Idea: Buying Dilithium with EC

jaffastargate

Here is My idea. Buying Dilithium With EC or selling Dilithium For EC. or in general.. making Dilithium Tradable. I seriously Would not mind Buying like a Million Dilithium for a Billion EC. it Could make The game more interesting if you could Trade Dilithium, GPL and such. and i mean Directly trade 1 person to another.. or something like the dill exchange for zen... just for EC.

davefenestrator

> or selling Dilithium For EC

You can do this indirectly now: buy zen, buy lock box key, sell key for 4-5 million EC.

bioixi

I think all currency should be tradeable, dilithium ore and refined, zen, GPL and energy credits in exchange for any other currency/item.

sheldonlcooper

I would be overjoyed to trade a million dilithium for a billion ec. currently the exchange is a little less than 200 million ec for a million dilithium via keys - which while more than it used to be frankly is still a joke.

But this will never happen.

jaffastargate

yeah i know. personally.. i hope it does come some day... would be Really interesting Trading stuff for diff Currencies. and making the game much more flexible when it comes to trading. and i'd enjoy trading in diff currencies. and for example on the Exchange.. if they make it Like you could literary ask if you want ec or gpl or something.. you could put something on exchange and ask for idk.. 5 million GPL instead of 5 million ec... such stuff.

tacticalrook

This happened already. Things went cray.

jaffastargate

This Discussion? or the Actual thing?

tacticalrook

The actual thing.

jaffastargate

you could of traded EC for Dil and such? O.O

tacticalrook

Unreplicatable Materials.

jaffastargate

that's not it. They were bought with Dil.. you couldnt turn them back.. you could sell em however. They were Dil->Ec and not Dil<->EC

tacticalrook

Patch notes were released that said they were being retired and could be turned back in for the original dil purchase price. People produced them in massive amounts and traded to other players for EC like crazy before the patch hit.

When the dust settled, they were changed to be bind to character on pickup and the exchange rate was around 1k EC per dil.

jaffastargate

yea.. but you couldnt at the time you could buy them.. you couldn't sell em then. that is my Point.

bobbydazlers

you can still indirectly trade dil for EC - buy zen for dil, buy keys with zen, trade keys for EC.
there is no way to buy dil with EC directly or indirectly, and personally I think it would be very dangerous for the game if you could.

zen and dil are so closely tied to $$$ that cryptic could loose a lot of $$$ if you could trade EC for dil and players who trade dil for zen could also loose out.
no need to buy dil with zen bought with $$$ if you can easily or even indirectly buy dil with EC.

jaffastargate

i know. that is what I am suggesting to be Changed.

bobbydazlers

I think cryptic can see the danger of trading EC for dil as I have pointed out above (unlike those in favour of this), that's why it will never happen.

yukonsam

The primary point of dilithium is to have a currency that can be earned in game (at a strictly-controlled rate) that non-paying customers can exchange for zen to use in the cash shop. Making dilithium freely exchangeable for EC, which isn't regulated in the same way, would wreck merry hell not only with the in-game economy, but possibly the real-world revenue stream that keeps the game afloat.

Never say never... but I wouldn't hold my breath.

bobbydazlers

yukonsam wrote: »

The primary point of dilithium is to have a currency that can be earned in game (at a strictly-controlled rate) that non-paying customers can exchange for zen to use in the cash shop. Making dilithium freely exchangeable for EC, which isn't regulated in the same way, would wreck merry hell not only with the in-game economy, but possibly the real-world revenue stream that keeps the game afloat.

Never say never... but I wouldn't hold my breath.

another poster who can see the danger, unlike you though I have no qualms in saying it will never happen, cryptic are too wise to the pitfalls.

johnwatson71

being able to trade EC (which there is too much of right now in game as is) for dil (or vice versa) would absolutely destroy income for cryptic. EC is so easy to get in mass quantities. If everyone could do that, then no one would actually need to buy zen with real money. Because they amass EC, trade for dil and then sell for amounts of zen you could really only get with $$$.

Yes you can get zen by trading dil, but how much you can get heavily depends on the exchange rates & if you have the amount of dil. The regulation of dil you can acquire (daily refine) helps make it so people aren't getting huse amounts of zen through dil trade left and right. So buying zen with real cash is still the easiest and most efficient way to obtain it, which means $$$ for cryptic. As a method to avoiding painful grinds/farming, spending $$$ for zen is still the most appealing option for players would want high priced zen items.

If the real money method became obsolete, no one would do it. Which means cryptic wouldn't make money, which means the game would eventually be shut down due to lack of funding. Or worse, revert back to subscription only with AT LEAST a $20-$30 a month sub price.

I too thought trading dil/EC back and forth was a good idea once upon a time until I realized that would mean no one would spend actual money anymore and thus the game would die.

As much as we all complain sometimes, this game depends on the money we pour into it. So unless we want this game to go back to being sub only (an option not very appealing in today's real world economy), its best that EC and Dil NOT be inter-tradable.

jarvisandalfred

jaffastargate wrote: »

Here is My idea. Buying Dilithium With EC or selling Dilithium For EC. or in general.. making Dilithium Tradable. I seriously Would not mind Buying like a Million Dilithium for a Billion EC. it Could make The game more interesting if you could Trade Dilithium, GPL and such. and i mean Directly trade 1 person to another.. or something like the dill exchange for zen... just for EC.

So, like EC->Contra->Dil?

glassguitar

You can buy contraband on the exchange, turn in 5 for 2K Dilithium. 2 hour cooldown on project means you can easily hit max refine limit every day. End result is 45K average price for contraband means you are paying less than 250K per 2K dilihtium ore. Problem solved.

bobbydazlers

also once what little zen that's left in the game has been spent in the c-store nobody would be able to buy it any more with dilithium as the only time somebody would actually buy zen is if they actually wanted to buy a c-store item themselves, not very good for the FTPers who want to trade their dil for zen so they can buy a c-store item themselves.

glassguitar wrote: »

You can buy contraband on the exchange, turn in 5 for 2K Dilithium. 2 hour cooldown on project means you can easily hit max refine limit every day. End result is 45K average price for contraband means you are paying less than 250K per 2K dilihtium ore. Problem solved.

true this can be done but its too time consuming and full of hassle for cryptic to loose any sleep over it, especially once sellers realised that many players were doing it and the EC price of contraband went through the roof.

1 contraband for 10m EC, any takers? anybody? anybody?

bioixi

johnwatson71 wrote: »

being able to trade EC (which there is too much of right now in game as is) for dil (or vice versa) would absolutely destroy income for cryptic. EC is so easy to get in mass quantities. If everyone could do that, then no one would actually need to buy zen with real money. Because they amass EC, trade for dil and then sell for amounts of zen you could really only get with $$$.

Yes you can get zen by trading dil, but how much you can get heavily depends on the exchange rates & if you have the amount of dil. The regulation of dil you can acquire (daily refine) helps make it so people aren't getting huse amounts of zen through dil trade left and right. So buying zen with real cash is still the easiest and most efficient way to obtain it, which means $$$ for cryptic. As a method to avoiding painful grinds/farming, spending $$$ for zen is still the most appealing option for players would want high priced zen items.

If the real money method became obsolete, no one would do it. Which means cryptic wouldn't make money, which means the game would eventually be shut down due to lack of funding. Or worse, revert back to subscription only with AT LEAST a $20-$30 a month sub price.

I too thought trading dil/EC back and forth was a good idea once upon a time until I realized that would mean no one would spend actual money anymore and thus the game would die.

As much as we all complain sometimes, this game depends on the money we pour into it. So unless we want this game to go back to being sub only (an option not very appealing in today's real world economy), its best that EC and Dil NOT be inter-tradable.

Zen does not magically pop up, all the zen you see in the exchange is zen someone else bought with real money, if anything, being able to freely exchange EC/zen/dil/GPL would only increase the amount of Zen purchased, which is good for cryptic.

bobbydazlers

bioixi wrote: »

johnwatson71 wrote: »

being able to trade EC (which there is too much of right now in game as is) for dil (or vice versa) would absolutely destroy income for cryptic. EC is so easy to get in mass quantities. If everyone could do that, then no one would actually need to buy zen with real money. Because they amass EC, trade for dil and then sell for amounts of zen you could really only get with $$$.

Yes you can get zen by trading dil, but how much you can get heavily depends on the exchange rates & if you have the amount of dil. The regulation of dil you can acquire (daily refine) helps make it so people aren't getting huse amounts of zen through dil trade left and right. So buying zen with real cash is still the easiest and most efficient way to obtain it, which means $$$ for cryptic. As a method to avoiding painful grinds/farming, spending $$$ for zen is still the most appealing option for players would want high priced zen items.

If the real money method became obsolete, no one would do it. Which means cryptic wouldn't make money, which means the game would eventually be shut down due to lack of funding. Or worse, revert back to subscription only with AT LEAST a $20-$30 a month sub price.

I too thought trading dil/EC back and forth was a good idea once upon a time until I realized that would mean no one would spend actual money anymore and thus the game would die.

As much as we all complain sometimes, this game depends on the money we pour into it. So unless we want this game to go back to being sub only (an option not very appealing in today's real world economy), its best that EC and Dil NOT be inter-tradable.

Zen does not magically pop up, all the zen you see in the exchange is zen someone else bought with real money, if anything, being able to freely exchange EC/zen/dil/GPL would only increase the amount of Zen purchased, which is good for cryptic.

why buy any in game currency with zen when you can just as easily buy it with another cost free in game currency and would only decrease the amount of Zen purchased , which is bad for cryptic.

its no good acting like an emu, burying your head in the sand and pretending it would not vastly reduce zen purchases when it plainly would.

johnwatson71

bioixi wrote: »

johnwatson71 wrote: »

being able to trade EC (which there is too much of right now in game as is) for dil (or vice versa) would absolutely destroy income for cryptic. EC is so easy to get in mass quantities. If everyone could do that, then no one would actually need to buy zen with real money. Because they amass EC, trade for dil and then sell for amounts of zen you could really only get with $$$.

Yes you can get zen by trading dil, but how much you can get heavily depends on the exchange rates & if you have the amount of dil. The regulation of dil you can acquire (daily refine) helps make it so people aren't getting huse amounts of zen through dil trade left and right. So buying zen with real cash is still the easiest and most efficient way to obtain it, which means $$$ for cryptic. As a method to avoiding painful grinds/farming, spending $$$ for zen is still the most appealing option for players would want high priced zen items.

If the real money method became obsolete, no one would do it. Which means cryptic wouldn't make money, which means the game would eventually be shut down due to lack of funding. Or worse, revert back to subscription only with AT LEAST a $20-$30 a month sub price.

I too thought trading dil/EC back and forth was a good idea once upon a time until I realized that would mean no one would spend actual money anymore and thus the game would die.

As much as we all complain sometimes, this game depends on the money we pour into it. So unless we want this game to go back to being sub only (an option not very appealing in today's real world economy), its best that EC and Dil NOT be inter-tradable.

Zen does not magically pop up, all the zen you see in the exchange is zen someone else bought with real money, if anything, being able to freely exchange EC/zen/dil/GPL would only increase the amount of Zen purchased, which is good for cryptic.

Which would be the case if Zen were not the most desirable/valuable game currency, which it is, which makes spending real $$$ the most efficient and desirable method of obtaining it, which is what Cryptic needs. As a F2P game, they need spending $$$ for Zen to be the most appealing (i.e. easy and fast) option. Plus, we don't need more EC in the game. There is already way too much as evidenced by the ridiculous inflation we are seeing in game now. Being able to trade dil for EC would only make the inflation worse and collapse the in-game economy.

And giving people more ways to obtain Zen without paying real money is bad for Cryptic in every way, as well as for the people that supply it for the exchange as the amount of people supplying it would greatly reduce due to players being able to obtain zen with too much ease via the EC/Dil trade. Which is again, bad.

And because there would be less suppliers of Zen to the exchange, the rates would SKYROCKET as a result which means less people would choose to get it from the exchange.

With a F2P game, one of the worst things that will hurt the game is giving people more free ways to obtain the buy-able ($$$) currency. The game and Crytpic would suffer as a result.

In order to get zen in this game without spending money, you have grind and farm. And A LOT to make a worthy zen profit. Grinding/farming especially the chinese mmo style of it, which this game is, is something no one likes. MMO companies KNOW this, which makes spending real $$$ appealing, thus making the company money and keeping the game running.

To remove or greatly reduce the need to spend real like $$$ in a F2P game, is to basically sign the game's expiration certificate.

cidjack

If I could get dil directly from EC I would never need to buy zen again.

monkeybone13

Edit: How about "no"?

xyquarze

There's two theoretical ways of exchanging EC into dil

1) An automatic trade - give 500 ec into 1 dil or whatever rate you think is useful. This will never happen for two reasons. One is that the way of grinding ec is not limited unlike dil (unless you're talking unrefined), so any system that would make sense would limit your daily ec income or wouldn't work. The other being - and even if you're talking unrefined - that it would severely impact the whole economy. Dil would probably be distributed so that everybody would increase their refinement to 8k, even those who aren't doing that now, vastly increasing the amount of refined dil, changing the economy. The other would be that every change in items, or rewards, or drops, would have an influx on dil, thus being dangerously close to doing the same thing.

2) An exchange dil for ec like the zen-dil exchange. While I wouldn't rule that one out entirely, I am quite certain that it wouldn't be in Cryptic's wish list. First, all of the above apply, the whole economy is affected. Second, it would mean that you can not only get zen via dil, a commodity which you will have a limited amount of acquiring, but also through a venue which knows no theoretical limits. So game time will gather all the resources with the guys who spend most of the time, F2P would no longer be an option if you took your time, so simlilarily to (1) you'd need to limit ec earnings.

It IS true however, that any zen stems from people who paid real world dollars (euros, yens, ...) for it under (2). So any xchange wouldn't hurt Cryptic directly, they still got their money. BUT they would severely limit the amount of players who could buy zen, thus limiting the options of a vast fraction of the player base. And that would be quite detrimental to their income and, following from that, to the continuation of STO.

bioixi

bobbydazlers wrote: »

bioixi wrote: »

johnwatson71 wrote: »

being able to trade EC (which there is too much of right now in game as is) for dil (or vice versa) would absolutely destroy income for cryptic. EC is so easy to get in mass quantities. If everyone could do that, then no one would actually need to buy zen with real money. Because they amass EC, trade for dil and then sell for amounts of zen you could really only get with $$$.

Yes you can get zen by trading dil, but how much you can get heavily depends on the exchange rates & if you have the amount of dil. The regulation of dil you can acquire (daily refine) helps make it so people aren't getting huse amounts of zen through dil trade left and right. So buying zen with real cash is still the easiest and most efficient way to obtain it, which means $$$ for cryptic. As a method to avoiding painful grinds/farming, spending $$$ for zen is still the most appealing option for players would want high priced zen items.

If the real money method became obsolete, no one would do it. Which means cryptic wouldn't make money, which means the game would eventually be shut down due to lack of funding. Or worse, revert back to subscription only with AT LEAST a $20-$30 a month sub price.

I too thought trading dil/EC back and forth was a good idea once upon a time until I realized that would mean no one would spend actual money anymore and thus the game would die.

As much as we all complain sometimes, this game depends on the money we pour into it. So unless we want this game to go back to being sub only (an option not very appealing in today's real world economy), its best that EC and Dil NOT be inter-tradable.

Zen does not magically pop up, all the zen you see in the exchange is zen someone else bought with real money, if anything, being able to freely exchange EC/zen/dil/GPL would only increase the amount of Zen purchased, which is good for cryptic.

why buy any in game currency with zen when you can just as easily buy it with another cost free in game currency and would only decrease the amount of Zen purchased , which is bad for cryptic.

its no good acting like an emu, burying your head in the sand and pretending it would not vastly reduce zen purchases when it plainly would.

i think you didn't get it.

It would not decrease zen's value or the amount of zen purchased, the zen store is still restricted to zen, any single zen in game comes from real money.

Right now you can exchange zen for items and sell those items, or you can exchange EC for contraband to turn it into dilithium and then turn that dilithium into zen, at the current rate 1zen=230 dilithium=45k EC.

How on Earth would being allowed to do a direct trade reduce the amount of zen purchased?

Again, zen does not magically pop up, every single zen in-game comes from real world money transactions.

If anything, if you could directly buy dilithium with EC it would only devaluate dilithium as a currency, which means more dilithium per zen, now zen becomes more valuable, you can get more energy credits and dilithium per zen, so sales increase.

monkeybone13

bioixi wrote: »

bobbydazlers wrote: »

bioixi wrote: »

johnwatson71 wrote: »

being able to trade EC (which there is too much of right now in game as is) for dil (or vice versa) would absolutely destroy income for cryptic. EC is so easy to get in mass quantities. If everyone could do that, then no one would actually need to buy zen with real money. Because they amass EC, trade for dil and then sell for amounts of zen you could really only get with $$$.

Yes you can get zen by trading dil, but how much you can get heavily depends on the exchange rates & if you have the amount of dil. The regulation of dil you can acquire (daily refine) helps make it so people aren't getting huse amounts of zen through dil trade left and right. So buying zen with real cash is still the easiest and most efficient way to obtain it, which means $$$ for cryptic. As a method to avoiding painful grinds/farming, spending $$$ for zen is still the most appealing option for players would want high priced zen items.

If the real money method became obsolete, no one would do it. Which means cryptic wouldn't make money, which means the game would eventually be shut down due to lack of funding. Or worse, revert back to subscription only with AT LEAST a $20-$30 a month sub price.

I too thought trading dil/EC back and forth was a good idea once upon a time until I realized that would mean no one would spend actual money anymore and thus the game would die.

As much as we all complain sometimes, this game depends on the money we pour into it. So unless we want this game to go back to being sub only (an option not very appealing in today's real world economy), its best that EC and Dil NOT be inter-tradable.

Zen does not magically pop up, all the zen you see in the exchange is zen someone else bought with real money, if anything, being able to freely exchange EC/zen/dil/GPL would only increase the amount of Zen purchased, which is good for cryptic.

why buy any in game currency with zen when you can just as easily buy it with another cost free in game currency and would only decrease the amount of Zen purchased , which is bad for cryptic.

its no good acting like an emu, burying your head in the sand and pretending it would not vastly reduce zen purchases when it plainly would.

i think you didn't get it.

It would not decrease zen's value or the amount of zen purchased, the zen store is still restricted to zen, any single zen in game comes from real money.

Right now you can exchange zen for items and sell those items, or you can exchange EC for contraband to turn it into dilithium and then turn that dilithium into zen, at the current rate 1zen=230 dilithium=45k EC.

How on Earth would being allowed to do a direct trade reduce the amount of zen purchased?

Again, zen does not magically pop up, every single zen in-game comes from real world money transactions.

If anything, if you could directly buy dilithium with EC it would only devaluate dilithium as a currency, which means more dilithium per zen, now zen becomes more valuable, you can get more energy credits and dilithium per zen, so sales increase.

Double check the price of zen. It was 235 dil per zen when I logged in today. Judging by the fact there is over 100k zen priced at 240 dil each, I expect it to hit 240 in the next day or so.

And to answer your question: yes it would lower the amount of zen people buy with real money. If people could trade dil straight for ec there would be less players trading dil for zen. A lot of players trade dil for zen to get items they can sell for ec such as keys and fleet ship modules.

And the less zen people buy for real money, the less money the developers have to develop stuff and keep the servers running.

mrsmitty81

Maybe make Rich dilithium mining tokens available to buy with EC. That would be a way for people to spend their ec and it would only slightly increase the amount of dilithium on the market as you can only use one once a day.