give here.
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For the record, just smashing your spacebar, you should be able to do 30k+ in an Astika easily.
We got time gates, rifts to close, try and error mini games and what not all to make you "happy".
Nerfing DPS over the stuff that makes it work would send out one single message to all players in game: There is no reason to progress your characters so don’t do it! Besides costume unlocks there would be no need to explore reputation systems, contribute to fleets, open lock boxes or make zen store purchases.
Penalizing peeps for getting good at pew pew in a pew pew game is a bad idea so be careful what you ask for.
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There are higher difficulties in the game for those players who have tried to get the best out of their ship - doesn't require min-maxing to the utmost, but at the very least it includes running top-end gear and making sure that everything you use benefits your playstyle to the max. If you like grav well spamming for instance, make sure that you're boosting your part gens as much as possible, run your aux power high, grab a secondary deflector that adds an ability to the grav well, pop in some traits that play off exotic damage types, and so on.
Either way, at least upgrade all of your gear to Mk XIV across the board - forget rarity, just the boost from Mk XII to XIV is usually a marked increase in stats. And make sure you have a full set of space doffs that are geared to the abilities you use most often.
If you're using a parsing program, gotta be wary of the results. If 17K was your number in normal queues, it'll be different in Advanced. You're likely punching at a lot lower weight class.
Also, those special doffs cost as much as a ship individually (or used to before admiralty skyrockted ship costs across the board). and I do have at least one ship with mk 14 across the board and it hits around 15k in advanced, thats my T6 kolasi siege destroyer.
Recently, after season 11 hit, my fleet decided to run the Tier 2 Combat performance project in the Research Lab which adds 15% damage. I was expecting to get at least 40k DPS on most of my runs, instead the result of my first run was 30 or 31k. I never did more than 36k while that boost was active. I haven't parsed when the boost was no longer active, but I can certainly see that my weapons aren't hitting as hard anymore as they used to, before the launch of season 11.
I think there was a thread somewhere where people mentioned that they did notably less damage after the launch of season 11, but I can't find it anymore.
Even if there's still people who do 50k-100k damage, let them. It's not like they're able to do that without having to make some huge investments. Power creep isn't just 'there', it's something they had to work on to achieve it and the company is earning a lot of money off of it.
There's people in this game who will spend insane amounts of dilithium just to get a weapon with a modifier that's slightly better. There's probably thousands of people spending Zen to convert to dilithium and upgrade their stuff to mk 14. Allowing them to get a better weapon and then decide to nerf it, after you accepted their money when they improved their gear, would be unethical to say the least.
You could say that the company is actively encouraging people to upgrade their gear and that it is actively selling this 'power creep' or 'rampant DPS'. Cryptic or PWE aren't neutral in this, indeed, they are benefitting more than anyone else from this 'rampant DPS'. So I assume they are not planning to do anything 'to combat the rampant DPS' as it would be kind of hypocritical to do so.
The only way to fix this would be to introduce a new difficulty and stop giving people options to become even more powerful.
I feel you and this was the argumentation I used myself one year ago.
Problem is just with a few exceptions most elite space queues are annoying to run. I mean why work for a 75k build just to be hindered by time gates. Other maps are that hard that 75k does not do you any good for as long as you don’t have 4 others in team doing it as well. Such teams don’t form up all the time so some 75k DPS dudes have to do something else with their time.
Worst problem is that cryptic holds an elite mode for the popular missions in this game back for over a year now. The availability of ISE and CCE would depressurize ISA and CCA quite a bit at this state.
In the end it all comes down to the feasibility of the queues. Last year at this time most maps were failing left and right. Now they slowly recover because single individuals finally step out of the save sailing within DPS channels and pug. By doing so they carry the dudes doing 5k helping them to earn their stuff and get better. In sum the maps run again and the average team in STO prevails. Thats all that matters.
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Often stfs last mere minutes because one or more player, even in advanced is putting out a bazillion DPS and everyone else is left fighting over scraps.
In fact one of the areas where it really shows the problem is that final fight in the Badlands Battle zone where you fight a whole fleet off. Most of the time if you're now BFAW-spamming and insta-killing everything within 10km you have not a hope in hell of getting any decent rewards for that fight. The top tier of damage output is just so many orders of magnitude above the average that most played are left wondering where they are going wrong.
Even in the recent MI I felt bad in my torp boat because I was nuking entire waves before other players could get locked on a single target. There's just no challenge anymore and having everyone playing in the same league is like having soapbox racers going up against F1 cars, it's just plain ridiculous.
The worst thing is though that if this trend keeps up eventually the devs will decide the game is too easy and hit with a DR style difficulty increase and then everyone looses bar the top 1%.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1208112/something-odd-happening-out-there-dps-and-damage-drop-inside
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And upgrading your ship to the max should be free? Or is there an arbitrary 'must be cheaper than X' limiter?
Take your time. Honestly, it sounds like you're just not ready for Advanced yet. And that's fine. When Delta Rising launched and I knew I had to catch up, I stayed away from Advanced and Elite for quite a while before I felt I had my ship and gameplay together right.
The game isn't made to let you jump into the higher levels before you're ready. And neither is the playerbase. If you're not making enough of a dent in the NPCs, or if you feel you're being carried in the queue, you need to take the time to build up to that level.
I'd love to see the Terrans deploy some suped up aceton assimilators that only torpedoes and BFAW can hit.
A FAW boat, parked, can nail all the spawn points in that last battle. That should really offend the "but DPS is skill!" people. I'd also think they'd be flying cannon boats as they take even more piloting skill, especially with FAW boats nuking everything before a pilot escort can even turn.
Agree whole-heartedly with this. I, for one, have never used a parser, nor have I looked at any 'pre-built' layout. I choose things that complement each other (Rep Sets etc) starting from the Energy weapon type. I don't pre-load all my abilities and weapons to one key, as that is sub-optimal for both DPS and tactics (and that's without knowing my DPS). I use the keyboard and touchpad, giving me instant access to all powers without having to move my mouse, hands or body. I don't use the auto-fire either (because personally, I think that's just too lazy, next to spacebar spam of course!). I've said it time and time again, DPS is no measure of skill as anyone can copy-paste someone's layout. The skill is in the choices and timings. Just because a monkey has a nuke, it doesn't mean he knows either how to use it nor use it effectively!
I've been noticing it more and more. While no one has the right to say "what you find fun is stupid and/or wrong," the DPS thing is becoming kind of a joke. People are in 50k DPS channels still saying "what [x] should I use." So, they get people to essentially make their builds for them. And, then, of course, saying "This game is too easy, give us a challenge." Then, very hard Elite queues "don't give decent rewards." There's so much hypocrisy and self contradiction there. If you can get rewards that are "too easy," why complain about rewards for "Give us more challenge"? If things are too easy, why are you using the absolute easiest method to play? Take off the BFAW TAC training wheels, maybe? Use non-optimal gear?
It's really largely Cryptic's fault for jacking up NPCs and making them HP sponges to sell powercreep, but the people who can't see past "moar dps" really have little about which to complain.
Well, the problem is, that when you're only doing 17k in a beast like the Astika, then the issue is not so much "Everyone is doing so much better than me," but more a matter of "I'm clearly not ready for Advanced queues yet." That is, in and by itself, an issue, separate from the power creep. There's no shame in admitting that. Pretty much like I know I'm not ready for HSE yet, for example, and wouldn't post saying "Everyone is doing 75k-120k, and I'm doing only 40k, so we need to nerf things!" In cases like that, there's no shame in just realizing those other team members are simply in a different league than yourself. My long-winded point being: being the weakest link in an Advanced/Elite is not itself evidence of the power creep. All that proves is that there are pilots significantly better than yourself out there.
Power creep is always a valid topic; but the OP is clearly suffering from a more pertinent issue regarding his own DPS.
You and I both know that 17k DPS is plenty for Advanced queues. Come on, now.
My opinion can be discounted, I do not chase DPS, I play for pure fun.
Here you are kinda contradicting yourself. Or, rather, DPS *is* a measure of skill because of the timings. Copy & Pasting someone'ds loadout, I assure you, has never improved my DPS one iota. :(Cuz I still suck as a pilot).
Enough to finish it, yes (if everyone is doing at least ca. 15k). But it the other team members are doing 30k+, then I can see how the OP feels he's getting the short end of the stick, with everyone around him stealing his thunder, as it were. That is primarily the feeling he was conveying, if I read him right.
Hi:
Step one:
Get your weapons to MkXIV. No need to go Ultra rare or gamble for epic. But Being MkXIV will markedly incease your damage.
Its a bit of a time investment but it will pay off.
Step two:
Make sure you have an EPS power transfer rate of at least 15/sec. Together with the astikas leech you should not dip below 110 weapon power. And have weapon power set to 100 base at any time.
Step three:
Attack pattern beta even in its smallest variant still gives a noticeable boon to damage done.
Step four:
Stop listening to people who say you should not use autofire.
Your DPS matters, because you will get into games with people who pull such low dps that a shuttle hangar pet armed with one phaser array outshines them.
Your usage of abilities that crowd control matters, because there will be palyers who will TRIBBLE things up.
YOU are part of an STF team, YOU should make sure YOU can carry a TRIBBLE team because at some point you will get a conga lien of horrible puggers and then YOU will be happy to be able to blow stuff apart in seconds.
Step five:
Listen to me talking how i put my jupiter at 22k dps with basically only upgrading 2 torps and running a hyperplasma/pep spam partgen build.
Then listen to the next guy in line who laughs at me for doing only 22k in sciency damage.
Then realize that 17k is basically like leaving the house for the first time. You did just step into the open world for the first time. Now is not the time to turn around and get back to the cellar. Start running. And if you see someone else run faster and farther: do not yell for him to be stopped. Instead observe and get faster yourself.
TL;DR:
Why should other people suffer for your refusal to work the game mechanics? DPs is not magic and there is no wizardry involved. Just like any other stat based game it is about knowing the tick and the tock. If you do not want to make the effort of learning then that is your choice and noone will be angry at you. Because we plan for that sort of team member and bring the best DPS we can.
Soo do not punish the DPSer for doing what he does, as he does not punish you for what you do.
While I'm certainly not anywhere near the highest DPS people in game, I'm probably one of those you describe since there have been numerous instances where my dmg alone is over 50% of total team dmg. (Just for the record, I'm a sci captain who has done 50k DPS (in ISA) without BFAW/KLW. So don't say that you can only do DPS with OP abilities. Although it's easier with those.)
And actually, I've lived under impression that mostly people are more positive towards me since they still get XP and I help them to complete the mission quicker, thus simplifying grind process and letting them earn their marks/dil/whatever quicker. Most of the times I've been very friendly towards other people in pugs, answered questions and offered help, if asked (yup, some have even done that). However, if someone really feels I've stolen their kills or interrupted their enjoyably slow grinding, I must apologize.
While 17k is not bad at all (although I don't know where you parsed it), then if you want to improve, DPS channels are full of helpful people, Youtube actually has helpful video guides, you can find good advice in Reddit. You can always PM/mail me, too, if you wish (handle is @tunebreaker, just like in forums).
P.S. Not sure why introducing elite versions of Borg STFs has taken so long.
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That has nothing to do with being "clearly not ready for Advanced queues yet." You know better.
So true. Remember when the 10% rule was needed to make it easy to take out the Transformers in ISA. Remember when people used to use Grav Well to hold back the Gate Spheres. All this and you only needed 8k to do Adv. Problem is now that people got so focused on vaping that 1 slip mean the spheres heal it, hence why I'm always the gate guard when I do ISA. I'm doing more good holding the back the Spheres as well as BFAW, and do I take notice of those who say concentrate on the big Transformer over CC, no. That's because I know, especially in a PuG, I'm the safety net and I'm covering their collective backsides!
Why, let me put it this way: if you were to put a 2nd Grader in 6th Grade, he/she would -- after the initial awe wears off -- soon start to feel miserable. For instance, I've flown with goddesses like bpharma a few times; and first there's awe, as it's cheer fun to see everything melt to ridiculously quickly.
Now, "clearly not ready for Advanced queues yet" may not be true in the absolute (as you can finish one if everyone does ca. 15k); but, like the OP said, when you constantly find yourself in Advanced queues with people doing at least double your DPS, then the de facto reality still is that you're clearly not ready for Advanced queues yet. STO doesn't force you to run lower queues, of course; but if you want to maximize fun, whether it be the OP or yours truly, then it's always wise to team up with queues/ppl that are about as good a pilot as yourself (at least for a the long run). Or don't, and start feel despondent over time; but know, and that really was my original point, that pilots being better than yourself has, in and by itself, nothing to do with power creep.
You can still CC while contributing to taking down the Transformer. That in my experience is the best way to do it as a CC-Sci boat. You can CC all you want but one slip up or if your CDs manage to get the better of you, you stand a bigger chance of failure because you did not help bring down the Transformer fast enough. I've tried both ways and I found that's the best way to reap success in ISA.
On the topic of DPS nerfing, that's probably not the best way to go. PUGs are getting better because of that same power-creep. Nerf that and you'll still have the upper 1% doing insane damage while the rest will still be contributing comparatively low.
What needs to be done is to create elite queues with proper rewards for their difficulty. Even the 75k+ guys play the queues for their rewards because believe it or not, some of them in the 75k range are still in the process of upgrading their gear or earning EC to get better gear. The time spent vs rewards has to be better in Elite than in Advanced to push some of these guys to that content.
Another reason why Elite content is relatively empty right now is that there aren't that many 75k+ players to start with and it can be difficult to form a group of them to properly do an Elite space queue. Heck it can be difficult to form even an ISA at times in the 75k channels. That's also why a lot of these folks still go to Advanced queues because at least those fill up quickly and reward them more for their time.
I'm sorry to hear you having difficulty trying to contribute to a run. I was in the same boat just a few months ago. A little practice and you could up your pace and be in the thick of things again. 17k is enough to contribute to the team, you just have to learn to position your ship better in the map to get into the action with minimal adjustments to your position.
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Well, you posted that someone was doing subpar damage (in your estimation) with their ship, then stated that they are "clearly not ready for Advanced queues yet." This infers nothing except that you feel they don't do enough damage for Advanced queues, which is, really, both incorrect and condescending. Not everyone does 50k+ DPS, nor is it required. I say this having done 14k DPS in a t1 BoP on a sci captain in ISA. If everyone did at least 15k DPS in Advanced queues, everything would be dandy. Easy, even. What you are saying to the OP (that he/she shouldn't be pug'ing the queues because of other people's DPS) should hold true to everyone, then. So people who do too much shouldn't do them, either? There's a lot of contradiction in your post- I kind of don't get it. Hopefully, it's unintended, as DPS folks already get a bad rap for those slagging on people for not doing max DPS.
And if you don't realize there's power creep, I'm not sure what I can tell you. When someone as bad a pilot as me can do 50k+ DPS with a sci captain, using a build that's far from optimal, it's real. Seriously.
The point of mission is to destroy everything, correct? And for destroying things, you need damage. If you have perfect tanking/healing/CC team, but does no damage, you can do your magic til the end of the world without failing, but you won't manage to complete the mission.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
Things like this are not helpful.
That's the point I'm getting at too.
I tried parsing for a bit a while ago, just to see how specific aspects of my build were performing. But when the DPS Channel split happened and the control of the parsers kinda went haywire, I stopped. That said, I can still make adjustments on my build based on look-and-feel. If I use an ability or shift some power and stats bonuses around, I can usually see the difference in how quickly something like a Borg Sphere melts.
For example, I'm gearing up two new toons for the end-game without even touching a parser, and trying for a much different playstyle than I ever have before. All I'm doing is reading the descriptions of the abilities, consoles, etc, and then choosing different pieces of gear and abilities to complement those things. Early on, one of those toons - a science captain with a part gen build - I tried in Conduit Adv. for a look-and-feel run. And there happened to be another player in there who ran a parser, and shared the log. And apparently I hit almost 20k, while doing the 'trap the Nanites at the gate' thing
But my point is, you don't need to be a parsing min-maxer to compete in Advanced. If, by the look-and-feel test, one either sees that they're doing relatively insignificant damage to the NPCs, or they feel they're being carried by the rest of the team, that should be a self-limiting sign to adjust things and come back later with a new approach. It's not that the others need their gear nerfed, it's that a player who fails their own look-and-feel test needs to take the time to gear up, learn up, and work up to the next level of play.